Eliada and the Royal house of Andor

[Alric]

Also in tSR prologue:

 

Whatever Siuan was up to, she had to be stopped. Turmoil and chaos multiplied on every side. The Dark One was sure to break free - the very thought made Elaida shiver and wrap her shawl around her more tightly - and the Tower had to be aloof from mundane struggles to face that. The Tower had to be free to pull the strings to make the nations stand together, free of the troubles Rand al’Thor would bring. Somehow, he had to be stopped from destroying Andor.

 

She had told no one what she knew of al’Thor. She meant to deal with him quietly, if possible. The Hall of the Tower already spoke of watching, even guiding, these ta’veren; they would never agree to dispose of them, of the one in particular, as he must be disposed of. For the good of the Tower. For the good of the world.

And about Elayne:

 

Apart from everything else, it infuriated her that she could not find Elayne. Elaida had the Foretelling sometimes, the ability to foresee future events. If it came seldom and faintly, that was still more than any Aes Sedai had had since Gitara Moroso, dead now twenty years. The very first thing Elaida had ever Foretold, while still an Accepted - and had known enough even then to keep to herself - was that the Royal line of Andor would be the key to defeating the Dark One in the Last Battle. She had attached herself to Morgase as soon as it was clear Morgase would succeed to the throne, had built her influence year by patient year. And now all her effort, all her sacrifice - she might have been Amyrlin herself had she not concentrated all her energies on Andor - might be for naught because Elayne had disappeared.

[David Selig]

But Elaida didn't know Rand was the dragon Reborn back then - that's made clear a bit later in the same prologue:

Abruptly Elaida stopped, staring at nothing. Could it be that this al’Thor could channel? Or one of the others? Most likely it would be al’Thor. No. Surely not. Not even Siuan would touch one of those. She could not.

 

Seriously considering killing the DR when you're not a Darkfriend is too stupid idea even for Elaida.

[Alric]

I got to that part just now. Yeah, although she doesn't say I have to agree she wouldn't be that stupid. But her thinking is extremely radical and dangerous for dealing with prophesies, ta'veren are there for a reason, and that reason is not to screw up the Last Battle. So killing a ta'veren who you think threatens someone that is important for the Last Battle... still a 9 on the stupid scale.

[David Selig]

Yes, certainly quite idiotic. Plus Elaida must know she can't stop her Foretellings from happening. So killing Rand with the intention to stop division in Andor after she herself Foretold such division would happen makes no sense.

[Xcorpyo001]

Apart from everything else, it infuriated her that she could not find Elayne. Elaida had the Foretelling sometimes, the ability to foresee future events. If it came seldom and faintly, that was still more than any Aes Sedai had had since Gitara Moroso, dead now twenty years. The very first thing Elaida had ever Foretold, while still an Accepted - and had known enough even then to keep to herself - was that the Royal line of Andor would be the key to defeating the Dark One in the Last Battle. She had attached herself to Morgase as soon as it was clear Morgase would succeed to the throne, had built her influence year by patient year. And now all her effort, all her sacrifice - she might have been Amyrlin herself had she not concentrated all her energies on Andor - might be for naught because Elayne had disappeared.

 

 

She made the Foretelling when she was still an Accepted. She was one for three years.

She could became Morgase's advisor only as an AS.

When she became one(AS), she had to wait to make sure Morgase would succeed to the throne, so she became AS quite a while after Tigraine left. Morgasse fought for the throne for several years.

It's clear that at the moment of the Foretelling, Tigraine was of the royal line and royal house, and in line to the throne.

 

 

And about Gitara's Foretelling. I understand why she sent Tigraine to the Waste, but why in the Seven Hells did she sent Luc to the Blight? There, he killed Rand's father and became the DO's no1 hitman.

And since Eliada remembered her Foretelling, why didn't Gitara remembered hers? She knew Tigraine will give birth to the DR, she knew about the Waste, but she died of shock when he was born.

