An opinion on Nynaeve.

[Acevillain]

On 1/20/2021 at 10:47 AM, loudbeak said:

I think the first time Moraine used it was on the Darkhounds. Nynaeve used it on the Fades in the brigands camp. on their way to Tear. Chronologically I think its about the same time frame, as they all seem to get to tear at about the same time. I can't think of an earlier incident of it being used. It has been a while since I read the books.

Rand was the first to use Balefire. He uses it when he is by himself heading to Tear and still struggling to reliably channel. It’s isn’t called balefire but is described as a solid bar of liquid fire. I believe he was still somewhere in Tarabon or Amadicia at the time. 

[boldnbeautiful]

On 1/19/2021 at 6:40 PM, loudbeak said:

I think Nynaeve is arguably the second most important character in the series, here's why:

Obviously, Rand being the main char is the most important, but it's really hard to rank the second. She certainly is popular (I really love her char), but chars like Perrin, Mat, and Egwene have their moments as well. 

 

[Linnile]

I also agree that Nynaeve is super important. In the beginning I didn't find her that appealing, but watching her character grow and face all the challenges she overcomes. 

[Siberian Rat]

On 3/31/2021 at 10:59 PM, muddasssir said:

obviously Nynaeve is one of the best written character in the book and Eggy the exalted hyena is the worst.

No, Egwene is well written, but as a villain/antagonist who doesn’t know she’s a villain.

[Siberian Rat]

On 4/5/2021 at 6:38 AM, mistborn82 said:

When do we see her struggling with nightmares, issues with channeling and the like. I'm not being sarcastic so could you point to some, maybe I've forgotten.

Eh, like in her very first chapter of the next book, when she completely overreacts to the minor Whitecloak-threat?

[Dedicated]

On 10/30/2021 at 6:24 PM, Linnile said:

I also agree that Nynaeve is super important. In the beginning I didn't find her that appealing, but watching her character grow and face all the challenges she overcomes. 

 

Yea she was rounded out pretty well by the end, but for the longest time she was a frustrating character for me. Just so headstrong and unwilling to listen or recognize better ideas. I was definitely team Elyane (I'm always team Elyane actually). I remember jokingly saying, "D*** it Nynaeve just needs to get some lovin' or something!" and about the time she finally winds up marrying Lan I start liking her character. I really hate how her bonding of Lan was so drawn out. I feel like immediately after marrying Lan she should have had the right to get the bond from Myrelle; I mean that was Moiraine's intentions in passing Myrelle the bond in the first place. I get that Nynaeve probably felt she had to be Aes Sedai before approaching her, but... doesn't Moiraine's will give her the right to ask for it even if she is just an Accepted? Besides I'm pretty sure Nynaeve could have taken Myrelle if she had to. 

[Agitel]

I really like early Nynaeve. She's determined to protect the children, and in many ways the other four Wmond Fielders still are all children. Nynaeve's suspicion of manipulation is pretty much all correct, and Egwene and Elayne are both pretty naive when they first enter the Tower. Nynaeve stands up for them, puts herself between them and people she feels will hurt or manipulate when need be, and stands up for them. Over the next few books both Egwene and Elayne mature, much to Nynaeve's surprise, and don't need her anymore. Indeed, even learn to stand above Nynaeve. But I think Nynaeve has a great arc, and she really acts very believably and even bravely, even when she calls herself a coward. 

[Sabio]

Sorry to be the #2 in the series you can't of been captured 3 times and constantly abusing those who are there to help you, like Thom.

[Andra]

On 10/23/2021 at 9:57 AM, Acevillain said:

Rand was the first to use Balefire. He uses it when he is by himself heading to Tear and still struggling to reliably channel. It’s isn’t called balefire but is described as a solid bar of liquid fire. I believe he was still somewhere in Tarabon or Amadicia at the time. 

While Nynaeve almost certainly uses Balefire (Egwene guessed that's what it was) it's odd that it didn't have the normal "rewind" effect.  The Aiel that had just been killed, including the Maiden she had previously Healed, stayed dead.

As far as Rand and his "Bars of light like white-hot steel" that flew from his fists - I'm not sure it qualifies, since we see it from Perrin's point of view in the wolf dream.  And none of the other things associated with Balefire are described.  No reversal of colors, no vanishing of the person struck, no "shimmering motes."  And he hit Perrin in the chest with it, but only left him a burn mark the size of a penny.

 

But if it was, then Rand and Nynaeve would have probably used it within a day or two of each other (possibly even on the same night), and Moraine did several days later.

