Season 1 Discussion (Full Book Spoilers) v2.1

[Agitel]

8 minutes ago, CaddySedai said:

And now the CGI maps of it are complete and you can show it again and again as needed without having to budget for the creation. 

 

Just for the re-rendering. 

 

A lot of Shadar Logoth was a physically built set. An entire street's worth of building facades.

[AusLeviathan]

The Two Rivers and Shadar Logoth both would've been very expensive sets to build for just one episode each and both episodes made extensive use of CGI.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if they ended up blowing the budget on those two episodes and then had to scale back on episode 3 and 4 in order to save the remaining budget for the later episodes.

Edited November 29, 2021 by AusLeviathan

[Agitel]

24 minutes ago, AusLeviathan said:

The Two Rivers and Shadar Logoth both would've been very expensive sets to build for just one episode each and both episodes made extensive use of CGI.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if they ended up blowing the budget on those two episodes and then had to scale back on episode 3 and 4 in order to save the remaining budget for the later episodes.

 

Breen's Spring was built from scratch, too. Plus I'm sure they'll have made some physical sets sets Tar Valon, too. Maybe even Fal Dara? But definitely Tar Valon. 

 

Edit: I'm talking about city streets and not just rooms.

Edited November 29, 2021 by Agitel

[AusLeviathan]

36 minutes ago, Agitel said:

Breen's Spring was built from scratch, too. Plus I'm sure they'll have made some physical sets sets Tar Valon, too. Maybe even Fal Dara? But definitely Tar Valon.

Breen's Spring was smaller and less detailed overall, it would've been cheap by comparison. Plus the episode didn't use much CGI compared to episode 1 and 2.

 

They definitely have spent a lot on Tar Valon though I agree and Fal Dara looks pretty good from what we've seen.

[Still Trench]

5 hours ago, Agitel said:

Something wonky just happened to the RT tomatometer. Says 86% but I counted up the reviews and should still be 72%. Will probably see this fixed soon. Or Amazon made a sizable donation to RT.

This is because of how RT weights it’s reviews, the first three episodes are at a 72% favorable, but four new reviews specifically for episode 4 have come in and and together they have a 100% favorable rating so that brings the score to 86% favorable

Edited November 29, 2021 by Still Trench

[Harad the White]

11 hours ago, Wolfbrother31 said:

The Matt misdirect was super obvious - Thom saying that he thinks he can channel.

And contrived.

[Elder_Haman]

1 minute ago, Harad the White said:

And contrived.

So you’ve said. Many times. At length. 

[bringbackthomsmoustache]

9 hours ago, itsjodie said:

For everyone who’s upset about the wacky hand movements of the Aes Sedai, I suggest you take a close look at the way Logain channels - he doesn’t move his hands. Hopefully this is on purpose (thank you Sarah, if so) but it helps to emphasize that Aes Sedai canonically use hand movement when they channel. It’s noted that Wise Ones and Athan Miere don’t use their hands and find it odd that the Aes Sedai do. So, yes, it’s irritating but it is true to the books and I’m glad they’ve laid those foundations. Logain shouldn’t use his hands when he channels because he didn’t train with the Aes Sedai and thus didn’t learn how to do weaves with his hands. I was so happy when he didn’t channel with movements because it shows that they payed attention to that haha

The book AS can be seen as prizing precise use of the power (e.g. the 100 weaves and the test) over other considerations - use of gestures/muscle memory as mnemonic devices would be a good way to achieve this.  This carries over into their general dogmatic outlook (so many things "can't" be done and trying is a waste of time, unweaving should never be attempted, no interest in N's superior healing until it is rammed down their throats).

[Harad the White]

1 hour ago, Elder_Haman said:

So you’ve said. Many times. At length. 

Lots of people argue against my point. 

Edited November 29, 2021 by Harad the White

[Scarloc99]

8 hours ago, Kudzu said:

 

I didn't know what a McGuffin was, so I looked it up. What's the McGuffin in TGH? I assume the horn? Or the dagger? Neither fit the definition I read, as both have a use in the plot in and of themselves, rather than just as motivation.

The Dagger and Horn are used simply as a way to get the characters where The author needs them to be. Yes they have a use in the plot but in the same way as the arc and holy grail from Indiana jones. The horn especially. 

[Scarloc99]

5 hours ago, AusLeviathan said:

The Two Rivers and Shadar Logoth both would've been very expensive sets to build for just one episode each and both episodes made extensive use of CGI.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if they ended up blowing the budget on those two episodes and then had to scale back on episode 3 and 4 in order to save the remaining budget for the later episodes.

