tv show spoilers S1E1: Leavetaking

[dholm]

I have to say, having just watched the first episode (and no others yet), I am distinctly not impressed.

 

Why is Emond's Field suddenly in the mountains? Manetheren was a mountain kingdom, yes, but it covered a much greater area than just the Two Rivers. Rand and Tam live in the Sand Hills, which are the foothills to the Mountains of Mist--and they are noted as living far away from most people. This is just weird.

 

Why the character assassination of Abell Cauthon and his wife? This just pissed me off.

 

Perrin killing his wife by accident? Good grief, that is just frustrating. It screams "we need to manufacture DRAMA! Quick, make up a wife and fridge her immediately!" Not sure I buy the idea that she was a Darkfriend; why would she fight the Trollocs, then? She'd have run off instead.

 

Nynaeve is an outsider? And was raised by a Wisdom? Uhh. Why?? It can't be for any misdirect with regards to who the Dragon is; Nynaeve is too old, as is made clear in the episode. Just to "explain" why she dislikes Aes Sedai? Blurgh. If that's the case, this is really poor writing. "Show, don't tell." We should have gotten a scene of people discussing Aes Sedai in negative terms instead, with dissenting opinions making it clear it isn't universal. That would be much better exposition. Also, apparently they know all about channelers, since the previous Wisdom knew to go to the White Tower when she learned she could listen to the wind.

 

The actors are okay, but most of them didn't give me much of an impression. The guy who plays Lan did really well. Rosamund Pike was... fine.

 

I had no problems with the opening, though. Red Sisters being bigoted towards men channeling is just as it should be.

 

I get that changes need to be made for the sake of adaptation, but for the vast majority of the changes I noticed, I could see no reason for. That is not exactly encouraging.

[Apoc81]

2 hours ago, Meskell said:

I don’t know why beyond a vibe but I really felt that Laila didn’t go to Egwenes initiation because Egwene and Perrin had been intimate in the past. 

I mean  at this point, uts just you wishing it because you want to connect the events. Reality is we know nothing about her. Maybe she's not from town, maybe she wanted to be a warrior, instead of part of the women's circle. If she was a Darkfriend, I imagine she'd want to be on the inside, to gather info. 

Either way, nothing indicates a sexual relationship with Egwene. 

[Apoc81]

Also, if I sound condescending to anyone here, it is not my intention, and im sorry. Sometimes its hard to convey intent, and I'm not a social media guy.

[Katherine]

1 minute ago, Apoc81 said:

I mean  at this point, uts just you wishing it because you want to connect the events. Reality is we know nothing about her. Maybe she's not from town, maybe she wanted to be a warrior, instead of part of the women's circle. If she was a Darkfriend, I imagine she'd want to be on the inside, to gather info. 

Either way, nothing indicates a sexual relationship with Egwene. 

 

There just isn't enough context to develope an evidence based theory. Their relationship was strained for an unknown reason.... even early in the marriage.  SHe came across as unlikeable.... but maybe that is just me. Other than that we have no other information. THe theory that she is a darkfriend is as good a theory as anything else. 

[Rand the Plumber]

3 hours ago, Apoc81 said:

No, at best it would be manslaughter (I'm an actual Criminal Defense Lawyer). It clearly was an accident.

 

I don't do criminal work, but I will tag on to say #metoo.

 

Overall, I really enjoyed it.  I have been very careful to school my thoughts and not go into episode one with any (well, not many) preconceptions.  I take the point about the rushed info-dump elements and some of the editing, but I do think that the acting was all top-notch.  The only jarring element for me was Moiraine's declamation at the beginning, about not knowing whether the Dragon Reborn would be a man or a woman.  Everything else worked.  Even the Reds.

 

Edit to add: I made my partner sit down and watch this, too, even though fantasy is not really his thing. He did enjoy the view of Lan getting into the bath (as did I ?) but assumed that he and Moiraine were an item until I explained that some of the cultures in WoT have a relaxed attitude to casual nudity between the sexes.

 

Now for a bite to eat, and then I will settle down to watch episode two.

Edited November 19, 2021 by Rand the Plumber
Afterthought

[Apoc81]

1 minute ago, Katherine said:

 

There just isn't enough context to develope an evidence based theory. Their relationship was strained for an unknown reason.... even early in the marriage.  SHe came across as unlikeable.... but maybe that is just me. Other than that we have no other information. THe theory that she is a darkfriend is as good a theory as anything else. 

How could you know anything about the early marriage? We saw 10 minutes of them. And literally the only important part of the first scene is him touching her belly. That doesn't say unfaithful to me, in any way.

