You're In Good Hands: The Beau Tomteer Law Firm Mafia GAME THREAD

[Lenlo]

Your only real worry is if I accuse you and everyone says yes. And if everyone is willing to say yes on an accuse where I publicly stated I was going to accuse Nyn before hand in a set deal with you, then fact is you were never going to win the argument/accuser vote in the first place.

 

Way I say it, at this point, its the only option short of Randing the accuser slot. Sure, you can do that. But if we rand it because you turned this down, and it lands on me, I will accuse you. Just laying it out there. Just like how I expect you will probably accuse me.

 

Personally, I would prefer a sure thing where if it works out we have a unified front D5 and no more of this argument weighing us down.

[Cass]

LightDarnIT! DM just lost my thoughts/summary for each day.

Running late for work. 

 

TLDR top of my head

I wanna go compare this with a couple of other Kat games.

Apart from Voting Dice for Accuser when she was in his WTL (this would be a strange/bold move as Scum IMO), I don't see much to keep Kat out of null/possi-scum here. The high fluff and low relative hunting/contribution concerns me but in general

 

Her reads progression has been ~ok.

There was a lot of fluff and hedging on AJ

Similar with Clov,

The Hallia reasoning for not voting/not being WTL D1 was ~ok imo

As was the reasoning for voting Penguin - which also fit with her previous PoE

She's been steadily considering Nyn

She's given reasoning for her progression on moving Lenlo higher in her reads, no further on that

I'm less sure on her progression on Seph - She hasn't been back since voting Dice for Accuser and submitting a Yes vote for Seph

 

@Katiora can you explain your thoughts/decision on Seph pls?

 

Where are you at today?

 

 

 

[Andrej]

51 minutes ago, Cass said:

LightDarnIT! DM just lost my thoughts/summary for each day.

Running late for work. 

 

TLDR top of my head

I wanna go compare this with a couple of other Kat games.

Apart from Voting Dice for Accuser when she was in his WTL (this would be a strange/bold move as Scum IMO), I don't see much to keep Kat out of null/possi-scum here. The high fluff and low relative hunting/contribution concerns me but in general

 

Her reads progression has been ~ok.

There was a lot of fluff and hedging on AJ

Similar with Clov,

The Hallia reasoning for not voting/not being WTL D1 was ~ok imo

As was the reasoning for voting Penguin - which also fit with her previous PoE

She's been steadily considering Nyn

She's given reasoning for her progression on moving Lenlo higher in her reads, no further on that

I'm less sure on her progression on Seph - She hasn't been back since voting Dice for Accuser and submitting a Yes vote for Seph

 

@Katiora can you explain your thoughts/decision on Seph pls?

 

Where are you at today?

 

It seems you’re in a position to think Nyn is scum. Am I correct in that?

[Andrej]

If Cass agrees that we are going to lynch Nyn, I’m on board Len.

 

but I swear if you pull some fancy play I’m gonna be mad lol

[Lenlo]

6 minutes ago, Andrej said:

If Cass agrees that we are going to lynch Nyn, I’m on board Len.

 

but I swear if you pull some fancy play I’m gonna be mad lol

Alright then.

 

Trust me, I wish this was some fancy play. I could add it to my list of "Things I pulled as a wolf no one will believe". Its a list I am very proud of. No this is just hopefully going on my "Things I did as a town that won a game" list.

[Cass]

Also @Katiora,

 

There's not much mention of Darc except that one read, where you mention having her Towny for "content".  Can you elaborate on that a bit?

 

And updated thoughts on AJ?

 

Pls?

[Cass]

Still have to catch up, but just looking at this page

 

@Andrej and @Lenlo

 

I currently have a pretty major sticking point against lynching Nyn rn

 

- Why would Wolf!Nyn vote Town!Dice to be the Accuser?

 

- Especially at the points when she was clearly who he was planning to put up for lynch?

 

 

 

@Nynaeve

Come playyyyyyyyyyy

 

Why'd you Vote Dice for Accuser?

 

Who's the Woofs if not you? Who are you voting to lynch today?/Why?

[Kaylee]

Official Vote Count

 

Lenlo (1) - Leno

Cass (1) - Cass

AJ (1) - AJ

 

Not Voting (6) - AJ, Darc, Illian, Kat Nyn, Cass

 

Deadline Dec 14th @ 12 PMPM EST

[Kaylee]

I WILL BE GONE FOR A GOOD PORTION OF THE DAY... BUT WILL CHECK IN WITH A VC TONIGHT. I LEAVE IN 3 HOURS AND WILL BE BACK 8 - 9 HOURS AFTER THAT. CARRY ON. 

