Season 2 sneak peek + other NYCC stuff

[DojoToad]

13 minutes ago, SBroc said:

Question- If Matt isn't part of the hunt for the horn does that make it look like Perrin with be the one that uses it?  Is there a way in this current version that Matt still gets to the Aiel with Rand- gets his staff and gets to Falme and the horn?  If he's not involved with any of that where is the character going?

Too early to say.  I think there is plenty of opportunity for the characters to go any number of directions.

[king of nowhere]

15 hours ago, SBroc said:

Question- If Matt isn't part of the hunt for the horn does that make it look like Perrin with be the one that uses it?  Is there a way in this current version that Matt still gets to the Aiel with Rand- gets his staff and gets to Falme and the horn?  If he's not involved with any of that where is the character going?

they can very easily stumble on mat during the hunt, and mat can take his place. i doubt they'll make such a change as to change the hornsounder

[DojoToad]

7 minutes ago, king of nowhere said:

they can very easily stumble on mat during the hunt, and mat can take his place. i doubt they'll make such a change as to change the hornsounder

I doubt it as well, but you never know...

[Cauthonfan4]

On 10/12/2022 at 6:59 AM, king of nowhere said:

i doubt they'll make such a change as to change the hornsounder

After everything else they have changed? Wouldn't put it past them

[Wassup]

On 10/12/2022 at 5:59 AM, king of nowhere said:

they can very easily stumble on mat during the hunt, and mat can take his place. i doubt they'll make such a change as to change the hornsounder

Matt could be taken to Tar Avalon by the Red. Liandrin decides to take him South with Eggy, Naive, and Elayne. Boom, he is back where he needs to be, roughly. 

[Skipp]

2 hours ago, Wassup said:

Matt could be taken to Tar Avalon by the Red. Liandrin decides to take him South with Eggy, Naive, and Elayne. Boom, he is back where he needs to be, roughly. 

Hoping for more of a Mat over hears Liandrin scheming so he breaks out and follows them..... Maybe with a certain Gleeman.  But either way Mat should be more to back on track.

[Sabio]

That is sort of my guess is Mat will be chilling in Tar Valon when the Wonder Girls arrive sort of like Mat in Book 3.  He might possibly meet Thom again and go running off to save the girls.  

[king of nowhere]

23 hours ago, Cauthonfan4 said:

After everything else they have changed? Wouldn't put it past them

But all those changes have motivations, whether we agree with them or not. They are made to save time, or to externalize internal conflicts, or to introduce themes.

Having perrin sound the horn would do nothing of the sort; a paradox, it would actually change very little in the plot: perrin would take up some of mat role. It would not streamline anything. It would not change events. It would just swap perrin with mat in some scenes.

As it is, all the ta'verens have a similar share of plot material. Unless they want to eliminate one of them entirely, they have no reason to shift plots from one to the other

[Cauthonfan4]

5 hours ago, king of nowhere said:

Unless they want to eliminate one of them entirely, they have no reason to shift plots from one to the other

you mean like having rand save everyone at the gap? oh wait...

[Skipp]

1 hour ago, Cauthonfan4 said:

you mean like having rand save everyone at the gap? oh wait...

This was clearly done to give characters other than Rand something to do in the finale.

[Cauthonfan4]

1 hour ago, Skipp said:

This was clearly done to give characters other than Rand something to do in the finale

1) they could have done that so many other ways.

2) the point was we already have examples of them changing stuff that belongs to others 

[Skipp]

5 minutes ago, Cauthonfan4 said:

1) they could have done that so many other ways.

2) the point was we already have examples of them changing stuff that belongs to others 

We were talking specifically about changing something for a reason "But all those changes have motivations, whether we agree with them or not. They are made to save time, or to externalize internal conflicts, or to introduce themes."

 

This was likely one of those.  I think this might possibly play into Nynaeve's block.

[Cauthonfan4]

1 hour ago, Skipp said:

This was likely one of those.  I think this might possibly play into Nynaeve's block

Doesn't matter. The point was they have proven they can shift stuff people do already. Period. End of story.

 

So to say that they won't change stuff for others? Yeah. Not holding my breath. 

Their motivations for making changes doesn't matter. They could have easily had other reasons to include them in the final episode that are more in line with their character that result in the same thing.

 

Like nynaeve and egwene helping out at the gap, and healing soldiers as they get injured. Lan could get seriously injured again near the end, and nynaeve completely overdoes it to heal him.

 

Which is totally in line with her character and was completely established earlier in the season that she would react in such a way. 

 

But that would require the writers to know what they are doing and to understand the source material and care.

Edited October 15, 2022 by Cauthonfan4

[Skipp]

40 minutes ago, Cauthonfan4 said:

Doesn't matter. The point was they have proven they can shift stuff people do already. Period. End of story.

