Comparing Wheel of Time to other fantasy adaptations

[ForsakenPotato]

I'm going to finish His Dark Materials at some point (still haven't see the season 2 finale and season 3 isn't out yet), but I agree for some reason it doesn't hold my attention the way the books did, which is shame because I think most of the casting (apart from Lee Scoresby who got turned into cheesy comic relief) is pretty good.

 

It's interesting looking back on show or movie adaptions that are older too. For example, I didn't love most of the Harry Potter movies when they came out. Now if they are streaming or on an airplane or something I'll watch and I find them fun and comforting and nostalgic, and I care less about the details and just enjoy a visit to Hogwarts (I'm in my early 30s so sorta grew up with the books). It's a little less fun now with JK Rowling frequently being in the news because of her tweets, but you get the idea.

 

One book series I loved growing up that could be a really cool TV or movie adaption is the Abhorsen trilogy by Garth Nix. I don't think it will get adapted because as far as I know it wasn't nearly as popular as WoT or GoT or Harry Potter or LotR, and it has some aspects that would be really challenging to do effectively on-screen. But it has some really cool worldbuilding and is focused on a small enough set of characters and places that it could make a great miniseries.

[Sabio]

3 hours ago, Gothic Flame said:

I was told Keifer was spot on as Raistlin. 

From what I remember the voices weren't bad, just the animation seemed pretty weak.

[TheDreadReader]

13 hours ago, Sabio said:

Ahh the original dragonlance books would be amazing to see as a series.  They made a bad cartoon of Dragonlance once.

 

There was that D&D cartoon series back in the 80's too.

 

I have fond memories of it actually.  My middle school attempt at a hardcare/thrash/crossover band got its name from it. ?  (Tiamat)

 

 

 

[grayavatar]

I have been wondering about whether Lan was specifically cast as not blue-eyed and grey haired as he is described in the books, because of similarities to The Witcher show.

[wotfan4472]

One book series that needs to be done well is The Dark Is Rising Sequence. A collection of 5 books that all deal with a threat. 

The movie attempt dealt with book 2 and it was nothing like the book. It was worse that Voyage Of The Dawn Treader.

At least that had all the adventures that Caspian and crew deal with, just not with the same purpose. Seeker had at most a tiny amount.

Even the Black Rider was wrong.

[Agitel]

7 hours ago, wotfan4472 said:

One book series that needs to be done well is The Dark Is Rising Sequence. A collection of 5 books that all deal with a threat. 

The movie attempt dealt with book 2 and it was nothing like the book. It was worse that Voyage Of The Dawn Treader.

At least that had all the adventures that Caspian and crew deal with, just not with the same purpose. Seeker had at most a tiny amount.

Even the Black Rider was wrong.

 

Is it wrong that I can quote the entire prophetic song they had? There were two, but I only remember one... with three verses.

[ArrylT]

On 12/8/2021 at 7:07 PM, Sabio said:

Sadly they did.  

 

Dragonlance: Dragons of Autumn Twilight

This is the animated feature film version of the first book in the Chronicles series. Starring Kiefer Sutherland, Lucy Lawless, and Michael Rosenbaum.

Forgot to mention,  but perhaps you already knew, my name comes from a character in Dragonlance. ?

[wotfan4472]

14 hours ago, Agitel said:

 

Is it wrong that I can quote the entire prophetic song they had? There were two, but I only remember one... with three verses.

Yeah, I do the same with the verses. I love it, because those verses serve as prophecies.

[Chivalry]

On 11/27/2021 at 7:55 PM, Harad the White said:

Here's one we may never see: Thomas Covenant, The Unbeliever, by Stephan R. Donaldson.

 

These are a very dark, interesting trilogy of trilogies, with the last trilogy containing 4 books. The total of 13 books, all reasonably tome-ish beats RJ, but loses to the RJ/BS collaboration.

 

The "hero" is the face you see, when you look up anti-hero in the dictionary. The worlds are amazing, with incredibly inventive rules and inhabitants. WoT proves that it's possible to start (let's see the finish) such an ambitious task with the CGI advances and the billionaire money available now. But the tone of Thomas Covenant, may put off the money people, until all hope is lost.

This series will always hold a special place in my heart...discovered the first trilogy soon after the books came out, as a young teen. I'm not sure I've ever read a less derivative, more unique fantasy series.

I agree - it will probably never be adapted. Any adaptation would likely require erasure of the events that led our anti-hero on his path to self-loathing and regret. 

[Kalessin]

I've been wondering why nobody's mentioned M John Harrison's Viriconium stories yet? I would love to see The Pastel City and A Storm of Wings - I haven't read In Viriconium yet.

 

Just imagine, a "better poet than a swordsman" named tegeus-Cromis, a dwarf techie called Tomb, an airboatman named Benedict Paucemanly who's stuck on the Moon until he isn't, and at first, a very physical threat, then later an eerie, non-physical threat ... and a beautiful Queen named Methvet Nian, opposed by her cousin Canna Moidart. Stuff of legends - so why hasn't it been made yet?

