What to keep, what to drop?

[DragonFairy]

On 5/10/2019 at 3:43 PM, DemandredFO said:

If I were them, I'd just drop pillow friends as it really doesn't add significance to the story and might smack of a J.K. Rowling style pronouncement

I'm all for dropping pillow friends as it contributes absolutely nothing to the story.

What do you mean by JK Rowling style pronouncement?

On 5/10/2019 at 3:43 PM, DemandredFO said:

They have to include Baerlon if for no other reason than that's the first time the boys see the dreaded Aes Sedai as human and the line dancing scene would probably be hilarious too.

I love that dancing scene! I would like to see more dancing scenes because dancing is such an important part of the culture. (Think the Tudors--lots of dancing in that show.)

But they need to keep Baerlon anyway because that is when they first meet Min.

 

I'm not suggesting they drop Perrin falling in love with Faile, but perhaps not so soon? He was such a strong willed character before he fell in love with her; I never liked him being wrapped around her little finger. I didn't like them as a couple period. Perrin is humble, Faile is arrogant. Perrin is thoughtful, Faile is rash. Perrin is cautious, Faile is headstrong. Perrin is polite, Faile is rude. What on earth is he supposed to see in her?

I loved it when he thought about throwing her overboard ("seriously, this time") when she boards the ship they take to Illian!

[DemandredFO]

@DragonFairyI was trying to be funny but sometimes I assume everyone follows the same things I do, sorry. What I meant was that pillow friends would just confuse a lot of the audience.

[DragonFairy]

2 hours ago, DemandredFO said:

@DragonFairyI was trying to be funny but sometimes I assume everyone follows the same things I do, sorry. What I meant was that pillow friends would just confuse a lot of the audience.

 

Oh, I got that. I just was wondering what you were referring to about JK Rowling. I have heard she's come out with some preposterous stuff about the world of Harry Potter, seemingly just trying to keep herself in the mainstream.

[DragonFairy]

On 2/27/2019 at 8:04 AM, Apple151 said:

What to keep: The idea of a wheel of time TV series

 

What to drop: This particular wheel of time TV series.

Don't have faith in Rafe Judkins, huh? I don't keep up with producers, show runners, writers and the like, but looking at his experience, he certainly has never done anything even close to the magnitude of WoT, but then, not many have. Someone who's produced a successful movie trilogy would be the closest.

 

At least he loves the books, and wants to do them justice.

 

I am thrilled that Amazon hired Bryan Cogman (from GoT) to advise for their Middle Earth prequel series,; I wish they'd hire him for WoT too!

[Tyevic]

On 10/11/2018 at 10:35 AM, Maedelin said:

Didn't the big white book of exposition explain ethnicities of people? I recall somewhere in there they mention the Seanchan a mixture of Texas and Imperial China? "Y'all bow to the Empress,  may she live forever, y'hear?" Seems to be a quote in the back of my mind.

How Texan? I am from Texas and don't see it. They to me are more like the Asian culture than anything else.

[DragonFairy]

2 hours ago, Tyevic said:

How Texan? I am from Texas and don't see it. They to me are more like the Asian culture than anything else.

I lived in TX for 14 years and the only part about Seanchan that could relate to Texas is their speech--that did make me think of the Texas (or southern) drawl.

[Agitel]

11 hours ago, Tyevic said:

How Texan? I am from Texas and don't see it. They to me are more like the Asian culture than anything else.

 

I remember Jordan comparing their speech (often described by the main characters as a "drawl") to a Texan drawl. Beyond how he imagined their speech I don't think there are any cultural similarities.

Edited June 7, 2019 by Agitel

[amegakure]

why is polygamy such a big deal for the show to pull off? Polygamy/open relationships are starting to become quite popular, why do we need to cut this just to appease a few people who take things a little to seriously?  

[Dagon Thyne]

On 11/9/2018 at 8:02 AM, dexterryu said:

 

They could still keep them as 3 lovers, just not 3 ongoing simultaneous lovers. Relationships end amicably and they remain friends/allies.

From what they have released on their plans, it sounds like, Elayne and Aviendha will share him, but will also be in a romantic relationship with each other.  It sounds like they are planning on having their relationship be a more polyamorous feel to it, with all of them sharing each other.  I'm unsure of what this means for his relationship with Min, because even in the books she didn't really ever feel comfortable with sharing him, and she and Aviendha never really got that close.    

[Dagon Thyne]

On 6/6/2019 at 8:24 PM, Tyevic said:

How Texan? I am from Texas and don't see it. They to me are more like the Asian culture than anything else.