 

So to say that they won't change stuff for others? Yeah. Not holding my breath. 

Their motivations for making changes doesn't matter. They could have easily had other reasons to include them in the final episode that are more in line with their character that result in the same thing.

 

Like nynaeve and egwene helping out at the gap, and healing soldiers as they get injured. Lan could get seriously injured again near the end, and nynaeve completely overdoes it to heal him.

 

Which is totally in line with her character and was completely established earlier in the season that she would react in such a way. 

 

But that would require the writers to know what they are doing and to understand the source material and care.

 

Remember they are also shifting a things around to save time.  Having Rand face off against Ishy or any other forsaken at the Eye and then teleporting to the gap to save everyone there is ultimately a waste of time. They save time by splitting the the events here.

 

And yes the writers do know the story, Nynaeve has an issue "surrendering" to saidar which is ultimately reponsible for her block.  Well know viewers will get to know that one of the reasons that Nynaeve has an issue surrendering is that the last time she did was nearly died/burnt out.

 

But hey, you clearly don't trust the writers and won't give them the benefit of the doubt.  That's fine and your choice.  While I didn't care for every change they made in the show I feel like I can see why they are doing it and where they are heading.

[WhiteVeils]

I think a goal is to give each of the EF5 Climactic Finale hero moments so the part of the Memory of Light 'It was all of them' is very true and front-and-center all the way through. Egwene and Nynaeve healing isn't a hero moment. Them facing down the trollocs is. Rand doesn't need 2 hero moments in the season 1 finale, so splitting them so Nynaeve and Egwene each get one makes sense.  Perrin and Mat, however, did not get S1 Hero moments, especially with the recast, so it make sense to give them their hero moments in S2.

Fortunately, the books gives some help.  Rand fights Ishy...definitely hero moment, even if he doesn't claim callendor.  Mat sounds the Horn...definite hero moment.  And with his inate conflict 'Am I really able to be a hero?' sounding the horn gives him an actual story arc.  Nynaeve and Elayne rescuing Egwene and Egwene helping break herself free gives them a smaller hero moment.  But how do we give a hero moment to Perrin? Faile isn't introduced until S3, so his hero moment in the books of saving her doesn't get much play, even if it can be called a hero moment.  Carrying the banner doesn't much compare to the Horn.  He didn't get a hero moment in S1.  He needs a good hero moment to be on par with the others.  I think they're going to play up the conflict between Perrin and the Seanchen, and also have him wrestle with violence vs. The Way of the Leaf, and then his hero moment will be fighting and killing High Lord Turok.

Rand doesn't need both Ishy and Turok as hero moments, and his innate conflict isn't about violence. Perrin taking that hero moment from Rand will mean more and completes a potential season-long story arc for Perrin.

[Agitel]

I'm also expecting season two to basically adapt books 2 and 3. Perhaps back to back, but more likely condensed/paralleled into one arc.

[Sabio]

Two books in eight episodes seems like alot especially when they are already adding stuff for Moiraine and Lan.

[DojoToad]

1 hour ago, WhiteVeils said:

I think a goal is to give each of the EF5 Climactic Finale hero moments so the part of the Memory of Light 'It was all of them' is very true and front-and-center all the way through. Egwene and Nynaeve healing isn't a hero moment. Them facing down the trollocs is. Rand doesn't need 2 hero moments in the season 1 finale, so splitting them so Nynaeve and Egwene each get one makes sense.  Perrin and Mat, however, did not get S1 Hero moments, especially with the recast, so it make sense to give them their hero moments in S2.

Fortunately, the books gives some help.  Rand fights Ishy...definitely hero moment, even if he doesn't claim callendor.  Mat sounds the Horn...definite hero moment.  And with his inate conflict 'Am I really able to be a hero?' sounding the horn gives him an actual story arc.  Nynaeve and Elayne rescuing Egwene and Egwene helping break herself free gives them a smaller hero moment.  But how do we give a hero moment to Perrin? Faile isn't introduced until S3, so his hero moment in the books of saving her doesn't get much play, even if it can be called a hero moment.  Carrying the banner doesn't much compare to the Horn.  He didn't get a hero moment in S1.  He needs a good hero moment to be on par with the others.  I think they're going to play up the conflict between Perrin and the Seanchen, and also have him wrestle with violence vs. The Way of the Leaf, and then his hero moment will be fighting and killing High Lord Turok.

Rand doesn't need both Ishy and Turok as hero moments, and his innate conflict isn't about violence. Perrin taking that hero moment from Rand will mean more and completes a potential season-long story arc for Perrin.

If everyone is a hero, then no one is...

[VooDooNut]

11 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

If everyone is a hero, then no one is...

