What characters do you think they merged?

[mistborn82]

The medieval world WOT is built to be isn't capable of handling the adaptation though and there's nothing earthshatteringly important that her character does.

[Elder_Haman]

3 minutes ago, mistborn82 said:

The medieval world WOT is built to be isn't capable of handling the adaptation though and there's nothing earthshatteringly important that her character does.

I'll bet you a shiny new quarter that Tylin stays. ?

[SinisterDeath]

6 minutes ago, mistborn82 said:

The medieval world WOT is built to be isn't capable of handling the adaptation though and there's nothing earthshatteringly important that her character does.

Medieval world you say?

What kind of changes could they make to her character, that Randland isn't capable of handling? 

[Elder_Haman]

18 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

Medieval world you say?

What kind of changes could they make to her character, that Randland isn't capable of handling? 

Yeah, WoT is not really set in a medieval world at all. It's much closer to Revolutionary War times in terms of technology, only without gunpowder. 

[Harldin]

On 1/25/2021 at 3:19 PM, mistborn82 said:

for a WOT fan actor or Sean Bean, because he's contractually obligated to die in fantasy series.

Can’t wait to see how he gets killed off in Snowpiercer 

[johnnysd]

On 1/27/2021 at 9:18 AM, Elder_Haman said:

I think they should combine Moggy and Graendal. It would allow them to do a really solid job developing one of the female Forsaken. The combination wouldn't create any major plot holes. The combined character could do everything the individual ones do in the last battle and could still try to assume the role of Demandred (Taimandred?) at the very end.

 

You want to merge the two most un-alike Forsaken? Don't see that at all.  Graendal especially is needed for the future sexposition scenes.

 

I think they will have Taim be Demandred as originally planned.

 

Aginor and Balthamel could remain as they would only really need to be in a single scene.

 

Ishamael obviously stays, and likely Moridin too.

 

Semirhage is really important later, she would stay

 

Asmodean is vital he stays.

 

I can see Sammael and Rahvin or Sammael/Be'lal being combined. I doubt we get every major city. Caemlyn seems like it must be there. 

 

Moghedien is one of the better arcs. I think the spider remains largely intact

 

Lanfear is maybe the third most important character in the first few books despite having relatively little actual screen time. I see them greatly expanding the Lanfear role. 

 

To be honest other than Aginot and Balthamel it is not easy to cut most of the forsaken. 

 

Ingtar/Masema could be combined. Uno and Hurin can be combined.

 

Galad/Gawyn seems logical at first glance but not sure it makes sense overall. 

 

GOT had probably 25 ish main characters. I can see WoT doing the same so of the major characters they may not need to change too many.

[johnnysd]

On 1/29/2021 at 9:01 AM, Elder_Haman said:

Yeah, WoT is not really set in a medieval world at all. It's much closer to Revolutionary War times in terms of technology, only without gunpowder. 

 

It's set in the early Renaissance well before the industrial revolution.

[Thrasymachus]

It's a little bit silly to try to create a precise historical analog to the WoT.  There's not one.  There's bits and pieces pulled from several places, at various times, woven together to create something not really seen before in our history.

[mistborn82]

Maybe they'll merge Narg and Bella.

[Harldin]

1 hour ago, mistborn82 said:

Maybe they'll merge Narg and Bella.

Nargella the Nag

[Elder_Haman]

On 2/6/2021 at 10:05 AM, johnnysd said:

You want to merge the two most un-alike Forsaken? Don't see that at all.  Graendal especially is needed for the future sexposition scenes.

Yes. While I acknowledge that there are enormous differences between the two characters, from a screenwriting perspective I would rather have one well-developed villain that gets lots of screen time rather than two less-developed ones.

 

Graendal simply doesn't have enough to do. She's barely present in most of the books and doesn't actually do anything when she is. She plots. That's all. 