[Daenelia]

Actually, and we may need a seperate thread on which shows we would like to see in addition to WoT... But KJ Parker's (Tom Holt) Engineer trilogy or any other book, that would be an interesting TV show.

 

Any book really, because I really enjoy the way he tells stories.

 

Did I mention David Gemmell yet? Also good.

 

And is the time finally right for Tad Williams? Am I correct in thinking Tailchaser's Song will be made into a film? Why yes ... https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2125634/

I am pleased ?

[ArrylT]

Haha I have no doubt that most of us have several dozen different fantasy novels / series that we'd love to see adapted.   

 

On topic - this was already posted in another thread but sharing it here since it will be less likely to be buried (in a 40+ page thread):

 

https://www.theonering.com/complete-list-of-film-changes/

 

Just so people can be aware of and compare how voluminous the changes to LOTR films were.     

[ArrylT]

And here are some links for those curious about the changes between GOT & ASofIaF

 

https://gameofthrones.fandom.com/wiki/Differences_between_books_and_TV_series

 

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/game-thrones-10-major-changes-861830/

[DojoToad]

46 minutes ago, ArrylT said:

Haha I have no doubt that most of us have several dozen different fantasy novels / series that we'd love to see adapted.   

 

On topic - this was already posted in another thread but sharing it here since it will be less likely to be buried (in a 40+ page thread):

 

https://www.theonering.com/complete-list-of-film-changes/

 

Just so people can be aware of and compare how voluminous the changes to LOTR films were.     

Changes in and of themselves are not 'evil'.  I was good or great with most of the changes in LotR - because they were done well and/or made sense.  I think we're missing that with WoT.

[ArrylT]

5 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

Changes in and of themselves are not 'evil'.  I was good or great with most of the changes in LotR - because they were done well and/or made sense.  I think we're missing that with WoT.

 

Absolutely.    Change is just that change - how it is perceived is up to each of us.   For some (say C. Tolkien) it could be deemed 'evil' but for the majority after reviewing the entire film series, they were deemed either 'good' or acceptable.

 

My point in sharing the posts isnt to suggest GOT or LOTR changes were evil or bad rather that there were a lot more adjustments made than it might appear at a glance - much like with WoT in the sense that if you look at the tapestry from a distance it looks almost exactly the same, but the closer you get the more focus on the adjustments.  But that is up to each to determine.   

 

The changes in WoT are a lot more fresh, and obviously still underway, which makes it a lot hard to judge objectively and only subjectively.    And of course how they are seen by people 10-20-30 years from now will likely be quite different, and be quite dependent on how long & how well the show does.     

[ArrylT]

https://winteriscoming.net/2018/06/01/see-results-thorough-song-ice-fire-game-thrones-fan-survey/

 

https://www.scotsman.com/arts-and-culture/film-and-tv/game-thrones-finale-fans-left-divided-over-plot-twist-546562

 

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/the-real-reason-fans-hate-the-last-season-of-game-of-thrones/

 

Article(s) on how divided fans of GOT / SOIAF fans were with some GOT plots.   

 

Edit:  Added a couple of extra articles and an additional thought

 

"Game of Thrones, in its eighth and final season, is as big as television gets these days. More than 17 million people watched the season’s opening."

 

Does anyone know if this is American or world wide?    

Edited December 13, 2021 by ArrylT

[ArrylT]

13 minutes ago, Dead Warder said:

I've been burning my grey cells trying to figure this out... I'm an old school fan of Dragonlance but I'm not able to solve this puzzle... yet.

 

I'll give a clue - its an anthology character (an earlier one pre 1995) - not a character from a series or stand-alone Dragonlance book.  

[Kalessin]

For what it's worth, it would be an interesting task to compare and contrast various other many and varied interpretations of other novels, such as the various interpretations of Fenimore Cooper's  The Last of the Mohicans, which when I last looked, had at least one during the 1920s-1940s period, a silent film made in 1932, then a BBC TV series made in 1971 (quite a nice one), then a film made in 1977, then the one featuring C Day Lewis in 1992, which I've seen and quite enjoyed - though I don't recall much of it at this late stage; I'll have to see it again.

 

That should answer a good many of the questions, doubts, reservations, etc, made about film and TV series adaptions of novels.

[SinisterDeath]

6 hours ago, Kalessin said:

For what it's worth, it would be an interesting task to compare and contrast various other many and varied interpretations of other novels, such as the various interpretations of Fenimore Cooper's  The Last of the Mohicans, which when I last looked, had at least one during the 1920s-1940s period, a silent film made in 1932, then a BBC TV series made in 1971 (quite a nice one), then a film made in 1977, then the one featuring C Day Lewis in 1992, which I've seen and quite enjoyed - though I don't recall much of it at this late stage; I'll have to see it again.

 

That should answer a good many of the questions, doubts, reservations, etc, made about film and TV series adaptions of novels.

