tv show spoilers S1E6: The Flame of Tar Valon

[Jearom Gaidin]

4 minutes ago, jh557 said:

 

I agree with that part that it is some kind of Ter'angrel. My Dreamer thought came from her saying she had the same dream over and over again for weeks about the DO and the Eye of the World while she and Moiraine were wherever the Ter-angrel led to. They used this to introduce the need to go to the Eye, but I feel that the original introduction in the books of Ishy telling the EF kids that the Eye would not serve them while in their dreams and then Loial recalling an Aiel saying Sightblinder intended to bling the eye as a stronger way to introduce this than through Siuan's dreams or at least Siaun's dreams alone. 

Didn’t have enough time in show to do as in books…

This Ter’amgreal picture for siuan is her way into TAR so she can see these dreams, good way for show to introduce the dreamworld to non-readers.

I have a post recently on the projecting of dreams in TAR in the Dragon Reborn which focuses on both the mechanics as well as intent for Rahvin, Sammael, and Be’lal in that particular book. While I guessed on mechanics and was confirmed  by another forum member in that regard the intent on the dream projections is a subjective matter open to debate amongst book readers.

For interpretations regarding siuan that you mentioned Ba’alzamon would have to be very close and targeting siuan and her dreams would have to be not warded unless she was in TAR frequently according to mechanics of the book.

 

[lsm]

hello,

 

everyone of these episodes on first watch I cringe and think of the books. However just like the books that I've picked up over and over again, I rewatch the episodes and tell myself 'okay' that works. I rewatch a third time and fist bump it

 

E6 was pretty decent I think.

 

But here's my big question. Someone in this thread said there was boobs. Can anyone confirm and cite where and when? Thanks.

Edited December 10, 2021 by lsm

[JimGalaxy]

4 hours ago, Frenata said:

Maigan: "ships disappearing in the west"

Me: "reeeeeee"

... I totally didn't even put two and two together on that one!! Thank you for this ? 

[JimGalaxy]

4 hours ago, The Purple Ajah said:

I am pretty sure that the final scene was due to Barney Harris's departure. I can't really think why they would separate Mat from the rest otherwise, especially since he was Healed early, which frees up a lot of his TGH storyline. They were using the same footage of Mat a couple of times, or at least that seemed to be the case.

It's a fair point, and you may well be right. On a positive note, I noted that IMDB credits Harris with appearances in all 8 episodes of season one. ... I *really* hope they don't just go to his 'image in clips' in 7 and 8; that would be regrettable. 

[JimGalaxy]

4 hours ago, Pandemonium said:

Everything is moving so fast!  10 episodes so badly needed in the future if they are going to focus on all these secondary characters so much.  

Mercy, do I *ever* agree with this. Truth of even an extremely-well-funded production like Amazon's, is that there are likely eight seasons max (we hope we hope); and if each has eight eps ... that's 64. ... 64 for the whole series (!) Tonight, we're nearing 10% through, and so they're *behind* that curve of *eight ... years*. They actually have to cut *more* than they've been cutting, to get to the Last Battle with any hope of doing justice to it. Monumental challenge.

[JimGalaxy]

4 hours ago, ManetherenTaveren said:

- I'll just mention Allana's green outfit, just because ?

 

... yuh-huh. *NODS* ... she's channeling her inner Deanna Troi in season 1 ? ... then again, RJ did have a thing for descriptions of low-cut necklines ... ?

[zacz1987]

Did anyone notice in the last scene Moiraine says ' I didn't tell you everything before because I didn't trust you, but now....' She looks like she trys to say 'now I trust you' but physically can't because of the Oaths. So Moiraine still doesn't 100% trust the Two Rivers folks (and understandably so).

[JimGalaxy]

2 hours ago, Skipp said:

And just as an aside, my Wife is really enjoying the show.  This was her favourite episode along with 4 and 5.  Of course my excitement for the show might be rubbing off on her.

Same. For the first time, tonight, *she* suggested that we watch the show as it was released. ... and, I was nonplused by the ep overall (it's ... 'ok'), but she liked it quite a bit. Good sign. lol

[flinn]

  I understand they did it to move the plot, but I cant help but find it lazy writing that Moiraine didnt have a good reason already established for why she has been gone for 2 years. Even something as simple as "I have been recruiting", which technically would be true.

[Deadsy]

55 minutes ago, lsm said:

But here's my big question. Someone in this thread said there was boobs. Can anyone confirm and cite where and when? Thanks.

 

 

In the Moiraine bath scene there are boobs all over. 