Rafe has stated that Covid significantly impacted the VFX team as isolation rules meant they couldn’t have the normal review process. 
 

 

[Scarloc99]

2 hours ago, Harad the White said:

And contrived.

How is this contrived? It fits in perfectly with Thoms story and the changes Matt suffers due to Shadar Logath. Thom wasn’t at the shadow city with them in the series and Matt is displaying strange behaviour.

[Scarloc99]

5 hours ago, AusLeviathan said:

The Two Rivers and Shadar Logoth both would've been very expensive sets to build for just one episode each and both episodes made extensive use of CGI.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if they ended up blowing the budget on those two episodes and then had to scale back on episode 3 and 4 in order to save the remaining budget for the later episodes.

Shadar Logath you could see the large painted backgrounds I imagine the physical set was very very small. 

[Harad the White]

11 minutes ago, Sir_Charrid said:

How is this contrived? It fits in perfectly with Thoms story and the changes Matt suffers due to Shadar Logath. Thom wasn’t at the shadow city with them in the series and Matt is displaying strange behaviour.

As Wolfbrother31 said it's "super obvious." Thom's story does not describe Matt, yet the misdirection needs it to describe a "channeler" which Matt is not. Since Thom didn't meet Matt until after SL he wouldn't notice any changes, except what happened in the 1 day he knew Matt. The most important thing about Owyn is that he throws a rock without using his hands. Matt does nothing like that.

[AusLeviathan]

5 minutes ago, Sir_Charrid said:

Rafe has stated that Covid significantly impacted the VFX team as isolation rules meant they couldn’t have the normal review process. 

Yeah I've read about that and I have no idea what he meant.

 

Whilst WFH would've caused it to take a little longer at first due to getting use to the new situation, the post production VFX work is something that would've been among the least affected in the production due to it being something that can be done completely from home and shared easily over a conference call.

 

Plus the delays meant that the VFX team had months of extra time to work on the early episodes. If anything the early episodes should look as good as we're likely to get.

 

11 minutes ago, Sir_Charrid said:

Shadar Logath you could see the large painted backgrounds I imagine the physical set was very very small. 

The difference in quality between the large set pieces the cast are interacting with compared to the parts that are CGI is noticeable, it makes it clear there were a few large set pieces there and they wouldn't have been cheap to make given how intricate their design is. The part at the end where they're running through the city in particular would've required a fair amount of set pieces designed basically just for that scene.

 

It would've been very expensive for the 15 or so minutes it's shown, especially when you add in the cost of the VFX that Shadar Logoth required.

[Scarloc99]

49 minutes ago, AusLeviathan said:

Yeah I've read about that and I have no idea what he meant.

 

Whilst WFH would've caused it to take a little longer at first due to getting use to the new situation, the post production VFX work is something that would've been among the least affected in the production due to it being something that can be done completely from home and shared easily over a conference call.

 

Plus the delays meant that the VFX team had months of extra time to work on the early episodes. If anything the early episodes should look as good as we're likely to get.

 

The difference in quality between the large set pieces the cast are interacting with compared to the parts that are CGI is noticeable, it makes it clear there were a few large set pieces there and they wouldn't have been cheap to make given how intricate their design is. The part at the end where they're running through the city in particular would've required a fair amount of set pieces designed basically just for that scene.

 

It would've been very expensive for the 15 or so minutes it's shown, especially when you add in the cost of the VFX that Shadar Logoth required.

I asked a friend who is an editor and he has suffered the same issues, he explained that part of the editing process is getting in a room together watching on a big high quality screen and being able to talk through things. He has said that working remotely means you can do this but you lose something, he maintains the quality of editing work that relies on that interaction has suffered. He said with VFX following covid protocols instead of having one large screen viewing with producers, directors, editors and the VFX guys all together, reviewing the VFX, then letting the engineers go off, make changes, and get all those people together again, instead everyone would watch it separately and it makes that instant feedback loop longer and harder. 

 

As for the set pieces, same friend told me that you can do a lot with a small stage, he thinks that set was probably pretty small, but clever construction, shooting and editing made the same space look different from different angles. I will say watching stuff with someone who knows how the magic is done is sometimes a bad thing lol. 

