IGN Explainer - the Dark One

[Elder_Haman]

 

It's worth a watch. This is the boost of encouragement I needed.

It seems very clear that Season One will be centered on the question of "who is the Dragon?" It also seems clear that the Dragon is going to be very much an unknown quantity. "Is the Dragon a savior or a destroyer?" is going to provide the subtext. And to me, this hints at something I have advocated for a long time - structuring the tv show so the audience genuinely does not know whether Rand is a force for good. At Natrin's Barrow, I've always wanted new audiences to be convinced that Rand must be stopped. Essentially, that Egwene is right in not wanting to destroy the seals.

 

Follow my logic here:

• If you believe that Rand is a destroyer, then you must believe that someone else will be the savior.
• If someone else is the savior, that person would fulfill the prophecy of saving the world.
• The person who saved the world would be the "true Dragon".
• If Rand is a destroyer, then the person who most opposes Rand is likely the savior.
• Egwene's rivalry with Rand is at its apex.

 

By keeping the door open a crack as to "might the Dragon be a girl," they have kept alive a huge moment of dramatic tension. For audiences who don't know what's coming, they leave the possibility alive that Egwene is the "true Dragon," that she is right, that Rand doesn't know what he's doing. 

 

Looking at it from this perspective, leaving Egwene as a sort of "dark horse" for the true hero is actually an inspired choice in my opinion. 

 

This clip also makes it clear that the stories are going to be personal and that they will lean into the backstories of the Forsaken. My optimism has returned!! 

 

 

[Skipp]

I appreciated him speaking about the Forsaken.  They have been awfully closed lipped about them up to this point.

 

But I agree they want that mystery of who the DR is.  The idea that late in the series they would want you to requestion that is interesting.

[Rose]

I didn't consider that they might keep a sliver of doubt for longer into the series. That'd definitely be interesting.

[WalterKohl]

If you think about it, the question about Rand being the Dragon was asked by people in the book pretty much till the end.. heck even people in Tear questioned it after he took the stone...  we know who he is because we are in the authors head but the idea that people were still questioning the idea that Rand was the Dragon Reborn is all over the books, just as side notes of people of high and low rank and not any of the main characters making statements...   Even Pedro Nail thought he could be the dragon reborn, or that the Whitecloaks  would be the Dragon Reborn if I remember one of his discussions with Morgase....  

[Arthellion]

Yeah looks like we're going to see an almost series long tension of Who is the Dragon?

 

Personally my money is on Bela being the Dragon Reborn.

 

It's a different experience than I was expecting I suppose, but I'm not opposed to it if the execution is well done.

 

Much happier about this teaser than some of the others.

 

The 19th needs to get here sooner!

Edited November 4, 2021 by Arthellion

[SinisterDeath]

@Elder_HamanIf I had any complaints about Rafe as a showrunner, it has to be the way he talks with an upward inflection at the end of every sentence, and everything sounds like a question.
 

 

[Ryan al'Thor]

18 minutes ago, WalterKohl said:

If you think about it, the question about Rand being the Dragon was asked by people in the book pretty much till the end.. heck even people in Tear questioned it after he took the stone...  we know who he is because we are in the authors head but the idea that people were still questioning the idea that Rand was the Dragon Reborn is all over the books, just as side notes of people of high and low rank and not any of the main characters making statements...   Even Pedro Nail thought he could be the dragon reborn, or that the Whitecloaks  would be the Dragon Reborn if I remember one of his discussions with Morgase....  

So then he doesn't take Callandor, doesn't become Car'a'carn, etc. Those prove he is TDR. I was really looking forward to buying Callandor when merch comes out.

Edited November 4, 2021 by Ryan al'Thor

[MasterAblar]

Car'a'carn doesn't have anything to do with the Dragon Reborn strictly speaking.

 

I do think its rather hard to keep people doubting that Rand is the Dragon Reborn all the way to the latter books. He knocks down prophecies left and right and battles the forsaken every tuesday. Sure it could be a giant misdirection from the showrunners but I don't know if the story is structured in a way to make that feasible.

Edited November 4, 2021 by MasterAblar

[Rose]

Yeah I agree I have a hard time seeing how they can keep up the doubt in a believable way while Rand keeps on fulfilling prophecies. And I'm pretty sure we're getting something Callandor-adjacent at least because Tear is on the map in the Prime Video "Explore" thing. I don't see any reason for Tear to be on there when so many other places aren't unless they're highlighting it as part of the prophecies (maybe Logain is on his way there with his army when he's captured?)

 

But the idea of making Egwene more of a direct rival/alternative throughout is still interesting. Who knows. I'm curious to find out.

[Ryan al'Thor]

4 minutes ago, MasterAblar said:

Car'a'carn doesn't have anything to do with the Dragon Reborn strictly speaking.

 

I do think its rather hard to keep people doubting that Rand is the Dragon Reborn all the way to the latter books. He knocks down prophecies left and right and battles the forsaken every tuesday. Sure it could be a giant misdirection from the showrunners but I don't know if the story is structured in a way to make that feasible.

Correct about Car’a’carn, that’s aiel based, but the etc means the others I didn’t mention.

[WalterKohl]

7 minutes ago, Ryan al'Thor said:

So then he doesn't take Callandor, doesn't become Car'a'carn, etc. Those prove he is TDR. I was really looking forward to buying Callandor when merch comes out.