[Elder_Haman]

My general impressions of E1:

 

Pacing was poor. I think they could have shortened the battle scene and extended the post-battle scene. 

 

Character intros were ... meh. I liked Egwene's ceremony. But there was too much sitting at tables in the rest of it. Didn't love the Rand/Tam dialogue on the quarry road. And they really missed an opportunity by not showing Rand see the Fade.

 

I actually kind of liked the Perrin thing. (I'm going to have to think about this Laila was a darkfriend angle). I feel like it gives us so much insight into what's going on in his head. It was executed perfectly - he fights because he has to, loses himself in the rage of battle, then does something awful in the midst of it. It sets up a pretty powerful backdrop for his character moving forward.

 

I also found myself not minding the changes to the Cauthons. Abell didn't seem like a terrible guy, just kind of ... defeated. I can easily see a redemption arc for him and how it could play well against later book Mat. And they were able to do a pretty good job of depicting Mat's heart of gold and his recklessness.

 

I quite like the Nynaeve scene. The way Moiraine establishes dominance, the little subtlety of continuing to block Nynaeve from getting out of the pool. And the cold, calculated way that Moiraine gets the information she wants. I'm not bothered by Nynaeve's background. First, it mostly matches the cannon. And it gives us a little flavor of why people don't love the Aes Sedai. (My presumption is that they turned her away either for being a wilder or for not being strong enough in the power, but allowed her to come to whatever conclusion she wanted to because Aes Sedai are ivory tower snobs).

 

Hated most of the editing in the battle sequence. It went on too long, was too difficult to track, and failed to make me really care. I did like Tam and Rand's encounter. [LOL to the people who said they were going to make Tam look incompetent.] And as I mentioned earlier, Perrin's scene was effective. 

 

Didn't mind the bath scene at all. Didn't mind Egwene and Rand hooking up at all. 

 

Love all the actors, they've invaded my head canon. TBH, the fact that they felt so good in their roles is the main thing that kept me from feeling despondent about the show at the end of the episode. It's a shame about Barney.

 

Overall though, I felt the episode was flat. I'm glad I was able to jump right to the next episode, because if I'd had to wait a week for it I would not have left with a good taste in my mouth. (6/10)

[Apoc81]

4 minutes ago, Katherine said:

 

There just isn't enough context to develope an evidence based theory. Their relationship was strained for an unknown reason.... even early in the marriage.  SHe came across as unlikeable.... but maybe that is just me. Other than that we have no other information. THe theory that she is a darkfriend is as good a theory as anything else. 

To me, she came across as in anguish, not unlikable. With the belly touching, im guessing she was either preggo and stressed like a normal person would be, or miscarriage and broken inside.

[Elder_Haman]

5 minutes ago, Rand the Plumber said:

I don't do criminal work, but I will tag on to say #metoo.

I am a criminal defense attorney as well. And this is correct. The most fitting description here is a criminally negligent homicide. Like if you're distracted by your cell phone and hit a pedestrian.

[Glortard]

Obviously this is just my thoughts on the first episode and things that I found fault with may make sense in later episodes. I was concerned that it may have the look of so many poor fantasy films and part of it did have.

 

Tam's farm thought was spot on

Two river's did not need the impressive backdrop and I feel this may detract from some of the places they visit in the future. 

Mat was a scoundrel and joker but certainly not a thief although I can get why they may try and portray that early doors

Perrin married was WTF moment

The one power scenes where portrayed well

Trollocs and fades done really well

Braid scene gave the idea of a brutal people rather than what they where

I know its fashionable now to be gender fluid but the dragon can only be male....he can't be born male or female.

[Rand the Plumber]

3 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

I am a criminal defense attorney as well. And this is correct. The most fitting description here is a criminally negligent homicide. Like if you're distracted by your cell phone and hit a pedestrian.

 

In England I would imagine it would be gross negligence leading to manslaughter, but there are a multitude of defences which would apply in this particular situation.  It's all so... different... to fraud!

[Apoc81]

6 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

I am a criminal defense attorney as well. And this is correct. The most fitting description here is a criminally negligent homicide. Like if you're distracted by your cell phone and hit a pedestrian.

Even that's not a fair comparison. It's more as if you were dodging a person on their cell phone who came into your lane, and you hit an incoming pedestrian

[Beidomon]

16 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

My general impressions of E1:

 

Pacing was poor. I think they could have shortened the battle scene and extended the post-battle scene. 

 

Character intros were ... meh. I liked Egwene's ceremony. But there was too much sitting at tables in the rest of it. Didn't love the Rand/Tam dialogue on the quarry road. And they really missed an opportunity by not showing Rand see the Fade.

