Eliada and the Royal house of Andor

[Guest Kielianapuna]

Has anyone thought of the fact that the current ruling house of Andor isn't one that fulfills Eliada's foretelling? Rand's mother makes more sense to me than Morgase.

[JKN-SW]

Yes, this has been duly noticed. It's one of many examples that Foretellings, Dreams and prophecies not always means what the fortellers, dreamers and prophets think they mean.

[LazyMonk]

Not quite, that's still uncertain. Eliada Foretold that 'the royal line of Andor was critical to the Last Battle'. For all we know, Elayne or Gawyn might be "critical to the Last Battle".

For that matter, perhaps the prophecy was about Gawyn saving Egwene from the Bloodknifes... Egwene's role is certainly "critical to the Last Battle".

 

You really can't trust those Foretellings.

[Xcorpyo001]

Not quite, that's still uncertain. Eliada Foretold that 'the royal line of Andor was critical to the Last Battle'. For all we know, Elayne or Gawyn might be "critical to the Last Battle".

For that matter, perhaps the prophecy was about Gawyn saving Egwene from the Bloodknifes... Egwene's role is certainly "critical to the Last Battle".

 

You really can't trust those Foretellings.

 

 

How exactly is her role critical to the Last Battle?

It's a prophecy I've missed that states that they'll lose the LB if she's not there?

And Rand's mother was of the royal line of Andor, so in a way it's true, since he's critical to the LB.

[Alric]

All the main characters of the books have their unique and certainly critical role to play for the Last Battle. But I think it is reasonable to assume that this Foretelling was about Rand. It serves a purpose as a warning not to try to interfere too much with prophesies that you don't understand. There is no better example of this than Elaida. Moiraine and Siuan learned their lesson and let Rand go, Elaida clinged on to trying to control the wrong person (Elayne) toward their destiny.

[LazyMonk]

How exactly is her role critical to the Last Battle?

It's a prophecy I've missed that states that they'll lose the LB if she's not there?

Can you imagine the chaos in the WT with the sudden loss of the charismatic and militant new Amyrlin? It is bound to drastically effect the AS ability to prepare for the Last Battle.

Also, Egwene think to herself (in TOM): "I can't think of him only as the Dragon Reborn. I'm here for a reason. He's here for a reason. To me, he must be Rand. Because Rand can be trusted, while the Dragon Reborn must be feared." -- She is the only Amyrlin who can bring herself to trust the Dragon, I'd say that's critical if they are to cooperate in the Last Battle.

[Xcorpyo001]

How exactly is her role critical to the Last Battle?

It's a prophecy I've missed that states that they'll lose the LB if she's not there?

Can you imagine the chaos in the WT with the sudden loss of the charismatic and militant new Amyrlin? It is bound to drastically effect the AS ability to prepare for the Last Battle.

Also, Egwene think to herself (in TOM): "I can't think of him only as the Dragon Reborn. I'm here for a reason. He's here for a reason. To me, he must be Rand. Because Rand can be trusted, while the Dragon Reborn must be feared." -- She is the only Amyrlin who can bring herself to trust the Dragon, I'd say that's critical if they are to cooperate in the Last Battle.

 

 

While she still clings to the idea that the DR must be feared, she's still in the dark. I bet she still thinks the Creator(and not LTT) bound the DO and the Forsaken at SG. She and Logain(the guy that believes the Creator, and not Rand, cleansed the Saidin) should get a room and...ohh, and let's not forget her idea that the evil men tried to free the DO from SG, an idea Moiraine did little to change in the first book. She's still basing many of her beliefs on stupid legends, and every time someone wants to point out something, she just brush it out as wrong, untrue, madness or ta'veren influence.

 

And her idea of cooperation is a little off.

Her only plan so far is to bully him into submission by weakening the defenses of the entire realm, WT included, or if this fails, make him feel her anger. Cooperation at it's finest.

 

And I still believe Eliada's foretelling is about Rand, and his connection to the royal line. If I remember correctly, his line was even older by a generation than Elayne's line, although I can't find that quote at the moment.

[Clayden69]

While it's true that Elaidas foretelling could mean Gawyn. Elayne or Morgase as well as Rands mother. I personally like to think that it only refers to Rands mother as it shows Elaida as being stupid for tying herself to Morgase for all those years

 

I've always thought that Rand isn't part of the Royal House of Andor as when he was brn his mother had renounced her claim to the throne, How can you b part of something if ur claim has been renounced? I know it's a technicality lol

[Xcorpyo001]

While it's true that Elaidas foretelling could mean Gawyn. Elayne or Morgase as well as Rands mother. I personally like to think that it only refers to Rands mother as it shows Elaida as being stupid for tying herself to Morgase for all those years

 

I've always thought that Rand isn't part of the Royal House of Andor as when he was brn his mother had renounced her claim to the throne, How can you b part of something if ur claim has been renounced? I know it's a technicality lol

 

Anyone with an army seems to think he/she has rights to the throne of Andor. And even if can't/won't claim the throne, his bloodline is still there. I'd say his bloodline is even better now, since he has access to a huge number of soldiers who follow his orders(almost all the time).

[Clayden69]

The Royal House of Andor is considered to be the house which currently holds the throne, so when Rands mother renounces she, and by extension Rand himself, are not part of the Royal House. Claiming a right to the throne doesnt make u part of the Royal House, you must have the throne to be the Royal House otherwise you are just another House of Andor

 

But hey Aiel Blademaster this is what makes books great, the fact they are open to different interpretations especially WoT with its MANY prophecies, portents and foretellings

[Clayden69]

anyway I prefer my original argument about it having been fulfilled already and Elaida was wasting her time with Morgase, just adds to Elaidas overwhelming aura of incompetence

[nolirion]

Well since Elayne carry the babies of Rand , in the end both meaning are truth no?

