full book spoilers Season 1 Discussion (Full Book Spoilers)

[AusLeviathan]

15 minutes ago, CaddySedai said:

I don't recall anyone actually trying to HIDE their tracks through the woods. So tracking shouldn't be an issue.

They sort of show that Lan is constantly going ahead of the group as a scout and also hangs behind the group at times which is presumably when he's meant to be hiding their tracks.

 

12 minutes ago, Agitel said:

A woman can't have tracking skills if she won't explain who taught her. Inconceivable.

A person can't have excellent tracking skills if you don't explain how. What about Nynaeve would suggest she knows how to track someone? She's introduced as the village healer and it's made very clear that it's all she knows (since they removed her father and he had brought up solely by the previous village healer).

 

So we go from village healer to her suddenly tracking people across a river that has lost the crossing they used. A long distance all the way to an abandoned city and from there somehow tracking Lan's movements as he flees in a random direction and to top it all off the experienced Lan is confused at how she did this which leads to her explanation "I'm not going to tell you".

 

It's like something out of a satire rather than actual serious dramatic writing.

Edited November 20, 2021 by AusLeviathan

[SingleMort]

 

Okay after having watched all 3 episodes so far I'm kinda mixed on the show, so I'll split my opinions accordingly. These are the points that really stuck out for me.

 

The Bad 

• I think it was a mistake not to have a version of the prologue as the start of Episode 1 and Moiraine's explanation seemed very glossed over and rushed.
• Perrin's wife/partner seemed a completely pointless inclusion. She's in 3 scenes, barely says anything and is killed after about 30 mins. Even Perrin doesn't seem that upset about her death. They could have used the time spent on this character to develop other things such as the relationship the Emond's Field characters have with each other and their families and why they are important.
• I was pretty disappointed that Mordeth was cut completely from the Shadar Logoth scenes and Mat just randomly finds the dagger lying on the ground
• There is stuff that is rushed and other things that take longer than they need. For example after the attack in episode 1 everyone immediately sets off with Moiraine with a few seconds of her saying they must go there wasn't even any farewell moments. In contrast the scene where Nyneave catches up with them and Lan asks her to help Moiraine but first they have to have a little fight and she has to get tied up. Then is the next scene she agrees to help. There seems no need to have 2 scenes to do that in.
• I really don’t like the fact they seem to be implying there is sexual relationship between Moiraine and Lan    

The Good

• Beautiful visuals and set design and costumes. Everything looks well thought out and carefully crafted. Emond's Field looks great and Shadar Logoth looked just as I imagined it in the books. Also all of the gorgeous landscape shots, the Trolloc and Fade costumes and the human characters all looked great.

• The acting performances were pretty good. Obviously Lan and Moiraine stood out from the start but Rand, Mat and Egwene really came alive after the left Emond's Field. I wish we had got to spend some more time with them there particularly with Rand and Tam. Overall I think they will do well with the roles

• The action scenes and fight choreography are well done and were suitably intense enough and the violence felt appropriate with being a splatterfest. The scenes on horseback with also very majestic and evocative of the classic LoTR movies which I count as a positive because the looked good there and they look good here.

• This idea of Perrin’s link to the wolves is an intriguing change from the books. Lol I’m not sure I buy the fact someone would just stand still and let a wolf lick their wounds (it would probably be even more infected for a normal person now) but I am interested to see where that goes. I always thought the books rushed that a bit at the start suddenly Perrin can hear wolves, linking it to the wound might not be a bad idea depending on where they go with it.  

• The additional Whitecloak scenes. I thought they were suitably menacing and cruel and a calculated and cold manner. Eamon Valda is great (I mean he’s terrible but that’s the point). The scene where he’s burning the Aes Sedai and the unexpected meeting between them and Moiraine where both great scenes. The only thing I don’t like is their costumes. I always imagined them dressed more as soldiers than priests like a Templar look.

Anyway those are just a few of my thoughts so far sorry if my opinions differ from yours.

