[Advanced] Old West Mischief Mafia - Town Wins!

[Tiinker]

 

@DPR the two problems that I have with your scenario are

 

1, the initial train was largely there because of Cuth, Seph and Eldrick - your analysis requires them to initially not care about bussing them, then decide that they need to save a hypothetical town role. That doesn't reconcile well to a single point of view

 

2, I don't think I've ever seen a mafia team link themselves that closely together. I also know that Liz (at the least) values strong individual play over a power role, by which I mean I don't see her ever allowing her team to out themselves to protect her for the sake of a role.

 

1. The initial train was there because of post #309 and the strong reaction that players had to it. Cuth pulled off the train and told Seph and Eldrick to do the same, slowing it down. But, it picked up steam again and liz/clov very well might have gone to lynch. The key to D1, though, is NB's unexplained move to tie his own vote train to liz/clov. This hurt him and helped them - it was an obvious move that a player of NB's experience would have been fully aware that he was making. 

 

That point alone is enough to put liz/clov in the spotlight. The other posts and reasons that they, time after time, wound up as the leading train points a giant, blinking finger right at them.

 

If anyone had an argument aside from - nah, it's too easy. Can't be - I'd be happy to hear it. But they don't They don't have a way to explain what NB did and no one has argued that it did not benefit liz/clov.

 

Then, to factor in how choreographed their communication with Eldrick was, and the terrible logic they were pushing...  Man, I don't know how anyone doesn't want their slot sorted.

 

2. Unless you know the setup, you don't know shite, now do you? Phrases like "I don't think I've ever seen" can go right in the bin. Then trying to explain how you know what liz's values are just wasting everybody's time.

 

Look at what has happened and put together a situation that fits that. 

 

 

I think that Eldrick and NBs move can be better explained as them being thrown off by Seph's vote. Liz train wasn't going anywhere after those pull-offs and they'd resorted to busing the shit out each other looking for equity in the next days. Eldrick bussed NB thinking Liz was toast and once Seph pulled off, Eldrick was the only viable one for NB. I imagine their QT is pretty wtf.

[DPR]

 

 

@DPR the two problems that I have with your scenario are

 

1, the initial train was largely there because of Cuth, Seph and Eldrick - your analysis requires them to initially not care about bussing them, then decide that they need to save a hypothetical town role. That doesn't reconcile well to a single point of view

 

2, I don't think I've ever seen a mafia team link themselves that closely together. I also know that Liz (at the least) values strong individual play over a power role, by which I mean I don't see her ever allowing her team to out themselves to protect her for the sake of a role.

 

1. The initial train was there because of post #309 and the strong reaction that players had to it. Cuth pulled off the train and told Seph and Eldrick to do the same, slowing it down. But, it picked up steam again and liz/clov very well might have gone to lynch. The key to D1, though, is NB's unexplained move to tie his own vote train to liz/clov. This hurt him and helped them - it was an obvious move that a player of NB's experience would have been fully aware that he was making. 

 

That point alone is enough to put liz/clov in the spotlight. The other posts and reasons that they, time after time, wound up as the leading train points a giant, blinking finger right at them.

 

If anyone had an argument aside from - nah, it's too easy. Can't be - I'd be happy to hear it. But they don't They don't have a way to explain what NB did and no one has argued that it did not benefit liz/clov.

 

Then, to factor in how choreographed their communication with Eldrick was, and the terrible logic they were pushing...  Man, I don't know how anyone doesn't want their slot sorted.

 

2. Unless you know the setup, you don't know shite, now do you? Phrases like "I don't think I've ever seen" can go right in the bin. Then trying to explain how you know what liz's values are just wasting everybody's time.

 

Look at what has happened and put together a situation that fits that. 

 

 

I think that Eldrick and NBs move can be better explained as them being thrown off by Seph's vote. Liz train wasn't going anywhere after those pull-offs and they'd resorted to busing the shit out each other looking for equity in the next days. Eldrick bussed NB thinking Liz was toast and once Seph pulled off, Eldrick was the only viable one for NB. I imagine their QT is pretty wtf.

