Will the show be good? Our hopes and concerns

[Wraith235]

7 minutes ago, TheDreadReader said:

 

Yes.  I commented on it yesterday too.

 

I suspect that BS could tell Rafe to pound sand if BS was in the process of writing new WOT material for publication and Rafe asked him to change something for "tv show" reasons.

 

In terms of relationship to RJ's creation they are basically at a equivalent level.  One was "hired" to complete the series in book form.  The other was "hired" to adapt the series in a tv show.   Neither one of them is RJ himself.  

 

The fact that BS and Team Jordan are involved in the show's production is a good thing.

 

 

Id actually argue that to a point .... 
Based on what we were told back at the release of Gathering Storm Sanderson wasn't "Just Hired" he was hand picked by Jordan's  Widow to complete his work - saying he was hired I feel is an insufficent

Judkins was hired by the rights holder (amazon) to make the series. I think calling them equals is unfair but I do see the argument 

Edited November 11, 2021 by Wraith235

[king of nowhere]

if rafe didn't have the right to disregard advice, then it would not be advice. it would be sanderson making decisions alone, or sarah making decisions alone. and by the way, rafe is more an expert in tv shows than either.

 

now, if he never listened to any advice, then it would be a problem. but he's not supposed to incorporate all advice all the time

[Wraith235]

18 minutes ago, king of nowhere said:

if rafe didn't have the right to disregard advice, then it would not be advice. it would be sanderson making decisions alone, or sarah making decisions alone. and by the way, rafe is more an expert in tv shows than either.

 

now, if he never listened to any advice, then it would be a problem. but he's not supposed to incorporate all advice all the time

and I think thats the issue  is that making some of these changes in spite of the world is basically a slap to both Jordan/Sanderson and the fans

I would speculate that the clash was over degendering the one power

[Skipp]

1 minute ago, Wraith235 said:

and I think thats the issue  is that making some of these changes in spite of the world is basically a slap to both Jordan/Sanderson and the fans

I would speculate that the clash was over degendering the one power

Considering that the idea that they've degendered the one power is wild speculation at this point I would say you are leaping to conclusions.

[Wraith235]

1 minute ago, Skipp said:

Considering that the idea that they've degendered the one power is wild speculation at this point I would say you are leaping to conclusions.

there are Quotes from Rafe about it IIRC

[Skipp]

2 minutes ago, Wraith235 said:

there are Quotes from Rafe about it IIRC

Source?

 

i have seen the quotes about the possible degendering of Souls and the such but nothing about Degendering the One Power.

[Wraith235]

2 minutes ago, Skipp said:

Source?

 

i have seen the quotes about the possible degendering of Souls and the such but nothing about Degendering the One Power.

ties into the dragon being a female in past ages 

[Skipp]

3 minutes ago, Wraith235 said:

ties into the dragon being a female in past ages 

That doesn't mean they have degendered the One Power, only that  Saidar/Saidin are not linked to the soul.

 

I took degendering the OP to mean that there won't be any difference between what men and female channel, that they both would be able to see each others weaves and sense each others ability to channel.  And some other reason as to why only men go mad when channeling.

[Ralph]

Rafe explicitly said only women who channel can see women chanelling

[Wraith235]

2 minutes ago, Skipp said:

That doesn't mean they have degendered the One Power, only that  Saidar/Saidin are not linked to the soul.

 

I took degendering the OP to mean that there won't be any difference between what men and female channel, that they both would be able to see each others weaves and sense each others ability to channel.  And some other reason as to why only men go mad when channeling.

that would be the absolute WORST Case scenario and something that I think would turn the fanbase away in an instant .... similar to things what Kennedy has done with star wars

and I truly dont think they would be that stupid .... but weve seen dumber things in the past I suppose

Edited November 11, 2021 by Wraith235

[Ralph]

5 minutes ago, Ralph said:

Rafe explicitly said only women who channel can see women chanelling

 

 

Q: Will we see the actual weaves or just the end result of channeling?

A: You’re gonna see it if you’re a woman who can channel

 

[Skipp]

2 minutes ago, Wraith235 said:

that would be the absolute WORST Case scenario and something that I think would turn the fanbase away in an instant .... similar to things what Kennedy has done with star wars

and I truly dont think they would be that stupid .... but weve seen dumber things in the past I suppose

Then I would be careful about stating that they have "Degendered the OP", as that is wildly speculative.

 

And BTW I love Star Wars, I adore the OT, have come around on the PT, Enjoy the ST.  Clone Wars, Rebels, The Mandolorian, love it all.  TLJ is my favourite Star Wars movie just edging out Empire. 

 

So no, not all Star wars fans hate what Kennedy has done with Star Wars as people often bring up.

[Wraith235]

15 minutes ago, Skipp said:

Then I would be careful about stating that they have "Degendered the OP", as that is wildly speculative.

