tv show spoilers S1E7: The Dark Along the Ways

[Gothic Flame]

  On 12/17/2021 at 12:29 PM, Raezold said:

But at least they're consistent with the girl power trope so I guess we could give them points for that.

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Add in a woman in labor fighting... 

[Jaysen Gore]

  On 12/17/2021 at 2:26 PM, nsmallw said:

 "the flame and void during archery,"  I didn't really see the connection watching the episode. I know contrasting the two bow shooting sessions kinda hinted at it but I was hoping for a more visual or noise action to show off the flame/void.  Kinda like the Min part where the stars/darkness fighting for control...I was hoping for a better visualization on that also. 

Thoughts please 

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My take on this was that Rand was so flummoxed because of his conflict with Perrin / Egwene / DR status that he couldn't achieve the void, and kept missing. But after settling in his own mind (Egwene to TV, and lie about being her warder to give her peace), he was clear of conscience and ready to move - first confirm with Min, then grab Moiraine and leave. So he was at peace, and able to achieve the void.

[Reader]

  On 12/17/2021 at 11:55 AM, qlorin said:

Mat vs. Red Ajah... Wait what?... Why?...
 

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Maybe just moving pieces on the board?  How do you get Liandrin and Mat2.0 to Fal Dara for the start of season 2.

[Jaysen Gore]

  On 12/17/2021 at 2:51 PM, Reader said:

Maybe just moving pieces on the board?  How do you get Liandrin and Mat2.0 to Fal Dara for the start of season 2.

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Predictions to come later, but my quick take on this is Mat goes with the WG and Liandrin straight to Falme after PF steals the <<spoiler, and desperate hope>>

[sw0mp_d0nk3y]

Quick logic check:

 

When they are in the mines of Moria, Moraine says that it is a days walk to the Eye of the World Waygate.  Then they have to hurry and just get to the closest waygate, which takes them to a place where it is still only a days walk to the Eye of the World.  Shouldn't that have been their destination then, in the first place?

[Ralph]

  On 12/17/2021 at 6:58 AM, Therese Sedai said:

Really enjoyed the episode and I only have one question.
 

So Rand shows up to Moiraine’s room and is just like “it me” and Moiraine’s just like “aight let’s go.”  
 

Did I miss something from earlier in the episode or is the audience just meant to not read too much into it. Seems like Moiraine would want to know for sure that it’s him before rushing away with him to what could be both their deaths. 

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She knew from the Ways that a man channelled

[Ralph]

  On 12/17/2021 at 2:53 PM, sw0mp_d0nk3y said:

Quick logic check:

 

When they are in the mines of Moria, Moraine says that it is a day's walk to the Eye of the World Waygate.  Then they have to hurry and just get to the closest waygate, which takes them to a place where it is still only a days walk to the Eye of the World.  Shouldn't that have been their destination then, in the first place?

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They get to Fal Dara in less than a day, but they still have a days walk the next day. If they went to the way gate near the Eye they would be a day in the Ways, but much nearer upon arrival

[ManetherenTaveren]

  On 12/17/2021 at 8:57 AM, Therese Sedai said:

Nyn and Lan happened far too quickly for my liking too but I think it’s to speed up Moiraine’s decision to break the bond. 

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Do you think she will? I hope not. I like the inherent conflict and forced balance between M & L & N. 

  Reveal hidden contents

Moraine's sudden and dramatic disappearance (and Lan "failing" to protect her) should be the ultimate test for Lan...and Nynaeve. Will he still "feel" Moraine while she is in Finnland? In any case, Lan will not take the "easy" Stepin route and will realize his rehashed destiny! Also, Lan getting force-bonded by Myrelle or another Aes Sedai to "save" him (if the showrunner goes that way) could provide interesting conflict for Nynaeve as her story becomes more critical.  

 

[wotfan4472]

  On 12/17/2021 at 5:32 AM, DigificWriter said:

A misreading of things by Nynaeve and an angry and boneheaded accusation from Rand don't equal a love triangle.