 

I actually kind of liked the Perrin thing. (I'm going to have to think about this Laila was a darkfriend angle). I feel like it gives us so much insight into what's going on in his head. It was executed perfectly - he fights because he has to, loses himself in the rage of battle, then does something awful in the midst of it. It sets up a pretty powerful backdrop for his character moving forward.

 

I also found myself not minding the changes to the Cauthons. Abell didn't seem like a terrible guy, just kind of ... defeated. I can easily see a redemption arc for him and how it could play well against later book Mat. And they were able to do a pretty good job of depicting Mat's heart of gold and his recklessness.

 

I quite like the Nynaeve scene. The way Moiraine establishes dominance, the little subtlety of continuing to block Nynaeve from getting out of the pool. And the cold, calculated way that Moiraine gets the information she wants. I'm not bothered by Nynaeve's background. First, it mostly matches the cannon. And it gives us a little flavor of why people don't love the Aes Sedai. (My presumption is that they turned her away either for being a wilder or for not being strong enough in the power, but allowed her to come to whatever conclusion she wanted to because Aes Sedai are ivory tower snobs).

 

Hated most of the editing in the battle sequence. It went on too long, was too difficult to track, and failed to make me really care. I did like Tam and Rand's encounter. [LOL to the people who said they were going to make Tam look incompetent.] And as I mentioned earlier, Perrin's scene was effective. 

 

Didn't mind the bath scene at all. Didn't mind Egwene and Rand hooking up at all. 

 

Love all the actors, they've invaded my head canon. TBH, the fact that they felt so good in their roles is the main thing that kept me from feeling despondent about the show at the end of the episode. It's a shame about Barney.

 

Overall though, I felt the episode was flat. I'm glad I was able to jump right to the next episode, because if I'd had to wait a week for it I would not have left with a good taste in my mouth. (6/10)

Agree with most of this, except that I didn’t mind the pacing at all (except the very poor leavetaking) and I liked the Rand / Tam interaction. It’s Episode 1. Had to introduce a lot of stuff PLUS have a big battle. And they generally did it quite well. 

[Katherine]

19 minutes ago, Apoc81 said:

How could you know anything about the early marriage? We saw 10 minutes of them. And literally the only important part of the first scene is him touching her belly. That doesn't say unfaithful to me, in any way.

Mat made a comment early on that made it seem like the marriage just happened. But you are right... that is a weak inference on one line. 

 

But it is literally all I have to go on. 

[caemlyncal]

I started watching this going in with the mindset that they are not just tailoring things to the people that have read the books. If you are so selfish that you thought they were going to make things in your perfect vision and cant accept it for what it is then so be it. That being said I loved episode 1, I understand the reason for quickly pacing things as they know they need to captivate everyone. The show is a bit choppy at times but I am loving episode 1, I watched it last night after the football game and may have had about as many drinks as the Patriots did points so I'm currently re-watching to see what I missed. Would love to hear peoples thoughts regarding the stature/image of the characters as I am really loving the calm yet cheeky demeanor Rand portrays.

[caemlyncal]

I started watching this going in with the mindset that they are not just tailoring things to the people that have read the books. If you are so selfish that you thought they were going to make things in your perfect vision and cant accept it for what it is then so be it. That being said I loved episode 1, I understand the reason for quickly pacing things as they know they need to captivate everyone. The show is a bit choppy at times but I am loving episode 1, I watched it last night after the football game and may have had about as many drinks as the Patriots did points so I'm currently re-watching to see what I missed. Would love to hear peoples thoughts regarding the stature/image of the characters as I am really loving the calm yet cheeky demeanor Rand portrays.

[Apoc81]

4 minutes ago, Rand the Plumber said:

 

In England I would imagine it would be gross negligence leading to manslaughter, but there are a multitude of defences which would apply in this particular situation.  It's all so... different... to fraud!

Im Canadian, but licensed to practice in Montana and Texas (where I have private hunting land). Im a dual citizen, and went to law school in the US. 

 

I shouldn't say im a criminal defense attorney anymore, I did sell my share of our firm and plan on moving to Montana next spring (Wife is from Bosman), so ill probably practice small town law part time, and hunt, fish, and write the rest. But as of right now, I'm not representing anyone, and am done with letting law be my life. I will stay current, probably with pro bono for minors.