 

 

As soon as you open the door to degendering  souls - particularly in this world you potentially degender the OP as well 
Specifically when it comes to the DR 

Sadly one equals the other in this world .....
now are they actually doing it - we dont know ... issue is the door is open and in this instance that is enough to make people concerned 

[king of nowhere]

28 minutes ago, Wraith235 said:

I would speculate that the clash was over degendering the one power

as others showed, there is no evidence they did that, and ample evidence they didn't.

And this is the problem with the anti-woke train here: they are taking every small snippet and exaggerating it wildly. then they are tossing it around like it's confirmed, and from there they will infer something even more preposterous. like a few pages ago "this was not done to cater to white males" became "we don't want any white males to watch this".

 

Look, I am not fond of this trend in media myself. All this "we need more powerful women", "we need more minorities", "we need more lgbt", "we need more powerful black transsexual women with a disability". I don't have anything against including people, but i do oppose presenting a show as "better" because it has more women in power. if people just used more representation without shouting it out as a marketing point, i think we'd all be better off. I don't know, there's probably a few extremist feminists out there who like watching strong women kicking men's **** and would watch a show just for it, but I can't believe they are a significant market segment. therefore, "we replaced all white male protagonists with women and other ethnicities, so you must watch this" is a marketing strategy that leaves me baffled.

But! Just because there is a vocal minority pushing things too far (and there is always, for every topic, a vocal minority pushing things too far), it's no reason to jump to hate everything, and it's no reason to jump immediately to the worst conclusions.

 

All those fake news start because there is someone scared, and they will read some things out of context, - or some wild speculation, or some preposterous exaggeration sprouted by some member of an extremist vocal minority. and since it panders to their worst fears, they don't stop and check, they immediately jump to conclusions "omg! my fears were true! the world must know!". and then they spread a distorted version of the thing. and other people like him will read it, and they won't stop and think it's just wild speculation distorted by fear. no, they will also have the "omg! my fears were true! the world must know!" reaction. and they will spread even more corrupted versions of the original piece.

 

this is a vicious mechanism exploting a flaw of the human mind; that we give more importance to things we fear. which was good survival sense in the stone age: if we heard a sound in the brush, thinking maybe it could be a lion could save our life. And if it was just the wind, little harm done. But in the information age, it's no longer productive.

In the case of a tv show it's fairly harmless, but it's the same mechanism that spreads conspiracy theories.

We should always be wary when we see our worst fears "confirmed": we should recognize that we are much more likely to behave irrationally when those fears are involved.

[Wraith235]

17 minutes ago, king of nowhere said:

as others showed, there is no evidence they did that, and ample evidence they didn't.

 

there is however an article that states they did clash over things ... and that they said they were going to do it anyway 
https://screenrant.com/wheel-time-show-story-brandon-sanderson-rafe-judkins-opinions/ 

apparently Multiple things if you do pay attention to the verbage ... 

 

Edited November 11, 2021 by Wraith235

[Skipp]

7 minutes ago, Wraith235 said:

there is however an article that states they did clash over things ... and that they said they were going to do it anyway 
https://screenrant.com/wheel-time-show-story-brandon-sanderson-rafe-judkins-opinions/ 

apparently Multiple things if you do pay attention to the verbage ... 

 

It is a clickbait title as Screen rant is wont to do.

 

the quote in the article is

 

"Brandon is super honest, saying, ‘I don’t think this works, for this reason,’ and then I’m like ‘OK I have to pay serious attention to this.’ And then there have been times to where I’m like, ‘No, this is why we’re doing it. It’s a choice and I actually think it really works and it’s going to work for us long-term.’ And then we agree to disagree on it."

 

 

Edited November 11, 2021 by Skipp
clarification and quote added.

[king of nowhere]

13 minutes ago, Wraith235 said:

there is however an article that states they did clash over things ... and that they said they were going to do it anyway 
https://screenrant.com/wheel-time-show-story-brandon-sanderson-rafe-judkins-opinions/ 

apparently Multiple things if you do pay attention to the verbage ...

that's EXACTLY the kind of mechanism i was describing. there is the interview, which says that sometimes they disagreed. somebody took it as confirmation of their worst fears, and posted a distorted version - where "disagree" becomes "clashes". which are two completely different things. good, smart, rational people have disagreements all the time and there's nothing wrong with it.

and then you are taking it and further distorting: if there was clashing between sanderson and rafe, then it must be over something important: confirmation that they removed saidar and saidin!

 

and look how, in only two passages, we came from "rafe and brandon have had occasional disagreements on a few things" to "it is 100% CONFIRMED! rafe removed saidar and saidin while brandon stormed out in outrage!!!! the world must know!!!1!!!1!!"

 

seriously, how can people actually believe that kind of stuff?

 

[WalterKohl]

3 hours ago, swollymammoth said:

Lol Okay, dude. Don't watch the show. Ignore all the LGBT anime fans who cite Simoun as instrumental in their own awakenings. Ignore all the straight people who will tell you that they became more open minded to real life LGBT people as a result of watching this show and others like it (Revolutionary Girl Utena comes to mind). Ignore my own personal lived experience. Just brush it all under the rug. 

