full book spoilers Season 1 Discussion (Full Book Spoilers)

[notpropaganda73]

So there are things I really like so far and things I'm disappointed in, that's to be expected. Overall I am happy with the trajectory of the season and at the end of episode 3 I was wanting to jump straight in to the next episode which I think is a good sign for the show as a whole. I probably have a long enough list of grievances but they aren't big enough for me to hate or stop watching or anything that extreme, they are just gripes that I wish had been done better. Full book and show spoilers below:
 

Spoiler

An example would be the entire idea behind the 4 leaving with Moiraine. There was no real set up to it. I will be watching ep1 with my partner later who has never read the books and I'll be really interested to see how someone new to the show reacts to it - to me it made absolutely no sense within the world they have built in the episode. There is no hint that the 4 have been specifically targeted by the Trollocs. I loved *loved* Padan Fain's small cameo and him disappearing as the Trollocs attacked, but I really wish there had been a dragon fang on scene that showed the 4 of their families were targeted at the very least. Just something to convince them to go, because it made no sense to me - especially in broad daylight with the entire Two Rivers looking at them. Nobody challenged the Aes Sedai, not one of them? 

 

 

The more you poke at something like that the more it really doesn't hold up and is quite a disappointment for what is, really, the key inciting incident of the entire series. 

 

That really is my main gripe and disappointment, outside of that I have small issues that I wish had been handled better. I really loved the Darkfriend reveal in episode 3 (apart from her chasing them through the village, that seemed silly). I liked Thom after initial hesitation with him, he was a good conduit for info dumping about the Aiel and it was done well. I thought the opening of showing a male channeler with the madness being caught was a really great idea of an opener - but something about the execution of that scene was a little off. But overall I liked it. I like the Perrin change for the television show, it doesn't sit well with me moreso because of who I know Perrin to be from the books, but I think for the show it makes sense to lay the groundwork for his issues further down the line. I also love that there are already theories about whether his wife was a DF - if the show can get the WoT FAQ up and running again with theories that will be wonderful ha! 

 

The Whitecloaks - an excellent introduction and really sinister to show the hands cut off the Aes Sedai. That scene serves as brilliant set up for when the gang meet the Whitecloaks on the road, which is a great scene for teaching us that the Aes Sedai can tell the truth in many ways, which in turn can feed in to a distrust of them. Excellent. 

 

Nynaeve I was not sure on from episode 1, but I really enjoyed her in episode 3 and thought there was some nice groundwork for her and Lan's relationship. 

 

The change to Mat's family is understandable in some ways but I felt like they went a little overboard, especially with showing his mother almost as a drug addict or something? And then it seemed like she was badly grief-stricken in the lantern scene? So did they lose a son or daughter or something? It felt like a change that wasn't executed well at all. But Mat overall I like, the only thing I'd have liked to see would be some skill with knives vs. a Trolloc in that first episode, but being honest I can't remember if it was Thom who taught him all of that in the books. 

 

I was disappointed not to get any of Tam's fever dreams but I must say I think/hope that will come in a future episode as a flashback for Rand as he struggles with who he is. That is probably my other main gripe, I feel as though there hasn't been much in terms of who the Dragon is out of the 4, just that it is one of them. There's been very little questioning about their pasts, and I would have thought if you make Egwene a live candidate to be the DR, then the conversation with Moiraine teaching her a little of the Power would be a lot more... loaded? Rand's dream with BZ and the others having different versions is probably the first hint that he is different, and then him knocking down the door was not at all subtle. Coupled with Thom's infodump on the Aiel and the focus on the red hair,  I think any mystery about the DR will be gone by now. So I hope they don't lean in to it too much more and focus more on Rand struggling against the idea that it is him. 

 

My other main annoyance is that Lan has not called Rand sheepherder yet, and there hasn't been any talk of the Void or heron marked blades. 

 

 

 

[CaddySedai]

7 hours ago, Seraphine said:

 

I think it will be a dream. Not sure if this has been hypothesized elsewhere, but I think the colors in the pool are the seven Ajah colors.