 

 

 

Sounds like you have Seph mixed in with them. Am I reading that right?

[BFG]

 

@DPR the two problems that I have with your scenario are

 

1, the initial train was largely there because of Cuth, Seph and Eldrick - your analysis requires them to initially not care about bussing them, then decide that they need to save a hypothetical town role. That doesn't reconcile well to a single point of view

 

2, I don't think I've ever seen a mafia team link themselves that closely together. I also know that Liz (at the least) values strong individual play over a power role, by which I mean I don't see her ever allowing her team to out themselves to protect her for the sake of a role.

 

1. The initial train was there because of post #309 and the strong reaction that players had to it. Cuth pulled off the train and told Seph and Eldrick to do the same, slowing it down. But, it picked up steam again and liz/clov very well might have gone to lynch. The key to D1, though, is NB's unexplained move to tie his own vote train to liz/clov. This hurt him and helped them - it was an obvious move that a player of NB's experience would have been fully aware that he was making. 

 

That point alone is enough to put liz/clov in the spotlight. The other posts and reasons that they, time after time, wound up as the leading train points a giant, blinking finger right at them.

 

If anyone had an argument aside from - nah, it's too easy. Can't be - I'd be happy to hear it. But they don't They don't have a way to explain what NB did and no one has argued that it did not benefit liz/clov.

 

Then, to factor in how choreographed their communication with Eldrick was, and the terrible logic they were pushing...  Man, I don't know how anyone doesn't want their slot sorted.

 

2. Unless you know the setup, you don't know shite, now do you? Phrases like "I don't think I've ever seen" can go right in the bin. Then trying to explain how you know what liz's values are just wasting everybody's time.

 

Look at what has happened and put together a situation that fits that.

 

 

I pretty much accept that we're going to disagree about this point.

 

But I'll play

 

NB unvoted possible town hydra because

 

...He thought that people would think that 'no self ores mode, probably town' and unvote him

...If NB is lynched it ties the hydra to him so he tales a town pair with him

...If the hydra pair are lynched then it looks good for NB

...Because he wanted to distance from Eldrick

...etc

 

Or he unvoted because they are a mafia power role

 

I have no reason from this alone to assume one alignment over the other and I don't view NBs unvote as particularly indicative.

 

 

1. No, the initial train was Dice, Darthe, Cuth, Seph, Eldrick and it formed before post 309. Again without Cuth, Eldrick, Seph it wouldn't be a train in the first place that they'd need to pull people off. The rest is your interpretation. You think NB is an experienced player who purposefully makes a move that messes up him and his teammate, I'm going to view it as WIFOM and go from there.

 

2. Probably not going to ignore previous games cos you don't think it's relevant

 

And this conversation isn't going to go anywhere. I'll read your original points against them some time over the weekend (hopefully) and will go from there

[BFG]

Is it possible that this is the first mafia team I've seen tie themselves thoroughly together Day 1, yes, of course, but that doesn't mean it's the most likely explanation

 

Eh, dropping it till I've finished reading through

[DPR]

 

 

@DPR the two problems that I have with your scenario are

 

1, the initial train was largely there because of Cuth, Seph and Eldrick - your analysis requires them to initially not care about bussing them, then decide that they need to save a hypothetical town role. That doesn't reconcile well to a single point of view

 

2, I don't think I've ever seen a mafia team link themselves that closely together. I also know that Liz (at the least) values strong individual play over a power role, by which I mean I don't see her ever allowing her team to out themselves to protect her for the sake of a role.

 

1. The initial train was there because of post #309 and the strong reaction that players had to it. Cuth pulled off the train and told Seph and Eldrick to do the same, slowing it down. But, it picked up steam again and liz/clov very well might have gone to lynch. The key to D1, though, is NB's unexplained move to tie his own vote train to liz/clov. This hurt him and helped them - it was an obvious move that a player of NB's experience would have been fully aware that he was making. 

