Prophecies, Viewings and Foreshadowing

[Lethira the second]

The trouble with that is, Elaida ordering Moiraines arrest had very little effect on her.  

[Elder_Haman]

10 hours ago, themann1086 said:

Ok, in order, Min's viewings and my thoughts. Don't think this needs spoilertext? Anyway:

• Perrin: golden eyes, blood running running down his chin. Definitely wolf related, although the blood might be more symbolic of violence
• Rand: holding a dark haired baby. Rand's gonna be a dad!
• "The girls": white flame and a ring of gold. The Flame of Tar Valon (readers know), and my first thought was a crown but other's said Lan's ring and I like that better; either works. Could also be their Aes Sedai rings
• All four: they're all linked; sparks of light trying to fill the shadows, and the shadows trying to swallow the sparks. The importance of all the Emond's Fielders working together to fight the Shadow. Pretty much word for word from the books
• Moiraine: the Amrylin Seat in full regalia will be your downfall. Wording matters; this ain't about Siuan
• Tam in her past in TV: snow and blood, a baby born on the slopes of Dragonmount, raised in a wooden house beside fields of sheep in a sleepy village between two rivers, that baby was something impossible. Self explanatory, this has happened now
• Rainbows and carnivals and three beautiful women. Min acts like she's joking BUT! The three beautiful women are the ones in Rand's polycule romantically attached to him; the rainbows could be the ones he causes in the future when his mere presence starts warping the Pattern to counter the Dark One's touch; carnivals = valan luca confirmed!
• "Do you see the Eye of the World?" "Wish I didn't. You seem like a decent person. Do I make it back? *silence*" Ok, so obviously Rand lives through this, but he's going to come back very changed and traumatized. That's my interpretation.

Thoughts?

Maybe he starts to experience LTT at the Eye? So it's not Rand that makes it back, it's Rand + LTT.

[Sabio]

17 minutes ago, Lethira the second said:

The trouble with that is, Elaida ordering Moiraines arrest had very little effect on her.  

But it could be said it was her downfall as an Aes Sedai.  Regardless of what the WT says or does, Moiraine will stay with the Dragon, but it still has to effect her.  How many years has she been an Aes Sedai only to have all of that ruined?  To be told your sisters are ordered to capture you on sight now.

[Jaysen Gore]

Pure speculation here, but if they wanted to really change things up, Moiraine could take Leane's plotline and role after the split of the tower. Would mean a lot of rework though

[ForsakenPotato]

If they do merge Elaida with Liandrin and Liandrin is still a Darkfriend, she could end up working with Lanfear against Moiraine. For example if Liandrin finds the paintings in Siuan and Moiraine's quarters, that could be the catalyst for the tower coup. Still Siuan, put on her "full regalia" and send people (maybe foresaken in disguise) to hunt down Moiraine. I kinda like that then the Amyrlin being her downfall is actually true in two ways -- her affair with Siuan the Amyrlin is her downfall because it allows Liandrin/Elaida to become the new Amyrlin and cause her harm.

Edited December 17, 2021 by ForsakenPotato

[MasterAblar]

15 hours ago, Jaysen Gore said:

And with the 3 beautiful women line, there goes my hopes for Egwelayne

 

I'm like 90% certain it will be Elayne and Aviendha who are in a relationship together as well as with Rand.

[DaddyFinn]

40 minutes ago, MasterAblar said:

 

I'm like 90% certain it will be Elayne and Aviendha who are in a relationship together as well as with Rand.

Yes. I can't see Min doing that

[chri5]

On 12/16/2021 at 8:47 PM, DigificWriter said:

Even without being a book fan, I'm pretty sure the "ring of gold" thing foreshadows Egwene's story arc.

Oh? Elaborate, please.
 

I assumed it meant Lan’s ring. 

[Chivalry]

On 12/16/2021 at 7:54 PM, TheDreadReader said:

I suspect the vision of the baby and Rand was just a subtle hint the baby was Rand.

 

Pretty sure the shadows trying to swallow the stars was their way of saying that they are all tav'veren.

Whether that gets explored at all in the show remains to be seen.

 

This line is straight from the book, I think. I remember the Baerlon scene where Min first shows up, she tells Rand something about the sparks or stars trying to fill the shadow and the shadow trying to swallow them up. The sparks (or stars) are visible to Min when the EF 5 + Moraine/Lan are together.

[DigificWriter]

28 minutes ago, chri5 said:

Oh? Elaborate, please.

 

I'm aware of how Egwene's story ends in the novels because I'm not spoiler-adverse, and so my mind immediately went directly to the one Great Serpent Ring worn by an Aes Sedai that we've seen that is only gold (since it has no stone), which is the one worn by the Amrylin.

[bringbackthomsmoustache]

27 minutes ago, Chivalry said:

This line is straight from the book, I think. I remember the Baerlon scene where Min first shows up, she tells Rand something about the sparks or stars trying to fill the shadow and the shadow trying to swallow them up. The sparks (or stars) are visible to Min when the EF 5 + Moraine/Lan are together.

Please do not forget Thom.

