Creator

[DojoToad]

Was the Creator ever personified in the series? Rand was kind of his avatar at the end, but the DO had a lot more screen time through the series if mostly indirectly.

[wotfan4472]

Hmmm......... I take it no one wants to open that can of worms again.........

[DojoToad]

If there is a previous thread, can someone provide the link? I'm terrible at searching. Thanks

[Sabio]

The closest I think the creator was to being personified was the loud voice Rand heard in the first book.  Which many took to be the creator.  But for the most part he is hands off.  Most people speak of the pattern, walking in the light and such, but seem to rarely speak of the creator since he seems to mostly sit back and watch.

[Eldrick312379]

The Creator was the loud voice that Rand heard at the end of the first book.  They also heard the Creator at the end of A Memory of Light right as Rand was entering Shayol Ghul.  So, the Creator does appear to have some involvement, although largely stays out of it.

 

Additionally, the arguments seem pretty strong that Nakomi is some sort of avatar of the Creator/Pattern.

[Orderofolde]

I thought that Rand was the Pattern's champion to maintain the balance, because while the pattern is "good" it also allows the capacity for evil to a certain point.

[Orderofolde]

Perhaps everything is associated with the Creator that is pattern-related because the Creator created the Pattern...

[Sabio]

The pattern isn't considered good or bad. 

[LapisPharaoh]

I think the Pattern in itself is neutral, which leads me to believe both the Creator and the Dark One are imprisoned in the Pattern as two weights on a balance in order to maintain the Order of Reality.

[jack of shadows]

the pattern,by definition,is a corrective mechanism,what we perceive as good

or bad or even neutral is meaninless to a machine,the creator,created the pattern

as the ultimate safeguard to redress imbalances not to help humans in their hour

of need-that is rand's job.

the bore was an abnormality and didn't belong in randland so the pattern had it sealed,

the fact that sealing the bore killed half the people in randland,required two attempts

and took 3000 years was of no consequence to the pattern because as bad as what 

lews therin did,the other options were even worse,let me elaborate:

 

option 1-leave the bore open,,the dark one influence is growing exponentially,

results:randland is kaput.

 

option 2-lews therin and latra posae work in tandem using the choedan kal,instead of 

creating a barrier around the bore,they destroy the world,results:randland is kaput.

 

option 3-lews therin and latra posae work in tandem using the seals,tainting the two

halves of the one power,results:randland is kaput.

 

option 4-latra posae works with female channelers using the female choedan kal,see 

option 2,results:randland is kaput.

 

option 5-lews therin works with male channelers using the seals,results:we all know the

results,but what we perceive as an unmitigated catastrophe,was in fact,the lesser of five evils.

[DojoToad]

Option 6 - latra posae and female channelers use the seals??

[Sabio]

Option 6 - latra posae and female channelers use the seals??

 

Wouldn't of been an option since that would mean the men stayed behind.  LTT was doing this no matter what.

 

The attempt was doomed to fail but had to be done. 

It was never going to work for a few main reasons. 

 

1. No one really had any idea of what they were doing.

2. Even had the women gone they still had no access to the TP

3.  Callandor wasn't available.

 

The attempt was destined to fail, it was the failure and LTT's memories that helped Rand know how to succeed.  I really wish it was put in the books how Rand discovered the TP thing.  Unless it was written down it sort of seems like Rand maybe used the TP on it once.

[jack of shadows]

@sabio,

"i really wish it was put in the books how rand discovered the op thing".

did you mean to write tp?

[Sabio]

There fixed.

[wotfan4472]

Plus, LTT made the seals himself. Latra would have had to make them instead.

[Sabio]

Pretty much the pattern screwed LTT over big time.

[jack of shadows]

how?

[Sabio]

He had no chance for success.  LTT was never going to seal the bore, he pretty much was destined to fail and set in motion the taint, kill his family, etc.....

[JamesBrown]

If Time is a Wheel, does that mean that Lews Therin Telamon was also the Dragon Reborn?

[jack of shadows]

this is an incredibly profound question,*shaking the head in bewilderment*,

so,what do you think?is there a connection between the dragon and the

dragon reborn?i wonder,what would narg the trolloc say about this.

[wotfan4472]

Yes LTT is, since we know that Rand gained insight to many more lives beyond LTT himself after his epiphany. All his soul doing the stuff that was needed to be done

[Scarboro]

i wonder,what would narg the trolloc say about this.

 

Naaarg...

 

[TheSociopath]

If there is a previous thread, can someone provide the link? I'm terrible at searching. Thanks

There is this one, 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/100205-the-creator-and-the-one-power/

 

I believe there is also some discussion about the creator/DO in this one, though it is probably well hidden in the 5 pages.

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/79052-padan-fain-full-spoilers/

[jsbrads]

Since the OP was used to create the world/universe, that means that there is a superstructure outside the world/universe where an alien created the world/universe from.

OP is everywhere and outside the universe.

The superstructure can be where the pattern operates from, and DO and Creator are just two aliens that are limited by the superpattern.