[Basic C9++] Murder Mystery Mafia D5

Sooh · April 18, 2017

Everyone says all my thoughts are wrong - posting them will likely not help.

I don't think your thoughts are wrong, I'm just having trouble understanding them. Perhaps if you could describe a bit more I would be able to get what you're seeing. I don't have to agree to understand if your thought process makes sense to you or not.

WolfbrotherKronos · April 18, 2017

Everyone says all my thoughts are wrong - posting them will likely not help.

I don't think your thoughts are wrong, I'm just having trouble understanding them. Perhaps if you could describe a bit more I would be able to get what you're seeing. I don't have to agree to understand if your thought process makes sense to you or not.

It's hard to describe intuition.

WolfbrotherKronos · April 18, 2017

Sorry just incredibly frustrated right now.

Kaylee · April 18, 2017

Never give up, never surrender!

WolfbrotherKronos · April 18, 2017

Saying they're "obviously wolfy" or "I'm obviously a villager" doesn't work for me and that has basically been what everyone is saying.

Songstress · April 18, 2017

Re: hard bussing D1, it's not that wolves won't do it, it's that who is potentially doing it matters. I tend to assume a leadership role as scum and I think bussing for no reason is stupid, but I will yolo as scum if someone wants to try something crazy, so basically it's possible that I could roll with a partner who's hell bent on a D1 hard bus but I'm never going to propose it myself. That's something you can factor in with me, Cory, Pizza, a lot of vocal players really, to feel pretty comfortable with me if I catch a wolf on the first day. If Zander or Kivam lead a lynch on a wolf D1 they deserve zero credit for the fact itself and you have to look at how they went about it. Darthe isn't going to stupidly dive into it but he's tricksy and you can't fully clear him for it. Etc. It's about the individual.

Re: Darthe, there was some discussion in the Fight Club mafia QT D1 about pulling a hard bus gambit, and he steered his teammates away from it because there were several players he knew wouldn't clear them for it. And a decent amount of town/town violence was due to the fact that I was willing to believe that he actually did it. :dry:

It did occur to me that since he just put that out there last game, he might be willing to do a complete 180 on it this game, because Darthe. I wouldn't put it past him, but I learned my lesson enough not to use that as a primary reason to suspect someone either.

*mutters something about going #FullDarthe*

Tigraine · April 18, 2017

Ive tried the multiquote button multiple times and it's not working out so I'm just going to refer to the last couple of pages in general.

I had originally pointed out 4 and said I believed of the 4, 2 were scum. I was asked to elaborate which I did. I was asked specifically, if i had to shoot one person right then and there, which would it be. I answered Manbat because at the time he had pinged my suspicions more than any of the others. The result was Manbat got his panties in a bunch and went after me hard. From that point on i have been defending myself for answering that question. Someone says I have focused ecerythibg on that but if you will read from that point on, I haven't had a chance to do more than talk about it or flat out refuse to answer questions in reference to it.

Now, someone stated that im pretty broken up about them reading ke as possibly scum. All i done was merely asked those two to tell me how they got from point a to point b. I hardly call that being broken up about it.

Someone else stated that i called them scum because of the back amd forth banter when what i said was i feel 2 of the 4 could be scum.

Shad, I'm not sure what you are referring to when my read on you is town. The point I was making about mafia voting mafia was in reference to my origional reasoning which I will say again, was because I have had to keep repeating that reasoning because some people are claiming not to understand my origional stance to begin with.

monstrman · April 18, 2017

tigraine we obviously will never understand each other if you are a villager

I've tried

I've tried so hard to reach out to you and you barely even acknowledge it outside of saying I'm getting my panties in a bunch over it

yes i am getting my panties in a bunch i think you are a wolf and i am utilizing everything in my power to get you deaded

i've considered that I could be wrong and you are a villager but you keep missing my key points and dismissing it as "no that was just the misunderstanding"

we are well past that

Sooh · April 18, 2017

Saying they're "obviously wolfy" or "I'm obviously a villager" doesn't work for me and that has basically been what everyone is saying.

Don't say that. Pick a post, say if it makes you feel like that person is a villager or a mafioso, and why it makes you feel that way.

Shad_ · April 18, 2017

Re: Darthe, there was some discussion in the Fight Club mafia QT D1 about pulling a hard bus gambit, and he steered his teammates away from it because there were several players he knew wouldn't clear them for it. And a decent amount of town/town violence was due to the fact that I was willing to believe that he actually did it.