[BookLover]

I have a hypothesis, and it is based on your Myers-Briggs preferences which characters resonate with you. I have my own favs. However, my least favorite beside dark friends, black ajah, the dark one, etc. is Faile. I am in the midst of book four, and she is just so immature. However, I plan to give her a chance. Yet, I do like Egwene over Nynaeve. Nynaeve annoys me slightly, and I have analyzed why. She sees the trees before the forest. Due to her perception, she does get the crew in situations that if she saw the forest before the trees, then perhaps certain outcomes would not occur. However, "the wheel turns as the wheel weaves." Whatever. Overall, she is cool in my book because she sees the trees--the tasks at hand.

[Juan Farstrider]

BookLover, I never thought about the Meyers-Briggs thing with regard to how we feel about characters, but I know it does say something about us. I liked Faile, but I know why and it ain't good. I kinda like Lanfear too, though I think even I'd see that Selene has some trick up her sleeve that is not on the up-and-up. 

I think the thing that has stayed with me most after reading the books is how the young characters grow up. I think you say that in another thread. Another thing, maybe a minor theme, that emerges more clearly (for something that might be at best a very minor theme) is gaining ground in my mind on that, but it is related. I'd rather not even mention it because you have to get through the books to then probably say "nah, that's not really there you're just reading into it".

[Asthereal]

On 1/27/2022 at 8:38 AM, BookLover said:

Nynaeve annoys me slightly, and I have analyzed why. She sees the trees before the forest. Due to her perception, she does get the crew in situations that if she saw the forest before the trees, then perhaps certain outcomes would not occur. However, "the wheel turns as the wheel weaves." Whatever. Overall, she is cool in my book because she sees the trees--the tasks at hand.

Understandable. She starts out very single-minded and she's extremely stubborn, which causes several problems. It's part of Nynaeve's arc that she needs to learn to take a step back and observe instead of jumping to conclusions all the time. She's from a village in the middle of nowhere, and back there, she was the most important and influencial person around in an otherwise rather unassuming and not very complex environment. She needs to broaden her horizon and learn humility in order to tackle the bigger challenges she faces in her new life.

 

But she does. Her arc is one of the better ones in the story as a whole, I feel. And we can argue semantics about her accomplishments, but to me, she's an absolute legend and one of my favourite characters for sure.

Edited February 8, 2022 by Asthereal

[BookLover]

Thanks! I am now in book five so I am starting to enjoy character development. I like how the characters are at different stages of cognitive development as well as they all do have strengths and witnesses, which reflect all our journeys. One overall theme I see Jordan weave is the life lesson to never inhibit others free will. Thank you. I appreciate your response.

Edited February 18, 2022 by BookLover
Grammar error.

[Juan Farstrider]

the character development is one of my favorite strengths of the books

[Zachary Pennington]

I started when the first three books were in print. I think the first one I bought was FoH when it was released in hardcover and every book thereafter. I never re-read any of them until the show inspired me to do so, and have, via Audible, made it through the first 13 ?.

 

I recall being completely frustrated with Nynaeve as a character, until she finally got through her block. In the re-read, I didn't really mind her, until FoH, and she grated mightily until the last few books. But I agree with the sentiment that she's important (and great). It's a rough journey, but in the end, she's in my top five favorites. 

[KakitaOCU]

On 1/8/2022 at 6:17 PM, Andra said:

While Nynaeve almost certainly uses Balefire (Egwene guessed that's what it was) it's odd that it didn't have the normal "rewind" effect.  The Aiel that had just been killed, including the Maiden she had previously Healed, stayed dead.

Know this is a bit older, but felt was worth answering.  ?  Balefire only rewinds a few seconds when it's not being channeled at significant strength.  Rand's level base balefire rewinds a few seconds, a minute at most.  Moraine's barely does a second Nynaeve at book 3 isn't at her full strength, she hasn't been forced like Egwene.  So who knows exactly where her her rewind dial is at exactly.

Edited February 16, 2022 by KakitaOCU

[Andra]

1 hour ago, KakitaOCU said:

Know this is a bit older, but felt was worth answering.  ?  Balefire only rewinds a few seconds when it's not being channeled at significant strength.  Rand's level base balefire rewinds a few seconds, a minute at most.  Moraine's barely does a second Nynaeve at book 3 isn't at her full strength, she hasn't been forced like Egwene.  So who knows exactly where her her rewind dial is at exactly.

While it's true that the strength of the effect is dependent on the strength of the channeling that produced it, it's also true that every confirmed use of Balefire exhibits the effect to some degree.  And there's no mention of even a few wounds disappearing.  It's not that it didn't rewind very far, it's that it didn't rewind enough for anyone to even notice it.