 

That point alone is enough to put liz/clov in the spotlight. The other posts and reasons that they, time after time, wound up as the leading train points a giant, blinking finger right at them.

 

If anyone had an argument aside from - nah, it's too easy. Can't be - I'd be happy to hear it. But they don't They don't have a way to explain what NB did and no one has argued that it did not benefit liz/clov.

 

Then, to factor in how choreographed their communication with Eldrick was, and the terrible logic they were pushing...  Man, I don't know how anyone doesn't want their slot sorted.

 

2. Unless you know the setup, you don't know shite, now do you? Phrases like "I don't think I've ever seen" can go right in the bin. Then trying to explain how you know what liz's values are just wasting everybody's time.

 

Look at what has happened and put together a situation that fits that.

 

 

I pretty much accept that we're going to disagree about this point.

 

But I'll play

 

NB unvoted possible town hydra because

 

...He thought that people would think that 'no self ores mode, probably town' and unvote him

...If NB is lynched it ties the hydra to him so he tales a town pair with him

...If the hydra pair are lynched then it looks good for NB

...Because he wanted to distance from Eldrick

...etc

 

Or he unvoted because they are a mafia power role

 

I have no reason from this alone to assume one alignment over the other and I don't view NBs unvote as particularly indicative.

 

 

1. No, the initial train was Dice, Darthe, Cuth, Seph, Eldrick and it formed before post 309. Again without Cuth, Eldrick, Seph it wouldn't be a train in the first place that they'd need to pull people off. The rest is your interpretation. You think NB is an experienced player who purposefully makes a move that messes up him and his teammate, I'm going to view it as WIFOM and go from there.

 

2. Probably not going to ignore previous games cos you don't think it's relevant

 

And this conversation isn't going to go anywhere. I'll read your original points against them some time over the weekend (hopefully) and will go from there

 

 

 

Fair enough.

 

You're going to vote with your friends and choose to ignore a mafia goon that moved his vote to get himself lynched. 

 

No point is beating a dead horse.

[BFG]

And you're going to continue ignoring that your case (in as much as when and why the initial train formed) is wrong and continue to push post 309 as the source of everything?

 

And I don't throw games to 'vote with my friends'. I just don't think NBs vote is as telling as you seem to

[Darthe]

 

 

Remember early on D1 when the liz/clov train was picking up speed, and then Cuth & Seph derailed it (with help from Eldrick)?

 

Well, this is what happened to that - it built right back up and had plenty of steam to attract more votes:

 

Also, liz/clov, notbob, cuth, seph, eldrick... Five names, four wolves max.

 

You should recognize that this can't work as a wolf ploy since they can't all be wolves.

Do you think there are 12 town and 4 wolves???? what about a 3p.....and I also think you should look at dice as well...jmo

Yeah, thats entirely possible, and would be 25%

[DPR]

And you're going to continue ignoring that your case (in as much as when and why the initial train formed) is wrong and continue to push post 309 as the source of everything?

 

And I don't throw games to 'vote with my friends'. I just don't think NBs vote is as telling as you seem to

 

 

 I think I've been pretty clear about  the mystery of D1 being "why does a mafia goon sacrifice himself?"

 

My case has very little to do with pre or post #309 other than that it was just a very scum thing to say. There are a lots of other examples of their scum play.

 

You do whatever you want. I was asked and I answered. You think it's normal for a goon to hang himself, that's on you.

[Kaylee]

Night everyone! I'll check in before heading off tomorrow. You're in good hands, Tress has warm gentle hands.

[seph]

Group of players from where you all play.... lol just stop dude.

I have played 3 games with liz. And yes all of your recent case on liz has just been speculation.

 

I am done with you trying to compare your epeen with mine in this game. Thanks for the laughs though.

 

I literally have to stop responding to dpr this game.

Dpr all.im doing is defending a town read as I would in any game, if your right with what you think as I said congrats. Stop making this game about a measuring contest and ooh I'm not from here so everyone is against me. It's not the case.