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Indeed. In the books, all that scene means is "t.v shows's version of annoying miscommunication, even in the critically bad moments". 

This episode is my favourite of them all, so far, and I have enjoyed them all.

Seeing this was a fun experience. 

Edited December 17, 2021 by wotfan4472

[TheDreadReader]

  On 12/17/2021 at 2:53 PM, sw0mp_d0nk3y said:

Quick logic check:

 

When they are in the mines of Moria, Moraine says that it is a days walk to the Eye of the World Waygate.  Then they have to hurry and just get to the closest waygate, which takes them to a place where it is still only a days walk to the Eye of the World.  Shouldn't that have been their destination then, in the first place?

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I think the original plan was to use a waygate that might be in the blight.  Maybe there was on in Malkier or in another unnamed location close by.   Lan mentions Fal Dara like it was a second/better choice once they could see that they were in danger.

 

That's my take anyway. 

 

 

[DermidAjala]

  On 12/17/2021 at 2:51 PM, Reader said:

Maybe just moving pieces on the board?  How do you get Liandrin and Mat2.0 to Fal Dara for the start of season 2.

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I don't think either will get to Fal Dara. I think it's quite plausible we resume Mat's plotline from book 3 having been brought to the Tower by the Reds and Falme's finale will be condensed into Tear for the major moments.

[DojoToad]

Thanks for all the thoughts - both positive and negative, but this is the end of the road for me.  Shame too as it sounds like they finally got a decent fight scene with the blood snow - so there is hope, maybe...

 

There was just too much personally I couldn't get over.  I liked several changes from books to show, but there were more I didn't like and/or understand.  Beyond that, even scenes that were true to books (or new that I liked the concept) weren't executed well through dialog, filming, creative choices, or whatever.  In the end the show wasn't made for me, it was made for broad appeal and just missed my sweet spot.  I know what I like and this isn't it, which is okay because there is other stuff out there that I do like - so I'll sink more in those things.

 

In any case, I haven't watched since episode 4 so my opinion isn't very relevant any longer.  I'm just reacting to what other people have seen and I'm not adding much value.  I'll see what trouble I can get into on the book side.  Tai'shar Dragonmount!

 

[TheDreadReader]

  On 12/17/2021 at 3:08 PM, wotfan4472 said:

Indeed. In the books, all that scene means is "t.v shows's version of annoying miscommunication, even in the critically bad moments". 

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That's my take on it as well but it has some character justification.

 

Nynaeve is stressed by the conversation and she deflects by doing the "yeah, what about this other thing" to remove what she's stressed by.

 

Also, the surface conflict between Rand and Perrin is "Egwene" but they are both hiding information from the others.  For example, we have no reason to think that Perrin has said anything about Leila's death to Rand.  And, there is no reason to think that Rand has said anything about Tam's fever dream to Perrin.  So, there is some subtextual stuff going on as well.

 

Of the non-reader reactions that I've seen none have highlighted this scene as a problem.   It may be book-reader problem (since we have knowledge of the book characters) and not a general problem.

 

[CaddySedai]

  On 12/17/2021 at 2:53 PM, sw0mp_d0nk3y said:

Quick logic check:

 

When they are in the mines of Moria, Moraine says that it is a days walk to the Eye of the World Waygate.  Then they have to hurry and just get to the closest waygate, which takes them to a place where it is still only a days walk to the Eye of the World.  Shouldn't that have been their destination then, in the first place?

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  On 12/17/2021 at 3:00 PM, Ralph said:

They get to Fal Dara in less than a day, but they still have a days walk the next day. If they went to the way gate near the Eye they would be a day in the Ways, but much nearer upon arrival

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  On 12/17/2021 at 3:19 PM, TheDreadReader said:

 

I think the original plan was to use a waygate that might be in the blight.  Maybe there was on in Malkier or in another unnamed location close by.   Lan mentions Fal Dara like it was a second/better choice once they could see that they were in danger.

 

That's my take anyway. 