 

They are, it could be a dream but I also see it as possibly as being what was. 

 

The arches do not show the exact past, they can be different - in reality you could have become trapped in a cave and hid until you were dug out. But in the arch the way opens and you explore and learn more about yourself. 

 

Would also be great to hear that the way back will come but once, be steadfast

 

?

[Mnemosyne]

8 hours ago, Deadsy said:

 

  

9 hours ago, Mnemosyne said:

- The scene between Moiraine and Valda really bothered me. The way Moiraine reacted was very out of character, for any Aes Sedai let alone Moiraine. I get that they're trying to play up how sinister the Whitecloaks are, but it was way over the top.

 

What would have been in character?

 

Less meek. They could still have played the scene mostly the same way, even to the point of having her deferential, which was obviously required for the ruse. But I just don't see her staying so quiet while being manhandled -- it would even have been in character as a "lady" to say something.

 

But I will say that overall I'm thrilled with Pike's portrayal of Moiraine and generally I don't mind that they've made her somewhat more emotional, since she still has that ruthless streak... "steel covered in velvet" as I think it's described in the books at one point.

[Mnemosyne]

47 minutes ago, notpropaganda73 said:

there hasn't been any talk of the Void or heron marked blades. 

 

I imagine that's because they're trying to maintain the "Who is the Dragon Reborn?" mystery and that would give too much away. I wouldn't worry too much, I'm sure it will come!

[Apoc81]

1 hour ago, notpropaganda73 said:

So there are things I really like so far and things I'm disappointed in, that's to be expected. Overall I am happy with the trajectory of the season and at the end of episode 3 I was wanting to jump straight in to the next episode which I think is a good sign for the show as a whole. I probably have a long enough list of grievances but they aren't big enough for me to hate or stop watching or anything that extreme, they are just gripes that I wish had been done better. Full book and show spoilers below:
 

  Hide contents

 

An example would be the entire idea behind the 4 leaving with Moiraine. There was no real set up to it. I will be watching ep1 with my partner later who has never read the books and I'll be really interested to see how someone new to the show reacts to it - to me it made absolutely no sense within the world they have built in the episode. There is no hint that the 4 have been specifically targeted by the Trollocs. I loved *loved* Padan Fain's small cameo and him disappearing as the Trollocs attacked, but I really wish there had been a dragon fang on scene that showed the 4 of their families were targeted at the very least. Just something to convince them to go, because it made no sense to me - especially in broad daylight with the entire Two Rivers looking at them. Nobody challenged the Aes Sedai, not one of them? 

 

 

The more you poke at something like that the more it really doesn't hold up and is quite a disappointment for what is, really, the key inciting incident of the entire series. 

 

That really is my main gripe and disappointment, outside of that I have small issues that I wish had been handled better. I really loved the Darkfriend reveal in episode 3 (apart from her chasing them through the village, that seemed silly). I liked Thom after initial hesitation with him, he was a good conduit for info dumping about the Aiel and it was done well. I thought the opening of showing a male channeler with the madness being caught was a really great idea of an opener - but something about the execution of that scene was a little off. But overall I liked it. I like the Perrin change for the television show, it doesn't sit well with me moreso because of who I know Perrin to be from the books, but I think for the show it makes sense to lay the groundwork for his issues further down the line. I also love that there are already theories about whether his wife was a DF - if the show can get the WoT FAQ up and running again with theories that will be wonderful ha! 

 

The Whitecloaks - an excellent introduction and really sinister to show the hands cut off the Aes Sedai. That scene serves as brilliant set up for when the gang meet the Whitecloaks on the road, which is a great scene for teaching us that the Aes Sedai can tell the truth in many ways, which in turn can feed in to a distrust of them. Excellent. 

 

Nynaeve I was not sure on from episode 1, but I really enjoyed her in episode 3 and thought there was some nice groundwork for her and Lan's relationship. 