And why didn't they considered for a second that the DR could be born by a woman following the Aiel, especially since Gitara sent her there? Did she just forget to mention that little tidbit of information? Did all the AS really believed all the Aiel were DF?!? Or their women couldn't have babies?!?

[Alric]

And about Gitara's Foretelling. I understand why she sent Tigraine to the Waste, but why in the Seven Hells did she sent Luc to the Blight? There, he killed Rand's father and became the DO's no1 hitman.

 

I don't have a big problem with that really, we aren't told what she saw, and there was probably a good reason. Large sacrifices have to be made, although Luc's fate is certainly horrible.

 

 

And since Eliada remembered her Foretelling, why didn't Gitara remembered hers? She knew Tigraine will give birth to the DR, she knew about the Waste, but she died of shock when he was born.

And why didn't they considered for a second that the DR could be born by a woman following the Aiel, especially since Gitara sent her there? Did she just forget to mention that little tidbit of information? Did all the AS really believed all the Aiel were DF?!? Or their women couldn't have babies?!?

 

Actually... with the BA present, keeping it secret makes sense. Would Siuan and Moiraine even have survived had more known about it?

[nolirion]

 

And why didn't they considered for a second that the DR could be born by a woman following the Aiel, especially since Gitara sent her there? Did she just forget to mention that little tidbit of information? Did all the AS really believed all the Aiel were DF?!? Or their women couldn't have babies?!?

At first they where only 3 people who knew about the foretelling , Moraine , Suan and the Amyrlin . Then the Amyrlin send those she trusted to seek the DR (they where all killed beside Cadsuane) and then only the BA knew of the foretelling . The Ba , Morain , Suan and Cadsuane (not sure about her).

[randsc]

You need to be very careful with prophesies, and being willing to kill the Dragon Reborn to protect the Daughter-Heir is just mindbogglingly stupid.

Huh? When did that happen?

 

The really stupid thing done by Elaida in regards to this Foeretelling was completely ignoring Gawyn and Galad and focusing on Elayne only, she even tried to arrange to have Gawyn suffer an "accident" and be killed.

 

Ahem. At the risk of violating the "don't be mean about Aes Sedai" rule...

 

This wasn't just stupidity. It was stupidity enabled by the institutional bias of the White Tower toward the male gender. MEN couldn't possibly be important; it must be the female that matters.

[lenardo]

if that timeline is right, her foretelling already came true

 

the royal house of Andor was the Key- at the time it was Rand's Mother who was heir.

 

elaida has the foretelling tigraine is heir- she never renounced her throne, she just disappeared (if i remember correctly) from court.

 

tigraine gets sent to the aiel waste

 

becomes a sister, meets the chief, they get involved, laman does the idiot thing with the tree, aiel get pissed and go all thieftaker on the "west", she gets pregnant during said execution, she gets injured on dragonmount during last fight, goes into labor, births rand, gitara dies when rand is born.

 

also galad -also tigraines son- becomes lord commander of the whitecloaks...

 

 

so imo elaida's foretelling came true...at rand's Birth-she just missed it.

[Xcorpyo001]

And about Gitara's Foretelling. I understand why she sent Tigraine to the Waste, but why in the Seven Hells did she sent Luc to the Blight? There, he killed Rand's father and became the DO's no1 hitman.

 

I don't have a big problem with that really, we aren't told what she saw, and there was probably a good reason. Large sacrifices have to be made, although Luc's fate is certainly horrible.

 

 

And since Eliada remembered her Foretelling, why didn't Gitara remembered hers? She knew Tigraine will give birth to the DR, she knew about the Waste, but she died of shock when he was born.

And why didn't they considered for a second that the DR could be born by a woman following the Aiel, especially since Gitara sent her there? Did she just forget to mention that little tidbit of information? Did all the AS really believed all the Aiel were DF?!? Or their women couldn't have babies?!?

 

Actually... with the BA present, keeping it secret makes sense. Would Siuan and Moiraine even have survived had more known about it?