 

Also, I don't believe it's accurate to say Nynaeve wasn't at her full strength by then.  She hadn't learned the kind of control that she eventually does, but given her age there's no reason to believe she had any meaningful increase in raw power still to reach.

 

And we know from Rand's use of Balefire against the Darkhounds outside Mat's room that he had to intentionally reduce the intensity as much as he could to keep it from doing too much.  It wasn't his level base, it was substantially less than that.

It seems that Nynaeve would have had the same issue.  Without having learned that kind of fine control yet, and with her still only able to channel when angry, she would have likely produced Balefire at full power.  

[KakitaOCU]

3 minutes ago, Andra said:

Also, I don't believe it's accurate to say Nynaeve wasn't at her full strength by then.  She hadn't learned the kind of control that she eventually does, but given her age there's no reason to believe she had any meaningful increase in raw power still to reach.

I have no firm stats on what her strength is at where but we know she's not even at her full power in the series.

From the official companion's strength levels we know Nynaeve at present is equal to Moghedien (Level 4/+9).  But Nynaeve's full potential is a step above that (5/+10).  If we know she's still growing even at the end of the series then it's possible she's on a sliding scale throughout the series vs a consistent strength level.

(link for the power chat https://www.tor.com/2015/10/27/the-wheel-of-time-companion-strength-chart-of-major-channelers/ )

I do feel like we saw some Balefires that weren't noticeable, but I also don't have TDR in front of me to check.  Was there any definitive result to Belial's BF by Moraine or Rand's against the randoms he fights?  

[Andra]

21 minutes ago, KakitaOCU said:

I do feel like we saw some Balefires that weren't noticeable, but I also don't have TDR in front of me to check.  Was there any definitive result to Belial's BF by Moraine or Rand's against the randoms he fights?  

So far as we ever see, he didn't fight anyone other than Rand.  Rand ended up in the Heart of the Stone, then Be'lal just showed up.  No one else was in the room yet.

And though Rand feared he would lose to him, he wasn't actually injured, so there was nothing to rewind.

The only hurt Rand took during their duel was his old wound breaking open.  Which isn't something that would have been rewound, since he broke it open himself.

[Andra]

53 minutes ago, KakitaOCU said:

From the official companion's strength levels we know Nynaeve at present is equal to Moghedien (Level 4/+9).  But Nynaeve's full potential is a step above that (5/+10).  If we know she's still growing even at the end of the series then it's possible she's on a sliding scale throughout the series vs a consistent strength level.

Fair enough.

But even so, that means she was already stronger than any other female channeler we had met yet, except possibly Lanfear.  Strong enough for Suroth to have complained about it to Liandrin.

 

Easily powerful enough for a noticeable rewind effect from her Balefire.

[Jaysen Gore]

On 11/14/2021 at 10:09 AM, Sabio said:

Sorry to be the #2 in the series you can't of been captured 3 times and constantly abusing those who are there to help you, like Thom.

But apparently you CAN be number 1...

 

Dumai's Wells, Far Madding, Semirhage with Domination Band

 

and

 

Mat and Perrin in  GH, Cadsuane, Perrin thrown out of Tear, Hurin in Far Madding, the entire Black Tower

[Elendir]

On 2/18/2022 at 1:24 AM, Jaysen Gore said:

But apparently you CAN be number 1...

 

Dumai's Wells, Far Madding, Semirhage with Domination Band

 

and

 

Mat and Perrin in  GH, Cadsuane, Perrin thrown out of Tear, Hurin in Far Madding, the entire Black Tower

 

If you wanted list of "who Rand abused" then I don't understand you listed Cadsuane there. She played Aes sedai game with him, so she wasn't friendly with Rand either.
More importantly, you missed person, Rand abused most of all, Rand himself.

[Ladymaidy]

Mistborn82 I diagree with your comment about Egwene. There are many ocassions after escaping from the Seanchan that she is clearly traumatised. On one ocassion when returning to the White Tower with Mat on a stretcher, and the others she over reacts and attacks the children of the light because she was tortured by them before and feared capture after her captivity and torture by the Seanchan. She was very obviously suffering PTSD and there are other ocassions when she remarks that she won't be captured again. 

[styxrox69]

I began to hate reading about Nynaeve. I wanted her to die. She was a complete jerk to just about everyone. She had 0 good qualities. What was her block? She had to get angry just to embrace saidar? She seemed shallow and 1 dimensional.