True Blood & Dexter were two very popular ones before GoT. From what I understand, both heavily diverged from the novels... possibly within the first season.

 

Forest Gump was wildly popular and diverged quite a bit. (So I'm told)

 

The Shining by Kubrick is a cult classic hated by Stephen King.

Jurassic Park is a pretty loose adaptation of the books.

[ArrylT]

9 hours ago, Dead Warder said:

Anthologies I never delved into too much, or atleast consciously - perhaps because I never fully understood what truly made an anthology. I mean, I was all about Chronicles, Preludes, Legends, Heroes, Tales - applicably both I & II. Some more standalone-ish like The Qualinesti, Knights of the Crown & a few Spelljammer crossovers. But no Dragons Anthologies or the like.

 

However, I'm not giving up. There may be hope for me yet (insert doubt here).

 

Well according to Wiki at least, 1 of those mentioned is considered an anthology.   And the character does come from one of the 5 dragonlances you mentioned, so you're getting warmer.  

 

And yay I read the Spelljammer crossover as well.   I'm not quite sure where my Dragonlance novels are - my bookshelves are usually double or triple stacked (if paperback).   Rest assured my WoT books are all easily accessible. ?

[Frenata]

2 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

Jurassic Park is a pretty loose adaptation of the books.

 

 

Yeah, *super* loose and just as good or arguably better than the source material.

 

IMO, the best adaptations take this approach. Another example is Blade Runner. A counter-example is Watchmen, which tried for high-fidelity to the source (right down to filmed shots that are basically a perfect replication of a pane in the novel) and came out pretty miserable for it relative to the source material.

 

Another spin on this general topic of adaptations are "unfilmable" novels/stories. Of course WoT itself was once thought to be in that category before the era of large prestige TV budgets, but I always thought (and still think) that Ender's Game was a good example since so much of the novel is interior to Ender's mind. Asimov's "The Gods Themselves" might fall into this category for different reasons.

[Jaysen Gore]

8 hours ago, Kalessin said:

For what it's worth, it would be an interesting task to compare and contrast various other many and varied interpretations of other novels, such as the various interpretations of Fenimore Cooper's  The Last of the Mohicans, which when I last looked, had at least one during the 1920s-1940s period, a silent film made in 1932, then a BBC TV series made in 1971 (quite a nice one), then a film made in 1977, then the one featuring C Day Lewis in 1992, which I've seen and quite enjoyed - though I don't recall much of it at this late stage; I'll have to see it again.

 

That should answer a good many of the questions, doubts, reservations, etc, made about film and TV series adaptions of novels.

People regularly do Masters Theses of this kind of analysis. Sherlock Holmes is a frequent target for it, as are the classic monsters - Frank, Drac, Wolfie, The Invisible Man - ones that get remade generationally. They normally tie it in with the socio-cultural climate of the time and how the current environment drives emphasis on certain aspects of the story, while minimizing others (cough, Green Warder behaviour, cough). It's great for all the traditional social sciences (psych, soc, anthro, poli sci), and okay for the more modern TV watching degrees

 

It's a good way to look at culture, since the object being observed (the original story) is constant, and what changes is the people interpreting it, and the audience they are interpreting it for.  And even psychology, since what people end up emphasizing reveals a great deal about how they think as individuals.

 

 

[Frenata]

5 minutes ago, Jaysen Gore said:

People regularly do Masters Theses of this kind of analysis. Sherlock Holmes is a frequent target for it, as are the classic monsters - Frank, Drac, Wolfie, The Invisible Man - ones that get remade generationally. They normally tie it in with the socio-cultural climate of the time and how the current environment drives emphasis on certain aspects of the story, while minimizing others (cough, Green Warder behaviour, cough). It's great for all the traditional social sciences (psych, soc, anthro, poli sci), and okay for the more modern TV watching degrees

 

It's a good way to look at culture, since the object being observed (the original story) is constant, and what changes is the people interpreting it, and the audience they are interpreting it for.  And even psychology, since what people end up emphasizing reveals a great deal about how they think as individuals.

 

 

 

 

Also good targets: Shakespeare and Beowulf.

[Gothic Flame]

11 hours ago, Dead Warder said:

Anthologies I never delved into too much, or atleast consciously - perhaps because I never fully understood what truly made an anthology. I mean, I was all about Chronicles, Preludes, Legends, Heroes, Tales - applicably both I & II. Some more standalone-ish like The Qualinesti, Knights of the Crown & a few Spelljammer crossovers. But no Dragons Anthologies or the like.

 

The first three; 

 

 

These made for some damn good reading...

[Masha]

On 11/28/2021 at 7:06 PM, Harad the White said:

Not fantasy, but SF. 

Foundation by Isaac Asimov. I don't have Hulu? so haven't seen it. Any viewers or reviews?

I watched, light help me I did. Some of you think that Rafe butchered WoT? Its NOTHING compared with what was done to Foundation story!

However production quality is way beyond WOT, Expanse level or higher. Story, if you accept that producers just took general outline of books and run with it, is actually OK too .