Prophecies, Viewings and Foreshadowing

[mogi68]

Spoiler

I think the baby is his and Egwene's, and will be one of the possible futures that Ishamael tempts him with

 

[JenniferL]

2 hours ago, VooDooNut said:

Hrrrrmmmm. No one else seems to think the Rand/Baby moment is from TGH portal stones scene, huh? It's the most convincing explanation for me, especially because the viewed moment could easily happen within the early parts of the second season.

I thought about that, but in the books Min’s visions are absolutes. She doesn’t usually see possible futures. The few times she has is notable enough that she comments on it and takes those visions the most seriously. 

[VooDooNut]

1 minute ago, JenniferL said:

I thought about that, but in the books Min’s visions are absolutes. She doesn’t usually see possible futures. The few times she has is notable enough that she comments on it and takes those visions the most seriously. 

Ok, fair point, that makes it tricky though. I guess I'd just assumed Rand never got the opportunity to hold a child of his own with his "Rand" body (later with Moridin's body, sure), and even if he did it would be at the end of the series. Definitely the most puzzling of the viewing so far.

[gibbons]

2 hours ago, VooDooNut said:

Ok, fair point, that makes it tricky though. I guess I'd just assumed Rand never got the opportunity to hold a child of his own with his "Rand" body (later with Moridin's body, sure), and even if he did it would be at the end of the series. Definitely the most puzzling of the viewing so far.

I suspect they are going to have him and maybe others have children before the end of the series, though if not maybe Min would see the viewing as Rand just because it's still him regardless, same soul and all that.

[VooDooNut]

58 minutes ago, gibbons said:

though if not maybe Min would see the viewing as Rand just because it's still him regardless, same soul and all that.

That would be a tear-jerker of a moment. Great idea.

Edited December 20, 2021 by VooDooNut

[Pandemonium]

3 hours ago, mogi68 said:

  Hide contents

I think the baby is his and Egwene's, and will be one of the possible futures that Ishamael tempts him with

 

Maybe Rand has a blight surprise waiting for him in 9 months?

[EmreY]

53 minutes ago, gibbons said:

I suspect they are going to have him and maybe others have children before the end of the series, though if not maybe Min would see the viewing as Rand just because it's still him regardless, same soul and all that.

 

Addendum to Epilogue, Book 14

 

"Rand looked at his reflection.  No way did he look like himself. He inspected himself in the mirror for a moment in the darkness, then thought of being himself again. And he was."

 

?

 

[ForsakenPotato]

The baby is, in my opinion, representative of the future generations Rand will being trying to save the world for. And he's probably going to hold or have a baby before the end of the series. It can be symbolic and something that actually happens.

 

Real question is if he believes her visions why are he and Min seemingly so worried he won't come back from the eye of the world? Unless he's going into the blight with Moiraine so she can have his baby I think he's safe for a bit.

[VooDooNut]

54 minutes ago, ForsakenPotato said:

Real question is if he believes her visions why are he and Min seemingly so worried he won't come back from the eye of the world? Unless he's going into the blight with Moiraine so she can have his baby I think he's safe for a bit.

Moiraine didn't tell Rand about the baby viewing, so he still thinks he's going to die. I don't think she told any of the Emond's Fielders any of the viewings. She's sneaky like that.

 

Edit: I need to eat my words a little bit here. When Rand sees Min alone later on, she tells him about a viewing that would logically occur after he goes to TEOTW (carnival stuff and three women) but in the next moment he doubtingly asks Min if he'll return from the Eye so it is a little odd that he doesn't assume he'll make it back to see these visions fulfilled.

Edited December 20, 2021 by VooDooNut
forgot about a scene

[EmreY]

49 minutes ago, ForsakenPotato said:

The baby is, in my opinion, representative of the future generations Rand will being trying to save the world for. And he's probably going to hold or have a baby before the end of the series. It can be symbolic and something that actually happens.

 

Real question is if he believes her visions why are he and Min seemingly so worried he won't come back from the eye of the world? Unless he's going into the blight with Moiraine so she can have his baby I think he's safe for a bit.

 

Your first point: Oooh, deep, man.

 

And for the other, she's just being evasive.  Rand is jumping to conclusions, as he often does, and Min might not be thrilled at the version of him that returns.

[ForsakenPotato]

The second part was mostly a joke anyway -- I assume the evasiveness on Min and Moiraine's part is mostly for manufactured tension. Not a lot of suspense if Rand walks up to the forsaken going "Come at me bros, I haven't even had my baby yet!"

[JenniferL]

No, that’s more of an Elayne trick. 

[Sabio]

Spoiler

Ughh Elayne, Min saw my babies being born healthy so it means I can do stupid stuff over and over, repeatedly putting my life in danger and everything will be ok.

But that is the reason she doesn't say stuff like You will win at the Eye or you'll return from the Eye.  Because it then risks people simply assuming they will be fine and do idiotic stuff.  Her rainbow, three beautiful women she made seem like a joke.  But having that vision should tell her he would return.  She doesn't tell people more then they need to know.  Min also doesn't always know what her viewings mean. Rand holding a baby could have to do with Tam finding him as a baby, maybe it's Rand's child in the future etc.  She usually isn't sure herself, so if she interprets the vision wrong and gives you bad advice, oops. If Min told Rand everything will be fine, I saw you holding your baby in the future.  Then it turns out that wasn't his baby, Rand might get himself killed at the Eye thinking he can't die if he will have a child in the future.

