How did the show hold up for you?

[Quiksilver]

I think it's terrible, but is tolerable if seen as a comedy.

 

for instance, nynaeve in the cave screeches loudly. with his ears in pain, the Creator heals all the wounded so she will stop shrieking. No skill or demonstration of talent, just raw shrieking. lmao

 

 

[Gothic Flame]

I have to have an account for that poll?

Hard pass.

[Deviations]

On 12/21/2021 at 6:51 AM, king of nowhere said:

sanderson is widely recognized as one of the best fantasy writers of this generation. if he was not good enough for you, nobody would ever have been.

I think Sanderson did a credible job.  Very tight spot for someone to come in and finish this series.

[Ryrin]

On 12/20/2021 at 12:42 PM, Elder_Haman said:

I'm going to go ahead and take Harriet's word for what RJ would or would not approved of. Her statements on the show have been positive. But I'm sorry you aren't enjoying the series.

What else would she say? I get that she didn’t like the sneaky middle of the night 30 minute show but why would she publicly torpedo an Amazon series?

[Gothic Flame]

13 minutes ago, Ryrin said:

What else would she say? I get that she didn’t like the sneaky middle of the night 30 minute show but why would she publicly torpedo an Amazon series?

She can't say anything...yet.

She's in the same situation that Jim Butcher was in when Dresden Files" was turned into a show. 

[RhienneAgain]

7 hours ago, Deviations said:

I think Sanderson did a credible job.  Very tight spot for someone to come in and finish this series.

My first exposure to Sanderson was through the end of WoT. I remember thinking (completely unfairly looking back on it) what a mediocre writer he must be as he'd struggled to capture Mat, you could clearly feel the styles were different, etc..

 

When I actually read some of his own books over the last couple of years I was so impressed at the depth of his characters, and the fascination of his plots. Made me realise what a tough job it must have been to finish WoT.

[Spiritweaver1]

8 hours ago, Deviations said:

I think Sanderson did a credible job.  Very tight spot for someone to come in and finish this series.

I agree.  Although I was floored by his and Harriets decision to add 3 books.  14 volumes takes some serious commitment.  The slog is why TLOTR is still my favorite fantasy series although WOT is right behind.  I just finished LOC last night.  It's the one good thing about my memory going.  In a few years it will be like I am reading it for the first time.  How great will that be.  ?

[Ryrin]

2 hours ago, Gothic Flame said:

She can't say anything...yet.

She's in the same situation that Jim Butcher was in when Dresden Files" was turned into a show. 

Exactly my point.

[Bang bang]

So far this season I am enjoying it for a show. I don't really think of it as wot sadly. I like it, but it could be so much better. I just feel the writing is okay. Nothing really has me on edge as far as writing goes. Even with all the changes, both good and bad. It's just an okay show. I just feel that when it comes to fantasy shows this feels more akin to a show like Xena warrior princess and not the epic we deserve.

 

For instance, do you feel that hbo did got justice with the show it presented. Did it Garner a multitude of new fans who may not like fantasy? I'd say it did. Do you feel two seasons in that Netflix is doing The Witcher series justice? I do. It is pretty good writing, and has a good mix of the actual story and new stuff. It's suspenful. Furthermore, the writing is good 

 

Imo I feel the writing of this show is terrible. I like and accept the casting, I feel the actors will grow nicely into each character with time. But right now, it's just like each episode has me going "wtf was that?" And not "damn I can't wait until next week. I guess that overall I don't feel this show so far is doing Jordan/Sanderson justice. 

[VooDooNut]

I think you make a great case for how The Witcher and The Wheel of Time contrast one another and I couldn't agree more that they do!

 

I've not read The Witcher books, so I can't compare the show against them in the same way, but I really enjoy watching The Wheel Of Time as a book reader. There is a delicate amount of nuance in this show, I agree, and sometimes that can lose the audience. But I think upon multiple viewings and having the books to draw from and help connect the dots, WOT offers the opportunity to savor an adaption of Robert Jordan's works in a much more subtle/intimate way then perhaps how The Witcher goes about it. I think the Egwene-Perrin-Rand "Bermuda" Love Triangle is a great example of this. Initially, it's super duper confusing! I was confused by it. I think there's more to it than a simple dramatic moment, edit: and only more analysis of the show and the books will reveal what this scene is trying to convey.

