The Seanchan

[SingleMort]

Just wondering what people think the portrayal of the Seanchan will be like in season 2? 

 

The Seanchan characters always came across a quite complex when I read the books because on the one hand their culture does the monstrous thing of enslaving people who can channel and treating them like animals, and they are invading and conquering lands and people they have no real claim on (although they believe otherwise), but equally they cannot be just dismissed as "evil" or "bad guys". We see that the Seanchan view themselves as liberators bringing lost peoples back into the fold of the empire and bringing enlightenment. There also have strong values of morality and justice (even if this is somewhat twisted when it comes to channellers and invading other peoples countries), people who serve them appear in many cases to be fairly treated and rewarded for their service. We see in Tuon and Egeanin characters who have values, loyalties and relationships that are very like our cast of heroes even to the point where I (as a reader) found myself actually caring for some of these characters who come from this regime that does such terrible things. 

 

After seeeing how the first season of WoT has played out I don't hold out much hope that the Seanchan of the books will be the Seanchan of the TV show. Changes seem inevitable at this point (Light, I hope they are good changes and not bad ones!). However, after only one brief scene there is not much to go on yet. But I was a bit apprehensive when I saw the tsunami. It's been a couple of years since I last read the books but as far as I recall Seanchan from the books do not usually conduct unprovoked attacks. I recall them offering most people the chance to swear alliegance to the empire then allowing them to go about their business as usual. Forgetting the surrender option for a moment there also doesn't seem to be much strategic significance to flooding the land with a tsunami as we see no defences this attack is aimed at (maybe they are there but out of shot?) and as the Seanchan plan to land and colonize this land, ruining it with a flood just seems like it would make more work for themselves? I'm not necessarily saying this was a bad choice of the show, just trying to work out the reasoning behind it.

 

Anyway what did other people think of that scene and what do you think the Seanchan will be like when we properly see them in the show?

[Sabio]

Well from how it looked to me, the beach they created the tsunami to hit seemed mostly uninhabited.  I didn't mind most of what I saw about them.  The chains are gone.  I think for time sake, their history will be changed some.  Their channelers have more of a Sharan look to them.

[Chivalry]

It's true that the Seanchan brought order to areas that had fallen into chaos and basically allowed people to live their lives once they swore allegiance. Hopefully the series reveals this complexity, in addition to putting on display their monstrous behavior.

[SingleMort]

16 minutes ago, Chivalry said:

It's true that the Seanchan brought order to areas that had fallen into chaos and basically allowed people to live their lives once they swore allegiance. Hopefully the series reveals this complexity, in addition to putting on display their monstrous behavior.

I agree one thing I really don't want is for the TV series to simplify them into cartoon bad guys. One of the reasons I liked the books so much is they didn't try to do things like that. It felt like a reflection of real life because in most cases you can't look at a whole culture and say oh these are the "bad guys". Things are just not as simple as that, people can do good things and those same people can do bad things, does that make them good guys or bad guys? It was always grey for me not black and white and that's one of the main reasons they were such interesting characters in my opinion. 

[rowdie]

?? Gold passifiers = Silver collars ??

IDK Rafe has changed so much, and for what reason????  The channeling scenes are about the only thing I like at this point.  

[DaddyFinn]

The damane look so much more sinister and unnerving with those mouthgags. I suppose they can't speak at all with those and are only removed when they drink/eat. Dehumanization is still there for sure, just different.

[Storeebooq]

Dehumanizing of women is going to be so jarring to watch. It was jarring to read. The gold mouthpiece makes it worse. I hope Rafe handles it better than RJ did. 

 

I feel like with the Seanchan their first introduction will seem basic and "cartoonish" at first, and then they will get deeper. Hoping so at least. 

 

I'm into the sinister aesthetics, though I'm missing the insect inspiration. I know Rafe says it's there...but I more see Conan the Barbarian than Imperial Insect Army, hah! Except for the ship's sails. Wow, creepy.

 

I'm curious to how they will explain how the Sul'dam and Damane work and connect with the one power. We haven't seen a clear distinction between channelers having the spark vs teachable...which seemed like an essential thing related to the Seanchan's basis for distinction. 

 

 

[DaddyFinn]

Those helmets are looking good

 

[DigificWriter]

7 hours ago, rowdie said:

?? Gold passifiers = Silver collars ??

IDK Rafe has changed so much, and for what reason????  The channeling scenes are about the only thing I like at this point.  

 

The look of these characters and their 'slaves' would fall under the purview of Isis Mussenden and her Costuming team, so if you don't like those decisions, blame them, not Rafe.

[king of nowhere]

that tsunami makes no sense.

i assume, also judging from rafe's interview, that they wanted to get a sense of dread, to show that those newcomers are really powerful. we just saw 5 channelers repel an army, and now we see invaders with dozens and dozens of channelers. and they look aggressive.

so that tsunami is meant to evoke "those strange people are powerful and scary".

Unfortunately, it is a nonsensical scene. first, it makes no sense for them to invoke a tsunami without even announcing themselves.

second, there is a massive cliff on the coast, so the tsunami will stop there and won't do any damage. except to the child. by the way, where did she come from? where are her parents? where is her village?

 

the whole scene is dumb. it attempts to convey an emotional impact, and it does if you disconnect your brain and don't think of the implications.

 

11 hours ago, DaddyFinn said:

The damane look so much more sinister and unnerving with those mouthgags. I suppose they can't speak at all with those and are only removed when they drink/eat. Dehumanization is still there for sure, just different.

my theory is that the mouthgags are really face masks for covid, with some paint on them. it was cheaper to do it than to get a test for all the actresses ??

