How did the show hold up for non-fans watching with you?

[EmreY]

1 hour ago, ArrylT said:

I do not think we need to rehash the fact that a lot of LOTR fans were upset with the changes to the films other to say that the parallels are pretty similar

 

When the first teaseriest of trailers came out (and which of course I downloaded, slowly, on my blindingly fast 115kps connection), and the scene of Boromir dangling the Ring flashed, there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth.  (For obvious reasons.)  The internet was full of invective against American studio execs ruining the books (we hadn't even seen the films yet!), the madness of Peter Jackson (how could someone who claimed to be a Tolkien fan direct this obvious travesty?), etc.  We also projected our thoughts of how the films would be structured based on a less-than-two-minute clip (all of which turned out to be wrong). 

 

Any of this sound familiar?  (And it was all much more one-sided than even the commentary on this thread. ? )

 

We all queued up to watch the film, of course, and things changed.  Yes, i,ncreasing liberties were taken, but it was enjoyanle nonetheless.

 

But while the LoTR films are, I think, qualitatively very different to this first season of WoT, I'm still willing to take a chance on this series.  IMO, the WoT is much more difficult to adapt than LoTR, and as I didn't give up on RJ when the first book came out, I won't give up on this series now.

 

But the next three books are amongst the strongest and/or have the possibility for grand visual storytelling.  If the second series doesn't deliver, then I may well become indifferent to the rest.

Edited January 2, 2022 by EmreY

[Tamal]

The changes made to The Lord of the Rings are miniscule compared to the complete rewriting we have seen in season one of the WoT-show. I was an absolute nerd about the Tolkien books and remembered even the most ridiculous details from the books, including Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales and the other less known ones. I remember being shakingly nervous when going to the cinema to see the first one.

 

I loved it. They had removed inconsequential things to focus on the core of the story, and all the characters had their personalities intact. I still found the main characters from the book in the movie appealing, and none had their reputations damaged or big scenes taken away. 

 

In the WoT-show on the other hand, we have the equivalent of Legolas taking down the Balrog in Moria instead of Gandalf. And it's just the tip of an iceberg of disgraceful decisions made by the showrunners. A crying shame. 

[EmreY]

8 hours ago, Tamal said:

In the WoT-show on the other hand, we have the equivalent of Legolas taking down the Balrog in Moria instead of Gandalf. And it's just the tip of an iceberg of disgraceful decisions made by the showrunners. A crying shame. 

 

This and the other points you raise I'd be happy to discuss elsewhere.  You are wrong ? , but I think we'e derailed this thread enough.  If you like, open a new thread and we'll continue there.

[Skipp]

Just got a text from my mother this morning;

"Just to let you know, Steph(family friend) and I are hooked on Wheel of Time"

 

I actually burst out with laughter.  They are both in their late 60's.

 

I did suggest the show to her a couple times around the premier.

[Daenelia]

I am geeking out over possible castings and I am not allowed to talk about it with my non-reader guy. My guy is insistent nothing spoilery comes his was. And I am notoriusly bad at not spoiling. I am doing well in this case.

 

He is eager to watch s2, so as a whole the show for him has been a success.

[Mrs. Yojimbo]

On 12/26/2021 at 1:54 PM, Gypsum said:

Non-book reading OH was baffled by the opening scene with Lews Therin and even more baffled by Ishamael. "Is he the Dark One? What?? Really??" Expecting the Dark One to be a little scarier than a dude with a beard, vaguely dressed like a rabbi.

 

I gave him the short-and-sweet cliffnotes on the War of Power, Lews Therin, and the Forsaken, adding, "So he's not the Dark One. He's just a guy. One of the most powerful channelers ever, who's over 3000 years old and causes a lot of hassle, but still, just a guy."

 

The impression I get from OH is that if you didn't know what was going on, you wouldn't know what was going on, and the show isn't properly investing viewers in the stakes or the characters, or explaining clearly why various aspects of their world -- i.e. the bifurcation of the One Power, Lews Therin himself, the seals, a bunch of other stuff -- really matter.

 

Just adding my "Me too" to this.

[rowdie]

So, AT WHAT POINT,  do you quit watching the TV series??  are the changes just too much??   Is there Line?   If so what is it??  Has it been crossed already?

[Elder_Haman]

42 minutes ago, rowdie said:

So, AT WHAT POINT,  do you quit watching the TV series??  are the changes just too much??   Is there Line?   If so what is it??  Has it been crossed already?

When I don't like it anymore.

No.

Maybe?

No idea.

No.

[Jaysen Gore]

2 hours ago, rowdie said:

So, AT WHAT POINT,  do you quit watching the TV series??  are the changes just too much??   Is there Line?   If so what is it??  Has it been crossed already?