 

Does this benefit the TV/non-book reader on first watch? No, I don't think so. Especially on first viewing, I think a lot of the brilliance of each episode and how the characters interact can be missed by the viewer, but I want that brilliance to be embedded in each episode even if I don't pick up on it the first time so that I can find it upon subsequent viewings and guidance from the books. So if it a) encourages the audience to read the books and b) is strengthened in turn by an understanding of the books then I think it's a worthy long-term vision and strategy for the show runners. I'd rather the show complement the books, and vice versa, than to have them exist isolated from one another.

 

The Witcher is easy to follow episode-by-episode, but I feel like a lot of the emoting is done through words and less through body language, eye contact, and tone. Which is fine! It definitely is a technique for telling a story, and I think it has its strengths, but it feels very different to WOTs approach in television form, and I favor the former technique.

 

There are other aspects of each show that I could compare, but I don't want to sidetrack the conversation in that direction. Suffice it to say, I'm so grateful to have two shows being produced at the same time, of similar genre and theme to compare and analyze, and I've enjoyed the episode of The Witcher (all of season one and most of season 2) that I've seen.

Edited December 23, 2021 by VooDooNut
added on to bottom of 2nd paragraph

[johnnysd]

On 12/21/2021 at 4:51 AM, king of nowhere said:

sanderson is widely recognized as one of the best fantasy writers of this generation. if he was not good enough for you, nobody would ever have been.

 

 

Sanderson's own books are very solid. I do not necessarily agree that he was the best choice to take over. He was a huge fan, and his style is very similar to Jordan's and he can write incredibly fast so I totally get why he was chosen. 

 

But I think his WoT books are pretty poor.. I personally don't even consider them cannon to be honest.

 

I think the biggest issue is what you wrote in your first line, namely that Sanderson is of a completely different generation. Sanderson and Jordan have such completely different life experiences and fundamental view on the world. And it shows in the books.

 

In terms of the show I am in the "like" category. I think a lot of changes made sense but some of the latest changes seem unnecessary and have far reaching consequences. I do expect an uptick in Season2, TGH is probably the easiest book to adapt, but how much will they retain.

 

I understand how Rafe and his team made changes from a budget-down standpoint but I think they should have instead listed and rated the scenes for maybe the first 4 seasons on how important they are to be included and then worked up. There would still be a lot of changes but doing it that way would have retained more of the core worldbuilding and fantasy elements than the way they went.

 

 

[Gothic Flame]

I'm already reading about episode 8. It seems someone from the other side of the world was able to watch it.

 

If it's accurate...?

[fra85uk]

Yeah leaks are everywhere and  they don't seem any good

[Elder_Haman]

15 hours ago, Ryrin said:

What else would she say? I get that she didn’t like the sneaky middle of the night 30 minute show but why would she publicly torpedo an Amazon series?

She doesn’t have to say anything at all. Or she could give faint praise or vaguely worded statements of support. 
 

Instead, she has given effusive praise. But I am to cynically conclude that she’s being dishonest for the money?

[TheDreadReader]

16 hours ago, Gothic Flame said:

She can't say anything...yet.

She's in the same situation that Jim Butcher was in when Dresden Files" was turned into a show. 

 

There is no indication that she has a non-disparagement clause in her NDA.  Sanderson says he does not have one.

 

As for Butcher, he was pretty clear when the Dresden Files show came out that it was a separate thing.

 

"The show is not the books. It is not meant to follow the same story. It is meant as an alternate world, where the overall background and story-world is similar, but not all the same things happen. The show is not attempting to recreate the books on a chapter-by-chapter or even story-by-story basis"

 

At the time that show was released, it was pretty common for authors to option and walk away from properties once they went into development.  That has changed quite a lot in recent years.  But, even today not everyone can be Neil Gaiman and be the showrunner on their own material.

 

 

[Skipp]

2 hours ago, Gothic Flame said:

I'm already reading about episode 8. It seems someone from the other side of the world was able to watch it.

 

If it's accurate...?

 

1 hour ago, fra85uk said:

Yeah leaks are everywhere and  they don't seem any good

 

People who seem to dislike the show continue to dislike the show *Shocked pikachu face*

 

Until I watch it I can't really say but I am optimistic even with the leaked changes.  They are approaching all of this under an 8 season show runtime. So view the changes through that lens.

 

But who knows, maybe the execution fails the landing and the show ends on a sour note for me.  Won't know for another 12 hours myself.

