Why do people think tobac doesn't have the same dangers as real world tobacco?

[Dagon Thyne]

The fact that lung cancer, and other smoking-based diseases are not common causes of death in the WOT world have lead to many fans to assume that tobac do not have the same daangers as it's real world counterpart, but this is just idiotic.  You have to remember that in that world that anyone who suffers from a deadly disease can simply request healing from the Aes Sedai.  The Aes Sedai get people coming to them in thousands to make such requests.  It is literally the job of the Yellow Ajah to heal people.   They likely heal their fair share of cancers.

 

Edited May 18, 2018 by Dagon Thyne

[solarz]

That's because before the advent of modern medicine, the biggest causes of death were infectious diseases, not cancer.

 

Tobacco use takes years to develop into cancer. In a world without any understanding of epidemiology or statistics, there is no way they can figure out the dangers of tabac. In any case, compared to the various kinds of infectious diseases, not to mention trollocs, the dangers of tabac use are very low in priority.

[Wulf]

Though with a channeler's extended lifespan, it would seem logical that cancer would be their #1 threat.

[Dagon Thyne]

14 hours ago, solarz said:

That's because before the advent of modern medicine, the biggest causes of death were infectious diseases, not cancer.

 

Tobacco use takes years to develop into cancer. In a world without any understanding of epidemiology or statistics, there is no way they can figure out the dangers of tabac. In any case, compared to the various kinds of infectious diseases, not to mention trollocs, the dangers of tabac use are very low in priority.

Exactly.  So, why do so many fans simply assume that tobac has no health risks?  

Also, in a world where healing with magic is possible, infectious diseases are less of a threat.   I am sure the Aes Sedai send yellow sisters to heal outbreaks.  

Also, you are assuming that they would have no understanding of epidemiology, and statistics, but I am thinking they probably do.  Keeping track of outbreak patterns seems to be something a Brown sisters would do, or even a Yellow sister, if she were interested in studying the causes of a disease in order to better understand it.  

Edited May 19, 2018 by Dagon Thyne

[threadnecromancer]

On ‎2018‎-‎05‎-‎18 at 9:59 AM, solarz said:

That's because before the advent of modern medicine, the biggest causes of death were infectious diseases, not cancer.

 

Tobacco use takes years to develop into cancer. In a world without any understanding of epidemiology or statistics, there is no way they can figure out the dangers of tabac. In any case, compared to the various kinds of infectious diseases, not to mention trollocs, the dangers of tabac use are very low in priority.

I don't think it is true that one cannot discover the dangers of tabac. In the seventeenth century people said tobacco was bad for you. It's just that people didn't really listen.

 

I agree with the general topic of the thread, I see no reason why tabac would be any less unhealthy than tobacco, or for that matter why it would be any different. It's life kaf, it's just a vaguely different name for something we already have.

[solarz]

On 5/19/2018 at 2:41 AM, Dagon Thyne said:

Exactly.  So, why do so many fans simply assume that tobac has no health risks?  

Also, in a world where healing with magic is possible, infectious diseases are less of a threat.   I am sure the Aes Sedai send yellow sisters to heal outbreaks.  

Also, you are assuming that they would have no understanding of epidemiology, and statistics, but I am thinking they probably do.  Keeping track of outbreak patterns seems to be something a Brown sisters would do, or even a Yellow sister, if she were interested in studying the causes of a disease in order to better understand it.  

 

Aes Sedai are known for keeping secrets, not for making public health announcements.

 

Personally, I just don't see Yellow Ajah Aes Sedai going around proclaiming the health dangers of this and that.

 

"First Weaver's Warning: Smoking Causes Lung Cancer, Heart Disease, Emphysema, and May Complicate Pregnancy."

[TheSociopath]

Well, one would assume that many fans think that tabac has no health risks from the fact that none are mentioned in the book. While they might very well be wrong, we don't have any evidence, and neither do they.

 

In fact, as for kaf, we don't even get any signs of it giving energy boosts.

[solarz]

17 hours ago, TheSociopath said:

Well, one would assume that many fans think that tabac has no health risks from the fact that none are mentioned in the book. While they might very well be wrong, we don't have any evidence, and neither do they.