[AusLeviathan]

19 minutes ago, Sir_Charrid said:

As for the set pieces, same friend told me that you can do a lot with a small stage, he thinks that set was probably pretty small, but clever construction, shooting and editing made the same space look different from different angles.

I mean the parts of the set the actors are close to an interact with look real whilst the larger background looks fake.

 

So at the very least some large building set pieces were built and some rather intricate ones at that. Unless of course the VFX team managed the difficult task of making humans against a green screen look real whilst messing up the comparatively easier background CGI.

 

Regardless though it was an expensive 15 minutes on a location we're only likely to see two more brief times in the future. A good example of the difficulty in adapting WOT which has a number of locations like this which are plot important but don't have a lot of screen time.

[Beidomon]

6 hours ago, AusLeviathan said:

Regardless though it was an expensive 15 minutes on a location we're only likely to see two more brief times in the future. A good example of the difficulty in adapting WOT which has a number of locations like this which are plot important but don't have a lot of screen time.

 

"15 minutes" (and I realize that is just an estimate) really mischaracterizes the amount of time devoted to SL. Even if the characters were "in" SL for about 15 minutes of screen time, the vast majority of that was spent sitting around in an empty hall, looking at a dagger, etc.

 

What makes SL a showpiece in the book was supposed to be Mashadar and the shadowspawn. For that, we got what - less than 2 minutes of screen time? They axed the shadowspawn completely, and Mashadar was reduced to a black mold that spreads super fast (thereby serving the purpose of rushing the scene, although I suppose a slow creep isn't as menacing when you don't have any shadowspawn to contend with). This cannot be what the showrunners intended when they devoted all that time and money to "building" SL. Just look at the at the Winternight sequence by contrast. Something must have gone terribly wrong in production. I'm guessing they ran out of time and money. It would be interesting to get an honest explanation of what happened here.

[Durzan]

So... been binge watching the series to catch up. Actually kinda like what they've done so far (But then, I never watched GoT and don't plan to, so maybe that's why...), although I am a little annoyed that they seemed to take Eliada of the Red Ajah and change her name to Liandrin. (Liandrin is a fairly bookish brown ajah with a less haughty personality).

Edited November 29, 2021 by Durzan

[themann1086]

8 minutes ago, Durzan said:

So... been binge watching the series to catch up. Actually kinda like what they've done so far (But then, I never watched GoT and don't plan to, so maybe that's why...), although I am a little annoyed that they seemed to take Eliada of the Red Ajah and change her name to Liandrin. (Liandrin is a fairly bookish brown ajah with a less haughty personality).

No they got her right. In your defense there are a LOT of named Aes Sedai in the Wheel of Time

 

https://wot.fandom.com/wiki/Liandrin_Guirale

[Guest Wolfbrother31]

1 hour ago, Durzan said:

So... been binge watching the series to catch up. Actually kinda like what they've done so far (But then, I never watched GoT and don't plan to, so maybe that's why...), although I am a little annoyed that they seemed to take Eliada of the Red Ajah and change her name to Liandrin. (Liandrin is a fairly bookish brown ajah with a less haughty personality).

 

I believe Liandrin is the Red who is actually a 

Spoiler

Black Ajah

 

who also

 

Spoiler

Puts Rand in a box when they catch him

 

Unless my memory has failed me? 

I think that who you are thinking of is Verin Sedai. And I do hope we get her in S2! 

[Elder_Haman]

1 hour ago, Beidomon said:

What makes SL a showpiece in the book was supposed to be Mashadar and the shadowspawn. For that, we got what - less than 2 minutes of screen time?

I'm pretty sure Rafe has confirmed that we will be getting more scenes of things that happened in SL.

 

Though I do agree that they missed an opportunity to have a way cooler sequence. Mostly for me it just has to do with the way they chose to depict Mashadar. A little bit is pacing. But I think we will still see more of SL in Season 1.

[MasterAblar]

7 minutes ago, Wolfbrother31 said:

 

I believe Liandrin is the Red who is actually a 

  Hide contents

Black Ajah

 

who also

 

  Hide contents

Puts Rand in a box when they catch him

 

Unless my memory has failed me? 

I think that who you are thinking of is Verin Sedai. And I do hope we get her in S2! 

 

No 

 

Spoiler

Galina puts Rand in a box, Liandrin hands Egwene to the Seanchan then escapes to Tear, and later Tarabon.

 

[flinn]

nm

Edited November 29, 2021 by flinn

[Durzan]

Damn. You're right, I was thinking of Verin. It has been a while since I read the books or listened to them...