According to RJ, the Seanchan accent is an Texas accent.

 

However, when it comes to their ethnicity, there isn't one single one.  The "Blood" are decended from people from the Westlands, which would have all sorts of ethnicities because they would be from all over the Westlands, but Luthar's armies also mated with Seanchan natives who are primarily based on Native American tribes.  

 

Their culture is based on the Chinese and Japanese Empires mostly with the emperor/empress being viewed as an almost god-like being and all people being their property.  

[amegakure]

15 minutes ago, Dagon Thyne said:

From what they have released on their plans, it sounds like, Elayne and Aviendha will share him, but will also be in a romantic relationship with each other.  It sounds like they are planning on having their relationship be a more polyamorous feel to it, with all of them sharing each other.  I'm unsure of what this means for his relationship with Min, because even in the books she didn't really ever feel comfortable with sharing him, and she and Aviendha never really got that close.    

 

where did you find this info? twitter? or is there a site with updates?

[DragonFairy]

23 hours ago, Dagon Thyne said:

From what they have released on their plans, it sounds like, Elayne and Aviendha will share him, but will also be in a romantic relationship with each other.  It sounds like they are planning on having their relationship be a more polyamorous feel to it, with all of them sharing each other.  I'm unsure of what this means for his relationship with Min, because even in the books she didn't really ever feel comfortable with sharing him, and she and Aviendha never really got that close.    

 

I think that would go over worse than just the three of them sharing Rand. Either stick with the book, or make the relationships occur separately, but having Elayne and Aviendha share Rand AND in a relationship with each other is stretching it too much. It does absolutely nothing to enhance the story. It is simply appeasement and there are already going to be pillow friends.

[Dagon Thyne]

On 6/6/2019 at 11:01 PM, DragonFairy said:

I lived in TX for 14 years and the only part about Seanchan that could relate to Texas is their speech--that did make me think of the Texas (or southern) drawl.

Asian in culture yes, but their accent, according to RJ, is based on Texas.  Culture and accents do not match in the series.  You have the Shienarans who are not asian at all using katanas and wearing samurai armor.   You have the Domani using the quivelent of chopsticks, and slicing their food into slivered (kinda like stir fry), while also not being asian.

 

Basically, the Seanchan are gonna be a mix of of ethnicities, but mostly all speaking with a Texas accent.  When it comes to ethnicity, the Seanchan are actually the most diverse,...

Tuon is black (having skin like ebony)

Other Seanchan are white.

There are several native-Americanish tribes in Seanchan as well.  

[DragonFairy]

It's almost like Jordan put a bunch of ethnic cultural features into a bag, shook it up and then just added them at random for each country. Except Cairhien. They seem very 18th century French with their fair skin and the women's fashions, not to mention the Game of Houses, although that would apply to any European monarchy.

[DemandredFO]

The Wheel is supposed be our world, just a different time period and after lot's of societal changes.

 

[DragonFairy]

Did Jordan say that? I thought that was just a fan theory. It would have to be in the far future for the continents to be so different.

[Captainwilhelm96]

Not necessarily since the breaking reshaped the continents and we have no pre-breaking maps and so no way of knowing what the continents looked like in the Age of Legends.

[JenniferL]

This hasn’t been updated in awhile, but it’s still accurate. 

 

http://www.steelypips.org/wotfaq/3_sources/3.12_future-earth.html

[Jaglover]

Maybe a controversial opinion but I always thought Eye of the world was the weakest of the first six books. To me it seemed to be before RJ developed his own style and was being a bit too sub-Tolkien.

 

It terms of what can be dropped from that first book, I remember the Perrin story being rather dull and could be cut entirely, while Rand and Matts journey could also be condensed heavily.  Hopefully they are also bringing in elements of book 2 as well, because to me, books three to six need at least a series each, probably longer. 

 

In terms of rumours about increased "sex" and "diversity". You do have the issue that the fundamental character of the three rivers folk is their small town conservatism. It is a core of Rand's character at the start for example that if he had started doing it with Egwene he would have offered to marry her the next day. Take that away and you have different characters in a show called WOT, but not keeping its core. 

 

Fine with Morraine being lesbian if they want to up the sexiness and diversity count, maybe a few flashbacks with her "pillow friend" could partially tick both boxes. 

 

[johnnysd2]

4 minutes ago, Jaglover said:

Maybe a controversial opinion but I always thought Eye of the world was the weakest of the first six books. To me it seemed to be before RJ developed his own style and was being a bit too sub-Tolkien.

