WoT Season 2 Episode 4: Daughter of the Night

[notpropaganda73]

So you would rather see Nynaeve wander out of the Tower to the Waygate with two Novices and that's more realistic within the world of WoT to you than Darkfriends conspiring to load bodies onto a wagon at night time. 

 

Ok. 

 

 

[Mailman]

1 minute ago, notpropaganda73 said:

So you would rather see Nynaeve wander out of the Tower to the Waygate with two Novices and that's more realistic within the world of WoT to you than Darkfriends conspiring to load bodies onto a wagon at night time. 

 

Ok. 

 

 

Are you serious you think 3 woman leaving the tower on foot is more suspicious than three bodies being loaded onto a wagon or a horse.

[notpropaganda73]

Not three women, an Accepted and two Novices.

 

Yes, within the world of WoT, I think having the three most powerful channellers seen in the White Tower for generations wander out of the Tower (two of whom aren't allowed to leave the Tower Grounds) without Aes Sedai being aware of that on some level is very very sus, vs. the three of them being knocked out at a secret entrance/exit by a high-ranking Black Ajah and that Aes Sedai utilising the Darkfriend network to smuggle them out. Again, likely at night time. How many people would have to be involved? One DF Tower Guard, one or two other DFs to move the girls and have the wagon ready. Maybe not even DFs, just some Compulsion which was mentioned numerous times this season. Jeez, what a pickle for Liandrin to figure out. Plus the fact she wasn't accounting for Elayne showing up, so this was unlikely to ever originally be the plan. The theoretical wagon may have already been sitting there waiting to transport Nynaeve and Egwene, awake, and Elayne showing up meant Liandrin had to improvise. Do I care? Not even in the slightest, the girls are in Falme, where they are supposed to be at this point of the story. I'm more interested in character dynamics and story, not in being shown details that are irrelevant to the overall plot.

 

Like what do you even want to see instead? Nynaeve walking to the Waygate to meet Liandrin there, with Egwene, and Elayne following them? And Liandrin knocks them out at that point? But how did they get to the Waygate without being seen? How were two Novices able to sneak all the way out there? It seems a little unrealistic to me. Wouldn't there be eyes on Egwene at all times considering her power and the fact she's a novice? Wouldn't there be eyes on the literal Daughter-Heir of Andor and her movements being monitored if she gets anywhere near leaving the Tower? 

 

I don't understand your obsession over this, criticise the show for actual legit reasons. This stuff is irrelevant (and I'm annoyed at myself for spending so long arguing about it)

[A Memory Of Why]

1 hour ago, Mailman said:

Yes the novices roaming the tower has been an irritant, not as much however as them being able to gain access to the room housing the 3 arches Ter'angreal easily was though. Having a camp out down there was just insane.

 

My problem is its a shit plan. Anyone seeing 3 bodies loaded into a wagon is going to question WTF is going on. There is always a chance of being lucky and not being seen but it's a big chance to take. Why not have Nynaeve who you have built up a trust with simply meet you at the waygate.

 

Lol!

 

You're really trying to push the feather up the mountain with this aren't you? 😅

 

As I stated the episode gave us enough info to show the Shadow works in mysterious "ways".

 

Seriously, where did this wagon come from you mentioned? 

 

You're obviously biased argument is filling in the blanks to suit your negative narative dude.

 

Ok, how about this..

 

Liandrin put the unconscious, shielded girls in a "wagon", used masks of mirrors (covered them with a blanket) and had a darkfriend who is terrified of Ishy to help get them out of the city..?

 

Again, why should the show waste more time explaining this?

Edited September 21, 2023 by A Memory Of Why

[HeavyHalfMoonBlade]

Well you guys are having such fun going over this, I'm surprised the show's writers could resist. They could have made a whole series just about the kidnapping. It would have been awesome. Think of the suspense! The excitement! The unconscious young women!

[DaddyFinn]

Stepin took about 25min of total screentime in S1. This "hauling the girls from Tower to Waygate" could have easily been 5-10 minutes and it wouldn't have mattered one bit. No thanks

Edited September 21, 2023 by DaddyFinn

[A Memory Of Why]

1 hour ago, HeavyHalfMoonBlade said:

Well you guys are having such fun going over this, I'm surprised the show's writers could resist. They could have made a whole series just about the kidnapping. It would have been awesome. Think of the suspense! The excitement! The unconscious young women!

 

Yeah dude, a multi-million dollar spin off filled with innuendos and an absurd amount of spankings, laughter and tears 🙃

[Mailman]

Well i'm done with this conversation.

For everyones benefit i was asked by a poster why it would be difficult to move the girls from the Tower to Falme. I responded with legitimate things that could cause issues and have been since constantly attacked for wanting to waste time the show is lacking. 