It did occur to me that since he just put that out there last game, he might be willing to do a complete 180 on it this game, because Darthe. I wouldn't put it past him, but I learned my lesson enough not to use that as a primary reason to suspect someone either.

*mutters something about going #FullDarthe*

Yeah but Niniel though.

I don't know, I'm speaking from very limited experience, I just know that in World's End when our team was setting records for losing fast I proposed a last ditch hard bus gambit and she went pale in the face. Maybe that was more situational than I'm thinking but my suspicion is if someone suggested a bus gambit in QT her response would be absolutely not.

That being said I wouldn't consider anything here a 'hard bus' if it panned out w/w.

ed2funy · April 18, 2017

Was going to play mafia. Whatever little I care I had is now gone. If you all thought I was being empty and/or slanking before, just wait.

Niniel - thank you. When I read that, I assumed the top line was a joke (as I'm almost positive he had already established his read on them prior to that, and it wasn'tbecause they like each other)

He's made several posts about both cory and shad since. How do you feel about those?

I have nothing about that in my notes. I would have to go back and read and see what I can find.

I'll say this, since it's actually game related.

I didn't "give Seph a pass". I admitted that specific post looked bad. Then i weighed it against every post he mad that didn't. There were a hell of a lot more of those, and knowing Sephs tendency to make things a far bigger deal than I think many other players would, that post wasn't so incredibly awful to offset them.

If you expect people to erase a strong townread because of one or two posts...well, let's leave it at "I don't know what to tell you

Remind me, what is your view on Seph right now?

Continuing on this. I skimmed his iso and I don´t see him making several posts about them. I didn´t read it in context though so maybe some were answers to them. What posts did you have in mind?

This and her other posts at the time were mixed up in the bro club pages.

Clov is null-town imo for this because he's just clarifying and getting answers. Didn't mean scum to me.

Catching up is slow at work.

Kaylee · April 18, 2017

Anyone can look at my pic if they want. Feeling kinda photogenic today

Tigraine · April 18, 2017

tigraine we obviously will never understand each other if you are a villager

I've tried

I've tried so hard to reach out to you and you barely even acknowledge it outside of saying I'm getting my panties in a bunch over it

yes i am getting my panties in a bunch i think you are a wolf and i am utilizing everything in my power to get you deaded

i've considered that I could be wrong and you are a villager but you keep missing my key points and dismissing it as "no that was just the misunderstanding"

we are well past that

Your key points are null and void. You say I'm going after you hard and I'm not. I am defending my origional suspicions and my answering of a question. You are the one that voted me and you are the one that has kept this going by continually questioning what I have answered time and again. If you would go back and read it you would see that. So no I guess we won't ever understand each other.

DPR · April 18, 2017

Where I'm at:

Cory asked to be foiled. Imma 'blige.

If ignore the fact that he's at the top of everyone's list, I can see problems with his play.

1. He flopped all over with his votes. I'd have to iso to say exactly how many times, but over the course of the day he pointed the finger at a majority of players. That's exactly what I do as thoughtful scum. By the time he lol voted Darthe, it looked pretty obvious to me he was working an angle. It felt like he had a slow-burn case building on Niniel over the course of the day, and I'm just going to put bussing on the table. He said over and over and over how well he knows her game. Other people were voting her. She was pretty much a no-show, then put in a token effort, then evaporated. It would be a ballsy move, but also a glory move. Glory moves jive with the level of confidence he's displaying.

2. Faux emo. I was surprised he got upset during our dust-up. I had to think about that and the only time I ever throw emo like that into the ring is if my plan is in danger of being ruined. Bros or no bros, it's undeniable that he enjoys a high level of influence over the game and players. Doesn't make him a good or bad person, I'm sure he's earned it. but it would be naive to let someone with that amount of influence actually use it to the degree that he seems to be - and it's bugged me all game because I've been there, done that, and led towns into losing games. Naturally, I'm not a big fan when I see anyone doing the same thing. I label it faux emo because as soon as I acknowledged that I was contributing to the fight, he snapped right back and picked up where he left off, no worse for the wear and no change in his play that would reflect having learned something. He just subtly backed off me and got on with the game.