 

The change to Mat's family is understandable in some ways but I felt like they went a little overboard, especially with showing his mother almost as a drug addict or something? And then it seemed like she was badly grief-stricken in the lantern scene? So did they lose a son or daughter or something? It felt like a change that wasn't executed well at all. But Mat overall I like, the only thing I'd have liked to see would be some skill with knives vs. a Trolloc in that first episode, but being honest I can't remember if it was Thom who taught him all of that in the books. 

 

I was disappointed not to get any of Tam's fever dreams but I must say I think/hope that will come in a future episode as a flashback for Rand as he struggles with who he is. That is probably my other main gripe, I feel as though there hasn't been much in terms of who the Dragon is out of the 4, just that it is one of them. There's been very little questioning about their pasts, and I would have thought if you make Egwene a live candidate to be the DR, then the conversation with Moiraine teaching her a little of the Power would be a lot more... loaded? Rand's dream with BZ and the others having different versions is probably the first hint that he is different, and then him knocking down the door was not at all subtle. Coupled with Thom's infodump on the Aiel and the focus on the red hair,  I think any mystery about the DR will be gone by now. So I hope they don't lean in to it too much more and focus more on Rand struggling against the idea that it is him. 

 

My other main annoyance is that Lan has not called Rand sheepherder yet, and there hasn't been any talk of the Void or heron marked blades. 

 

 

 

 

I mean, I certainly disagree there was no setup to leave. Moraine clearly told them if they stayed, they would all die, along with their families. The fades and Trollocs would come back in force if they stayed. I think thats more than enough setup to get them to leave, after witnessing the slaughter of a bunch of villagers and believing it's their fault.

 

The show definitely has problems, but I don't know what people were expecting. There is absolutely no way to to create this show beat for beat with the book beyond making it 14 terrible seasons of 26 episodes each, which would end up being about the terrible, campy, quality of the Sword of Truth tv series (not that those books were much better than the show).

Edited November 19, 2021 by Apoc81

[Meskell]

I assume for the sake of cost they have ignored the smooth ageless face of the AES Sedai?

[notpropaganda73]

18 minutes ago, Mnemosyne said:

 

I imagine that's because they're trying to maintain the "Who is the Dragon Reborn?" mystery and that would give too much away. I wouldn't worry too much, I'm sure it will come!

 

I agree, but I think there hasn't been enough of that side of things either! I'm just being greedy I know. But as I said that is more a minor disappointment, just like there hasn't been any groundwork of Lan and Rand forming a relationship. One of my favourite parts of the books is Lan sort of prepping Rand with how to deal with the Aes Sedai, but he has said nothing to them so far outside of explaining Shadar Logoth. I think there was a good opportunity when Moiraine is teaching Egwene about the power to have a scene of Lan trying to teach the boys how to defend themselves a little, and even just a comment about a heron marked blade or Rand reaching for the Void. Just a nod to us book lovers! But as I said, I'm being greedy ha

 

7 minutes ago, Apoc81 said:

I mean, I certainly disagree there was no setup to leave. Moraine clearly told them if they atayed, they would all die, along with their families. The fades and Trollocs would come back in force if they stayed. I think thats more than enough setup to get them to leave, after witnessing the slaughter of a bunch of villagers and believing it's their fault.

 

The show definitely has problems, but I don't know what people were expecting. There is absolutely no way to to create this show beat for beat with the show beyong making it 14 terrible seasons of 26 episodes each, which would end up being about the terrible, campy, quality of the Sword of Truth tv series (not that those books were much better than the show).

 

I think you're misunderstanding what I'm expecting with regards to the leavetaking. Setup is not a sentence two seconds before the payoff, it's more like foreshadowing or planting a seed in the audiences mind. An example of great setup in the very next episode is what I highlighted with the Whitecloaks. They set up the danger with Whitecloaks, which makes us tense in that scene where Moiraine meets them - and we have been previously set up about the Three Oaths and are then shown how we still cannot trust everything an Aes Sedai says. I think that is all brilliantly set up and paid off. I also think they are setting up Perrin's Wolfbrother story well. Shadar Logoth was well set up but the pay off happened too quickly to have the proper impact. I hope they handle The Ways better than SL. 