 

It terms of what can be dropped from that first book, I remember the Perrin story being rather dull and could be cut entirely, while Rand and Matts journey could also be condensed heavily.  Hopefully they are also bringing in elements of book 2 as well, because to me, books three to six need at least a series each, probably longer. 

 

In terms of rumours about increased "sex" and "diversity". You do have the issue that the fundamental character of the three rivers folk is their small town conservatism. It is a core of Rand's character at the start for example that if he had started doing it with Egwene he would have offered to marry her the next day. Take that away and you have different characters in a show called WOT, but not keeping its core. 

 

Fine with Morraine being lesbian if they want to up the sexiness and diversity count, maybe a few flashbacks with her "pillow friend" could partially tick both boxes. 

 

 

Not sure I would agree with your sentiments. For many, Perrin's side journey in EoTW is a favorite part of the series. I do agree Jordan's "style" got better later, but EoTW is still in the very top of the books for me. The last 200 pages or so are amazing. In terms of the sex, having a higher degree of nudity and sex outside of the Two Rivers clan can reinforce their backwardness.  The casting listings for the parts in WOT do list nudity as a requirement even for the major parts so we are definitely getting an R rated WOT, just depends on how hard.

[DemandredFO]

I really wish they would drop pillows, I don't think it will get them significantly more viewers.

[Jaglover]

9 hours ago, DemandredFO said:

I really wish they would drop pillows, I don't think it will get them significantly more viewers.

 

Well the show runner has said (I believe) that they want more diversity including a LGBT element. An easy way to bring that in, without drastically changing any of the core characters, is to develop themes already in the books, hinted at by "pillow friends". Make some of the Aes Sedai bisexual and make others exclusively Lesbian. 

 

It is not to say that this will necessarily improve the show over the books, only that it would then garner positive media attention and also position it more in the adult rather than PG-13 camp. Given that Morraine's relationship with Thom is tacked on at the end she seems an obvious choice to move in that direction. 

[Jaglover]

13 hours ago, johnnysd2 said:

 

Not sure I would agree with your sentiments. For many, Perrin's side journey in EoTW is a favorite part of the series. I do agree Jordan's "style" got better later, but EoTW is still in the very top of the books for me. The last 200 pages or so are amazing. 

 

I didn't say the EOTW was a bad book just the weakest of the first six. His style wasn't fully developed, the magical system wasn't developed either (there are for example uses of the source in that book that never reoccur) and the tone of a lot of it is standard sub-Tolkien fare.

 

There are fourteen books in the series and they are likely to be heading for GOT size or a bit larger, so you cannot simply focus all the stuff excised to books seven through eleven, which are commonly agreed to be the most bloated. Elements have to be taken out of EOTW as well, bearing in mind they are apparently going to add more elements with Logain and there is the potential to add flashbacks to the prequel.  

 

In addition the success of the series is going to stand or fall largely based on its first season. So they cannot afford a weaker first season to be made up for by amazing seasons 3, 4 and 5, because they may never get there. 

Edited June 29, 2019 by Jaglover

[johnnysd2]

6 hours ago, Jaglover said:

 

I didn't say the EOTW was a bad book just the weakest of the first six. His style wasn't fully developed, the magical system wasn't developed either (there are for example uses of the source in that book that never reoccur) and the tone of a lot of it is standard sub-Tolkien fare.

 

There are fourteen books in the series and they are likely to be heading for GOT size or a bit larger, so you cannot simply focus all the stuff excised to books seven through eleven, which are commonly agreed to be the most bloated. Elements have to be taken out of EOTW as well, bearing in mind they are apparently going to add more elements with Logain and there is the potential to add flashbacks to the prequel.  

 

In addition the success of the series is going to stand or fall largely based on its first season. So they cannot afford a weaker first season to be made up for by amazing seasons 3, 4 and 5, because they may never get there. 

 

I guess I just dont see from a narrative standpoint why Season 1 will be weaker. As a comparison it would be way more exciting than the first season of GOT, and it introduces many key elements and characters and the end is phenomenally exciting. i suspect they may incorporate the first few chapters of Book 2 as well and end with the start of the hunt. So maybe 8 episodes for EoTW and 2 for Great Hunt

[johnnysd2]

18 hours ago, DemandredFO said:

I really wish they would drop pillows, I don't think it will get them significantly more viewers.

 

Sex sells, though I dont think it will be raunchy like GOT.