If every character's arc is based on being heroic, I agree, but each character can have heroic moments without it becoming cliche. To be fair, most of the characters in the books are fairly heroic at one point or another.

[Skipp]

43 minutes ago, Sabio said:

Two books in eight episodes seems like alot especially when they are already adding stuff for Moiraine and Lan.

 

There is alot of over laptop between the two books.  Do the wonder girls need to be kidnapped twice?  Does Rand need to Fight Ishamhel twice?  Do the groups need to split up only go end up in the exact same location twice?  There is certainly room for it to be trimmed here.  We know Mat is skipping his book two arc(what arc?), and just going for his book 3 arc. 

[holger]

1 hour ago, Sabio said:

Two books in eight episodes seems like alot especially when they are already adding stuff for Moiraine and Lan.

It will not be two books, more like one and a half. Most of season 2 will come from book 2. From book 3 I expect them to only pick up some parts of the Nynaeve, Elayne and Mat story lines, and very little otherwise. Tear will be left for a later season. Many parts of book 3 will be completely cut, e.g. almost everything related to the journeys from Falme to Tar Valon (girls), from Falme to Tear (Perrin, Moiraine) and from Tar Valon to Tear via Caemlyn (Mat).

 

We need about 1.6 to 1.7 books per season on average if we want to adapt 14 books into 8 seasons, and that is already accounting for the "slog" books being very heavily compressed.

[VooDooNut]

6 minutes ago, holger said:

It will not be two books, more like one and a half. Most of season 2 will come from book 2. From book 3 I expect them to only pick up some parts of the Nynaeve, Elayne and Mat story lines, and very little otherwise. Tear will be left for a later season. Many parts of book 3 will be completely cut, e.g. almost everything related to the journeys from Falme to Tar Valon (girls), from Falme to Tear (Perrin, Moiraine) and from Tar Valon to Tear via Caemlyn (Mat).

 

We need about 1.6 to 1.7 books per season on average if we want to adapt 14 books into 8 seasons, and that is already accounting for the "slog" books being very heavily compressed.

we can definitely use some *snip* *snip* with the slog.

[holger]

3 hours ago, WhiteVeils said:

I think a goal is to give each of the EF5 Climactic Finale hero moments so the part of the Memory of Light [...]

 

I think they're going to play up the conflict between Perrin and the Seanchen, and also have him wrestle with violence vs. The Way of the Leaf, and then his hero moment will be fighting and killing High Lord Turok.

Rand doesn't need both Ishy and Turok as hero moments, and his innate conflict isn't about violence. Perrin taking that hero moment from Rand will mean more and completes a potential season-long story arc for Perrin.

I absolutely agree with the need for balance, but that does not necessarily need to happen in every season. We need to see it across the overall show. Some season finales will inevitably be limited to a small group of characters, or even individual characters (e.g. attack by the Seanchan on the White Tower). I expect Perrin to get a major solo hero moment in the S3 mid season event (battle for the Two Rivers).

 

I am not so sure about Perrin and Turak. Turak is a blade master, and killing him is Rand's main early sword fighting accomplishment. For Perrin to fight him, Turak would have to be redefined. Also, assuming Mat is together with Rand (and Perrin is in a separate group, with the Aiel), it would be logistically easier for Mat to take the horn, so he can blow it later, while Rand fights Turak. Perrin could have different activities in Falme, e.g. he may be involved in rescuing Egwene, perhaps together with the Aiel. Having the Aiel be involved in Egwene's rescue would help build trust between Egwene and the Aiel, which could lead towards Egwene's decision to go to the Waste in S3.

[DojoToad]

1 hour ago, VooDooNut said:

If every character's arc is based on being heroic, I agree, but each character can have heroic moments without it becoming cliche. To be fair, most of the characters in the books are fairly heroic at one point or another.

And this is part of what doesn't work for me in the adaptation for TV.  The heroic moments are coming too fast.  Though I don't remember any for Mat and Perrin.  Nynaeve had the ninja kill on the trolloc and the healing explosion in the Aes Sedai camp.  Egwene brought Nynaeve back from the edge of death.  And together they took out all the baddies at Tarwin's Gap.  Rand had the Eye.

 

They're making a super hero show not a fantasy.

[VooDooNut]

23 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

And this is part of what doesn't work for me in the adaptation for TV.  The heroic moments are coming too fast.  Though I don't remember any for Mat and Perrin.  Nynaeve had the ninja kill on the trolloc and the healing explosion in the Aes Sedai camp.  Egwene brought Nynaeve back from the edge of death.  And together they took out all the baddies at Tarwin's Gap.  Rand had the Eye.

 

They're making a super hero show not a fantasy.

I don't disagree that the Nynaeve and Egwene moments were over the top S1, but I think we have to see more before I pass judgement. A WAFO if you will...