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If you look at a map you would see the only closer waygate would be the one in the fallen nation of Malkier. That, at the time, is deep into the Blight and they would have emerged in a hostile area with no chance to resupply or get intel on the area. 

 

It wouldn’t have even saved all that much time. 

 

Fal Dara was a much safer and reliable choice. 

 

That and the television plot gods had to make Moiraine hunt down Min ?

Edited December 17, 2021 by CaddySedai

[TheDreadReader]

  On 12/17/2021 at 3:21 PM, DermidAjala said:

 

I don't think either will get to Fal Dara. I think it's quite plausible we resume Mat's plotline from book 3 having been brought to the Tower by the Reds and Falme's finale will be condensed into Tear for the major moments.

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Yes.  I think Mat stays in TV, we get the black ajah abduction of Egwene to Falme, and Mat chases after them.   Given Egwene's comments related to Mat in this episode, it is a good way to subvert some expectations while actually showing that she doesn't understand Mat's character.

 

[sw0mp_d0nk3y]

  On 12/17/2021 at 3:00 PM, Ralph said:

They get to Fal Dara in less than a day, but they still have a days walk the next day. If they went to the way gate near the Eye they would be a day in the Ways, but much nearer upon arrival

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Right, they would have had a days walk either way, so why stay in the Ways any longer than necessary?  Probably better to walk in the real world.

[WheelofJuke]

  On 12/17/2021 at 2:14 PM, Mnemosyne said:

 

This is only true if you believe that sex "cheapens" relationships. I felt it simply added another dimension to Lan and Nynaeve's relationship.

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Respectfully disagree.

 

One may feel that sex does NOT necessarily cheapen relationships, and at the same time feel that delayed gratification through a tense, uncertain build up of romance *adds* to the relationship. 

 

I'm far from a prude. But I found the "cheapening" of the slow burn of their feelings for each other in the books unfortunate; as the tension created from the uncertainty of whether or not they would be able to realize their love for each other brought much to their characters.  

Edited December 17, 2021 by WheelofJuke
Edited for clarity of thought.

[CaddySedai]

  On 12/17/2021 at 3:23 PM, DojoToad said:

  I'll see what trouble I can get into on the book side.  Tai'shar Dragonmount!

 

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Also social side, come bug us over there ?

[WhiteVeils]

My thoughts...though a rewatch bears repeating.

 

1) Perrin/Egwene/Rand:  The amount of Perrin/Egwene there was in the books actually does match the amount shown in the show. Perrin 'thinks' in his scenes that he loves Egwene, but she was Rand's...he even tells Elyas that.  He never told either Egwene nor Rand nor anyone else at all what he felt, and never made any move in that direction. In the show, the only difference to what's in the books is that Perrin went on to marry Laila, who he did love, afterwards, and Nynaeve, who had known them all since they were kids, knew Perrin had carried a torch for Egwene and, using an extremely low blow, brought it up in an entirely inappropriate fashion. She doesn't owe an apology to Egwene...she owes one to Perrin.  A big one.  It's not a love triangle....it's a man who had moved on, and a Wisdom who, in her temper, used it as ammunition in the worst way possible.  I doubt she'll apologize, but it's a mark against her.

2) Sending the Red Ajah after Mat:  So, with the recasting, we have to move Mat back to the 'storyline' track, where the scripts were written to go along with the stories in the books, at some point.  There are a couple of ways to do this.

1. You can try to bring Mat back to the 'gang' as quickly as possible so they can pick up the story right away in Season 2 with as few changes as possible.
2. You can bring back in a bit later in Season 2, and have the others doing the 'Season 2' story, with Mat doing something else and then joining at a significantly later point in the Season 2 story after having done his own adventure.
3. You can have Mat be entirely independent through the story of the Great Hunt and have him skip to his parts in the 3rd book where the character gets more independence and more like 'himself' that we are familiar with.

