Possible Moiraine Storyline Changes?

[Jasnah]

I can't accept that the oath rod and oath wording were one episode plot devices. Add to that the show's addition of Min's viewing of Moiraine. (I'm cognizant of the difference between "the Amyrlin Seat" and "Siuan" in the viewing). Why add that viewing if her storyline was going to remain the same as in the books? I've seen speculation that the Eye is a trap that Moiraine is leading Rand into, and since this event is triggered by Siuan's dreams, falling into the trap would mean the Amyrlin caused her downfall. But I see this as a possible mistake on Moiraine's part, not necessarily a "downfall." Downfalls are more hardcore and tragic than that. 

 

Moiraine's downfall in the books must be when she lost her powers to the Finn, no? And that was not caused by Siuan or an Amyrlin Seat. So I think it's safe to speculate that Moiraine's storyline will differ from the books.

 

In the books, as we know, Moiraine is presumed dead for many books, then is rescued. I can't see this happening in the TV show. I don't think Rosamund Pike would just disappear for however many seasons it takes to cover her book absence, and then just return. I don't know anything about what is involved in producing a TV show, but I'd imagine that trying to hold an actress for a few years offscreen (or shoehorning her in for years via flashbacks) is something that would be avoided if possible. There's a possibility that she'll just die and never come back, but....I know I'm biased because Moiraine has been my favorite character from jump, but Pike is carrying the show, I think. The other actors are going a great job making me enjoy characters that I wasn't sold on in the books, but I don't think any of them have the screen presence that Pike does. Voluntarily removing her from the show would be a foolish idea, IMO. Anyway...

 

So, my thoughts:

1. The Finn thing is included, but her experience there is shown parallel to the show's events and her rescue is moved up, shortening her absence. But, this still doesn't figure in an Amyrlin causing her downfall. I guess it could be worked in somehow, but I have no ideas at the moment. I'd like to hear other's thoughts on how that could fit.

 

2. Siuan calls Moiraine home shortly before, or during, her deposition, and Moiraine takes the fall with Siuan. It's possible that the oath was a one episode throw-away, but it seems too intentional for me to discount. There are a myriad other ways to show the pain of their separation, but they chose this way. Moiraine's book death excuses her from the main action for. bit, so other than lining up Moiraine's book death with Siuan's deposition, this would require minimal main storyline disruption. In a way, Moiraine could take the place of Leanne, who does not have a relationship with anyone in the show so far, and who the non-book viewers are totally ignorant of anyway. (I like Leanne in the books, but we need to be practical here) In this way, Moiraine's downfall could be attributed to either Siuan or whoever the show puts in the Seat after Siuan, thus fulfilling Min's viewing. If they want Moiraine's powers to be reduced/removed in the show, this is how they could do it. From there, it wouldn't be difficult to get Moiraine back to Rand somehow. They could even presume her dead for some of this time. 

 

3. Moiraine is not very affected by the Amyrlin in the books, whether the Amyrlin is Siuan or someone else. It's not like Moiraine was ever obeying Elaida. Moiraine gives no craps about the Amyrlin. And in the books, Moiraine has limited care for Siuan as Amyrlin either, to be honest. So there must be a reason to bring up the Amyrlin so soon after episode 6, especially since much of Moiraine's book storyline happens independently of the Amyrlin or the Tower. So, I'd have to assume that the Amyrlin/Siuan still matters in the show.

 

4. I mean, is the Thom thing going to happen in the show? Really? The optics of two characters being "gay for the stay" until the right man shows up is such a horrible thing that I hope is becoming part of the past. It struck me as wrong when I read the series, and seeing it on screen in 2021 would be a gut punch. Sure, it *could* happen, but should it? Even if they keep the Finn and Thom rescue, that doesn't mean Thom and Moiraine have to be a thing. Mat and Moiraine aren't a thing and he gave up a whole eye. That's gotta be worth something. 

 

I have a hard time believing that we've seen the last of Moiraine/Siuan collaborations. Even those who are not fans of the portrayal of their relationship in the show don't deny the chemistry of their characters when they're together ("together" meaning sharing the screen), and the marvelous acting. Not to see more would be a shame. Doing that for one episode in season 1 would be so cruel.

[Ryrin]

That is one change I would support. I’d love for Moiraine to continue throughout the show.

[DigificWriter]

Every piece of documented evidence we have demonstrates that Moiraine is the WoT TV adaptation's primary main character, which in practical terms means that, barring Rosamund leaving the show, she (Moiraine) is always going to have some part to play in the narrative regardless of what may or may not have specifically happened in the novels.

[EmreY]

I agree with everything said so far, and will say, as I have suggested before, that Moraine will take Cadsuane's place.  Being stilled, stuck in a cell in the White Tower, escaping and then ultimately being healed by the DR would be perfectly fine with me.

[Jaysen Gore]

On this topic, a thought occurred to me today. 

"I have held the Seat of Tamyrlin; I commanded the 9 Rods of Dominion"

The Amyrlin will indeed be Moiraine's downfall. The Amyrlin in question is LTT. Aiding Rand causes her to falldown through a doorway.