Okay dude, you are the one who tried to play off "straight dudes looking at lesbians doing stuff" is not the basis of pretty much every straight porn mag out there...  sure....  I am sure you can find lots of guys who thumbed through Penthouse and were like "wow I really feel for those lesbians milking that cow"...  

[Wraith235]

7 minutes ago, Skipp said:

It is a clickbait title as Screen rant is wont to do.

 

the quote in the article is

 

"Brandon is super honest, saying, ‘I don’t think this works, for this reason,’ and then I’m like ‘OK I have to pay serious attention to this.’ And then there have been times to where I’m like, ‘No, this is why we’re doing it. It’s a choice and I actually think it really works and it’s going to work for us long-term.’ And then we agree to disagree on it."

 

 

exactly .... and as I said the verbage suggests there were multiple disagreements 

 

1 minute ago, king of nowhere said:

that's EXACTLY the kind of mechanism i was describing. there is the interview, which says that sometimes they disagreed. somebody took it as confirmation of their worst fears, and posted a distorted version - where "disagree" becomes "clashes". which are two completely different things. good, smart, rational people have disagreements all the time and there's nothing wrong with it.

and then you are taking it and further distorting: if there was clashing between sanderson and rafe, then it must be over something important: confirmation that they removed saidar and saidin!

 

and look how, in only two passages, we came from "rafe and brandon have had occasional disagreements on a few things" to "it is 100% CONFIRMED! rafe removed saidar and saidin while brandon stormed out in outrage!!!! the world must know!!!1!!!1!!"

 

seriously, how can people actually believe that kind of stuff? 

1st I NEVER Said removing Saidin and Saidar - and I have not seen anyone making such claims aside from your hypothetical statement- though I suppose stranger things have happened and maybe it is out there somewhere 

the way you get from point A to point B- at least for me is the other quotes from Rafe regarding the de-gendering of souls - the MOMENT you say that the dragon has been female in ages past you de-gender the OP .... I have speculated that this may have been a point of contention simply due to the gravity of the change

[Deadsy]

4 minutes ago, Wraith235 said:

the way you get from point A to point B- at least for me is the other quotes from Rafe regarding the de-gendering of souls - the MOMENT you say that the dragon has been female in ages past you de-gender the OP .... I have speculated that this may have been a point of contention simply due to the gravity of the change

 

 

If the dragon has been female in the past, it's far more likely they will make the One Power tied to biological sex rather than the soul. So if Egwene were LTT reborn, she would channel saidar (or not channel). If they take out saidar/saidin, then she would channel but not be affected by the taint due to the fact she was born a woman.

Edited November 11, 2021 by Deadsy

[MasterAblar]

There's no proof they've removed saidin and saidar. All that is confirmed is that souls are no longer gendered, and therefore in the case of channellers a soul is no longer tied to saidin or saidar.

 

Logically then, saidin or saidar is tied to the body the soul is in. How that impacts Arangar is unknown but I would guess she is unlikely to appear in the show.

[Deadsy]

1 minute ago, MasterAblar said:

There's no proof they've removed saidin and saidar. All that is confirmed is that souls are no longer gendered, and therefore in the case of channellers a soul is no longer tied to saidin or saidar.

 

Logically then, saidin or saidar is tied to the body the soul is in. How that impacts Arangar is unknown but I would guess she is unlikely to appear in the show.

 

 

My guess is Balthamel dies and stays dead. Halima didn't do much in the end that I think is worth including in the show. I still think they will bring back some to increase tension, but I doubt it'll happen as often.

[MasterAblar]

1 minute ago, Deadsy said:

 

 

My guess is Balthamel dies and stays dead. Halima didn't do much in the end that I think is worth including in the show. I still think they will bring back some to increase tension, but I doubt it'll happen as often.

 

Ye I don't see Balthamel coming back. Aginor as well seems unlikely. Ishamael I don't see how you can discard. Lanfear probably as well but not as vital.

[Skipp]

3 minutes ago, Deadsy said:

 

 

My guess is Balthamel dies and stays dead. Halima didn't do much in the end that I think is worth including in the show. I still think they will bring back some to increase tension, but I doubt it'll happen as often.

Or it is something that the DO did specifically to Halima. But I think your suggestion is more likely though

[Deadsy]

3 minutes ago, MasterAblar said:

 

Ye I don't see Balthamel coming back. Aginor as well seems unlikely. Ishamael I don't see how you can discard. Lanfear probably as well but not as vital.

 

 

I feel they have to make the ones they keep around far more bad ass though. Not sure how you do that and keep the mains all alive. Maybe build up some of the secondary characters that die a bit more. That said I don't want them to try to make this like GoT.

Edited November 11, 2021 by Deadsy