 

I want to focus more and help win this for the town. I want you to play more on dm because your a active player and fun to play with even if we have our major differences this game.

[BFG]

 

And you're going to continue ignoring that your case (in as much as when and why the initial train formed) is wrong and continue to push post 309 as the source of everything?

 

And I don't throw games to 'vote with my friends'. I just don't think NBs vote is as telling as you seem to

 

 

 I think I've been pretty clear about  the mystery of D1 being "why does a mafia goon sacrifice himself?"

 

My case has very little to do with pre or post #309 other than that it was just a very scum thing to say. There are a lots of other examples of their scum play.

 

You do whatever you want. I was asked and I answered. You think it's normal for a goon to hang himself, that's on you.

 

Apologies the 309 bit was facetious, I know there's more to your thoughts on the hydra than that (and the unvote)

[BFG]

 

And you're going to continue ignoring that your case (in as much as when and why the initial train formed) is wrong and continue to push post 309 as the source of everything?

 

And I don't throw games to 'vote with my friends'. I just don't think NBs vote is as telling as you seem to

 

 

 I think I've been pretty clear about  the mystery of D1 being "why does a mafia goon sacrifice himself?"

 

My case has very little to do with pre or post #309 other than that it was just a very scum thing to say. There are a lots of other examples of their scum play.

 

You do whatever you want. I was asked and I answered. You think it's normal for a goon to hang himself, that's on you.

 

Apologies the 309 bit was facetious, I know there's more to your thoughts on the hydra than that (and the unvote)

[The Crusher]

Anyone have cliff notes?

Just for reference. Finally starting my BFG catch up. Yesterday I was too busy getting scolded because my son's girlfriend's 57 year old father had a heart attack. So any day now my diet and lifestyle will changing drastically. Mrs Crusher is on the warpath.

[The Crusher]

Lol the hotel receptionist thinks I'm the sort of person that eats pizza with a knife and fork

Ok Im done. BFG is fine with me.

[The Crusher]

Ok fair,

 

I think I dislike the VC

 

I would guess quite strongly that Eldrick is town, Liz/Mrs Clov are probably town and I'm null on Darthe (yes I saw Liz's points on Darthe, and the strong scum to minor scum read argument has merit. Not so sure by the evolving read on Liz/Mrs Clov, I just have no context for that) but I have no idea if he responded yet)

 

I also say that and would guess that I've read barely a tenth of Eldricks or Liz/Mrs Clov posts

Interesting start. Want to see how this evolves.

[DPR]

Group of players from where you all play.... lol just stop dude.

I have played 3 games with liz. And yes all of your recent case on liz has just been speculation.

 

I am done with you trying to compare your epeen with mine in this game. Thanks for the laughs though.

 

I literally have to stop responding to dpr this game.

Dpr all.im doing is defending a town read as I would in any game, if your right with what you think as I said congrats. Stop making this game about a measuring contest and ooh I'm not from here so everyone is against me. It's not the case.

 

I want to focus more and help win this for the town. I want you to play more on dm because your a active player and fun to play with even if we have our major differences this game.

 

 

Bear with me for a moment - when I talk about the other boards where y'all play, I should really describe it as a different style. The where doesn't matter so much as the how.

 

What I've noticed is that the current gen plays by clearing townies vs. the previous gen that plays by looking for scum. These are opposite techniques and are going to lead to differences of opinions. Personally, I don't see the point in clearing town as it's too easy to fake. Eldrick is a great example of that - he wasn't right from the start.

 

There are other differences as well. The current gen likes to jump into D1 and act sassy, but starts to cry if everyone doesn't clap. And I'm not trying to be mean here, I'm just saying that I've seen some passive aggressive sh*t and it's a chore to have to filter all the time when what needs to be said is "that's the stoopidest sh*t I've ever heard. Get your water tested for lead, because... damn."