Edited November 20, 2021 by SingleMort

[Wordjerk]

1 minute ago, AusLeviathan said:

A person can't have excellent tracking skills if you don't explain how. What about Nynaeve would suggest she know how to track someone?

I'll admit the choice to show Nynaeve as a skilled killer who has little problem fighting Trollocs struck me as odd (I'm still not totally on board with that haha). That being said, they've changed her backstory to one we as the viewer don't understand yet. So there could easily be a forthcoming explanation as to how she got her tracking (and perhaps fighting skills). 

[LoRd PyrO]

Avid fan of the book series. Just watched s1 E1. Kind of confused and disappointed on the point of view and the adaptations from the storyline. Not sure if I am just expecting too much to stay with the original. There are a couple things that I do not like oh, and do not see how they can further the storyline. First and foremost among them would be that parent is married already oh, and there is no master and mistress Luhan. Also, where is Thom Merrilin?? Did I miss something?!!

[Wordjerk]

1 minute ago, LoRd PyrO said:

Also, where is Thom Merrilin?? Did I miss something?!!

He shows up in episode 3. Perhaps not the way we thought he would/should, but he does exist!

[SingleMort]

1 minute ago, LoRd PyrO said:

Avid fan of the book series. Just watched s1 E1. Kind of confused and disappointed on the point of view and the adaptations from the storyline. Not sure if I am just expecting too much to stay with the original. There are a couple things that I do not like oh, and do not see how they can further the storyline. First and foremost among them would be that parent is married already oh, and there is no master and mistress Luhan. Also, where is Thom Merrilin?? Did I miss something?!!

keep watching if you want to see Thom. Also totally agree about Perrin's wife, don't get the point of her character so far

[LoRd PyrO]

Just now, Wordjerk said:

He shows up in episode 3. Perhaps not the way we thought he would/should, but he does exist!

I thought he was quite pivotal in the first book during their leave-taking. I thought that should have been included. My personal opinion.

[Agitel]

1 minute ago, LoRd PyrO said:

 Also, where is Thom Merrilin?? Did I miss something?!!

 

Beware this thread is for the whole season so far. There is a separate dedicated thread for each episode. I suggest those if you don't want to be spoiled.

 

Very, very minor spoiler on your quoted question...

 

Spoiler

Thom is in season one, his introduction was just moved to later. Watch and find out.

 

[Windigo]

2 minutes ago, Wordjerk said:

I'll admit the choice to show Nynaeve as a skilled killer who has little problem fighting Trollocs struck me as odd (I'm still not totally on board with that haha). That being said, they've changed her backstory to one we as the viewer don't understand yet. So there could easily be a forthcoming explanation as to how she got her tracking (and perhaps fighting skills). 

I have a feeling they will rely more on the tracking connection to Egwene  and the one power than her actual woodsmen tracking skills,   The book focuses on both, first showing her trying to read the tracks as she follows them, and later when she catches up to them,  Moraine explaining her connection to Egwene and sensing others with the One Power.

[SingleMort]

Just now, Windigo said:

I have a feeling they will rely more on the tracking connection to Egwene  and the one power than her actual woodsmen tracking skills,   The book focuses on both, first showing her trying to read the tracks as she follows them, and later when she catches up to them,  Moraine explaining her connection to Egwene and sensing others with the One Power.

I guess they will have to because Moiraine never gave them the coins

[LoRd PyrO]

I also don't quite like the way Rands journey from the farm to the village was excluded. I do understand trying to keep his role as the dragon minimized I, however, I think that builds upon his character development quite importantly

[MasterAblar]

11 minutes ago, AusLeviathan said:

They sort of show that Lan is constantly going ahead of the group as a scout and also hangs behind the group at times which is presumably when he's meant to be hiding their tracks.

 

A person can't have excellent tracking skills if you don't explain how. What about Nynaeve would suggest she knows how to track someone? She's introduced as the village healer and it's made very clear that it's all she knows (since they removed her father and he had brought up solely by the previous village healer).