[VooDooNut]

On 12/16/2021 at 9:50 PM, Sabio said:

I didn't like her viewing of Rand, why is he holding the baby if that baby is him?  Her seeing Tam holding it made sense, but it means she saw Rand holding himself.  They could have come up with something better for Rand.

I actually think this might be a viewing of either Rand in Egwene's apprentice testing (unlikely since this is, afterall, a viewing of Rand not Egwene), or more likely a viewing of a moment Rand experiences, one of him holding his baby and living a normal life with Egwene, when he channels into the Portal Stone. So we might not see this moment come to pass for a little bit.

Edited December 18, 2021 by VooDooNut
typo

[chri5]

Oh I see. 
 

I assumed one vision was for Egwene and one for Nynaeve. Egwene being the flame because of her future, and Nynaeve and Lans ring. 

[DigificWriter]

^ My thought was that Min did see two visions when she looked at Nynaeve and Egwene, but that one applied to both and one applied to one of them individually, and because I knew that the Amrylin's ring had no stone and was also aware of Egwene's future, I immediately associated the "ring of gold" comment with her (Egwene) and the "white flame" comment with both her (Egwene) and Nynaeve.

[notpropaganda73]

5 hours ago, Chivalry said:

This line is straight from the book, I think. I remember the Baerlon scene where Min first shows up, she tells Rand something about the sparks or stars trying to fill the shadow and the shadow trying to swallow them up. The sparks (or stars) are visible to Min when the EF 5 + Moraine/Lan are together.

Yes, when Nynaeve finds them in Baerlon, Min says to Rand "She's part of it too" and makes some comment about the sparks being more intense when they are together, something like that. 

 

I really like Min in the show but one thing I missed from the books is how playful she was with Rand and freaking him out a little bit. 

[elteryon]

On 12/17/2021 at 12:18 AM, themann1086 said:

 

• Moiraine: the Amrylin Seat in full regalia will be your downfall. Wording matters; this ain't about Siuan
• Rainbows and carnivals and three beautiful women. Min acts like she's joking BUT! The three beautiful women are the ones in Rand's polycule romantically attached to him; the rainbows could be the ones he causes in the future when his mere presence starts warping the Pattern to counter the Dark One's touch; carnivals = valan luca confirmed!

I could still see Siuan being Moiraine's downfall. Maybe she's decked out in "full regalia" when/if the Tower splits and Moiraine's downfall follows from the subsequent interrogation. 

 

Could also see it being Elaida/Liandrin/Mesaana/Lanfear/whatever they end up doing.

 

Don't think it will be Egwene as Amrylin that brings Moiraine down.

 

My initial post jokingly called out no menageries, but Carnivals could totally be Valan Luca!

 

I like the Rainbows = Taveren Color Swirls idea.

[DaddyFinn]

Ciro on Dusty Wheel discord came up with this theory:

 

Quote

actually, if Lanfear is released because of Siuan's decision to send them to the eye, then siuan could be Moiraine's downfall without even changing much of the story at all.  A nice thing about vague prophecies is that you don't need much to fulfil them.

I like that one

[DigificWriter]

I very sincerely doubt that Siuan will be Moiraine's downfall because I think everybody involved with the show is aware of the backlash that would generate and how poisonous it would be.

[Sabio]

But again a viewing can be taken many ways, so it comes down to what is considered her "downfall".  Siuan's exiling and her wording for the exile could be considered starting Moiraine's downfall.  Since Siuan never considered she wouldn't be in power when Moiraine was finished.  Or Elaida (At least in the book) ordering Moiraine's arrest could be considered her downfall.  So the vision can be taken many ways.

Edited December 18, 2021 by Sabio

[DigificWriter]

^ I think you're reading ambiguity into Min's visions that isn't intended to be there.

[Elder_Haman]

I think the baby is Min’s. That’s the vision that means she’ll fall for Rand. Min knows what it means but doesn’t tell Moiraine. 

[DaddyFinn]

45 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

I think the baby is Min’s. That’s the vision that means she’ll fall for Rand. Min knows what it means but doesn’t tell Moiraine. 

I will cry if that's the case

[Ralph]

I'm pretty sure the baby is not meant to be a real baby, but something symbolic

 

I thought the "rainbows and carnivals and 3 beautiful women" genuinely was meant to be sarcasm, and that they're taking out the harem. I thought the whole line was a clever dig at people who would want that to be the same - that they're wishing for rainbows and unicorns. 

 

Surprised many of you thought it was a genuine vision

[DigificWriter]

13 minutes ago, Ralph said:

I'm pretty sure the baby is not meant to be a real baby, but something symbolic

 

How would that make any sense whatsoever?

 

Min's visions - as talked about and presented in the show specifically - are either real glimpses of or specific predictions about future events.

[Ralph]

14 minutes ago, DigificWriter said:

 

How would that make any sense whatsoever?

 

Min's visions - as talked about and presented in the show specifically - are either real glimpses of or specific predictions about future events.

Many of them symbolise things, and not all (in the books) have been satisfactorily explained. She says she herself often does not know what they predict