[Cass]

 

9 hours ago, Lenlo said:

Going purely by my PoE, I wanna say Kat. You've poked her abit about her activity but you've never really gone at her in any meaningful way from what I remember. 

 

From PoE and Kat ISO I actually have

Kat-AJ as most likely possible partners if Kat is Wolf, based on the amount of jokish-hedging she's done on him without going there.

 

Kat-Lenlo are the other possibility, but I think it's ~less likely that Wolf!Kat would make out of the blue posts hard-defending a partner like she did with the Hallia-Lenlo interactions?

 

 

9 hours ago, Lenlo said:

Originally I would have said Nyn, but your pushin her today.

 

So AJ since we are the only ones here I have a proposition for you.

 

Today is L-2. If you can trust me, I will accuse Nyn today for you. She flips wolf, you and me go into D4 allies against the last remaining wolf. I accuse you, everyone probably says no and I out myself. She flips town, if I am still alive I scream your lynch to the high heavens cause its L-1 and screw it.

 

Now you may ask why I don't just trust you with the accuse. Its simple. If you accuse me and I get lynched, there will be no one to really fight you tomorrow. We both know that if it came down to it, people would vote to lynch me on accuse. So I don't trust you with that because getting rid of me would very easily remove your problem.

 

What do you mean by bold "out yourself"?

 

And this seems like a poor option imo.

 

If you think AJ's Wolf, and teamed with Kat, who's your next Scum lean, why vote Nyn? Why not see if he'll vote/lynch Kat?

[Cass]

..

6 hours ago, Andrej said:

?

 

ngl I’m tempted but it also feels like a setup.

 

you go from 100% sure I’m scum to wanting to make deals with me, so I don’t really know how to take that.

 

If you have to make a call one way or another, how are you reading Lenlo, AJ?

 

Many lines in your back and forth sound like you're calling him/his push out as Scum (eg. "whatever helps your position"/"you're trying to set this fearmongering narrative"/it's "perfect partner placement"/comparisons with previous Scum game)?

[Illian Tear]

If you notice in the posts that Kat was a part of. In each voting of someone being guilty, Kat always said yes.

[Lenlo]

Because if we do the Kat push, it proves nothing. Nyn was his suggestion and his push. That puts it on him. If Nyn dies, then I get shot for the NK, then it obviously becomes AJ/Kat. It lines it up perfectly for you for the L-1 days Cass. 

 

As for outting myself, I know im not a wolf, but the argument is that if I go against my word and accuse AJ then I am "clearly a wolf". I know I won't do that, so its not a problem for me to make that statement. Im just covering bases.

[Cass]

24 minutes ago, Lenlo said:

Because if we do the Kat push, it proves nothing. Nyn was his suggestion and his push. That puts it on him. If Nyn dies, then I get shot for the NK, then it obviously becomes AJ/Kat. It lines it up perfectly for you for the L-1 days Cass. 

 

As for outting myself, I know im not a wolf, but the argument is that if I go against my word and accuse AJ then I am "clearly a wolf". I know I won't do that, so its not a problem for me to make that statement. Im just covering bases.

 

The real question/objective is to lynch the wolves as we find them imo, not sacrifice those we think will flip Town...

 

Do you think Nyn is >> rand wolf than AJ/Kat?

 

As above, why would WolfNyn vote TownDice to be the Accuser when she is his main WTL?

[Lenlo]

1 minute ago, Cass said:

 

The real question/objective is to lynch the wolves as we find them imo, not sacrifice those we think will flip Town...

 

Do you think Nyn is >> rand wolf than AJ/Kat?

 

As above, why would WolfNyn vote TownDice to be the Accuser when she is his main WTL?

1) I know that. You find me townies willing to actually be active and hunt with us so I don't have to make deals with AJ to get more than 1 vote, and we can do that. Another perfectly valid strategy is finding a town core and going from there,, the opposite end.

 

That is what I am doing here. I am gambling on a lynch at L-2 to prove AJ's slot one way or the other. If Nyn flips town, then AJ/Kat is the wolf team. If she flips wolf, then the fact that AJ pushed this and agreed to this looks good for him and I am willing to go after Kat and lynch PoE until we get to L-1, where I will reevaluate.