 

So we go from village healer to her suddenly tracking people across a river that has lost the crossing they used. A long distance all the way to an abandoned city and from there somehow tracking Lan's movements as he flees in a random direction and to top it all off the experienced Lan is confused at how she did this which leads to her explanation "I'm not going to tell you".

 

It's like something out of a satire rather than actual serious dramatic writing.

 

Lan was confused about how he could track her in the books as well, how is this any different? Because its a little harder, because of a river? You really think that's a big issue?

 

I don't actually recall if she explains right away why she was able to track him in the books, but who cares if she doesn't here. It's already stated she's not from Eamond's Field, there's enough hidden about here, and the fact that she was able to track them suggests there's more to her than meets the idea. I don't see how this is a bad thing.

[SingleMort]

Just now, LoRd PyrO said:

I also don't quite like the way Rands journey from the farm to the village was excluded. I do understand trying to keep his role as the dragon minimized I, however, I think that builds upon his character development quite importantly

The lack of scenes between Tam and Rand seem like a missed opportunity. I mean it might be years before we see Tam again now. 

[MasterAblar]

9 minutes ago, Wordjerk said:

I'll admit the choice to show Nynaeve as a skilled killer who has little problem fighting Trollocs struck me as odd (I'm still not totally on board with that haha). That being said, they've changed her backstory to one we as the viewer don't understand yet. So there could easily be a forthcoming explanation as to how she got her tracking (and perhaps fighting skills). 

 

Don't really feel like she showed any particular fighting skill to be honest. She certainly didn't when fighting off a trolloc with Egwene. All she did later was hide from a trolloc in the darkness, and then stab him in the back with his weapon that was within her reach. Nothing particularly special there other than she has guts.

[MasterAblar]

4 minutes ago, LoRd PyrO said:

I also don't quite like the way Rands journey from the farm to the village was excluded. I do understand trying to keep his role as the dragon minimized I, however, I think that builds upon his character development quite importantly

 

I very much hope that it will be shown in a flashback. Could also explain was Rand was perturbed after reaching the village and in the second episode.

[Agitel]

2 minutes ago, MasterAblar said:

 

Don't really feel like she showed any particular fighting skill to be honest. She certainly didn't when fighting off a trolloc with Egwene. All she did later was hide from a trolloc in the darkness, and then stab him in the back with his weapon that was within her reach. Nothing particularly special there other than she has guts.

 

Probably internally thinking how much of a coward she is the whole time. 

[LoRd PyrO]

3 minutes ago, SingleMort said:

The lack of scenes between Tam and Rand seem like a missed opportunity. I mean it might be years before we see Tam again now. 

I agree. He is a pivotal figure in the entire series as he is rand's moral compass. Part of what I do not like how his role as a father figure was been in minalized.

[CaddySedai]

22 minutes ago, AusLeviathan said:

They sort of show that Lan is constantly going ahead of the group as a scout and also hangs behind the group at times which is presumably when he's meant to be hiding their tracks.

 

Fair but then it is only slightly less vague than Nyn being able to track the party.

 

Its a thing where it is not explicitly states one way or another.

 

I'm not gonna focus TOO hard on it either way tho lol. 

[Wordjerk]

5 minutes ago, MasterAblar said:

 

Don't really feel like she showed any particular fighting skill to be honest. She certainly didn't when fighting off a trolloc with Egwene. All she did later was hide from a trolloc in the darkness, and then stab him in the back with his weapon that was within her reach. Nothing particularly special there other than she has guts.

I mean maybe fighting skills isn't the best description of it, but in the books it takes a decent amount of something to kill Trollocs right? In Eye of the World Tam fights off Trollocs because he's a trained swordsman, Rand kills one by accident because Rand, Lan and Moraine can obvi. I don't know, either Trollocs aren't really as big a threat in the show or Nynaeve has better than average ability in that regard.