[Deadsy]

1 minute ago, flinn said:

  I understand they did it to move the plot, but I cant help but find it lazy writing that Moiraine didnt have a good reason already established for why she has been gone for 2 years. Even something as simple as "I have been recruiting", which technically would be true.

 

 

Agreed but I'm mostly ignoring it. There's no way she and Siuan wouldn't have gone over this scenario. In fact Siuan could've come up with a better question also. That said, Moiraine getting exiled isn't a huge deal for her (other than being apart from Siuan possibly permanently) and it helps their cover story even more.

[DaddyFinn]

A solid episode. Not the most entertaining and best for me, but solid. ?

[JimGalaxy]

1 hour ago, Jearom Gaidin said:

Those are some great questions!! The books led us to believe Ishamael was the DO many times and confused Rand and others for three straight books so looks like show is going in a similar vein there.

 

Green man would be fun but difficult to pull off so probably ok if that's cut out.

 

I hope we see Balthamel and Aginor and some good special effects in the eye, would be a great into into the forsaken and their extreme channeling so hope that hooks some new fans of the show can do it well...

Great points about Rand thinking he'd gone head-to-head with DO. ... Now. iMDB is a bit of a spoiler for upcoming episodes (so, please - readers, if you're not into spoilers, STOP) ...

 

Spoiler

It's educational to browse iMDB for the cast & credits. Sadly, there's no 'Green Man', no 'Balthamel', no 'Aginor' listed for Season 1 ... they could always be named something else ... but there's also no 'Ish', no 'Dark', no 'Ba'al' etc. etc.

 

What we DO see, so far:

 

* Min finally comes in during Ep7.

* We see the actor cast as the 'ghost' of LTT in Ep8. That right there is an indication that Rand is starting to ... well. 'nuff said. ? 

* Padan Fain also makes a return in Ep8.

* There is a character 'Shienaran Woman' in Ep8, which indicates our heroes likely come out of the Ways at the right place, per the novels.

* Lady Amalisa (sister of Lord of Fal Dara) does make some sort of appearance in the next two eps.

* Elayne doesn't come in until 2022, which disappointed me ... etc. But ofc, as I understand it anyway, studios do pay actors for the episodes they appear in, so ...

 

For the type like me, who likes to 'read ahead' ... it's a good resource.

 

[JimGalaxy]

39 minutes ago, flinn said:

  I understand they did it to move the plot, but I cant help but find it lazy writing that Moiraine didnt have a good reason already established for why she has been gone for 2 years. Even something as simple as "I have been recruiting", which technically would be true.

... *nod*. I didn't think about it at the time, but something like 'I have been searching. And I have brought back two young candidates, who are among the most powerful any of us have ever seen'. That would have done it.

[zacz1987]

48 minutes ago, flinn said:

  I understand they did it to move the plot, but I cant help but find it lazy writing that Moiraine didnt have a good reason already established for why she has been gone for 2 years. Even something as simple as "I have been recruiting", which technically would be true.

 

Yes book Moiraine would never have acted this way. She would have had some excuse even if it was 'I was out learning ancient history'. Remember in the books she initially told the Two Rivers folk that she has a student of history with an interest in old stories. 

Edited December 10, 2021 by zacz1987

[lightrazor]

I do care what WoT fans think, but really this show sinks or swims as to how it plays out with non-WoT fans - I could be wrong, but by way of comparison GoT drew in a huge audience because it was good tv, which brings me back to WoT. Having seen Witcher and many other fantasy shows. this just isn't great tv.  I thought ep 5 was boring. Not much action or real intrigue plot and same with ep 6.  I think one commentator already said this but the person mentioned many of their non WoT friends are already out. I can't blame. So far I find the show pedestrian, plodding and boring.  I will watch every episode regardless as a WoT fan but I am so hoping the show gets a lot better. 

 

[JimGalaxy]

1 hour ago, flinn said:

 Going by the forsaken figurines Stepin was doing the ritual to, Balthamel and Aginor were not included.

... wow, flinn. That is next-level stuff; studying figurines in a still-shot. No lie - *much* respect.

[NetNightmare]

OK I did enjoy this episode, I think it was enjoyable (although I must admit I did it just once and it was 1 am) as soon as remember to disregard the books, as I am on the boat with BS here this is "based on" the WoT.

 

Trying to be book agnostic I would like to point out what it didn't sound likely\true:

 

- Moraine - Siuan secret plot didn't come up with a better Question&Answer combo that will not let them circumvent the three oath ?? doesn't sound very clever to me..