 

 

[Elder_Haman]

4 hours ago, Mailman said:

5 hours ago, notpropaganda73 said:

 

It does not have to be step by step but if you cant see an issue with transporting 3 unconscious students through the inside of the tower into the stables and then to the waygate you are not taking the practicalities of the world seriously.

A carriage is waiting where the secret passageway exits. One or two dark friends help load the girls in. The carriage leaves Tar Valon where Liandrin meets it later. 
 

Easy peasy, lemon squeezie. Or do we still need to talk bathroom logistics?
 

 

[Scarloc99]

3 hours ago, Mailman said:

Yes the novices roaming the tower has been an irritant, not as much however as them being able to gain access to the room housing the 3 arches Ter'angreal easily was though. Having a camp out down there was just insane.

 

My problem is its a shit plan. Anyone seeing 3 bodies loaded into a wagon is going to question WTF is going on. There is always a chance of being lucky and not being seen but it's a big chance to take. Why not have Nynaeve who you have built up a trust with simply meet you at the waygate.

Why are they? 3 bodies covered in tarpaulin, hidden from view, am aes sedai leading the cart, which is driven by a darkfriend, telling anyone who asks she is really looking forward to collecting white asparagus from the farm she is visiting. Aes Sedai are not questioned by anyone that is not Aes Sedai, and a red Aes Sedai even more so if the guard is a man. You claim to be a lover of the books and yet you are ignoring some basic facts that have been shown in the TV show and we all know from the books. An Aes Seai can't lie. So Liandrin saying clearly, this cart is empty there is nothing you need to see in here will not be questioned. 

But also, Nynaeve followed Liandrin through one set of tunnels, who is to say there is not another tunnel that leads somewhere else? But really, it doesn't matter, for someone who didn't like Steppin you seem determined that the show runners should have wasted TV time on showing something that is just a standard TV trope, we have seen in many many many tv shows people getting kidnapped and hidden in carts etc, we don't ned to see it yet again because it isn't special, it isn't "magic". If something unique had happened in getting the girls into the ways then it would warrant a bit of TV time, showing a compulsion weave for instance, but in the absence of any screen time just accept the simplest explanation, she hid them in a cart and got them out of the city. 

Now, I do think that discovering the note in the book about them leaving indicates that Liandrin had help, and it makes sense that right now the writers don't want to show who helped her. Logistically there was no time for her to move the girls, run upstairs, change the entry and then come back down and escape. So I think there will be a reveal of at least 1 other aes sedai who was there, in the tunnels with her who then went and handeled the book. Maybe Sheriam herself. 

 

[Elder_Haman]

16 minutes ago, Mailman said:

For everyones benefit i was asked by a poster why it would be difficult to move the girls from the Tower to Falme

I asked you why it was difficult to believe that it could be accomplished given magic and Liandrin’s connection to the Black. Not for a laundry list of possible problems. 

I’m genuinely sorry that you feel attacked. That was not my intent. I’m home sick with COVID and I had no Wi-Fi for three days, so my patience has been on a ragged edge. 

[Scarloc99]

2 hours ago, HeavyHalfMoonBlade said:

Well you guys are having such fun going over this, I'm surprised the show's writers could resist. They could have made a whole series just about the kidnapping. It would have been awesome. Think of the suspense! The excitement! The unconscious young women!

I really am looking forward to the 2nd 3rd and 4th times the girls get kidnaped (assuming Rafe sticks to that constant theme fro the books)., I hope the trend of "how did the girls get fro A to B" being kept secret is a running theme in the series, I doubt the internet would have anything to debate if it wasn't for this. 🙂 

[Scarloc99]

10 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

Or do we still need to talk bathroom logistics?
 

 

I mean that is something no TV show or book thinks about when someone is tied up for days on end lol, unless said bathroom break is an opportunity for escape. No one wants to think about the mess in the basement, back of the van, shipping container lol. 

[DaddyFinn]

7 minutes ago, Scarloc99 said:

I really am looking forward to the 2nd 3rd and 4th times the girls get kidnaped (assuming Rafe sticks to that constant theme fro the books)., I hope the trend of "how did the girls get fro A to B" being kept secret is a running theme in the series, I doubt the internet would have anything to debate if it wasn't for this. 🙂 

Girls got a power-up after each kidnapping though.

 

5 minutes ago, Scarloc99 said:

I mean that is something no TV show or book thinks about when someone is tied up for days on end lol, unless said bathroom break is an opportunity for escape. No one wants to think about the mess in the basement, back of the van, shipping container lol. 