9 hours ago, Storeebooq said:

I feel like with the Seanchan their first introduction will seem basic and "cartoonish" at first, and then they will get deeper. Hoping so at least.

 

in the books they did that. they did seem cartoonish bad guys in the second book, they gained more complexity only later.

[Skipp]

7 hours ago, DaddyFinn said:

Those helmets are looking good

 

In general I love the look of the Seanchan so far.  Very different in some ways to me head canon and oddly similar in other ways.  They certainly feel alien like how Domon Bayle feels when he runs into them.

 

One thing I should mention is that the conversation about the leashes has come up on Lezbi Nerdy's discord a few times.  Some people  worried how they would look specifically with Egwene in mind.  With Madeleine Madden of being of aboriginal Australian descent, there is some very real world aspects to her heritage and being leashed. 

 

Ultimately I think they have take the collar and leash design in a good direction.  It is certainly striking even if the "muzzle" is a little off putting.

[Sabio]

I'm guessing the Seanchan exotic pets will be reduced alot and the slave see through outfits will be gone.

[babythunderpanda]

12 hours ago, Storeebooq said:

Except for the ship's sails. Wow, creepy.

 

Historical Chinese ships

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junk_(ship)

 

When I lived in Hong Kong, I used to love sitting at the harbor and watching the ships, and I would always get extra excited when a junk would sail by, it was always such a beautiful contrast against the stark modernity of the skyline in the background and the plethora of other modern boats. The red sails really do evoke something otherworldly.

EDIT: Just wanted to add that I loved the use of the junks!

Edited December 25, 2021 by babythunderpanda
Additional comment

[Fox]

I think the collar and leash on the damane wouldn't have been received well. The gag still gets across their treatment of channelers, without really triggering some groups of people. 

[SingleMort]

1 hour ago, Fox said:

I think the collar and leash on the damane wouldn't have been received well. 

No offense but isn't that the whole point? Having depictions of slavery that are politically correct and not humiliating, or dehumanising seems like a contradiction in terms. 

Edited December 25, 2021 by SingleMort

[JenniferL]

Honestly, I find the muzzle to be even more dehumanizing than the collar and leash. Having your voice taken away like that is just chilling. 

[Sabio]

It's also rather distracting, the Seanchan look is pretty cool but all I really see is bright gold pacifiers.  You will never make a good show if you take out everything someone may find offensive.  If you didn't want a collar and chain fine, but the giant gold pacifier probably wasn't needed for the look.

[chri5]

Those muzzles look terrible to me. 
 

this was a change that doesn’t help anything. Instead of snapping a leash on someone, they shove a ball gag in their mouth lol

[JenniferL]

I am concerned that they will break Egwene’s teeth on that thing. 

[SingleMort]

2 minutes ago, JenniferL said:

I am concerned that they will break Egwene’s teeth on that thing. 

Lol I'm sure if Nyneave can heal a whole room full of people with one weave and shield someone from getting burnt out then healing a few broken teeth isn't going to be much of a problem. ?

[Wassup]

6 hours ago, Skipp said:

 With Madeleine Madden of being of aboriginal Australian descent, there is some very real world aspects to her heritage and being leashed. 

I think this should have zero impact on what is depicted with imaginary, fictional characters living in a fantastical, fantasy world portrayed in a fantasy television show. 
There is no Australia in this world and her character is not an aboriginal character. 
 

I think it is appropriate if people do not like the Seanchan having slaves. They are a fearsome and brutal civilization. 

[king of nowhere]

2 hours ago, SingleMort said:

No offense but isn't that the whole point? Having depictions of slavery that are politically correct and not humiliating, or dehumanising seems like a contradiction in terms. 

yeah, the whole point is that what the seanchan are doing is BAD. it's like kicking puppies, really: people don't like to see puppies being kicked, and we have the villains do it exactly to show they are the villains.

 

next thing, the seanchan will ask egwene if she please will let herself be put into an a'dam, if it doesn't hurt her feelings.

[Guire]

I think a bracelet and collar with no leash was best option.  All the stealing a'dam and using it on Sul'dam is gone.  Not sneaking chest plate collar into a bag.  Ball gags are visually striking but will get old real quick.  I find lots of visual decisions wonky in show.  Hope it goes away in second season.  I know lots of people love costuming.  I have found lots of visual decisions distracting in scenes where I wanted to focus on character interaction.

[Vambram]

I think that it would have been better to use a chain and collar, or bracelets and a collar, or even bracelets and a muzzle. To me, those gold ball gags really do like like gold pacifiers. It looks very silly and cheap in my opinion.

[Gianna]

The showrunner has made so many changes, most of them utterly senseless and out of joint with Jordan's text, that gold dummies on the damane is just another silly change. The Seanchan are MEANT to be dehumanising in the manner they treat their damane and therefore to soften this to accommodate the sensitive Snowflake generation is utter nonsense. I didn't  see Game of Thrones go gentle on Sansa, esp in the rape scene. And it worked! It was MEANT to disturb us, and horrify us. So the Seanchan ought to disturb us, and also surprise us. They are quite contradictory as a nation/culture. The tsunami? Utter rubbish! Unless it was merely an exercise to keep the damane "in tune'?! The whole finale of season 1 for me was pretty average and I  wouldn't  have rated it more than a B, and that's  being generous! If Rand goes off into the Waste then the significan episode in the Stone of Tear will be lost and Rand's definitive battle with the Foresaken lost. I hope it is not so.