 

I don't get why people don't sweat each other. I see someone playing dirty and I call them on it. If they can explain it, great. If not, they get an escort to the gallows.

 

Also, all references to past games and meta seem completely antiproductive to me. All of that is assuming that players don't learn, evolve, and pick up new tricks when we all know that they do. All that discussion does is wifom the thread to death. Right about now, if we got rid of all the fluff, our thread would be about 25 to 30 pages. 

 

Anyway, everyone gets a vote and that's how the game goes. I don't get all the measuring contest references. Y'all want to see that, come play at JN.

 

Now, back to the game, there is a block of players (You, Cuth, Liz/Clov, Darthe, and it looks like Tink and BFG) that seem to understand the same town clearing technique. I'm not saying it's everybody against me - that's ridiculous. I'm saying that when you are playing a liars game, better to assume people are lying, so maybe a different pov can be helpful.

 

Cheers to everybody that is active. i couldn't agree with that more. 

[The Crusher]

Cuth

Eldrick

Seph

Liz

WiFi

 

DPR*

Cass*

 

Kronos

Hallia

Crusher

 

Tinker?

 

Darthe?

 

Dice

 

Roughly ordered

 

I don't have many reasons beyond 'gut' 'vibe' 'feels' which I sort of hate, but /YOLO

Its a very early one and again want to see how it evolves.

[DPR]

 

Anyone have cliff notes?

Just for reference. Finally starting my BFG catch up. Yesterday I was too busy getting scolded because my son's girlfriend's 57 year old father had a heart attack. So any day now my diet and lifestyle will changing drastically. Mrs Crusher is on the warpath.

 

 

 

You have my deepest sympathies. Let's try to figure out how to get the wives into some sort of support group, and then we can go eat and drink.

[The Crusher]

Crusher, I'm wondering what your thoughts are on BFG at this point.

 

And since BFG is now here to follow up and you don't seem to like answering my questions, I'm also wondering about your current thoughts on Dice, Darthe, and Tinker.

 

(sorry if you already answered this upthread, but I don't think I'm going to get around to reading it all tonight)

Im working on it Sparky.

[Lizabeth]

Okay, so I'm going to confess that I'm not caught up with the thread at all right now other than updates that I've been getting from MrsClov. I'm still really exhausted and I don't think I'll be able to catch up on most of it all, but I've been tossing around thoughts with MrsClov and will join the thread when I can. (I'm sure some of you are relieved -- I didn't realize I had as high a post-count as I did until MrsClov showed me, which yikes! I'm sorry. But just be grateful I'm can't post as fast as Zander :P <3) Anyway, I'm sorry I'm just popping in, not caught up on everything, and not sure where exactly everyone is right now, but I will hang around for a while and try to give my input and answer questions where i can. I was supposed to be away this weekend, but plans have changed so I'll be around to at least check in with MrsClov.

This is going to be somewhat of a stream of consciousness kind of post, but I'll try to organize it as much as possible before posting.

First off, re;Darthe - Darthe, MrsClov told me that she made piece with you on our behalf. I appreciate your apology and I offer mine in return. Obviously we have a way of triggering each other. Please understand that I was trying to figure out whether your "triggered" response was genuine or if you were just avoiding me. I managed to get to the place where I thought it was genuine on D1, but when you wouldn't deal with what I thought should be a simple issue to deal with on N1 and D2 if you were town, it convinced me that you had to be scum. But anyway, I'm glad we're moving on and if I'm triggered by you in the future I'll try to find a different way of dealing with it to try to make the whole spiral of triggering thing less likely to occur.