[Ralph]

28 minutes ago, Skipp said:

 

 

People who seem to dislike the show continue to dislike the show *Shocked pikachu face*

 

Until I watch it I can't really say but I am optimistic even with the leaked changes.  They are approaching all of this under an 8 season show runtime. So view the changes through that lens.

 

But who knows, maybe the execution fails the landing and the show ends on a sour note for me.  Won't know for another 12 hours myself.

Less than 9!

 

Unless of course you mean you wouldnt judge it before three watches

 

Which I would understand

Edited December 23, 2021 by Ralph

[Skipp]

4 minutes ago, Ralph said:

8!

11+ for me, between work and promising to watching the finale with a group of friends.  Oh the agony!

[TheDreadReader]

 

 

13 hours ago, Bang bang said:

For instance, do you feel that hbo did got justice with the show it presented. Did it Garner a multitude of new fans who may not like fantasy? I'd say it did. 

 

 

Perhaps, one of the biggest differences between GOT and WOT is the writers for GOT pretty clearly removed as much "fantasy" as they could from GOT in the early seasons whereas WOT has leaned strongly into showing as much "fantasy" as they could. 

 

As for The Witcher.  It is a good adaptation of a mixed set of sources.  Season 1 got a lot of stick for being confusing to those not familiar with the material.  Season 2 made some improvements.   

 

One can likely expect WOT to make similar improvements as they go along.

 

[Elder_Haman]

2 minutes ago, TheDreadReader said:

As for The Witcher.  It is a good adaptation of a mixed set of sources.  Season 1 got a lot of stick for being confusing to those not familiar with the material.  Season 2 made some improvements. 

Agreed. Season 1 of WoT - thus far - compares favorably to Season 1 of the Witcher. Witcher S1 had some janky CGI, a confusing narrative, and some uneven acting. I'd say WoT has also had some CGI problems. WoT's biggest problem so far has been pacing/editing. I'm really hoping the success of S1 will result in slightly lengthier episodes in S2. Going from episodes that are just under 1 hour to episodes that are slightly longer than 1 hour would really help with the pacing.

[RhienneAgain]

I agree with comments that the writing is the weak spot. Some of the dialogue is awful and just totally uncharacteristic of the characters or RJ's world (Nynaeve's use of 'blow smoke up our asses' made me cringe into the depths of my sofa). 

[Gothic Flame]

9 hours ago, fra85uk said:

Yeah leaks are everywhere and  they don't seem any good

Spoiler

Amalisa as one of the great generals?

 

[Gothic Flame]

1 hour ago, RhienneAgain said:

I agree with comments that the writing is the weak spot. Some of the dialogue is awful and just totally uncharacteristic of the characters or RJ's world (Nynaeve's use of 'blow smoke up our asses' made me cringe into the depths of my sofa). 

Should have said something along the lines of "What a pack of gleemen's tales."

[Meskell]

Episode 8 spoilers

 

Spoiler

- Lews Therin was a disappointment.

- Moiraine saying don’t touch anything in the Blight whilst literally having twigs in her hair and then sitting on the trees. 
- Nynaeve somehow knowing Moiraine has a ‘tell’ when tracking that Lan wouldn’t know about. What even is a tracking ‘tell’ come on!!

- Egwene’s acting has really tailed off, especially during the crying scene with Perrin. 
- Perrin cannot act at all. It’s no wonder they just make him mope in a corner normally. 
- Lord Agelmar dying this early. 
- the Horn of Valere just sitting under a chair in the most at risk city near the Blight. 
- the women having the massive one power / super girls scene again.

- Somehow burning out despite not being possible when linked. 

- a random, slightly trained, weakling in the power being able to cast lightning and wipe out between 5,000 (when fighting the men) and 40,000 (when fighting the 5 women) trollocs. 
- Rand already being told that he can reshape reality, not just channel. 
- Moiraine being gentled.

- The Horn of Valere just being in a plastic looking box.  
- Mat again being implied as inherently evil. 
- EGWENE BRINGING NYNAEVE BACK FROM THE DEAD. 
- still the way channeling is shown, with all the arm waving looks very much like The Magicians series. So off putting. 

 

[Gonk]

I gave this a chance... A wasted opportunity. Poor writing, terrible pacing and generally substandard acting. However, I did enjoy Rosamund Pike as Moraine and Daniel Henney as Lan. Yes the characters are a distant cry from the books, but they are both great actors, and engaging when on screen. 

 

Balefire is needed to to remove this show from the pattern.