 

One other scene showing Moiraine narrowing her search down to the 4, or a scene giving the 4 of them *some* reason to believe and trust her, and it would probably have worked. But it happened too fast, and with the implications for one of the boys especially being the DR, they went along with it too easily - as did their families and the whole of Emonds Field. 

 

I am absolutely not advocating a beat for beat recreation of the books, that would be terrible. 

[MasterAblar]

16 minutes ago, Apoc81 said:

I mean, I certainly disagree there was no setup to leave. Moraine clearly told them if they atayed, they would all die, along with their families. The fades and Trollocs would come back in force if they stayed. I think thats more than enough setup to get them to leave, after witnessing the slaughter of a bunch of villagers and believing it's their fault.

Yes but there’s absolutely no reason to believe her. Especially Rand Mat and Perrin who haven’t even talked to her.

 

In the books I’m fairly certain their houses were singled out by the Trollocs and that’s how Moiraine convinced them they were being hunted and staying would put everyone in danger. Without that information it’s just them trusting a complete stranger for no reason.

[Apoc81]

6 minutes ago, MasterAblar said:

Yes but there’s absolutely no reason to believe her. Especially Rand Mat and Perrin who haven’t even talked to her.

 

In the books I’m fairly certain their houses were singled out by the Trollocs and that’s how Moiraine convinced them they were being hunted and staying would put everyone in danger. Without that information it’s just them trusting a complete stranger for no reason.

Theres plenty of reasons to believe her. She's an Aes Sedai, the village had just been attacked. The villagers know Aes Sedai don't lie. 

 

Again, trying to equate book pacing with screen pacing is absurd. You can't draw something out on screen while still making it feel rushed, and its important they were rushed.

 

Again, stop looking for a beat for beat remake, it won't work.

[Arthellion]

So. After recovering from an epic watch through. Here are my thoughts. My TLDR: 7.5 out of 10 for first 3 episodes.

 

Loved

-Josha as Rand. Of the younger actors, he nailed the character the best. Absolutely loved every scene with him and, of the characters, I felt he was most true to his book counterpart. I can easily see him carrying this show. He just has a natural charisma and presence that I can see covering the full range of who Rand is.

-Trollocs: I actually loved their design and how visceral they felt. Very terrifying.

-The One Power: Boom. I literally teared up as moraine devastated the Trollocs. The fight scene itself could've been done better, but the One Power made up for all of that. Probably best scene of magic I've ever seen on television.

-Thom. I actually really loved this version of Thom. The way he carried himself was just so on point.

 

Liked

-All the characters but Mat. 

-Beautiful scenery and vistas.

-Manetheren!

-Subtlety of Moraine and Nynaeve

 

Disliked

-Mat. He lacks all of the heart from the original character. Idk. I'm actually happy we're getting an actor change. Maybe he can bring the gravitas to Mat's character.

-The Tinkers: They lacked  the color I would've expected. Not bad...but kinda stilted.

 

Hated

-The pacing. I hope future seasons have more like 10-12 episodes. 8 episodes is entirely too short. There were so many moments that could have added to the depth of the show like: Lan training Rand on the road. Moraine speaking with all of the 4 before the trolloc attack. etc. They really need more episodes in the season.  I'll just also add, this actually isn't necessarily a bad thing because it means I want more of the show. I want more of these characters. I want more epic one power scenes. Ultimately, the fact that pacing is an issue is a testament to the quality we do have. I just want more of it. 

Edited November 19, 2021 by Arthellion

[Mnemosyne]

Did anyone understand what was going on with the blue stone that Mat took from the Aiel? Am I missing something embarrassingly obvious?

[Apoc81]

5 minutes ago, Arthellion said:

So. After recovering from an epic watch through. Here are my thoughts. My TLDR: 7.5 out of 10 for first 3 episodes.

 

Loved

-Josha as Rand. Of the younger actors, he nailed the character the best. Absolutely loved every scene with him and, of the characters, I felt he was most true to his book counterpart. I can easily see him carrying this show. He just has a natural charisma and presence that I can see covering the full range of who Rand is.