 

2) I think she has a decent chance. Both wolves are inside Kat/AJ/Nyn. If AJ is alright with lynching Kat instead of Nyn, then I would love that. But Nyn was his push and with the inactive town, I have to make compromises to move this game forward.

 

3) I don't know. Considering she isn't here and doesn't give thoughts, I don't really care and its not worth thinking about. Kat/AJ/Nyn has the wolves in it. 

[Cass]

43 minutes ago, Illian Tear said:

If you notice in the posts that Kat was a part of. In each voting of someone being guilty, Kat always said yes.

 

True... The tricky thing about that is it's quite possible from both Town/Wolf perspective. 

 

Do you have any further thoughts on other players/ who you'd like for Accuser/to Lynch?

[Katiora]

8 hours ago, Cass said:

LightDarnIT! DM just lost my thoughts/summary for each day.

Running late for work. 

 

TLDR top of my head

I wanna go compare this with a couple of other Kat games.

Apart from Voting Dice for Accuser when she was in his WTL (this would be a strange/bold move as Scum IMO), I don't see much to keep Kat out of null/possi-scum here. The high fluff and low relative hunting/contribution concerns me but in general

 

Her reads progression has been ~ok.

There was a lot of fluff and hedging on AJ

Similar with Clov,

The Hallia reasoning for not voting/not being WTL D1 was ~ok imo

As was the reasoning for voting Penguin - which also fit with her previous PoE

She's been steadily considering Nyn

She's given reasoning for her progression on moving Lenlo higher in her reads, no further on that

I'm less sure on her progression on Seph - She hasn't been back since voting Dice for Accuser and submitting a Yes vote for Seph

 

@Katiora can you explain your thoughts/decision on Seph pls?

 

Where are you at today?

 

 

 

I'm still trying to catch up. We've had a reoccurance of the stomach bug at our house and so I got about 3-4 hours of sleep last night. So I'm a little foggy so It's going to take a minute. This week has also been a bit crazy at work so I didn't get on here at all yesterday, I apologize. I realized this morning that we were probably on the verge of day end and I had forgotten about this game so my bad. 

 

 

My thoughts/decision on Seph honestly was that he seemed way too sure that I am town. I felt like he was trying to pocket me. I also felt like he probably thought there was a good chance of Dice accusing me and then him being "justified" with his read on a towny. I went back and reread some of his last day here and it made me nervous. Honestly thought that there was a good chance that Dice had caught scum. Seph had been fairly quiet. Just enough here to really keep under suspicion. I was wrong but that's nothing new this game. I think that it sucks that we can't express our views with our vote too. Because the thing is anyone could be making up any excuse to justify their vote afterwards. I really hate this game btw. (Sorry Cory) Honestly, I'm town. There's no way to prove I'm town. There's just not. There is not a single thing I can do at this point (and honestly at any point this game) to even remotely point towards being town. 

 

 

I am totally lost at where to go either. I chose Dice as accuser mostly because I thought he would go after Nyn, but honestly this game I'm just not sure. Darc has gotten much quieter as the game has gone on which is suspicious for me. For someone who tried to appear they had such a good hold on the game earlier, it looks a little suspicious to me. I'm also tinfoiling on Cass. But, I think it's just tinfoil. I keep thinking though, if Cass and Lenlo are both scum we are so screwed. And the thing is  I think it's a very good possibility. ? 

 

I honestly don't know if I think AJ is scum. At this point him being alive means nothing. He has been under hard suspicion really since Clov died. He makes a better scape goat for Scum if they can manage to let him live to late game and he's not hurting them. Everyone is suspicious of AJ when he makes it alive to after D2. Same goes for Nyn. 

 

 

 

[Cass]

17 minutes ago, Lenlo said:

1) I know that. You find me townies willing to actually be active and hunt with us so I don't have to make deals with AJ to get more than 1 vote, and we can do that. Another perfectly valid strategy is finding a town core and going from there,, the opposite end.

 

Illian and I are here and hunting... we also still have some time, and can push/call for Darc/Nyn/Kat to come and chime in as well.

 

Quote

 

That is what I am doing here. I am gambling on a lynch at L-2 to prove AJ's slot one way or the other. If Nyn flips town, then AJ/Kat is the wolf team. If she flips wolf, then the fact that AJ pushed this and agreed to this looks good for him and I am willing to go after Kat and lynch PoE until we get to L-1, where I will reevaluate.