 

Moghedien, on the other hand, is around quite a bit. She is a primary antagonist. Giving her Graendal's role in all the plotting doesn't change much of the story - but if done correctly it would fit the "Spider" moniker. Making Moghedien adept with compulsion isn't much of a change and again is fitting for the Spider. Making her sexy and using her for "sexposition" [I really hope they don't do much if any of that] also changes very little.

 

I know people get hung up on that there have to be 13 Forsaken and whatnot, but I think trying to keep the Forsaken as they are in the books is going to be a recipe for bad television. 

[Thrasymachus]

Villains play lots of different roles in stories, and not all of them need to be well-developed.  Some of them exist just to be a vague background threat, until they show up and die, like Bel'al.  Some of them exist to be mere high-level minions, like Aginor or Bal'thamel.  Some of them exist to demonstrate the seductiveness and possessiveness of the Dark side (Lanfear), its self-serving nature (Asmodean), its forcefulness (Sammael), manipulativeness (Rhavin), cruelty (Semirhage), secretiveness (Moghedien), pridefulness (Demandred), insidiousness (Messana), or depravity (Graendal).

 

Let's say we have 7 seasons of TV.  Two main bad guys per season, with occasional appearances by a couple of others sprinkled in, can easily accommodate 13 distinct bad guys.  The biggest reason for me to not merge Moggy and Graendal is that their endings are both well-earned and deserve to be retained.  Moggy leashed and condemned to spend the rest of her life as damane, and Graendal Compulsed by her own weave into being Aviendha's gaishan for life need to be included, the former as the appropriate endcap to the Spider's story, and the latter as the appropriate endcap to Aviendha's.

[Elder_Haman]

7 minutes ago, Thrasymachus said:

Villains play lots of different roles in stories, and not all of them need to be well-developed.  Some of them exist just to be a vague background threat, until they show up and die, like Bel'al.  Some of them exist to be mere high-level minions, like Aginor or Bal'thamel.  Some of them exist to demonstrate the seductiveness and possessiveness of the Dark side (Lanfear), its self-serving nature (Asmodean), its forcefulness (Sammael), manipulativeness (Rhavin), cruelty (Semirhage), secretiveness (Moghedien), pridefulness (Demandred), insidiousness (Messana), or depravity (Graendal).

 

Let's say we have 7 seasons of TV.  Two main bad guys per season, with occasional appearances by a couple of others sprinkled in, can easily accommodate 13 distinct bad guys.  The biggest reason for me to not merge Moggy and Graendal is that their endings are both well-earned and deserve to be retained.  Moggy leashed and condemned to spend the rest of her life as damane, and Graendal Compulsed by her own weave into being Aviendha's gaishan for life need to be included, the former as the appropriate endcap to the Spider's story, and the latter as the appropriate endcap to Aviendha's.

Please no X number of bad guys per season. It's boring. 

I certainly am not going to argue that the Forsaken serve important literary purposes in the novels. The depth of Jordan's moral and spiritual commentary is truly impressive and has many layers. 

 

But we aren't just talking about "bad guys". We are talking about The Forsaken. A high quality tv show can't have disposable villains who are supposed to be equal to or greater in power to the main character without getting dry and boring. Save "villains of the week" for crime serials and camp. 

 

If there are going to be powerful villains, chosen by the Dark One, with a cool, scary name like "Forsaken" they should have a fittingly large role on the screen. The audience should spend enough time with them to really hate them (like Cersei or Littlefinger) and they should earn their endings. No one is going to care about how fitting Graendal's ending is if she only got 10 minutes on screen.

[Thrasymachus]

Well, there's a reason that formula has become so, well, formulaic.  It's because it works, and works pretty well to keep audiences engaged and keep the series "fresh." 

 

And I would argue that the Forsaken never really play that kind of "Cersei Lannister" kind of villain role to begin with.  That's Elaida, Sevannah, Suroth, Valda/Bornhald territory.  The Forsaken are always these mysterious, outside, ancient, largely inhuman and inconceivable threats and influences, except for Asmodean and Moghedien, who exist specifically to be humanized, not by revealing their underlying humanity, but by humbling them.  You're not ever supposed to really understand or sympathize with a Forsaken, except as an inconceivably and fundamentally broken "human" with way too much power.  The villianousness of the Forsaken is cartoonish, and is intentionally so, both to maintain the fantasy side of this fantasy drama, and to distinguish them from the more mundane human villians who pose just as much of a threat.