Secondly, BFG - I know you have questions about why we (MrsClov and I) were so excited about you entering the thread. I know MrsClov already explained some of it, but I feel like explaining a bit from my perspective and quite frankly in part to try to bridge some of the gap in game culture that I think has frustrated me/MrsClov (and made other people frustrated with us) over the course of the game. I feel like we speak the same language when it comes to mafia, and for most of this game it felt as though MrsClov and I were in a foreign country where they spoke a different dialect from ours. Topics that we thought should be straightforward to discuss and resolve were taking forever to process an without coming any closer to a common understanding in some cases. So when I heard that you were subbing into the game my first thought was "pleaseletherbetownpleaseletherbetownpleaseletherbetown". Spoot was in my POE scumpool only because of inactivity, but based on where my head was at at that point in the game, I figured that he was pretty low on that list. And when I saw your posts and felt your energy, I was pretty convinced that you were town. And when I saw you picking up on similar threads and issues to what MrsClov and I had been talking about, it reinforced for me that finally there was someone in the game that spoke the same language!

And basically (this is the part where I'm using you, I hope you don't mind) when I was talking earlier about how I felt like my definition of scumhunting was very different from the definition that others were currently using, the way BFG entered the game is basically the emobdiment of what I think of when I think of what scumhunting looks like: questioning a broad range of people and issues, looking at multiple angles, exploring potential misunderstandings. So when people were saying that certain people were scumhunting, and i was saying "what are you talking about?" - BFG is basically the prime example of what I'm talking about.

Please note: I'm not trying to say that everyone else is doing it wrong. What I'm trying to say is that it feels like there's a different culture for how to do it. I understand BFGs way quite clearly.

I actually have some understanding of Darthe's way, which is not really that dissimilar to mine underneath the surface. Like, I don't mind being tested or used as lynchbait - I use that as a strategy with other players frequently myself. But what I do try to do is give the other person something back to read me from, especially once I've determined that I think they're town. And I think I got super frustrated with Darthe because I felt like he wasn't doing that for me and MrsClov, and the only way I know how to get something out of a player like that is to push them to the point that they react and engage in a way that let's me read them for whether I think they're being genuine or not.

On D1 I got there with both Darthe and DPR, where I begrudgingly gave them town reads (even though they were still pissing me off at the time :P). MrsClov and I have been basically going back to ground 0 with all of our reads. Right now we're basically back to my original D1 read that both of them are most likely town. Even though I think DPR is looping, from what MrsClov has described I think it's a genuine loop. And unless he's SUPER committed as scum, I can't imagine him persisting with his elaborate theory the way he's doing if he didn't believe it.

I'll give some other thoughts in my next post.

[Wildfire Sedai]

Thank you all for not blowing up the thread last night.  

 

Liz keep it coming....

[Darthe]

Bfg might be a wolf this round.

[Wildfire Sedai]

 

 

Wifi, If you had been reading the thread you would know that Liz and I said we were completely redoing our reads because we were highly reading Eldrick as town. That is why everyone is Null at the moment, and half the game is left off the list.  We are reevaluating everything. 

 

 

I read it.  I just wanted confirmation of your commitment and reading why.  However, you didn't say WHY you chose the ones you did.  I guessed, but is that correct??? and if so why is dpr on it???

[Lizabeth]

These are some of my reflections on Crusher, Cuth, and SEph, keeping in mind that this is going back to D1 in reset mode, not based on anything current in the thread. Please note that these are impressions that MrsClov and I want to follow up on, not conclusions.

Crusher - As you might be able to tell, I tend to be triggered by the way that Crusher, DPR, and Darthe sometimes talk to people. It would trigger me whether it was directed towards me or someone else, but a lot of it has been directed specifically towards me and MrsClov this game. Which is why I had to try to go through and read each of them keeping my annoyance on one side and my analysis of whether I thought they were being genuine in their thoughts on the other.

As I said before, I got to the "genuine" conclusion with Darthe and DPR at some point on D1. I've never quite gotten there with Crusher, even though he's now engaged with me quite a bit. So I've basically been trying to reflect on why he still bothers me (from a game point of view, not a personal feelings point of view). Darthe, DPR, and Crusher have all used a similar style this game at different points in terms of making general commentary about things, responding to our posts making general statements (like "that's so wolfy" "that's nonsense" or "you're always twisting things"), and not answering our questions. I've pointed that out a number of times. I think the difference between them and Crusher is that I did feel like they eventually responded in ways that made me feel like I had more specifics about what they were reacting to and made me feel like they genuinely believed what they were saying, even if I didn't agree with it.

