book spoilers Can the 3 arches scenes be removed? I would argue yes.

[Scarloc99]

In the book forum I posted the sense I get that, or all the major events to happen to the main characters throughout the books, the 3 arches experience  of Nyn and Egwene has no long term character impact 

 

The scenes themselves are told well, and they include some minor foreshadowing. But neither character is significantly changed by the event, neither character has a moment later on where there experience here “pays off”, either in a choice they make, or an action they succeed in. 
 

The scenes post more questions than answers and these questions are never followed up. 
 

Yes you can argue as a world building exercise they add something, we get to experience what becoming accepted involves. But in terms of character development the only thing that happens is the girls become accepted. 
 

So with that in mind, I will not be disappointed if they remove those scenes from the TV series. It is never good to have questions left that can never be paid off, or to have scenes shown that never then feed into a future action. So you would have scenes that will take time and budget to film and then never pay anything off. They do not impact the last battle other than being a test, a first step on the journey for the female leads. So many bigger things shape them later. 
 

Especially when you compare this with Avi’s equivalent journey which we don’t see but drastically impacts her character and changes her. 
 

So thoughts are the silver arches scenes an absolute must for you? 

Edited February 26, 2023 by Sir_Charrid

[king of nowhere]

no, they are not. more important scenes have already been cut.

but they would make for good, cinematic scenes, so they may be included for that reason

[Scarloc99]

So the follow up do we remove this entirely from the lore of becoming accepted in the tv show? Or is it simply done off screen and we only see the aftermath? 

[ForsakenPotato]

I think there will still be a ceremony to go from novice to accepted shown onscreen. Pretty sure novices were already shown last season and nothing says "magic school" like some obscure, mostly irrelevant, and irresponsibly dangerous rite of passage...people eat that stuff up! And the show has not shied away from various ceremonies so far, we've already seen funeral rites, the women's circle induction, the oath rod, etc.

 

But, I agree that it's not really important for their characters in the long run, so I think it will be abridged, and maybe less naked, and maybe changed in other ways as well. One arch? Or something completely different...which I'm sure book fans everywhere will love and embrace . Whatever theme they have for the episode(s) in which the test occurs, they can just adjust the test to fit.

[king of nowhere]

1 hour ago, ForsakenPotato said:

And the show has not shied away from various ceremonies so far, we've already seen funeral rites, the women's circle induction, the oath rod, etc.

 

oh, right. if they found the screen time for pushing egwene down a cliff, they should totally find it for the arches.

[ForsakenPotato]

2 hours ago, king of nowhere said:

oh, right. if they found the screen time for pushing egwene down a cliff, they should totally find it for the arches.

I never said should, you added that! Just giving my prediction. Most fantastical ceremonies/trials/rituals feel like storytelling shortcuts to me, and imho are overused in the genre. Fantasy authors and screenwriters can't seem to resist 'em though, and I don't think this show is different.

[DojoToad]

To answer your title question - yes they can be removed and probably should be.  In the books, the arches were a form of graduation that came after education/training. (Minimal but present for Nynaeve on the first pass)

 

Considering everything Egwene and Nynaeve can do already in the show, there is no need for training and graduation.  No need for arches.

[Wassup]

I think the arches also give the reader a better understanding of what it takes to be an Aes Sedai. The commitment and dedication these women have had and the trials they had to endure to achieve their place in the tower shows through. Otherwise, it seems like anyone who can channel can be a sister. 
 

It can be cut out and not hurt the story. It does add to the overall world. Although, the way some Aes Sedai behave in the books makes one wonder how they passed the tests. 

[Pandemonium]

On 2/26/2023 at 1:00 AM, Sir_Charrid said:

In the book forum I posted the sense I get that, or all the major events to happen to the main characters throughout the books, the 3 arches experience  of Nyn and Egwene has no long term character impact 

 

The scenes themselves are told well, and they include some minor foreshadowing. But neither character is significantly changed by the event, neither character has a moment later on where there experience here “pays off”, either in a choice they make, or an action they succeed in. 
 

The scenes post more questions than answers and these questions are never followed up. 
 