So which will they choose?   Book Spoilers: The Great Hunt
 

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Right now, if they want to do option 1, they have opened two options to get Mat to Fal Dara as quickly as possible.  
The first, they can have Padan Fain and his Trollocs have kidnapped Mat and brought him with them through the ways.  Once in Fal Dara, early in Season 2, he escapes or is rescued and Padan Fain is captured.  Padan Fain can have somehow gotten the dagger, and if Mat touched it at all during his or escaping from his captivity, then you have the setup for The Great Hunt where the dagger will need to be retrieved in order to save Mat's life.

The second is that the Red Sisters capture Mat and Aes Sedai bring him with them to Fal Dara after realizing he can't channel, when they come to 'retrieve' Egwene and Nynaeve to return them to the tower.  This doesn't resolve the dagger, but an encounter with Padan Fain later could, or someone could have slipped it to him, or he could have stolen it and hidden it and still have it. Something like that.

If they go with Option 2, they could have Mat with Padan Fain's trolloc's for longer (less in TV time of course) and have Rand rescue him when he first retrieves the horn before he gets to Cahrien.  Or better yet, have Mat escape with the horn by himself and meet Rand before Cahrien just so he has something to do this season.
Alternatively, he can be lost or captive in Tar Valon all through until Egwene and Nynaeve get sent by Liandrin to the Seanchen, and he could be sent off with them to 'help Rand', and the story could be him taking the place of Min in the Seanchen bit of the Great Hunt.  Or Mat goes to rescue them when he finds out what happens.  That gives Rand more time to have a relationship with Min 'on the road' and Mat some hero-y things to do too.

If they go with option 3....well, it's fine, but it'll be a little hard to get the stories in synch, so I don't know what they 'll do.
 

 

 

Edited December 17, 2021 by WhiteVeils

[Sabio]

 

  On 12/17/2021 at 3:30 PM, CaddySedai said:

If you look at a map you would see the only closer waygate would be the fallen city of Malkier. That, at the time, is deep into the Blight and they would have emerged in a hostile area with no chance to resupply or get intel on the area. 

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Yep suddenly just appearing in the Blight would be a bad idea, especially since that is the Waygate the Trollocs are most likely using.  Stop in Fal Dara, get some Min visions and maybe Moiraine can figure out who the Dragon is before they leave.  Give some of the group one last chance to boink one another.

Edited December 17, 2021 by Sabio

[Sabio]

  On 12/17/2021 at 3:33 PM, WhiteVeils said:

Sending the Red Ajah after Mat:  So, with the recasting, we have to move Mat back to the 'storyline' track, where the scripts were written to go along with the stories in the books, at some point.

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Mat is going to get treated so badly by the Reds he is going to look like a totally different person.

[CaddySedai]

  On 12/17/2021 at 3:36 PM, Sabio said:

Mat is going to get treated so badly by the Reds he is going to look like a totally different person.

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I mean, thats totally canon tho. 

 

Not about mat, just Reds in general *innocent face*

[Sabio]

  On 12/17/2021 at 3:37 PM, CaddySedai said:

 

I mean, thats totally canon tho. 

 

Not about mat, just Reds in general *innocent face*

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Someone needs to put Red in their portrait instead of Green.  No defending Reds.

[TheDreadReader]

  On 12/17/2021 at 3:30 PM, CaddySedai said:

That and the television plot gods had to make Moiraine hunt down Min ?

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I have absolutely no issues with hunting down Min.  It made me very happy to see her.

 

 

[Daenelia]

  On 12/17/2021 at 3:32 PM, WheelofJuke said:

Respectfully disagree.

 

One may feel that sex does NOT necessarily cheapen relationships, and at the same time feel that delayed gratification through a tense, uncertain build up of romance *adds* to the relationship. 

 

I'm far from a prude. But I found the "cheapening" of the slow burn of their feelings for each other in the books unfortunate; as the tension created from the uncertainty of whether or not they would be able to realize their love for each other brought much to their characters.  

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It's a personal thing I suppose. I think for Nyn to take the lead and go into the bedroom knowing full well what she wanted was a great thing.

 

I am not one to pine and long and be wishy-washy either. I've been in a long distance relationship and trust me: pining and longing is way way way overrated.