3. His case on me fits with how he wants people to think I play, but not really how I believe I do. I'll defer that to folks that have played with me - I ain't gonna try and convince anyone. But two things that stuck out to me the most were how he tried to steer me away from looking at individuals - because I'm looking at him - and his criticism of my "less aggressive" play this game when I've been very clear that I wanted to avoid the mistakes that cost town the last game. It's the same thing I didn't like about Seph's comment.

This is too long, I know, but i don't have time to go back and edit, so it is what it is.

4. He's referred to "deep wolves" multiple times. Thats always a ping for me. Especially on D1.

***

Moving on to other players...

Shad - is coasting along very nicely with Cory, like a well balanced tire. I don't have big problems with his play or observations, and I fear that this is exactly what is intended.

Darthe - still my top pick for scum and for the same reasons. Those were never resolved as far as I'm concerned and I lol'd at the comment i remarked on. This will undoubtedly become more clear tomorrow.

Seph - He started shaky but then fell in line with the bros and is moving along, appearing to be resolving. I'm still watching here, trying to see his play with an open mind.

Kronos - I need to see D2. I did not like the "I forgot about the game" return. He's either scum or he had the ability to just not care whether or not he got lynched, and that's not exactly town play. it leaves too much unresolved if he did get lynched and that's no bueno.

Batman - Bro. He's got his own style. He jumps at things that I wouldn't. I still don't get it, but I'm starting to see the flow of it. I've got him with Seph and Kronos, in the Need More Info pile.

ed - I won't make a firm call here until I see him leave the humor behind and really start to play. D2 will matter a lot and he continues to "catch up", I'll take that as a bad sign.

Killa - I'll give her points for a strong start to her first game - she's asking questions and offering opinions, fitting right in. I'm not a big fan of her getting caught up in Cory's influence, but I can't argue the pragmatism in that move.

Clov - Clov is growing on me. He's asking questions, offering observations and not going too far down rabbit holes. He's playing the way that I do as town, not in everything that he sees, but in the way that he goes about it.

Tigraine - I don't know how long she's been out, but having come back recently, i can feel for how different the game is played now vs. then. This goes for ed as well - it takes a minute to get the ground underneath your feet. I don't have problems with her play so far.

Tress - Playing conservatively. Could be either alignment, but is not pushing for anything bad, so no alarms here.

Sooh - Playing a more focused game than the other game I was in with her in a way that I feel is productive.

***

tl;dr - read it all anyway.

Shad_ · April 18, 2017

Shad, I'm not sure what you are referring to when my read on you is town. The point I was making about mafia voting mafia was in reference to my origional reasoning which I will say again, was because I have had to keep repeating that reasoning because some people are claiming not to understand my origional stance to begin with.

I have no idea how your read on me has any relevance but

What I mean is that there has been quite a scene created over me thinking he's scum. It could work both ways. I've been in games where the mafia threw one of their own under the bus so they looked town. It's actually part of my reasoning for thinking him scum. But if he flips town then this scene stays in everyone's mind as well.

Part of your reason for thinking him scum is that you've seen scum try to lynch their team mates before.

He was trying to lynch you.

Do you understand why I might find this unintelligible?

If you honestly don't then we clearly have some sort of communication barrier we'll have to work around; I'll drop this line and watch you do your thing re the game without further distraction.

DPR · April 18, 2017

Re: Darthe, there was some discussion in the Fight Club mafia QT D1 about pulling a hard bus gambit, and he steered his teammates away from it because there were several players he knew wouldn't clear them for it. And a decent amount of town/town violence was due to the fact that I was willing to believe that he actually did it.

It did occur to me that since he just put that out there last game, he might be willing to do a complete 180 on it this game, because Darthe. I wouldn't put it past him, but I learned my lesson enough not to use that as a primary reason to suspect someone either.

*mutters something about going #FullDarthe*

Yeah but Niniel though.

I don't know, I'm speaking from very limited experience, I just know that in World's End when our team was setting records for losing fast I proposed a last ditch hard bus gambit and she went pale in the face. Maybe that was more situational than I'm thinking but my suspicion is if someone suggested a bus gambit in QT her response would be absolutely not.

That being said I wouldn't consider anything here a 'hard bus' if it panned out w/w.

Irony: this post being the first one i read after I just posted.

Songstress · April 18, 2017

Yeah, no.