When it bores me - love or hate is better than indifferent

Not at all

Yes, there is a line.  It probably entails assigning EF5 plotlines (not moments, but entire plots) to different characters. So, for example, Egwene as DR would have been over it. Nynaeve as a Wolfmother, or Lan with the Dagger. 

No, it hasn't been crossed; as I've said repeatedly, I think I can see what they're doing, and can speculate why they're doing it. So until I lose touch with their possible logic - as I did with GoT - I'll stay involved.

[Raal Gurniss]

6 hours ago, rowdie said:

So, AT WHAT POINT,  do you quit watching the TV series??  are the changes just too much??   Is there Line?   If so what is it??  Has it been crossed already?

I stopped about 5 minutes into episode 8….Enough was enough….I gave it a good go despite not liking most of it I even tempered myself by going into it with low expectations.

 

It may have been better if I hadn’t read the books, but honestly I went into it objectively and I don’t think I would like it much more even then, it is a bit of a mess IMHO.

[nsmallw]

On 11/20/2021 at 11:09 AM, 2RiversFan said:

I've been trying to get 15 year old daughter to read WoT for about 4 years now.  She never got past chapter 4 of EotW even though she's a voracious reader.  She likes the show.  Her mother (my ex) loves the show and can't wait for more episodes.

Tell her to push through chapter 10 and she should be hooked ?  Also, tell her that there are multiple times in the series that you've just got to push through. Persistence is a virtue. 

[Andra]

So I have kind of an odd follow-up question for this thread.

 

Because of when and where it aired, Game of Thrones attracted a huge number of fans who knew nothing about the book series it was based on.  They hadn't gotten any word-of-mouth ideas from friends and family who had read them.  Many didn't even know such a book series existed.

 

Most of the people responding here have been book fans who'd been talking about the books for years, and whose friends and family watched the show specifically because they told them about it.

 

I have family members who heard about the show, but hadn't heard me talking about the books.  So far as I know, they still haven't watched it, because they weren't interested.  Even though they enjoyed things like GOT, LOTR and the Mandalorian.

 

And the question:

 

Do you know of anyone who watched it without having been encouraged to by a book fan?

Edited January 28, 2022 by Andra

[Juan Farstrider]

I'm responding to the original question: They couldn't really follow the show. That could be due to all the yelling I did at the TV, but I think it's Rafe's fault. 

/s /not-really-but-kinda

[AdamA]

My wife is no longer a non-reader as she's now halfway through Fires of Heaven, but she still enjoyed it and continues to, even rewatching a few times. I'll at least stick around for season two, but she's a lot more enthusiastic than me and seems to think it's legitimately a compelling show.

 

Any project like this inevitably produces a third class of person - those who didn't read before seeing the adaptation, but eventually did. Their first reaction can't be along the lines of "wow, this is nothing like the books, complete shit." I was like this with Game of Thrones. I read the books, but not until after watching and enjoying the first season. I noticed plenty of differences, some of which pissed me off a little in retrospect, especially the depiction of Khal Drogo, but it still can't change my original response, which was mostly woah, this is a pretty compelling detective thriller. Ned's totally gonna out these self-righteous jackasses who killed Jon Arryn to cover up their incest. That was completely wrong, but still a good hook for a television show.

 

I'd love to see some poll of all non-readers to see how many were actually hooked by the "who is the dragon" mystery. It obviously meant nothing to me and felt like a waste of time trying to ape the popularity of Game of Thrones based on a detective storyline in the first season, but I can never possibly have an untainted view. It feels like it misses the point somewhat of what makes the entire series effective to me, though. There are a few big reveals, especially Rand's flashbacks in Rhuidean, but a lot of the other ones (everyone is Black Ajah, all world leaders are Forsaken) start to get pretty repetitive. What works really well in the books isn't mysteries revealed to the readers. It's that the characters are constantly wrong about each other, seeing how much human conflict is stupid and unnecessary because none of the characters ever know the full truth and don't believe or trust each other and cling so tightly to dogma. But the reader usually knows that. It makes for a really poignant form of dramatic irony that doesn't rely upon the reader being kept in the dark.

[Jake Sykwalker]

9 hours ago, Andra said:

 

And the question:

 

 

Do you know of anyone who watched it without having been encouraged to by a book fan?

 

Yes, my wife's dad watched the show.  He didn't like it very much.  Thought it was boring and he is a non book reader who likes fantasy shows.  Don't know of anybody else I've talked to that admitted to watching it. 

 

Though I told a friend I was excited to watch WOT before it started and he said to not get your hopes up after shows like Shanara and Foundation being awful adaptations.  

[Cauthonfan4]

I got my gf into the books before the show came out.

She likes the books and dislikes the show.

 

Her parents dropped it after episode 7 calling it a teenage drama set in a fantasy world. 