-Trollocs: I actually loved their design and how visceral they felt. Very terrifying.

-The One Power: Boom. I literally teared up as moraine devastated the Trollocs. The fight scene itself could've been done better, but the One Power made up for all of that. Probably best scene of magic I've ever seen on television.

-Thom. I actually really loved this version of Thom. The way he carried himself was just so on point.

 

Liked

-All the characters but Mat. 

-Beautiful scenery and vistas.

-Manetheren!

-Subtlety of Moraine and Nynaeve

 

Disliked

-Mat. He lacks all of the heart from the original character. Idk. I'm actually happy we're getting an actor change. Maybe he can bring the gravitas to Mat's character.

-The Tinkers: They lacked  the color I would've expected. Not bad...but kinda stilted.

 

Hated

-The pacing. I hope future seasons have more like 10-12 episodes. 8 episodes is entirely too short. There were so many moments that could have added to the depth of the show like: Lan training Rand on the road. Moraine speaking with all of the 4 before the trolloc attack. etc. They really need more episodes in the season.  I'll just also add, this actually isn't necessarily a bad thing because it means I want more of the show. I want more of these characters. I want more epic one power scenes. Ultimately, the fact that pacing is an issue is a testament to the quality we do have. I just want more of it. 

Agreed on Mat, im really glad he is out, and a new actor is on the way in. He's been terrible. 

I won't agree on pacing until we see where they go with it. So far, the rush in e1&2 worked for me, and I really liked Episode 3.

[Meskell]

I kind of feel like they are rushing the pacing to get the dragon reborn mystery out of the way this season. 
 

It was never really hidden from readers in the series, so I imagine they wouldn’t want 2-3 seasons of it hanging over them, which is probably why they are going to run through books 2-3 in this season alone before slowing it down. 
 

I do have a huge problem with the channeling though. It just looks so cheap and I am struggling to picture how it will be scaled up for the larger battles. 
 

I can get on board with Tam’s fever dream not being included, unless it was modified to say that basically all of the kids are orphans from a battle, which would have been mental and a worse compromise. They will probably include the fever dream as a flash back when Rand becomes ill at some point

[MasterAblar]

4 minutes ago, Apoc81 said:

Theres plenty of reasons to believe her. She's an Aes Sedai, the village had just been attacked. The villagers know Aes Sedai don't lie. 

 

Again, trying to equate book pacing with screen pacing is absurd. You can't draw something out on screen while still making it feel rushed, and its important they were rushed.

 

Again, stop looking for a beat for beat remake, it won't work.

Nowhere did I say I’m looking for a beat for beat remake. That would be stupid and terrible. But when character behave in ways that strains credulity, then it’s an issue.

 

Villagers don’t trust Aes Sedai and moreso don’t know truth from legend when it comes to them anyway. There’s a reason the whole village was hostile to Moiraine after the attack in the books. You need to give some reason for the boys to go along. One conversation, perhaps her giving them the coins would at least have helped. At best you could argue that Perrin is shell shocked from killing his wife.

 

Obviously this doesn’t ruin the episode, let alone the series. But it definitely contributes to the episode coming across as too rushed.

[Meskell]

Just now, MasterAblar said:

Nowhere did I say I’m looking for a beat for beat remake. That would be stupid and terrible. But when character behave in ways that strains credulity, then it’s an issue.

 

Villagers don’t trust Aes Sedai and moreso don’t know truth from legend when it comes to them anyway. There’s a reason the whole village was hostile to Moiraine after the attack in the books. You need to give some reason for the boys to go along. One conversation, perhaps her giving them the coins would at least have helped. At best you could argue that Perrin is shell shocked from killing his wife.

 

Obviously this doesn’t ruin the episode, let alone the series. But it definitely contributes to the episode coming across as too rushed.

That’s my issue. Happy for the pacing to be increased but for them to just saunter off with no push back didn’t make any sense in the context of a village that sees a couple of outsiders a year. 