Aes Sedai could use the OP to dispose of waste in a clean and easy way. I for one don't want to see that depicted even if it was realistic

[HeavyHalfMoonBlade]

4 minutes ago, Scarloc99 said:

I mean that is something no TV show or book thinks about when someone is tied up for days on end lol, unless said bathroom break is an opportunity for escape. No one wants to think about the mess in the basement, back of the van, shipping container lol. 

Not quite no book, we are often treated to the description of their bucket and prisoners generally get a bit of exercise or such. Or we get a nice graphic (to some degree) description of the smell, like Rand's box. Thankfully I have never come across a description of the bucket being used, just not needed, imho.

[SinisterDeath]

27 minutes ago, Scarloc99 said:

Now, I do think that discovering the note in the book about them leaving indicates that Liandrin had help, and it makes sense that right now the writers don't want to show who helped her. Logistically there was no time for her to move the girls, run upstairs, change the entry and then come back down and escape. So I think there will be a reveal of at least 1 other aes sedai who was there, in the tunnels with her who then went and handeled the book. Maybe Sheriam herself. 

This.

 

Detective Verin doesn't need to spend a lot of screen time on the ferreting out the details of how Liandrin got the girls out. She can "talk" to a Aes Sedai while paying more attention to the people in the background doing suspicious things.

 

She could then use the other Brown Sister to exposition dump the conspiracy of how it was done to the audience (without an re-enactment).
We think we know compulsion was used, so there's no reason to think Liandrin and company couldn't have used it on guards to get the girls through the tower grounds, and that can all be said in a couple of lines.

Liandrin had an accomplice. She used Compulsion on a warder or two (remember the one talking to Nynaeve earlier?) to get the girls out of the tower and onto horses. Compulsion to get the out of the tower and to the ways.

Her accomplice used Compulsion on Sheriam, not knowing Sheriam is also BA... and I'm going to bet that we'll see that reveal at the end of the season...

[Scarloc99]

2 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

This.

 

Detective Verin doesn't need to spend a lot of screen time on the ferreting out the details of how Liandrin got the girls out. She can "talk" to a Aes Sedai while paying more attention to the people in the background doing suspicious things.

 

She could then use the other Brown Sister to exposition dump the conspiracy of how it was done to the audience (without an re-enactment).
We think we know compulsion was used, so there's no reason to think Liandrin and company couldn't have used it on guards to get the girls through the tower grounds, and that can all be said in a couple of lines.

Liandrin had an accomplice. She used Compulsion on a warder or two (remember the one talking to Nynaeve earlier?) to get the girls out of the tower and onto horses. Compulsion to get the out of the tower and to the ways.

Her accomplice used Compulsion on Sheriam, not knowing Sheriam is also BA... and I'm going to bet that we'll see that reveal at the end of the season...

Poor Sheriam, I have a feeling she will be on the end of black ajah plot after black ajah plot, if for no reason then it makes sense to maintain her very important cover. In the books she seemed to know pretty much all the black ajah sisters, largely because she had recruited them as misstress of the novices, so I can see her actually telling whoever it is that tells her the books needs updating to compel her to do it so she has true plausible deniability. In the books she really bit off more then she could chew remember 😉. 

[king of nowhere]

7 hours ago, Mailman said:

My problem is its a shit plan. Anyone seeing 3 bodies loaded into a wagon is going to question WTF is going on.

nope. they are aes sedai. NOBODY is going to question aes sedai, period. especially not in tar valon.

anyway, in the books themselves elaida had the king of illian kidnapped, and he was brought to the docks rolled inside a carpet. nobody questions the logistics of that about the books. if aes sedai can "disappear" a king from a hostile nation, would they have a problem with three girls?

[HeavyHalfMoonBlade]

Not wanting to be disrespectful to the zombie-queen-horse, Bela, I think this deceased equine has had enough punishment.

 

Seriously, some people thought it was a bit of jump, some people think who cares. Can we stop now?

Edited September 21, 2023 by HeavyHalfMoonBlade

[bringbackthomsmoustache]

12 hours ago, HeavyHalfMoonBlade said:

12 hours ago, Scarloc99 said:

I mean that is something no TV show or book thinks about when someone is tied up for days on end lol, unless said bathroom break is an opportunity for escape. No one wants to think about the mess in the basement, back of the van, shipping container lol. 

Not quite no book, we are often treated to the description of their bucket and prisoners generally get a bit of exercise or such. Or we get a nice graphic (to some degree) description of the smell, like Rand's box. Thankfully I have never come across a description of the bucket being used, just not needed, imho.

GOT did treat us to Tyrion and Varys complaining to each other about having to dispose of Tyrion's shit while he was locked in his box.