 

or - in this turning, Meirin Sedai was Amyrlin Seat when she drilled the bore. Everything else remains the same. 

 

or - Siuan and the Reds will be coming to FD in season 2, and Moiraine goes back to the Tower under guard with them for letting the DR walk.  From there, as I posted in another thread, I can see her picking up Leane's story arc, and then Cadsuane's, then her own again. 

 

or - after the Split of the Tower, she tries to rescue her lover, is captured, and repeats as above

 

OR

 

Until I see something concrete on the screen that prevents one of the major plot milestones for one of the major characters from happening, my working assumption is all of their plot lines will be identical to the books.

 

19 minutes ago, DigificWriter said:

Every piece of documented evidence we have demonstrates that Moiraine is the WoT TV adaptation's primary main character,

As was Sean Bean for Game of Thrones

[Jasnah]

31 minutes ago, DigificWriter said:

Every piece of documented evidence we have demonstrates that Moiraine is the WoT TV adaptation's primary main character, which in practical terms means that, barring Rosamund leaving the show, she (Moiraine) is always going to have some part to play in the narrative regardless of what may or may not have specifically happened in the novels.

Is that confirmed? For some reason I just assumed she'd be the focus of the first season and then it would shift. Not sure why I assumed that. 

[Jasnah]

18 minutes ago, EmreY said:

I agree with everything said so far, and will say, as I have suggested before, that Moraine will take Cadsuane's place.  Being stilled, stuck in a cell in the White Tower, escaping and then ultimately being healed by the DR would be perfectly fine with me.

I would be 100% on board with that!

[Agitel]

I'm concerned Rafe is going to kill her off this season at the Eye.

[DigificWriter]

21 minutes ago, Jaysen Gore said:

As was Sean Bean for Game of Thrones

 

People keep trying to make this comparison, but it's not accurate to do so.

 

20 minutes ago, Jasnah said:

Is that confirmed?

 

 

Moiraine has been repeatedly referred to as being the Series Lead (emphasis intended) and was the only character referenced by name in the series' official logline, and Rosamund Pike was the very first actor cast, is listed first on every cast document, and was given a Producer's credit for the series.

 

All of these things are signals, at least for anyone who is already familiar with or willing to learn about how TV production, actor contracts, and television narrative focus work, that the entirety of the WoT TV adaptation was configured to center on Moiraine.

Edited December 18, 2021 by DigificWriter

[Jaysen Gore]

11 minutes ago, DigificWriter said:

 

People keep trying to make this comparison, but it's not accurate to do so.

 

 

 

Moiraine has been repeatedly referred to as being the Series Lead (emphasis intended) and was the only character referenced by name in the series' official logline, and Rosamund Pike was the very first actor cast, is listed first on every cast document, and was given a Producer's credit for the series.

 

All of these things are signals, at least for anyone who is already familiar with or willing to learn about how TV production, actor contracts, and television narrative focus work, that the entirety of the WoT TV adaptation was configured to center on Moiraine.

I'm not saying you're not right, I'm saying I'll believe when I see it. There's 2 easy ways to greatly increase her screen time:

1. Have her replace Leane in the Siuan / Leane / Logain angle. 

2. Move Mat's rescue up to before he goes to Ebou Dar instead of after, and have Moiraine replace Cadusane. 

 

The second is easier, the first one maybe more interesting. But as I said elsewhere, until they change a major plot milestone on the TV series, I'm assuming the character specific plot lines remain unchanged.

[Skipp]

My personal theory is that Rand will continue to see a manifestation of Moiraine as part of his madness.  Having her berating everything he does would be an interesting thing for Rand to have to deal with.

 

I also think we will be seeing LTT as a physical manifestation rather than just a voice.

[WhiteVeils]

She is the story lead this season, certainly, and probably for the next couple of seasons. But that can change...and I'm sure it will.  Imagine the shock when certain events happen regarding a wagon in Cahrien!  

 

However, it does mean for the Great Hunt part especially, there will need to be a new storyline. My completely random guess is that Moiraine learns 2 things at the Eye.... 

1) The prophecies that they were following are wrong/a trap.  

2) They need to find new prophecies, or the meaning of the new prophecies.

And then in Season 2, she spends time discovering better prophecies.

Edited December 18, 2021 by WhiteVeils

[DigificWriter]

2 minutes ago, WhiteVeils said:

But that can change...and I'm sure it will.

 

I think your certainty is going to end up turning to disappointment.

[Jaysen Gore]

2 minutes ago, WhiteVeils said:

She is the story lead this season, certainly, and probably for the next couple of seasons. But that can change...and I'm sure it will.  Imagine the shock when certain events happen regarding a wagon in Cahrien!  

 

However, it does mean for the Great Hunt part especially, there will need to be a new storyline. My completely random guess is that Moiraine learns 2 things at the Eye.... 

1) The prophecies that they were following are wrong/a trap.  