 

 

I'm talking about Gitara not telling the Amyrlin at least about having a Foretelling concerning the mother of the Dragon, on her way to the Waste. She was pretty old, and not telling anyone could have proven to be disastrous, because from her point of view, the Dragon was supposed to be born in the Waste, from a Maiden. And they have no contacts there. The Aiel don't even know about the DR. They have their own beliefs.

 

At the time, the BA was not such a big deal.

They started to fear the BA after they killed an Amyrlin and the entire search party, except the extra two members, that were doing it without anyone's knowledge.

[David Selig]

We don't even know whether Gitara's Foretelling about Tigraine was that she would be the mother of the Dragon Reborn, it may've been more vague. IIRc Tigraine was told that if she don't go to the Waste, disaster will befall Andor and the whole world, something like that, at least that's what she told the Aiel.

[Mulk]

I tend to agree with David Selig, that the Foretelling itself, at least in this case, said nothing directly about the Dragon Reborn himself. Tigraine was told (iirc) she had to become a Maiden and could not return until the Maidens had gone to Tar Valon; that is the gist of the story told to Rand in TSR. Given that Gitara knew full well where the Dragon was to be born, it is not out of the realm of possibility that she put two and two together at some point, I just don't think it was the Foretelling itself that linked her going and the birth of the Dragon.

 

edit: also - to the point of why she didn't tell the Amyrlin, we can only speculate. My personal speculation is that whether the Black was thought to be a big deal or not, she feared they might learn of it. Or she could have had a separate Foretelling warning her not to tell anyone not directly involved, or just a strong feeling she shouldn't. However, keeping secrets is a very Aes Sedai thing to do, and I find the fact that she kept even such a valuable one to herself to be in keeping with AS character as we know and understand it, regardless of her reasons for doing so.

[Xcorpyo001]

We don't even know whether Gitara's Foretelling about Tigraine was that she would be the mother of the Dragon Reborn, it may've been more vague. IIRc Tigraine was told that if she don't go to the Waste, disaster will befall Andor and the whole world, something like that, at least that's what she told the Aiel.

 

 

I don't think she would have left her position and go there after hearing something that vague.

Since all the Daughter-Heirs went to TV to study, I think she heard about the BA and other things, just as rumors.

Only something related to TG would made her consider leaving her seat of power and her child behind.

[Mulk]

Being told by someone known to be able to foretell the future that disaster will fall on Andor and the whole world if I don't isn't reason enough? It would be for me, personally.

[DemandredFO]

I hope we find out why Luc left.

[Suttree]

We don't even know whether Gitara's Foretelling about Tigraine was that she would be the mother of the Dragon Reborn, it may've been more vague. IIRc Tigraine was told that if she don't go to the Waste, disaster will befall Andor and the whole world, something like that, at least that's what she told the Aiel.

 

 

I don't think she would have left her position and go there after hearing something that vague.

Since all the Daughter-Heirs went to TV to study, I think she heard about the BA and other things, just as rumors.

Only something related to TG would made her consider leaving her seat of power and her child behind.

 

David is correct, Gitara told Tigraine she had to go to the waste and become a maiden or the world would suffer. There was no mention of the DR.

 

Edit: Luc left because she urged him to go seek his "glory" in the blight.

[JKN-SW]

I also really hope we get an explanation to the Luc/Isam thing. It's been such a long running mystery, it just has to be an important factor in aMoL. Unless he is just there to "teach" Perrin master TAR? Having an enemy as dangerous as Slayer makes it vital to Perrin to master the wolfdream, and maybe that is the real goal?

[FarShainMael]

Quotable Quotes, for the sake of it:

 

 

TSR,Ch1 - "The very first thing Elaida had ever Foretold, while still an Accepted - and had known enough even then to keep to herself - was that the Royal line of Andor would be the key to defeating the Dark One in the Last Battle."

 

 

ACoS,Prologue - "Elaida had the Foretelling sometimes, a Talent many thought lost before her, and long ago she had Foretold that the Royal House of Andor held the key to winning the Last Battle."