[Arthellion]

5 minutes ago, caemlyncal said:

I started watching this going in with the mindset that they are not just tailoring things to the people that have read the books. If you are so selfish that you thought they were going to make things in your perfect vision and cant accept it for what it is then so be it. That being said I loved episode 1, I understand the reason for quickly pacing things as they know they need to captivate everyone. The show is a bit choppy at times but I am loving episode 1, I watched it last night after the football game and may have had about as many drinks as the Patriots did points so I'm currently re-watching to see what I missed. Would love to hear peoples thoughts regarding the stature/image of the characters as I am really loving the calm yet cheeky demeanor Rand portrays.

Josha  really killed it as Rand in my mind. Was my favorite character among the show. 

[Apoc81]

Wait, I need to watch again, but Perrin drove the axe into her stomach right? 

 

In the first scene he very deliberately touched her stomach.

 

She was very clearly pregnant, or had recently miscarried. Either way, none of that was a coincidence.

[Katherine]

6 minutes ago, caemlyncal said:

If you are so selfish that you thought they were going to make things in your perfect vision and cant accept it for what it is then so be it

 

 

 

No one is being selfish for reading a book and having ideas about what it should look like on screen. 

[Apoc81]

1 minute ago, Arthellion said:

Josha  really killed it as Rand in my mind. Was my favorite character among the show. 

I like him, I like Egwene and Nynaeve, and I think Perrin could be great once we see deeper into his character.

[Apoc81]

1 minute ago, Katherine said:

 

 

 

No one is being selfish for reading a book and having ideas about what it should look like on screen. 

Agreed, but I do think that peoples love for the books has made them blind to the realities of tv.

 

Its no different than GoT, even when they were at their best, couldn't come near the depth and complexity of the book. Whole characters and storylines had to be torn out. Its the natural devolution from page to screen. Imagination costs nothing. This show is 10m an episode.

 

 

[Arthellion]

3 minutes ago, Apoc81 said:

I like him, I like Egwene and Nynaeve, and I think Perrin could be great once we see deeper into his character.

Mat was the only flop for me.

 

Lan left me a little underwhelmed but not terrible. 

[ForsakenPotato]

I watched those show having read most of the books, with a friend who I had told EotW to while on a long backpacking trip (without the book, and not well -- things like "I think there's someone here whose name I don't remember, let's go with Jeff"). It made for some pretty entertaining convos.

 

Pros:

- actually loved Lan and Moiraine bathtime. Thought it was the perfect way to illustrate non-romantic intimacy, they have clearly been on the road together for years (even if you aren't a book reader and don't know about the bond). It would be weirder for them to be uncomfortable in a hot tub together in my opinion, and I thought it was a good "show don't tell moment." That said, maybe it wasn't clear enough (or we just aren't used to ever seeing nudity with men and women that isn't either romantic or comedic) because my friend said "I didn't think they were an item in your version."

- liked all the actors. my friend said "I knew immediately who everyone was" which is impressive because my descriptions were not great. stuff like "did you have a football player at your school who was actually the nicest? that's Perrin"

- it was appropriately scary when it needed to be

- i love mountains (see backpacking, above), so always stoked for some good views. scenery did not disappoint!

- Moiraine using the power was honestly just very fun to watch for the most part. I said "hell yeah!!" at the screen

 

Cons:

- some of the violence felt extra gory on purpose for shock value alone. i.e. when Perrin's wife dies, would have been more effective imho to focus on his reaction to her dying than the extended shot of loads of fake-looking blood coming out of her mouth and her spasming to death.

- the blocks flying out of the building looked like styrofoam. less blocks more fireballs would have been my preference, although I guess they were trying to illustrate the different elements

- my friend said "where is the fun music man with the knives". indeed. I kinda missed the element of anticipation for the party from the books, which was largely driven from knowing there was gonna be a gleeman

- some dialogue felt clunky or exposition-y. To be fair I think this is the hardest thing to do well in fantasy and I felt this way sometimes reading the books too.

- I don't hate any of the changes from the book (mat's parents, perrin's wife, dragon gender confusion) but I don't necessarily love them either

- Tam is fine and I know actors can play different characters because that's their job, but he was soooo evil in GoT that for me he would need a lot more onscreen time in WoT before he would instantly feel like a good guy to me, and there isn't enough time in ep 1 to make that happen

 

[Apoc81]

Just now, Arthellion said:

Mat was the only flop for me.

 

Lan left me a little underwhelmed but not terrible. 

I like Lan a lot actually. He's very much how I imagined him. I also love how fiery Nynaeve is. And I think Pike is an incredible actress, who does a great job, but honestly she looks too old for the beautiful  nearly perfect, short, blue dressed witch of my imagination. But thats my own bias  so I try not to judge her on it. My Moraine was always closer to a Lauren Cohan or Vanessa Hudgens.