 

Quote

 

2) I think she has a decent chance. Both wolves are inside Kat/AJ/Nyn. If AJ is alright with lynching Kat instead of Nyn, then I would love that. But Nyn was his push and with the inactive town, I have to make compromises to move this game forward.

 

3) I don't know. Considering she isn't here and doesn't give thoughts, I don't really care and its not worth thinking about. Kat/AJ/Nyn has the wolves in it. 

 

I ~get what you're saying, I just don't like the preference of going to L-1 to lynch someone you think it's less likely to flip Wolf, instead of going for the wolfiest reads straight up. I'd rather do more work and figure people out as much as possible to give the best chance of lynching Wolf first. 

 

I'd also like to wait and see where AJ/everyone's at first before pushing super hard at that option. 

 

I still need to ISO Nyn, and I hear you on the above, but I think it does matter/is worth thinking about. If you find a reason to call someone Town, you pay attention to it/don't lynch them because they're inactive/LHF, IMO.

 

You've said yourself that Kat is AJ's most likely partner if he is Wolf. Ie you believe Nyn is more likely to flip Town. 

 

FWIW Kat has been WTL Nyn, and AFAICT, focusing on her as her preferred lynch since D2.

[Lenlo]

3 minutes ago, Cass said:

 

Illian and I are here and hunting... we also still have some time, and can push/call for Darc/Nyn/Kat to come and chime in as well.

 

Yeah... not so much.

 

3 minutes ago, Cass said:

 

I ~get what you're saying, I just don't like the preference of going to L-1 to lynch someone you think it's less likely to flip Wolf, instead of going for the wolfiest reads straight up. I'd rather do more work and figure people out as much as possible to give the best chance of lynching Wolf first. 

 

I'd also like to wait and see where AJ/everyone's at first before pushing super hard at that option. 

 

I still need to ISO Nyn, and I hear you on the above, but I think it does matter/is worth thinking about. If you find a reason to call someone Town, you pay attention to it/don't lynch them because they're inactive/LHF, IMO.

 

You've said yourself that Kat is AJ's most likely partner if he is Wolf. Ie you believe Nyn is more likely to flip Town. 

 

FWIW Kat has been WTL Nyn, and AFAICT, focusing on her as her preferred lynch since D2.

Youd like to wait and see where AJ is? Have you not read this day? Its like your stalling or something, this is ridiculous. Go ahead and reread if you want, we have time, but fact is at some point you have to actually do something. Sitting back and waiting, going "Well lets just look a biiiit more" accomplishes nothing.

 

I think Nyn is more likely to flip town than AJ and Kat yes. I also suck at this game. So I am willing to admit I might be wrong. That is why I am making this gamble on L-2, when we still have time to recover in D5 if it doesn't work out. If it does work though, its huge. It clears AJ, knocks out a wolf, sets us up as a team and presents a unified front instead of dragging the thread through the mud.

 

Is it risky? Yes. But it is also very rewarding if it works. So its a risk I am willing to take on L-2.

[Cass]

23 minutes ago, Katiora said:

I'm still trying to catch up. We've had a reoccurance of the stomach bug at our house and so I got about 3-4 hours of sleep last night. So I'm a little foggy so It's going to take a minute. This week has also been a bit crazy at work so I didn't get on here at all yesterday, I apologize. I realized this morning that we were probably on the verge of day end and I had forgotten about this game so my bad. 

 

Boooooo and ewwww for Tummy bugs!

 

23 minutes ago, Katiora said:

 

My thoughts/decision on Seph honestly was that he seemed way too sure that I am town. I felt like he was trying to pocket me. I also felt like he probably thought there was a good chance of Dice accusing me and then him being "justified" with his read on a towny. I went back and reread some of his last day here and it made me nervous. Honestly thought that there was a good chance that Dice had caught scum. Seph had been fairly quiet. Just enough here to really keep under suspicion.

 

Kk, what had him low in your PoE early in the game, before you asked Darc for her views on him? IIRC Your comments said you'd liked some of his posts, but not why you had him in the lowest tier?

 

23 minutes ago, Katiora said:

 

I was wrong but that's nothing new this game. I think that it sucks that we can't express our views with our vote too. Because the thing is anyone could be making up any excuse to justify their vote afterwards. I really hate this game btw. (Sorry Cory) Honestly, I'm town. There's no way to prove I'm town. There's just not. There is not a single thing I can do at this point (and honestly at any point this game) to even remotely point towards being town. 