 

What I find interesting about this is that we don't see Elaida's actual Foretelling onscreen (as we do Gitara's on the birth of the DR, for example) so we only have Elaida's interpretation of her own words to go by. And she's already changed even that, from Royal line to Royal House. This may be significant: Rand is undoubtedly of the Royal line, being Tigraine Mantear's son; but he is not of the current Royal House (Trakand).

[FarShainMael]

And about Gitara's Foretelling. I understand why she sent Tigraine to the Waste, but why in the Seven Hells did she sent Luc to the Blight? There, he killed Rand's father and became the DO's no1 hitman.

And since Eliada remembered her Foretelling, why didn't Gitara remembered hers? She knew Tigraine will give birth to the DR, she knew about the Waste, but she died of shock when he was born.

And why didn't they considered for a second that the DR could be born by a woman following the Aiel, especially since Gitara sent her there? Did she just forget to mention that little tidbit of information? Did all the AS really believed all the Aiel were DF?!? Or their women couldn't have babies?!?

 

I've wondered about this myself. In fact, elsewhere (can't find it now) I've suggested that Gitara was herself BA, and sent Luc and Tigraine away to prevent anything like the DR's birth - then dies of shock when she finds she's actually caused it!

[Xcorpyo001]

And about Gitara's Foretelling. I understand why she sent Tigraine to the Waste, but why in the Seven Hells did she sent Luc to the Blight? There, he killed Rand's father and became the DO's no1 hitman.

And since Eliada remembered her Foretelling, why didn't Gitara remembered hers? She knew Tigraine will give birth to the DR, she knew about the Waste, but she died of shock when he was born.

And why didn't they considered for a second that the DR could be born by a woman following the Aiel, especially since Gitara sent her there? Did she just forget to mention that little tidbit of information? Did all the AS really believed all the Aiel were DF?!? Or their women couldn't have babies?!?

 

I've wondered about this myself. In fact, elsewhere (can't find it now) I've suggested that Gitara was herself BA, and sent Luc and Tigraine away to prevent anything like the DR's birth - then dies of shock when she finds she's actually caused it!

 

 

This is quite a nice theory. If she had a foretelling similar to that of Elaida, about the royal line of Andor being a major factor in defeating the DO/saving the world, she could have done everything in her power to destabilize it.

Luc sent to die in the Blight, Tigraine to die in the Waste(she was extremely lucky to be found by Maidens, and saved by them...they had no love for wetlanders, and one becoming a Maiden..).

And lastly, the queen herself.

Mordrellen was taken ill shortly after Tigraine's disappearance. Heartbroken with grief, she quickly died. With no surviving heirs, the Third War of Andoran Succession took place and the Lion Throne passed to Morgase Trakand.

Poor royal line of Andor. I understand why the Amyrlin chose a position that kept her in the WT at all times...she really sucked at being a royal adviser.

[FarShainMael]

Nice!!! Case closed on Gitara?

[Dewairah]

elaida's fortelling refers to Galad, i'll wager.

Elayne and gawyn will be near useless in TG - elayne handicapped by being heavily pregnant and barely able to channel. Gawyn handicapped by being himself...

 

I wouldnt be surpised though if one of the "twists" of aMoL is some stupid scene where gawyn saves rand somehow, foreshadowed from half a dozen books ago when gawyn threatened to see rand dead.

[FarShainMael]

Of course, it's entirely possible that it refers to everyone connected by blood to the throne of Andor. Rand; Galad; even Luc, whose ability in TAR and accidental training of Perrin may be important. Note that the Foretelling speaks of the Royal line, not the heir, which may indicate more than one person. It also mentions holding a key to victory, not victory itself.

 

Any ideas on what Galad's role might be?

[Dewairah]

uniting the whitecloaks and bringing them to TG would be a good start.

 

 

You're probably right in that it refers to more than one of the family members.

 

A house is more than 1 person.

[David Selig]

The Whitecloacks hardly matter, there are only several thousands of them (not counting recent barely trained recruits) and they have no channellers, Rand has half a million Aiel who are much better fighters on average - remember how Gaul and Perrin slaughtered a dozen Whitecloacks without braking a sweat back in TDR.