Not sure what you are trying to say here, but in the books people didn't believe he was the Dragon even when he completed some of the largest signs, and remember pretty much  NO ONE knew there was a connection between the Aeil/Car’a’Carn and the Dragon Reborn….    The idea that the show will stretch this out for the viewer longer than it was for the reader is not surprising, it’s actually a pretty good way to keep people interested.. 

[Rose]

7 minutes ago, WalterKohl said:

Not sure what you are trying to say here, but in the books people didn't believe he was the Dragon even when he completed some of the largest signs, and remember pretty much  NO ONE knew there was a connection between the Aeil/Car’a’Carn and the Dragon Reborn….    The idea that the show will stretch this out for the viewer longer than it was for the reader is not surprising, it’s actually a pretty good way to keep people interested.. 

 

I agree with you! However it will be harder to fool a genre-savvy audience. I already have non-book reader friends who figured out Rand is the DR just based on the way the promotional materials are shot.

 

But they can still play it in a way that makes it understandable why people in-world don't believe Rand until very late into the series. It was the case in the books, but since we were always in our protagonists' heads, it was kind of difficult to understand and sometimes frustrating because *we* know Rand is the DR so we just want everyone to fall in line already. Making it more ambiguous for the show would help us understand why everyone doesn't believe him right away.

Edited November 4, 2021 by Rose

[Ralph]

Maybe they are playing the save/destroy part of the prophecy, and building a possibility that there is an anti-Dragon who saves the world from the Dragon

[Skipp]

I don't think they will try and keep people guessing all the way through the show who the DR is.  I figure Rand will be declared by the end of season 1...... maybe season 2.  But it would be neat if near the end of the series, when Rand is at his lowest, if characters maybe start to question if he is actually the DR.  And maybe that bleeds into the audience.

[SinisterDeath]

4 minutes ago, Skipp said:

I don't think they will try and keep people guessing all the way through the show who the DR is.  I figure Rand will be declared by the end of season 1...... maybe season 2.  But it would be neat if near the end of the series, when Rand is at his lowest, if characters maybe start to question if he is actually the DR.  And maybe that bleeds into the audience.

Just like the books, It's obvious to the reader by the finale of the EoTW that he's the Dragon.

In Univeres, he's semi-officially declared/confirmed when he obtains Callandor. 

[Elder_Haman]

1 minute ago, SinisterDeath said:

Just like the books, It's obvious to the reader by the finale of the EoTW that he's the Dragon.

Correct. And I think that this will be the case in the show as well. And I'm not making the case that Egwene could be the Dragon.

 

What I am saying is that by not specifically saying the Dragon must be a man (and not changing anything else), they keep open the theory that Egwene is the savior.

 

Because of the way Game of Thrones ended, people are primed for the "this character we have been rooting for turns out to be evil" type of ending. But nobody really loves that ending. So when Rand is at his worst, Egwene is at her best. So people can root for Egwene. And a subset of those people will craft the theory that Egwene is the real savior. 

12 minutes ago, Ralph said:

an anti-Dragon

Yeah, an anti-Dragon. 

[Rose]

5 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

Correct. And I think that this will be the case in the show as well. And I'm not making the case that Egwene could be the Dragon.

 

What I am saying is that by not specifically saying the Dragon must be a man (and not changing anything else), they keep open the theory that Egwene is the savior.

 

Because of the way Game of Thrones ended, people are primed for the "this character we have been rooting for turns out to be evil" type of ending. But nobody really loves that ending. So when Rand is at his worst, Egwene is at her best. So people can root for Egwene. And a subset of those people will craft the theory that Egwene is the real savior. 

Yeah, an anti-Dragon. 

 

I like this a lot. It also plays into the never-confirmed fan theories that Egwene is Latra Posae reborn.

[MasterAblar]

11 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

Just like the books, It's obvious to the reader by the finale of the EoTW that he's the Dragon.

In Univeres, he's semi-officially declared/confirmed when he obtains Callandor. 

 

Technically I would argue that he annouces himself at Falme, albeit unwitingly. Obtaining Callandor is how he proves himself to be the Dragon Reborn, although yes some would still deny it.

[Ryan al'Thor]

17 minutes ago, MasterAblar said:

 

Technically I would argue that he annouces himself at Falme, albeit unwitingly. Obtaining Callandor is how he proves himself to be the Dragon Reborn, although yes some would still deny it.

Gawyn is the primary one that doesn’t believe it. 

[Ryan al'Thor]

40 minutes ago, Ralph said:

Maybe they are playing the save/destroy part of the prophecy, and building a possibility that there is an anti-Dragon who saves the world from the Dragon

Ugh

[Ralph]

4 minutes ago, Ryan al'Thor said:

Gawyn is the primary one that doesn’t believe it. 

Niall. Some of the High Lords of Tear

Edited November 4, 2021 by Ralph

[Ralph]

1 minute ago, Ryan al'Thor said:

Ugh

 

What did Egwene think she was doing when she opposed the Dragon's plan? She felt he was mistaken and breaking the seals would break the world. What did she feel would happen if she opposed it? 

[MasterAblar]

I wasn't thinking of anyone specifically but yes those mentioned above for sure. I just meant there will always be people who will deny reality if it doesn't suit them. And I'm fairly certain most people would rather the dragon reborn did not show up.

[Agitel]

Rafe isn't going to spoil anything. I don't expect the mystery of the Dragon to last the whole series. That's just the question they're playing up for know-nothings.

[Maximillion]

Lan refers to the Dragon as 'he'.

Something encouraging.

 

Edited November 5, 2021 by Maximillion