 

- Moraine oath was "ridiculous" at beast ... so your inside the hall of the tower swearing an exile oath and ... basically what ? whisper ? nobody cares what you are swearing at ? this get a big no no for me

 

- You call the "builder" , you ask something off him (which we can only guess) to do what ? be an errand boy to fetch some guys and bring them to you ? why do you need specifically him ? I guess an explanation is needed here ... ok maybe we will have next episode but still feel rushed.

 

once I will do a re watch tonight with my family will post some comment on the book vs Show side of it ?

 

Edited December 10, 2021 by NetNightmare

[jaylew]

Another long time book reader who found his way here several weeks ago due to the show. I've been reading every episode thread but this one finally got me to sign up and post.

 

I could make a list of all the little things I liked and didn't like and there's a chance I could come up with more things to nitpick or complain about than specific things I liked and I could maybe even convince myself that the episode wasn't good but I'd be lying to myself. I really, really liked it despite the changes from the book. I don't know if I can fully explain why, I just enjoyed watching it and was thoroughly engrossed. Definitely one of my 2 favorite episodes so far. I think it helps that it's been a long time since the last time I read EOTW so I'm not super hung up on every change. I've generally liked the episodes even more upon a subsequent viewing so I'm looking forward to that in a couple of days. 

 

Just a few specific comments: I really liked the Siuan Sanche stuff and think that actress did a really good job, particularly in the scenes when seated on the Amyrlin Seat. I was really worried about that role but I was immediately relieved by her performance in her first scene. All of the Aes Sedai have been good actually. Logain was awesome again. I liked Loial but I want more. Biggest complaint is I was really hoping for more Rand this episode. I need that soon, 

 

Overall, I've definitely liked (but not loved) the series so far. I have issues with certain aspects but I'm enjoying it and find myself really looking forward to it every week. Most of my complaints stem from the fact that they're trying to adapt a really long book into 8 episodes. Even the 2 extra episodes GOT got would help. Like many book readers I'm really hoping for an episode increase in subsequent seasons. Reviews are good so maybe that will help? Fwiw, I'm  watching along with a friend and my gf and they are both enjoying it. Neither has read the books but they are both fantasy/sci fi fans so that likely helps. 

[Harad the White]

The Dagger was wrapped up by Lan. Then what? Mebe, someone in the traveling party asks about the Dagger. Whoops, "It's gone!"

Cut back to Mat. Is PF about to take possession? And is Mat about to take that trip to the seashore he always wanted?

Edited December 10, 2021 by Harad the White

[The Purple Ajah]

1 hour ago, JimGalaxy said:

It's a fair point, and you may well be right. On a positive note, I noted that IMDB credits Harris with appearances in all 8 episodes of season one. ... I *really* hope they don't just go to his 'image in clips' in 7 and 8; that would be regrettable. 

The Barney stuff to be semi-confirmed by Dragonmount itself at this point. IMDb is reliable and you generally do need evidence to make edits that stand, but listing a main actor in all episodes usually wouldn't be contested. And perhaps there is an early script for instance that had Mat in episodes 7 and 8 that IMDb got, without taking into account a rewrite to Mat earlier this year due to behind the scenes events.

 

[JimGalaxy]

6 minutes ago, The Purple Ajah said:

 

 

... and, sadly, there are *tons* of precedents in the books - RJ left main characters off-stage for eons at a time before coming back to them. UGH.

[The Purple Ajah]

3 minutes ago, JimGalaxy said:

... and, sadly, there are *tons* of precedents in the books - RJ left main characters off-stage for eons at a time before coming back to them. UGH.

Yeah, Mat is getting the early Path of Daggers treatment.

 

I am not sure what they are going to do to bring him back, though we do have a year to theorize. It seemed unclear whether Mat got left behind because he was in a daze from being Healed, or because he didn't want to because some remaining evil of the dagger... after all, they could not shoot new footage with Barney, only edit what they already had.

 

The possibilities I see for bringing him back are that he goes back to Tar Valon for a while and is seen for the first time by Egwene and Nynaeve when they go to the Tower in early Season 2 (or even Elayne if she is a novice in Season 2), or if he tries to go ahead to Fal Dara to catch up with them and makes it by the first episode of Season 2.

[comicbooksarethebestthing]

 Siuan actress was amazing, but yet again Rand acting is the worst on the show. Sadly Matt actor is leaving

[NetNightmare]

8 minutes ago, comicbooksarethebestthing said:

but yet again Rand acting is the worst on the show

Well considering the Rand actoring consisted of

 

Rand getting pawned by Lan

Rand embracing Egwene

 

It isn't really fair he he