 

A friend from work watched it and liked it. He got the first book and read it and liked the book more and then rewatched the show and is now boggled about why they changed stuff.

Another friend watched it and liked it but won't read the books. "Thr show was decent but not good enough for me to want to continue".

 

Another coworker watched it and liked it but wondered why so many men were incompetent and why thr women were badass, saying it really made her mad that there wasn't more equality.

Edited January 28, 2022 by Cauthonfan4

[noodlemans]

My wife, who is not a book reader, and I (I've read it multiple times) watched the show and both enjoyed it through episode 4. At that point I started to nitpick and by the time we reached the finale, I was pretty upset with the changes. My wife, on the other hand, continued to enjoy it until the end, however when it was over she had no idea of the core concepts of the show. For example, she had no idea that their were two halves of the True Source, or what the Dark One was supposed to be, or who the Dragon is supposed to be. I think the show did a terrible job with the lore and broke its own rules over and over. They wasted a lot of time on manufactured plot lines that went nowhere. I'm willing to give it a pass in some areas due to the Covid shutdowns and Barney Harris leaving forcing last minute rewrites, but the writing was just so average to me. My wife enjoyed the show much more than me but she's very confused by a lot of it.

[Cauthonfan4]

12 minutes ago, noodlemans said:

My wife enjoyed the show much more than me but she's very confused by a lot of it

This Is what I'm seeing. A lot of I like it but it's confusing and frustrated over it and don't want to continue.

[Pembie]

On 1/12/2022 at 2:01 PM, nsmallw said:

Tell her to push through chapter 10 and she should be hooked ?  Also, tell her that there are multiple times in the series that you've just got to push through. Persistence is a virtue. 

The series I find is very slow I don’t think it’s the best story ever but it has some good characters Matt is my favourite I’m trying to finish it though even though it’s kind of overwhelming at times to follow but I like to finish things

 

 

 

 

[Pembie]

13 hours ago, Cauthonfan4 said:

This Is what I'm seeing. A lot of I like it but it's confusing and frustrated over it and don't want to continue.

I find that about the books too very confusing everything with the white tower is pretty confusing  Logain I find his story confusing as well 

Edited January 29, 2022 by Pembie

[wastingtime]

My in-laws (non-readers of the series, & in the FIL's case novels in general) quite liked it. There are bits that they didn't get - male/female parts of the one power, the bad guy not being THE BAD GUY etc - but they seemed to mostly see these as a mystery for later rather than an immediately confusing problem. They watch a fair bit of TV and, without being down with the technical terminology, know what they like and are happy to quit series midway through if they aren't consistently interesting/enjoyable. They fact they watched it the whole way through and want to know what happens next shows the Series (even Ep. 8!!!) maybe isn't as bad subjectively as some of us fans initially felt. 

 

My wife watched the first episode with me, couldn't get into it - at the time she said she didn't feel up to concentrating on the intro/set up to an epic series - and hasn't felt the need to re try as of yet though.  

[Raezold]

Of the big group who started watching only one person finished the series and he's like 'what the hell have I actually been watching? So much stuff doesn't make sense.' He probably won't continue with season 2.

The others just gave up along the way because either of it not making much sense and/or the bad quality.

[Scarloc99]

On 1/12/2022 at 2:01 PM, nsmallw said:

Tell her to push through chapter 10 and she should be hooked ?  Also, tell her that there are multiple times in the series that you've just got to push through. Persistence is a virtue. 

I mean while I agree, that advice also puts alot of people off reading them. 
 

pretty much everyone I know has now binged the series and they all watched episodes 1-8. Largely feedback had been very positive. 

[Andra]

Interestingly enough, the first true confusion that cropped up in a conversation I had with a non-reader who watched the show was about the name of our protagonists' hometown.  He has a kind of hobbyist's interest in set design (he's done some community theater stuff), and I asked him his opinion about the design of Emond's Field.

He didn't know what I was talking about.

When I told him it's the name of the town where the trolloc attack happened, he said, "No it isn't, that's 'Two Rivers.'  Didn't you watch?"

 

So I showed him Amazon's bonus materials, and he was completely baffled.

[Scarloc99]

19 minutes ago, Andra said:

Interestingly enough, the first true confusion that cropped up in a conversation I had with a non-reader who watched the show was about the name of our protagonists' hometown.  He has a kind of hobbyist's interest in set design (he's done some community theater stuff), and I asked him his opinion about the design of Emond's Field.

He didn't know what I was talking about.

When I told him it's the name of the town where the trolloc attack happened, he said, "No it isn't, that's 'Two Rivers.'  Didn't you watch?"

 

So I showed him Amazon's bonus materials, and he was completely baffled.

I mean I get why this may irritate people but, I am not really that bothered it doesn't "break? the story if the name of the town (is it a town or a village) isn't clear.