Yes you can argue as a world building exercise they add something, we get to experience what becoming accepted involves. But in terms of character development the only thing that happens is the girls become accepted. 
 

So with that in mind, I will not be disappointed if they remove those scenes from the TV series. It is never good to have questions left that can never be paid off, or to have scenes shown that never then feed into a future action. So you would have scenes that will take time and budget to film and then never pay anything off. They do not impact the last battle other than being a test, a first step on the journey for the female leads. So many bigger things shape them later. 
 

Especially when you compare this with Avi’s equivalent journey which we don’t see but drastically impacts her character and changes her. 
 

So thoughts are the silver arches scenes an absolute must for you? 

I am unable to predict anything the showrunners are doing.  They are on their own page.  That said, ter'angreal like the arches, the dream stones, the portal stones, the Finn Ter'angreal all offer a chance for future foreshadowing, character exposition from the past, and insight into the motives of other characters.  Therefore I expect them to use some of these devices, I just don't which devices they will use.

[Some_random_novice]

While none of us are able to predict what the show runners able to do, (unless one of you all is a doom-seer). But from what we have seen so far is the show spends a lot of time on AES Sedai or at least Moraine, which makes me think that they might use the rings or at least some sort of future seeing rings. They might have Egwene go through the Finn Ta’angral rather than the White Tower rings.

I don’t think it would hurt the plot very much if they kept the White Tower rings out of the show, it would mean more episode time and not revealing to much that Egwene would become Amyrlin. 
 

just my unwanted .02 cents 

[WhiteVeils]

They have a hint already that the rings may be present, at least for Nnaeve.  They have a shot in the teaser of her with unbraided hair, and her mother is cast.

That said, imagine no more than one scene 'within' the rings that tries to bring everything together, not three, and not the same as the books.
Having Egwene do it is much less important, since we had a tidbit from her rings journey in Rand's vision in E08 anyway and to show too much more would give away that she'll be Amyrlin.

[Dagon Thyne]

On 2/28/2023 at 12:06 PM, WhiteVeils said:

They have a hint already that the rings may be present, at least for Nnaeve.  They have a shot in the teaser of her with unbraided hair, and her mother is cast.

That said, imagine no more than one scene 'within' the rings that tries to bring everything together, not three, and not the same as the books.
Having Egwene do it is much less important, since we had a tidbit from her rings journey in Rand's vision in E08 anyway and to show too much more would give away that she'll be Amyrlin.

I Think they'll go with the Harry Potter in the pensieve route, where she goes through one ring and then The scene just shifts from one to the other without her exiting until the end.

Edited March 3, 2023 by Dagon Thyne

[Shortstuff]

They could cut the rings entirely to free up valuable screentime especially given the books only mention the aftermath for Elayne & Nynaeve E.g. Nynaeve's "I hate Aes Sedai". If they do go ahead then they'd need to create events for both (more showrunners creative liberties) but streamline things & show one event for each of the trio or we'll end up with 1 whole episode focussed on them & no development on the 3 male ta'veren i.e. it'd potentially end up like the created Steppin subplot to demonstrate the consequences of the bond and fail in terms of time efficiency.

[Lightfriendsocialmistress]

Possibly a meld of tel’aran’rhiod and terangreal….not necessarily one or the other but maybe portraying significant themes as dreams or visions 

[Cipher]

On 2/26/2023 at 5:56 AM, Sir_Charrid said:

So the follow up do we remove this entirely from the lore of becoming accepted in the tv show? Or is it simply done off screen and we only see the aftermath? 

I totally think the arches should be there, but we only see the after math with Egwene making some canonical commemts of what she faced.

 

But we must see Mat's journey to the land of the Fin.

[Kalessin]

The arches are a part of what was once well known to everyone calling themselves Aes Sedai. They're part of the link to the past. And WoT lives quite heavily in the past, to the extent that poor Rand is thoroughly bewildered by Aviendha's assumption in The Shadow Rising that his riding a horse is part of his accepting changes more readily than she does.

 

All the same, we don't need to see everything. Only the parts that foreshadow, and the parts that hurt the most, I'd say.