2) They need to find new prophecies, or the meaning of the new prophecies.

And then in Season 2, she spends time discovering better prophecies.

And how to battle the Forsaken. Maybe with a forbidden weave.

I'd love to hear her and Loial debating the KC's veracity. 

[Storeebooq]

I don't see them having enough time and world building to do the things that were done in the books with Mor's storyline. 

 

My interpretation is that they'll have Siuan get replaced, and the new Amyrilin (maybe Liandrine?) will be instrumental in being a main protagonist against her. 

 

I could see her getting swept away to another world or mirror world at some point, and instead of her just disappearing like in the books, we actually see what she experiences. This would still keep her as series lead, but also separate her from the other characters...which I think is needed for their development and growth. It was significant in the books that they were on their own for a while and left to the guidance of others (Caddy, Wise Ones, Rhuarc, etc). 

 

I honestly have no clue where they will actually go with it, which has me both excited and apprehensive lol 

[Gothic Flame]

3 hours ago, Jasnah said:

Moiraine's downfall in the books must be when she lost her powers to the Finn, no?

No.

There is no "downfall" in the books.

Spoiler

When she "disappears" it's because she takes the one threat that Rand can't handle; Lanfear.

 

[mogi68]

I wouldn't mind if they "killed off" Moiraine tbh. The more focus on the EF'ers the better imho

[elteryon]

I think Rosamund Pike will be around for the long haul. Her separation from the EF5 should still happen but I think it will play in parallel and she won't be AWOL for more thsn a couple episodes if that.

 

My guess is that she takes on Cadsuane's role, with maybe a sterner/harsher posture after her travels in Finnland.

 

Maybe she gets some fancy headgear ter'angreal to match her sweet shoulder pads.

Edited December 19, 2021 by elteryon

[Yojimbo]

For all we know they will do away with the idea that a woman can't teach a man how to channel, and have her become Rand's teacher.    As crazy as that sounds, I wouldn't put it past them.   

[EmreY]

10 hours ago, Jaysen Gore said:

On this topic, a thought occurred to me today. 

"I have held the Seat of Tamyrlin; I commanded the 9 Rods of Dominion"

The Amyrlin will indeed be Moiraine's downfall. The Amyrlin in question is LTT. Aiding Rand causes her to falldown through a doorway.

 

 

 

Oooh, I like. 

 

But unfortunately the Amyrlin was referred to as "she".

[Lethira the second]

I would suggest perhaps Tamra is going to be Moiraines downfall, by ordering her to keep quiet about what she saw.

 

Without that, and the quest seeing the vision started, Moiraine could have lived a long happy life as a normal Aes Sedai.

Edited December 19, 2021 by Lethira the second

[Eelfinn_Ty]

I've been thinking about this and the more I ponder the more I think they will kill Moiraine at the eye.

 

She has repeatedly said they anyone who goes to the eye with the dragon will die, so she is expecting to die. If she survives there was no reason to shoehorn in the episode about Stepin. It could have been added next season, and that time better used.

 

She has 1 comment about passing the bond and then they spend time at the White Tower where she could set up the passing of the bond. 

 

In Fal Dara Lan finds her reminiscing about their past. She then proceeded to tell him goodbye and give her blessing to his relationship with Nynaeve. She knows he will need that to survive her death.

 

Min says the Amerlyn will be her downfall. The reason they are going to the eye is because of Suan's dreams. That also makes their night together and vows more meaningful. 

 

In the behind the scenes Rafe says that not everyone will survive/comeback from the eye. Rand and Moiraine are the only ones headed that way, and they can't kill off Rand!

 

How do you out "GoT" "GoT" you kill off the person you set up as the main character of the story! I can't think of anything that would ignite more conversations than that! 

 

Now that I've written all this the same could play out if she draws too much power. That possibility was set up with Leandrin in ep4. Lan's bond would be severed. Would she be releaved of her expulsion vow? She could still aid Rand with her knowledge of DDM and of the prophecies, and it wouldn't prevent her from shoving someone through a doorway. 

 

Someone poke holes in this because I want to be wrong but the more I look at it the more it seems to fit. 

[Elder_Haman]

She clearly doesn’t expect to return. But I think it is a bit too obvious. 
 

They’ve also hinted that Rand won’t come back. While we know that can’t be the case, they could head fake in that direction having him “die” from the wound in his side and then “resurrect” him in the cold open the following season. 
 

Another possibility: they “kill” Perrin, only to have the wolves revive him in the following season. 

[DigificWriter]

1 hour ago, Eelfinn_Ty said:

more I think they will kill Moiraine at the eye.

 

Rosamund Pike hasn't left the series, so they didn't kill Moiraine.

[VooDooNut]

1 hour ago, Eelfinn_Ty said:

In the behind the scenes Rafe says that not everyone will survive/comeback from the eye. Rand and Moiraine are the only ones headed that way, and they can't kill off Rand!

Don't two (well, maybe 1 and 1/2) people die at TEOTW in the book?

Spoiler

Aginor and Balthamel?