 

In fact, as for kaf, we don't even get any signs of it giving energy boosts.

 

Personally, I haven't seen any sign of coffee giving energy boosts either, lol.

[TheSociopath]

yeah, well you know what I mean

[Dagon Thyne]

On 5/22/2018 at 10:52 AM, solarz said:

 

Aes Sedai are known for keeping secrets, not for making public health announcements.

 

Personally, I just don't see Yellow Ajah Aes Sedai going around proclaiming the health dangers of this and that.

 

"First Weaver's Warning: Smoking Causes Lung Cancer, Heart Disease, Emphysema, and May Complicate Pregnancy."

 

Yes, but thatdoesn't mean it DOESN"T cause have those dangers.   There could be thousands of people traveling to the WT every year to get healed for lung cancers that they have no idea was caused by tobac, but for some reason, many fans have the mindset that because the dangers of smoking are not specifically mentioned in the books that tobac doesn't have the same health risks as tobac. 

Edited June 14, 2018 by Dagon Thyne

[Dagon Thyne]

On 5/22/2018 at 4:56 PM, TheSociopath said:

Well, one would assume that many fans think that tabac has no health risks from the fact that none are mentioned in the book. While they might very well be wrong, we don't have any evidence, and neither do they.

 

In fact, as for kaf, we don't even get any signs of it giving energy boosts.

The dangers of eating nails is also not mentioned    So since we have no evidence that eating nails is dangerous in the WOT world. it must not be.

 

Yeah I don't buy that.  I assume that it poses the same risk as it's RL counterpart, or, in peaches case, far more risk.  Remember OUR world and OUR time. ARE the First Age.  Tobac IS tobacco.  They are one and the same.   

[TheSociopath]

On 6/14/2018 at 1:14 AM, Dagon Thyne said:

 

 Remember OUR world and OUR time. ARE the First Age.  Tobac IS tobacco.  They are one and the same.   

is that confirmed in one of the interviews?

[Orderofolde]

Pipe tobacco and Cigarette tobacco are different.  Also, in Randland Big Tobacco hasn't pumped all kinds of chemicals into the tobacco, they also don't recall Two Rivers Tobacco and steam in chemicals once past its date to "refresh it" and sell it as fresh tobacco...they also don't put fiberglass into chewing tobacco.  Randland Tobacco= Natural original Native American Tobacco.  Still not healthy, but in Randland it is an occasional enjoyment.

[Orderofolde]

Sorry for the rant, but I worked in retail and had to ship stale cigarettes back.  I made the mistake of asking the vendors if the company destroyed it and was told what they do with it.  Spread the cigarettes onto racks and treat them with chemicals and repackage them as new cigs.  Some of the tobacco products can be well over a year old.  Makes me even more glad I don't partake.  So the next time you smokers detect a slight difference in your cigarette...now you know it's probably one of those packed with extra chems!

[Talmanes]

I agree with the note that the tabac in the WoT is not using chemicals and all the junk that makes modern day tabacco extra bad for you probably playsba role. Also we don't really know if cancer is known or not now, but it probably was in the AoL when they were much more advanced and targeted in healing.

 

Healing in the Third Age is more like one size fits all, it's even noted by the Forsaken that it's basically battlefield healing, crude and not specialized.

 

Honestly what it comes down to is the fact that whether or not cancer is around is not relevant to the plot, so it's not mentioned. RJ liked to introduce lots of tiny charschters and arcs, but only if it advanced the main or sub plots.

 

Take peach pits being poison, mentioned throughout the series, and then comes into play when a poisoned dagger is used to try to kill someone (don't want to spoil any early readers). If a character was going to die from cancer or have cancer, it probably would have been mentioned.

 

If you want to get really technical, Rand's 'old wound' could be considered cancer, can be treated, but not fully cured. When he gets his second wound, Flinn basically gives him an autoimmune disease so that the cancer attacks the other wound and vice versa, instead of Rand's system.

 

Yes I've probably been watching too much House lately.

[solarz]

On 5/18/2018 at 5:26 PM, Wulf said:

Though with a channeler's extended lifespan, it would seem logical that cancer would be their #1 threat.