[Alric]

The Royal House of Andor is considered to be the house which currently holds the throne, so when Rands mother renounces she, and by extension Rand himself, are not part of the Royal House. Claiming a right to the throne doesnt make u part of the Royal House, you must have the throne to be the Royal House otherwise you are just another House of Andor

 

I'm quite sure her Foretelling referred to the royal line of Andor, so it is not tied to a specific house.

 

 

 

 

[Alric]

Well since Elayne carry the babies of Rand , in the end both meaning are truth no?

 

I'm still of the opinion that it was about Rand. Sure, the Trakands are important but any member of the royal family would influence politics anyway. The one that have a special importance is clearly Rand. If it does refer to more people than Rand, it would have to be Tigraine and Luc. Gitara Moroso convince both of them to seek out their fates and she clearly had a reason for it. Hers had to be acted upon, while Elaida's was more like a memo and her acting upon it could have been catastrophic (in tSR she is willing to kill Rand to protect Elayne).

[David Selig]

The Royal House of Andor is considered to be the house which currently holds the throne, so when Rands mother renounces she, and by extension Rand himself, are not part of the Royal House. Claiming a right to the throne doesnt make u part of the Royal House, you must have the throne to be the Royal House otherwise you are just another House of Andor

 

I'm quite sure her Foretelling referred to the royal line of Andor, so it is not tied to a specific house.

Elaida used both "Royal line" and "Royal house" to describe this Foretelling, IIRC the latter was even used more often.

[cmsnaith]

I had always thought the prophesy referred to Elayne's babies. Thought maybe in Rand's madness, the revelation that he has children would "snap" him out of it... or something. But since VoG, I guess not.

[Mats Spare Hat]

Quotable Quotes, for the sake of it:

 

 

TSR,Ch1 - "The very first thing Elaida had ever Foretold, while still an Accepted - and had known enough even then to keep to herself - was that the Royal line of Andor would be the key to defeating the Dark One in the Last Battle."

 

 

ACoS,Prologue - "Elaida had the Foretelling sometimes, a Talent many thought lost before her, and long ago she had Foretold that the Royal House of Andor held the key to winning the Last Battle."

[randsc]

When was Elaida raised? Isn't she a contemporary of Suian and Moiraine?

[Alric]

Not long before them, maybe a year or so. Its probably in New Spring.

 

 

[David Selig]

Elaida gained the shawl in the second year of Moiraine's time as a novice. Moiraine came to the tower in 972 NE, so Elaida gained the shawl in 973 NE. Tigraine went to the Waste in 972 NE, and her mother Queen Mordrellen died a a bit after that.

[DemandredFO]

I'm pretty sure for the purposes of making Eliada look like an idiot, it referred to Rand.

[Alric]

Ah, nevermind me then. I'm afraid of looking up dates because of spoilers so I'm going by what sticks in my head.

 

Elaida probably wasn't an Accepted for too long, so would it be fair to guess that her Foretelling came somewhere between 970-973? That would be very close to Gitara Moroso's Foretellings about Tigraine and Luc. I think that strengthens the theory that it was about Rand and not the Trakands.

 

 

[Mulk]

I've always taken it to mean that what was meant in the Foretelling she had was the royal line as it was at that time was the key, and that she made her Foretelling prior to Tigraine's departure - so, Tigraine and Luc and their offspring. Luc has none, so we look to Tigraine. Elaida then interpreted that to mean (because Tigraine and Luc's departures and Mordrellen's death came so close on the heels of her Foretelling) whomever would become the new ruling line of Andor. It makes a certain amount of sense, since no one knew where Tigraine and Luc had gotten to, so it's not quite as dumb as it sounds looking back at it.

 

This isn't to say Elayne et al are not important or have no part to play. However, Rand is clearly a descendant of what was the ruling house of Andor at the time the prophecy was made, and no one is more important to the cause of the Light than Rand is.

 

This also suggests that Luc has a part to play at the Last Battle himself, or at least I think it does. I'm interested to see what becomes of Luc/Isam.

[Alric]

It makes a certain amount of sense, since no one knew where Tigraine and Luc had gotten to, so it's not quite as dumb as it sounds looking back at it.

 

Yep, her interpretation isn't that unreasonable, the real problem is how she handles it. You need to be very careful with prophesies, and being willing to kill the Dragon Reborn to protect the Daughter-Heir is just mindbogglingly stupid.

 

 

However, Rand is clearly a descendant of what was the ruling house of Andor at the time the prophecy was made, and no one is more important to the cause of the Light than Rand is.

 

Exactly. I think it is that simple.

 

At the time it is revealed to us (tSR prologue) we have only had one off-hand comment about Rand's resemblance to Tigraine, and we only know that she disappeared, not how or why. It would take a very clever mind to connect the dots. It fits very well with how RJ tends to slip small, gradual hints until even the slowest people get it. Most people would not realize Tigraine is Rand's mother until he realizes it in LoC, but through Elaida we can figure it out earlier. I think part of the purpose of the Foretelling is to slip us a hint about Rand's heritage since Elaida's interpretation at the time makes little sense to a reader who imagines that Rand will lead the Last Battle.

 

 

[David Selig]

You need to be very careful with prophesies, and being willing to kill the Dragon Reborn to protect the Daughter-Heir is just mindbogglingly stupid.

Huh? When did that happen?

 

The really stupid thing done by Elaida in regards to this Foeretelling was completely ignoring Gawyn and Galad and focusing on Elayne only, she even tried to arrange to have Gawyn suffer an "accident" and be killed.