[themann1086]

I think I've said this before, but seeing folks trying to parse out prophecies and viewings again just makes me so happy. Wheel of Time is back, baby!

 

I really love the idea that the baby is a metaphor for future generations. I wouldn't have thought of that! I don't know if I believe it (I think I'm on Team Min's Baby) but it's a great idea, and definitely plausible.

[bringbackthomsmoustache]

29 minutes ago, themann1086 said:

I think I've said this before, but seeing folks trying to parse out prophecies and viewings again just makes me so happy. Wheel of Time is back, baby!

 

I really love the idea that the baby is a metaphor for future generations. I wouldn't have thought of that! I don't know if I believe it (I think I'm on Team Min's Baby) but it's a great idea, and definitely plausible.

If that was the case should he not be juggling it in an off hand fashion which drunk and blindfolded instead of holding it carefully??

[Elder_Haman]

9 hours ago, VooDooNut said:

When Rand sees Min alone later on, she tells him about a viewing that would logically occur after he goes to TEOTW (carnival stuff and three women) but in the next moment he doubtingly asks Min if he'll return from the Eye so it is a little odd that he doesn't assume he'll make it back to see these visions fulfilled.

Pretty sure he thought Min was teasing about those later visions.

[WhiteVeils]

If I recall correctly, during/before the filming for episodes 7 and 8, there was a casting call for an Asian baby.  I think they assumed it would be a baby Rand, but now we've seen an Asian baby, it probably was this baby.  Given that it's required to be Asian, and our connections between Rand and Asian babies are limited, I don't doubt this is supposed to be Min's baby.

[Sabio]

17 hours ago, mogi68 said:

  Hide contents

I think the baby is his and Egwene's, and will be one of the possible futures that Ishamael tempts him with

 

Min's visions always come true.  Very rarely is it a something may happen. Like in the book her vision with Siuan was if Garth stays close you both live if you two get too far apart you both die.  Usually it's a I see you will die sort of thing.  But what she sees always happens.

[bringbackthomsmoustache]

9 minutes ago, Sabio said:

Min's visions always come true.  Very rarely is it a something may happen. Like in the book her vision with Siuan was if Garth stays close you both live if you two get too far apart you both die.  Usually it's a I see you will die sort of thing.  But what she sees always happens.

Note: she stipulated that this applies on two occasions -

Spoiler

they pass the first one and lose the second due to separating, might cover off the either/or as not an alternative but both happen 

 

[Andra]

On 12/19/2021 at 7:42 AM, DigificWriter said:

 

Because the show establishes that Min's visions are actual glimpses of future events.

Which doesn't answer the question.

In the book, the exact same terms are used symbolically to depict the struggle against the Shadow.  On what basis do you say the show requires those terms to be taken literally - that is, literal sparks being literally swallowed by literal darkness - rather than symbolically.  "Actual glimpses of futute events" in no way implies the images aren't symbols of what those future events mean.

 

Please note: your own statement that people are literal sparks appears to refute your point.

 

People are not literal sparks.

Why couldn't a white flame not be a literal flame?  Or a baby not be a literal baby?

 

[Windigo]

On 12/16/2021 at 10:48 PM, Jaysen Gore said:

It's his kid with Min. Because, reasons.

That was my first thought, The child is the, viewing they are using  that she would fall in love with him. 

After reading posts though, Rand holding the "next generation" in his hands makes a lot of sense too. 

Edited December 21, 2021 by Windigo

[VooDooNut]

1 hour ago, Andra said:

Which doesn't answer the question.

In the book, the exact same terms are used symbolically to depict the struggle against the Shadow.  On what basis do you say the show requires those terms to be taken literally - that is, literal sparks being literally swallowed by literal darkness - rather than symbolically.  "Actual glimpses of futute events" in no way implies the images aren't symbols of what those future events mean.

 

Please note: your own statement that people are literal sparks appears to refute your point.

 

People are not literal sparks.

Why couldn't a white flame not be a literal flame?  Or a baby not be a literal baby?

 

Well written. I'm team literate baby.

What? Is it something I said?

Edited December 21, 2021 by VooDooNut
I can't read

[Andra]

So, now by what Ep.8 shows, we know the answer to the question of what baby he's holding.

We also know that Min saw a lot more about Rand than what she told Moiraine - including the very first viewing she ever had.

A viewing that also reinforces something discussed in another thread, that the show is using the Heron mark on the sword specifically as a Tam identifier rather than something with its own significance.  Though the "Dark One" seems to say that it really does mean something.

 

 

 

My biggest concern about Min and Moiraine's relationship is with the claim that the White Tower was somehow protecting her anonymity.  Even though Amalisa knew exactly who she was talking about when she mentioned the "seer."

Edited January 26, 2022 by Andra

[EmreY]

3 hours ago, Andra said:

...we know the answer to the question of what baby he's holding.

 

I don't think so.

 

3 hours ago, Andra said:

...the show is using the Heron mark on the sword specifically as a Tam identifier

 

At the moment, yes.

[Andra]

 

42 minutes ago, EmreY said:

...we know the answer to the question of what baby he's holding.

42 minutes ago, EmreY said:

I don't think so.

 

I think we do.

Given the circumstances, my impression is that it's definitely Baby Joiya.  Who is important enough to be the subject of a viewing because she's a major decision point for him.

If it was anything else, he wouldn't look as much like he does now as he does in the viewing.  If it was his child with Min, his appearance would be completely different.  And no other kid of his would have that color hair.

Edited January 27, 2022 by Andra