[LoRd PyrO]

11 minutes ago, SingleMort said:

I guess they will have to because Moiraine never gave them the coins

There are so many variations from the books that that actually escaped my notice right off the rip. But good call I'm catching it!

[AusLeviathan]

15 minutes ago, MasterAblar said:

I don't actually recall if she explains right away why she was able to track him in the books, but who cares if she doesn't here. It's already stated she's not from Eamond's Field, there's enough hidden about here, and the fact that she was able to track them suggests there's more to her than meets the idea. I don't see how this is a bad thing.

It's fully explained in the books immediately. Lan is surprised she managed to track them to Baerlon (it should be pretty obvious why this is also very different from tracking them to a random spot outside Shadar Logoth). Nynaeve explains that her father taught her, Lan says he must have taught her well, cue the setup for their relationship.

 

What exactly do you think is being hidden about her. They already explained that she was found as a baby from dead parents by the Wisdom (unless you think she's going to be portrayed at the Dragon Reborn there's not really anything this can effect, it is pretty clearly just there to justify Moiraine thinking it could be her).

 

As for the eventually explanation, watch them say that she did it because she can channel then ignore this for the rest of the show, since you know they can't actually have channelers be able to track all other channelers everywhere over long distances.

Edited November 20, 2021 by AusLeviathan

[MasterAblar]

1 minute ago, Wordjerk said:

I mean maybe fighting skills isn't the best description of it, but in the books it takes a decent amount of something to kill Trollocs right? In Eye of the World Tam fights off Trollocs because he's a trained swordsman, Rand kills one by accident because Rand, Lan and Moraine can obvi. I don't know, either Trollocs aren't really as big a threat in the show or Nynaeve has better than average ability in that regard.

 

I actually feel like Trollocs were made much more of a threat in the show. In the books they're basically cannon fodder. Or maybe its just they made Moiraine and Lan less terrifying in battle?

[LoRd PyrO]

8 minutes ago, MasterAblar said:

 

I very much hope that it will be shown in a flashback. Could also explain was Rand was perturbed after reaching the village and in the second episode.

In the book, nynaeve said she could not heal him, Thom, suggested he be brought to the winespring inn. There he hinted at Moraine abilities and Warned Rand about the cost of her assistance. To me these are very pivotal moments in the first book. I do not think they should have been excluded which they were

[MasterAblar]

1 minute ago, AusLeviathan said:

It's fully explained in the books immediately. Lan is surprised she managed to track them to Baerlon (it should be pretty obvious why this is also very different from tracking them to a random spot outside Shadar Logoth). Nynaeve explains that her father taught her, Lan says he must have taught her well, cue the setup for their relationship.

 

What exactly do you think is being hidden about her. They already explained that she was found as a baby from dead parents by the Wisdom (unless you think she's going to be portrayed at the Dragon Reborn there's not really anything this can affect.

 

As for the eventually explanation, watch them say that she did it because she can channel then ignore this for the rest of the show, since you know they can't actually have channelers be able to track all other channelers everywhere.

 

Maybe they will justify it through channelling, but I don't see any reason why she can't just have been taught by her father (or someone else), she just has no intention of revealing it someone she doesn't trust. I don't think the showrunners are trying to hide anything, I think its just Nyneave being Nyneave. In the books she told him because she was smug, here she's not telling him because she doesn't trust him.

 

In the books they had been together since Baerlon, here she only just caught them. Just doesn't seem very controversial to me.

[SingleMort]

1 minute ago, MasterAblar said:

 

I actually feel like Trollocs were made much more of a threat in the show. In the books they're basically cannon fodder. Or maybe its just they made Moiraine and Lan less terrifying in battle?

I feel like they were a threat in both but in the books the first time we see a trolloc is when it bursts through Tam's door, then you have that close quarters fight. Here we see a lot more of the attack on the village which wasn't really covered in great detail in the book