[notpropaganda73]

4 minutes ago, Apoc81 said:

Theres plenty of reasons to believe her. She's an Aes Sedai, the village had just been attacked. The villagers know Aes Sedai don't lie. 

 

Again, trying to equate book pacing with screen pacing is absurd. You can't draw something out on screen while still making it feel rushed, and its important they were rushed.

 

Again, stop looking for a beat for beat remake, it won't work.

Who is asking for that when criticising that scene?

 

I've praised other parts of the show which are not anywhere in the books, so it's clear I'm not looking for a beat for beat remake. The leave-taking scene just simply doesn't work. There has been no set up that Moiraine has narrowed her search to the 4 of them. There has been no indication that the Trollocs are targeting the 4 of them alone. There is no actual answer to Rand's accusation that she arrives and then the Trollocs arrive (other than it's silly to think that as she then goes on to kill Trollocs, but the same accusation happens in the books). 

 

The show did a poor job of 1. giving the characters reason to believe anything Moiraine has told them and 2. giving the audience reason to believe that the 4 of them are as important as Moiraine says, outside of "They just are". 

 

Like I said in my post there is a lot of the show I'm really happy with and outside of this scene and how they've generally handled the "mystery" of the DR, all my other gripes are just silly little things that I wish we had seen by now as a book lover, but they are not things I want them to recreate beat for beat, just to absolutely emphasise that, because you have repeated that point a couple times for some reason.

[Arthellion]

1 minute ago, Meskell said:

 

I do have a huge problem with the channeling though. It just looks so cheap and I am struggling to picture how it will be scaled up for the larger battles. 
 

 

This is really interesting to me. Because both I (book fan) and wife (never touched the books) were absolutely wowed by the one power scene. Felt like it was the best rendition of magic we've seen on television or film. (Maybe Doctor Strange beats it out, but aside from that...)

[Mnemosyne]

4 minutes ago, Arthellion said:

This is really interesting to me. Because both I (book fan) and wife (never touched the books) were absolutely wowed by the one power scene. Felt like it was the best rendition of magic we've seen on television or film. (Maybe Doctor Strange beats it out, but aside from that...)

 

Interesting, I thought it wasn't well-integrated and looked a bit "added-on" in that CGI way, although I was impressed with the visual itself and how it portrayed the weaves.

[Meskell]

4 minutes ago, Arthellion said:

This is really interesting to me. Because both I (book fan) and wife (never touched the books) were absolutely wowed by the one power scene. Felt like it was the best rendition of magic we've seen on television or film. (Maybe Doctor Strange beats it out, but aside from that...)

Don’t get me wrong, magic being portrayed on tv or film is normally terrible. Mainly looking at Harry Potter using sparks as a substitute for creativity. 
 

I think I just pictured something more ‘solid’ than what is shown.

[Arthellion]

2 minutes ago, Meskell said:

Don’t get me wrong, magic being portrayed on tv or film is normally terrible. Mainly looking at Harry Potter using sparks as a substitute for creativity. 
 

I think I just pictured something more ‘solid’ than what is shown.

Agreed on magic in general.

 

And that's really fascinating to me because my mental picture of the weaves were even more wispy than what we got in the show. Funny how different people visualize differently. 

[Guire]

I am kind of a sad panda today.  I really like casting choices.  I knew show was going to have many changes and more emphasis on female empowerment and modern social realities.  That was not a big issue to me.  But so far I think the ripple from changes and time constraints has made the show far less than it could have been.  They were too many moments when I got really excited about a scene and it just kind of fizzled out.  I hope this fixes itself or I will just return to books. 

[mogi68]

I'm really not a fan of how the writing team has cut important sequences in favor of filler. Like getting rid of Rand dragging Tam through the Westwood in the hopes of getting to Emond's Field (while evading trollocs and fades) - his reaction when arriving to the village is one of devastation and hopelessness. Instead, in the show he teleports with Tam and Bela to the village, and his reaction (while well acted on Josha's part) lacks the gravity that it would have if we saw him struggling all night. Not only that, but we lose Tam's fever dreams. As of the end of Episode 3, Rand still thinks that Tam is his father. There is no mention of Rand taking the sword from Tam, none of the boys mention it, and it's never brought up. The sword is a major part of Rand's identity in the first two books. He directly associates it with his upbringing and with how he thinks of Tam - it's his one link from his old life to his new one.