With Crusher I've never really gotten there. And it keeps bringing me back to my last game here where Sooh was scum and I felt like she approached me in a very similar way - except that I was fooled for a bit along the way because her explanations to me of why she was doing it felt genuine, and it was only because of some things that Cory said that made me look at her again from a different angle. But with Crusher, I haven't quite gotten to the place of feeling as though he's being genuine. I've repeatedly asked him to give specific examples of the things he keeps accusing me of - such as twisting people's words and making things up. If he has, I guess I'll see it when I iso him. But neither MrsClov nor I is feeling very good about Crusher at the moment. (/inb4 he claims I'm just saying this because he's been suspecting us ;) - as I've tried to explain in my previous ramble, I don't read people as scummy or townie based on whether or not they suspect me. If you will recall, Darthe was claiming we were town at the start of D2 and I still went after him with a vengeance because I thought he was just avoiding dealing with my questions about his motivations for switching to NB. It's HOW the person suspects or clears me that I'm concerned about, not whether they suspect or clear me)

******

With seph - agh, Seph! I want to believe in Seph. I think MrsClov and I mostly do believe in Seph. The only thing that I was thinking when resetting back to D1, knowing what we now know about NotBob and Eldrick and that there was bussing going on on D1, is that people kept pointing to little concerns about Seph's process in moving from suspecting us, to defending us, to voting NB but not voting for Eldrick who he had said that he would vote for. At the time I noted it and tried to look at it from that angle but concluded that Seph must have seen what we were seeing, with Eldrick being CLEARLY coming from a town motivation ( at myself) and NB being the scummier of the two. But now looking back I'm realizing that I also dismissed a lot of things that people were pinging on about Eldrick, so I feel like we have to revisit that. If this hasn't been answered already Seph, why didn't you try to join the Eldrick train at that time given that you kept saying you'd rather lynch Eldrick?

Other little pings about Seph were that he kept saying he was going to iso people but then came back with just general statements and no actual posts or nothing at all. I'm a lazy isoer myself, so I get the not wanting to do a full iso post, but I usually throw in at least a few examples to illustrate what I'm saying. I'm not sure if it's typical for Seph to just give general statements, so maybe someone who has played with him before can clear that up.

But Seph's elation at NB flipping scum seemed genuine to me. Not sure if he can fake that because I've never seen him play as scum. But tone wise, it seemed genuine. I have to go back and find where Kronos first made his claim and busted Eldrick to see what I think of his reaction (and other people's reactions) to that reveal.

*****

Cuth - again we felt like we have to go back to the beginning and consider things in light of what we know now about Eldrick and the bussing and buddying. So we've been tossing back and forth the possibility that Cuth saw and opportunity to score town cred by moving off our wagon and then defending us and securing a lynch on NB. Because why would anybody suspect him after that? If Eldrick hadn't flipped red, I would never even question this. But Eldrick flipping red makes me question everything. And I thought it odd at the time (I had misremembered it on d1 until someone pointed it out to me), that Cuth asked Seph to get off of our train once he decided to unvote us. But he didn't ask Eldrick. Eldrick left our train on his own.

And then his response after NB's flip was "we got lucky". Which struck me as odd at the time, because I would assume that he would have picked the person he thought was scummiest to start a train on, not just roll the dice. So why would he put it down to luck rather than skill? (In contrast,Sephs' response to him struck me as very elated townie.)

And then after having such a successful d1, he wasn't really present for N1 or much of D2 (although there is a big chunk of the thread that I haven't read from D2, so someone please correct me if I'm wrong).

I think MrsClov has posted some other things that we're also exploring. But that's where I'm at right now and she's currently sleeping (I think).

[Wildfire Sedai]

Bfg might be a wolf this round.

 

I am thinking that but haven't got anything to pin on her yet.  so waiting.