 

Not at all.

 

In the books, only men have ever been depicted to smoke tabac, and until very recently, the only channelers in the world were women. Male channelers did not exactly have extended lifespans...

 

Now, Ogier, on the other hand, is another matter. Perhaps they're immune to cancer? 

[Sabio]

Also it seems more of a thing they do when they are relaxing, you don't see many people walking about town smoking pipes.  Most of it is lounging about after a meal type of thing.

[haycraftd]

The way you smoke a pipe is fundamentally different from the way you smoke a cigarette--just as with a cigar, you only draw it into your mouth like you do when you're sucking a straw--you don't breathe it into your lungs.  The dangers are gum cancer, tongue cancer, mouth cancer, and I think you're still in danger of heart and blood problems--but you're not in imminent danger of lung cancer.

 

I've always figured that tobac is the same as tobacco--but I've also figured to let it be.  Not everyone who smokes gets cancer or heart disease, it's just the danger of it gigantically increases if you smoke.  

 

Some politicians like Winston Churchill smoked excessively but had very long lives--(although Churchill stuck to cigars, not cigarettes--that you smoke the same way you do a pipe)--so I've just figured to let everyone be Winston Churchills.

[Thrasymachus]

The people of the Third Age are the descendants of the people of the Second Age, the Age of Legends, where humanity achieved pinnacles of techno-magical abilities, and where even ordinary, non-magical people lived well past a hundred years.  I would imagine they would have eliminated potential for developing all kinds of cancers from their genomes.  We also don't see any other heritable disorders, even among nobility, which over three thousand years of more normal lifespans for most people, would probably pop up.

[Talmanes]

If you think about it, Healing (at least the kind that we see, so I'm extrapolating to all Healing) mostly just accelerates the body's natrual healing process (i.e. why you are tired afterwards, your body working extra hard to heal), so presumably, though it may be a bit of a stretch, if you were healed from a disease like cancer, you're teaching your body how to fight it, making you more likely to fight it off the next time.

 

Over generations, people would likely start being more resistant to certain types of diseases, especially if more targeted Healing was used on the AoL.

 

I still maintain it's more of a thing just not a part of the narrative, but if you want to get technical, it can be explained.

[Sabio]

Well according to the companion at the time of the last battle there were around 120 yellow ajah.  So unless you went to the White Tower (which I would guess few would want to do), the odds of an Aes Sedai coming by and saving you would be pretty slim, though the Red Ajah may pay the person a visit.  Especially if you lived in a place were Aes Seda were really frowned upon like Tear or Amadicia.  So my guess the Yellow mostly concerned themselves with outbreaks and preventing outbreaks.  Since people are still dying of sickness and disease in Rand's time, I doubt they have any resitances to something like cancer.  Rand's mom for instance died of sickness.  It could be that since medical knowledge is pretty limited in Rand's time, that many who die of cancer are simply listed as sickness or something.  Cancer is probably rare simply because many of the causes of cancer aren't around in Rand's time.

Edited June 26, 2018 by Sabio

[solarz]

On 6/25/2018 at 11:06 PM, Sabio said:

Well according to the companion at the time of the last battle there were around 120 yellow ajah.  So unless you went to the White Tower (which I would guess few would want to do), the odds of an Aes Sedai coming by and saving you would be pretty slim, though the Red Ajah may pay the person a visit.  Especially if you lived in a place were Aes Seda were really frowned upon like Tear or Amadicia.  So my guess the Yellow mostly concerned themselves with outbreaks and preventing outbreaks.  Since people are still dying of sickness and disease in Rand's time, I doubt they have any resitances to something like cancer.  Rand's mom for instance died of sickness.  It could be that since medical knowledge is pretty limited in Rand's time, that many who die of cancer are simply listed as sickness or something.  Cancer is probably rare simply because many of the causes of cancer aren't around in Rand's time.

 

There's also the fact that Yellow Ajah Aes Sedai are still Aes Sedai first. Despite whatever they claim, Healing is at best a hobby of theirs. Most of their time is spent, like other Aes Sedai, on politicking in the White Tower.