Edited February 8, 2021 by Thrasymachus

[johnnysd]

1 hour ago, Elder_Haman said:

Yes. While I acknowledge that there are enormous differences between the two characters, from a screenwriting perspective I would rather have one well-developed villain that gets lots of screen time rather than two less-developed ones.

 

Graendal simply doesn't have enough to do. She's barely present in most of the books and doesn't actually do anything when she is. She plots. That's all. 

 

Moghedien, on the other hand, is around quite a bit. She is a primary antagonist. Giving her Graendal's role in all the plotting doesn't change much of the story - but if done correctly it would fit the "Spider" moniker. Making Moghedien adept with compulsion isn't much of a change and again is fitting for the Spider. Making her sexy and using her for "sexposition" [I really hope they don't do much if any of that] also changes very little.

 

I know people get hung up on that there have to be 13 Forsaken and whatnot, but I think trying to keep the Forsaken as they are in the books is going to be a recipe for bad television. 

 

I could see a combo of Moghedien and Sermirhage. After she escapes from Nynaeve she could flee to Seanchan and then take the place of Semirhage later in the show making her role even larger in the show.

 

I understand what you mean about Graendal but a couple things. First, if Amazon wants a show that is more TV-MA then Graendal is perfect for part of that purpose. Also, she does quite a bit but Jordan chose not to show it, her role could easily be expanded. Plus I think a character with Graendals approach to sex would be good for the show. They could make that Berelain but that would cheapen her as she uses sexuality as a tool to help her people.

[mistborn82]

Looking at another thread, I wonder if they'll merge Alanna and Cadsuane, basically have Alanna be involved with Logain's capture. Then she goes back to Alanna until after the battle of Emond's field. I wonder if they keep her bonding Rand because it does no good, isn't really important and she becomes a semi-unimportant background character after book 4.

I also wonder what they'll do with Cadsuane and Moiraine, provided, the story gets that far and Moiraine doesn't disappear for long. I realize the Greens are supposed to be the warriors but they never impressed me. You have a badass the audience knows and cares about, Moiraine but then Cads pops into existence. At this point, I think they either cut Cads completely or give her role with changes to Moiraine. This assumes that no AS, beyond Elayne, bonds Rand and Alanna disappears or dies.

[Elder_Haman]

3 hours ago, mistborn82 said:

Looking at another thread, I wonder if they'll merge Alanna and Cadsuane, basically have Alanna be involved with Logain's capture. Then she goes back to Alanna until after the battle of Emond's field. I wonder if they keep her bonding Rand because it does no good, isn't really important and she becomes a semi-unimportant background character after book 4.

I also wonder what they'll do with Cadsuane and Moiraine, provided, the story gets that far and Moiraine doesn't disappear for long. I realize the Greens are supposed to be the warriors but they never impressed me. You have a badass the audience knows and cares about, Moiraine but then Cads pops into existence. At this point, I think they either cut Cads completely or give her role with changes to Moiraine. This assumes that no AS, beyond Elayne, bonds Rand and Alanna disappears or dies.

It's an interesting idea. 

I completely disagree about the bond though. The moment when the bond is leveraged against Rand at Shayol Ghul was a fantastic twist! I feel like she is one of those tertiary characters that sort of has to stick around just for the ending.

[mistborn82]

It might be a good twist to use the bond like that but I think it would be better to capture Elayne, Avi or Min because they're already set up and audiences would be invested in them. Personally I'd go with Elayne but one of three. Alanna, unless they greatly expand her role, isn't around that much

a. Why would audiences be invested in someone recurring so rarely

b. You might not get anyone other than an extra to be a glorified extra

c. Would Amazon want to pay someone that unimportant because if the show reaches that point, the stars will be worth more.