Love ya, Wes, but Cory is town.

monstrman · April 18, 2017

tigraine we obviously will never understand each other if you are a villager

I've tried

I've tried so hard to reach out to you and you barely even acknowledge it outside of saying I'm getting my panties in a bunch over it

yes i am getting my panties in a bunch i think you are a wolf and i am utilizing everything in my power to get you deaded

i've considered that I could be wrong and you are a villager but you keep missing my key points and dismissing it as "no that was just the misunderstanding"

we are well past that

Your key points are null and void. You say I'm going after you hard and I'm not. I am defending my origional suspicions and my answering of a question. You are the one that voted me and you are the one that has kept this going by continually questioning what I have answered time and again. If you would go back and read it you would see that. So no I guess we won't ever understand each other.

please point to me where i said "tigraine is going after me hard

ill wait

Sooh · April 18, 2017

Final Vote Count

Niniel (7): Ed, Darthe, SoJames, Shadory, Seph, Tress, Clov

Darthe (3): DPR, Niniel, Kronos

Tigraine (1): Manbat

Not Voting (2): Tigraine, Killashandra

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

THAT'S A LYNCH!

Deadline set for Monday April 17th at 8pm MST

So, if we're not thinking hard bus, which basically to me means someone pushing hard for her lynch. It is possible that someone like Ed or Darthe just voted her because they didn't see her getting lynched, and then didn't find a good reason to unvote when the train picked up speed. Not sure how viable it is here though. Last couple of votes could be bus votes, so I'm not ruling that out.

Darthe · April 18, 2017

Manbat youre prob just right on tig, thats the easier and better solution.

monstrman · April 18, 2017

not voting: tigraine

Shad_ · April 18, 2017

yo DPR we should avatar swap

Darthe · April 18, 2017

Final Vote Count

Niniel (7): Ed, Darthe, SoJames, Shadory, Seph, Tress, Clov

Darthe (3): DPR, Niniel, Kronos

Tigraine (1): Manbat

Not Voting (2): Tigraine, Killashandra

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

THAT'S A LYNCH!

Deadline set for Monday April 17th at 8pm MST

So, if we're not thinking hard bus, which basically to me means someone pushing hard for her lynch. It is possible that someone like Ed or Darthe just voted her because they didn't see her getting lynched, and then didn't find a good reason to unvote when the train picked up speed. Not sure how viable it is here though. Last couple of votes could be bus votes, so I'm not ruling that out.

The circumstance does help clear me though. Thats my only vote in this game and I left it on a teammate even when I was calling wbk a wolf and had a good spot to switch and he was lead train? Unless we are both wolves its a tough sell, usually.

Tigraine · April 18, 2017

Shad, I'm not sure what you are referring to when my read on you is town. The point I was making about mafia voting mafia was in reference to my origional reasoning which I will say again, was because I have had to keep repeating that reasoning because some people are claiming not to understand my origional stance to begin with.

I have no idea how your read on me has any relevance but

What I mean is that there has been quite a scene created over me thinking he's scum. It could work both ways. I've been in games where the mafia threw one of their own under the bus so they looked town. It's actually part of my reasoning for thinking him scum. But if he flips town then this scene stays in everyone's mind as well.

Part of your reason for thinking him scum is that you've seen scum try to lynch their team mates before.

He was trying to lynch you.

Do you understand why I might find this unintelligible?

If you honestly don't then we clearly have some sort of communication barrier we'll have to work around; I'll drop this line and watch you do your thing re the game without further distraction.

The first part you are right on, I went back and read your post and realized I had misread the first sentence of the last paragraph so my response on that was unnecessary.

As for Manbat, I was referring to way back at the beginning of the game when him and a few others had a back and forth banter and I was explaining that I had seen mafia do that.

All this time I have explained that point. By now, that point is completely irrelevant I guess but it was always in reference to the beginning of the game. I stated that opinion, then have spent the rest of the game trying to explain how that could even be a fathomable conclusion. I guess my thinking people still do that is crazy because no one seems to understand how I thought that suspicious.

Shad_ · April 18, 2017

As for Manbat, I was referring to way back at the beginning of the game when him and a few others had a back and forth banter and I was explaining that I had seen mafia do that.

Oh.

I get it now sorry for asking a dozen times lol

[Basic C9++] Murder Mystery Mafia D5

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