 

You can express your view afterwards... IMO in _that_ sense,  there's not much difference between this and other games where you're voting/not voting for a lead train.

 

23 minutes ago, Katiora said:

I am totally lost at where to go either. I chose Dice as accuser mostly because I thought he would go after Nyn, but honestly this game I'm just not sure. Darc has gotten much quieter as the game has gone on which is suspicious for me. For someone who tried to appear they had such a good hold on the game earlier, it looks a little suspicious to me. I'm also tinfoiling on Cass. But, I think it's just tinfoil. I keep thinking though, if Cass and Lenlo are both scum we are so screwed. And the thing is  I think it's a very good possibility. ? 

 

I honestly don't know if I think AJ is scum. At this point him being alive means nothing. He has been under hard suspicion really since Clov died. He makes a better scape goat for Scum if they can manage to let him live to late game and he's not hurting them. Everyone is suspicious of AJ when he makes it alive to after D2. Same goes for Nyn. 

 

I'm not Scum here, there's no way I don't peter out by now with that rand - you agreed D2 with Clov that I'm never Scum here - Why the change of mind/other than fear, what makes Scum-Me teamed with Scum-Lenlo a 'very good possibility'? 

 

I agree with the Darc comment and have been waiting for her to return also. Needs a re-read, but I'm currently sheeping Tripped/Clov on the ~Scum-Darc doesn't call out her Scum buddy D1~ thing and still find it more likely that Hallia makes the "I'm a trash read, Darc? Harsh" comment as a post-game nod to a good read, than as a twisty distance attempt with a Scum bud?

 

I also think AJ being alive at this point is currently null, given that those who've been NK'd have been higher consensus Town at each step. 

 

Can you order those thoughts/leans?

[Cass]

16 minutes ago, Lenlo said:

Yeah... not so much.

 

Youd like to wait and see where AJ is? Have you not read this day? Its like your stalling or something, this is ridiculous. Go ahead and reread if you want, we have time, but fact is at some point you have to actually do something. Sitting back and waiting, going "Well lets just look a biiiit more" accomplishes nothing.

 

I think Nyn is more likely to flip town than AJ and Kat yes. I also suck at this game. So I am willing to admit I might be wrong. That is why I am making this gamble on L-2, when we still have time to recover in D5 if it doesn't work out. If it does work though, its huge. It clears AJ, knocks out a wolf, sets us up as a team and presents a unified front instead of dragging the thread through the mud.

 

Is it risky? Yes. But it is also very rewarding if it works. So its a risk I am willing to take on L-2.

 

I have actually done something?

 

I have voted to accuse Kat, and have given a reason that Nyn might well be Town.

 

Given that AJs pushing for her lynch,  I'm waiting to see how he considers/responds.

 

Currently, he has skipped over my posts on Kat and gone straight for "Am I right that you'd lynch Nyn?"

 

And he hasn't responded to the question about Nyn voting Dice to accuse her yet, either. 

[Andrej]

NGL I think Cass’s reaction to the idea of lynching Nyn is ~concerning. I think you’re assigning way too much weight into something like that when she’s had next to nothing anywhere else. There is never a time I want to compromise today and carry her into F5.

[Cass]

@darc-star

 

Thoughts since you've come in?

[Lenlo]

1 minute ago, Cass said:

 

I have actually done something?

 

I have voted to accuse Kat, and have given a reason that Nyn might well be Town.

 

Given that AJs pushing for her lynch,  I'm waiting to see how he considers/responds.

 

Currently, he has skipped over my posts on Kat and gone straight for "Am I right that you'd lynch Nyn?"

 

And he hasn't responded to the question about Nyn voting Dice to accuse her yet, either. 

Youve started to do somethin, sure. What about Illian, Nyn and Darc today?

 

As Nyn, I think you are vastly over-reaching on this. At some point the good-will runs dry,

[Andrej]

To be more specific about it, I don’t really think Town!Cass believes that in itself is a clearing action, especially for a player who is as readable as Nyn. Kat voted Clov when he was thinking about putting her up, but she’s still bottom of the POE?

 

I also agree with Len, for all the fuss about wanting to review others she is sticking hard to one point to bolster a read that atp isn’t justified imo.