I'm not saying using the bond, now that you said that, isn't a good idea, I'm just wondering if Alanna's the best choice.

[Elder_Haman]

On 4/3/2021 at 2:05 PM, mistborn82 said:

It might be a good twist to use the bond like that but I think it would be better to capture Elayne, Avi or Min because they're already set up and audiences would be invested in them. Personally I'd go with Elayne but one of three. Alanna, unless they greatly expand her role, isn't around that much

a. Why would audiences be invested in someone recurring so rarely

b. You might not get anyone other than an extra to be a glorified extra

c. Would Amazon want to pay someone that unimportant because if the show reaches that point, the stars will be worth more.

I'm not saying using the bond, now that you said that, isn't a good idea, I'm just wondering if Alanna's the best choice.

I guess it kind of depends what they do with her. A beefed up Alanna could be a very interesting character. Her capture could be a vehicle for providing insight into what's happening with the Shadow during the Last Battle. 

 

On the other hand, you're right that if she's just sort of an add on that doesn't get to do much having her be the target weakens the conflict for Rand. She's a good example of a character that they have room to play with. And definitely a character that is ripe for an unexpected death.

[mistborn82]

That's what I mean, in the books, she's not that important and the bond doesn't even work very well and after Cadsuane arrives, she's shoved to the back even further. I just don't see audiences caring that much about an as is Alanna. After the bond snaps with Lan, I think audiences will appreciate the danger of killing someone bonded to Rand at a critical moment, I just think Elayne is a better choice because she's not a fighter if shielded, whereas Min and Avi are.

[mistborn82]

I think they merged Liandrin and maybe Alviarin and Galina. The actress cast was apparently Lady Mcbeth opposite Sir Patrick Stewart and I don't think you cast someone who can hold her own against Captain Picard if she'll just be liandrin.

[Harldin]

45 minutes ago, mistborn82 said:

I think they merged Liandrin and maybe Alviarin and Galina. The actress cast was apparently Lady Mcbeth opposite Sir Patrick Stewart and I don't think you cast someone who can hold her own against Captain Picard if she'll just be liandrin.

You can’t merge Liandrin and Alviarin, they are 2 of the 3 most important Black Ajahs in the books with very different storylines that could not be merged with any credibility. One has a death sentence on her head as a known BA and the other one is an unknown BA in a very important role within the Tower. 

[mistborn82]

Liandrin is basically a bumbling idiot and if Falme doesn't happen, her claim to fame would need to be changed. Point is, I don't think you hire Lady Mcbeth for Liandrin. It's possible but I don't you hiring a high calibre actress for only her.

[The Purple Ajah]

I don't think Cadsuane has been cut, but I do think that Kerene will absorb her role in New Spring during Moiraine's season 1 flashbacks. Casting Cadsuane in S1 is problematic if it's going to be several seasons before that ends up becoming a major role, and as another formidable Green sister, Kerene can absorb that role for the first season.

 

I think Rafe Judkins has talked about liking the "bigness" of WoT, so it would surprise me if primary characters are truly cut. Some important character could be heavily sidelined (Gawyn), but I'd be very surprised if they were cut. I can see some of the Forsaken taking on each other's roles, though.

 

 

[Greggbert]

On 1/4/2021 at 12:56 PM, Elder_Haman said:

Gawyn/Galad is a big possibility. I think the identities of many secondary characters will be blurred. For example, they might have a guy be "a-hole Whitecloak #3" in season one then decide they like him as an actor and write him in as "Dain Bornhald" in season 2 even though they hadn't planned on having a "Dain Bornhald" when they started. With tertiary characters like that, it's fairly simple to write them small roles with small payoffs.

 

You could potentially combine Egeanin with Suroth and/or Alivia. (Or, yes, eliminate Egeanin altogeter @Thrasymachus). 

 

I think they'll definitely tinker with the Forsaken.

The whitecloaks appear prominent in the telelpay.  Gawyn and Galad will be different characters I think.