 

So with the elimination of that seemingly minor scene, we lose the major inner emotional conflict that Rand has in The Eye of the World. Not only that, but apparently the only reason he is traveling to Tar Valon is because of Egwene. There's no sense of duty to keep the shadow from the Two Rivers, and there's no sense of wanting to find answers to understand who/what he is. Also, he is apparently the "only person who never wanted to leave home". What happened to the daydreaming of distant lands, of carrying a sword and leaping about? The love for the Travels of Jain Farstrider?

 

Quote

Rand ignored the crowd. He took a seat on the edge of the old stone foundation, gathered his cloak around him, and stared at the inn door. Ghealdan. Tar Valon. The very names were strange and exciting. They were places he knew only from peddlers' news, and tales told by merchants' guards. Aes Sedai and wars and false Dragons: those were the stuff of stories told late at night in front of the fireplace, with one candle making strange shapes on the wall and the wind howling against the shutters. On the whole, he believed he would rather have blizzards and wolves. Still, it must be different out there, beyond the Two Rivers, like living in the middle of a gleeman's tale. An adventure. One long adventure. A whole lifetime of it.

 

 

How exactly are Rafe and Co getting the characters right again?

[flinn]

Very disappointed in the first 3 episodes. There are things I absolutely HATE and there are things that I like. Unfortunately, there is nothing that I "love", so the hate sticks out much much more than what I like..

 

 I HATE

 

 Thom Merrilin is freaking awful. I can literally go out into a crowd, throw a rock up into the air and whomever it hits would be a better singer than the crap performance we saw from Thom. He is supposed to be a MASTER GLEEMAN and former COURT BARD and his voice is AWFUL. Like he spent the past 2 months snorting all the cocaine in the world and then trying to sing. Now I am supposed to believe that scratch voice is filling up inns to hear that? I guarantee every village/town has much much more talented musicians over our Thom.

 

 Lan crying like a little baby that the water was TOO COLD for his sensitive little skin. Lan allowing Nynaeve not to just track him down, but SNEAK UP BEHIND HIM AND PUT A KNIFE TO HIS THROAT!!!!! Are you freaking kidding me? This guy survived the Aiel War but lets a villager sneak up and put a knife to his throat? Completely unbelievable. Now, anything cool he does will be unbelievable because we know he is crap at his job, he cant even handle a little bit of NOT HOT water.

 

Perrin killing his wife?!? I was 100% all for his wife being killed in the raid. That would have really given some insight to his completely obsessed, overprotective, ridiculous arc with Faile. Killing his wife completely changes that for me. Now I only see him as the person who killed his own wife. No sympathy for his struggles from now on. Whatever he does, doesn't matter, he killed his wife. Then he didnt even bury her. He left his wife laying on the ground and rode out of town. Now, maybe he simply didnt care about her, ok... thats fine, but then dont try to get sympathy for it.

 

 Then we have the Tinkers?!?! The most drab, grey, gloomy, threatening group of the show.

 

 Did Rafe even read the books?

[Calembel]

10 minutes ago, flinn said:

 

 Did Rafe even read the books?

I wouldn't be shocked if he didn't.

[notpropaganda73]

11 minutes ago, flinn said:

Lan crying like a little baby that the water was TOO COLD for his sensitive little skin. Lan allowing Nynaeve not to just track him down, but SNEAK UP BEHIND HIM AND PUT A KNIFE TO HIS THROAT!!!!! Are you freaking kidding me? This guy survived the Aiel War but lets a villager sneak up and put a knife to his throat? Completely unbelievable. Now, anything cool he does will be unbelievable because we know he is crap at his job, he cant even handle a little bit of NOT HOT water.

 

 

I really find it hard to take your post seriously when you're getting so het up about Lan wanting a hot bath.