Thom killed Tarangail?

[Xader]

I was cruising the terrorweb, and I came upon this quote. "(Thom) thwarted Taringail's plan to kill Morgase and killed him." Now, I take this sentence with a grain of salt, considering the source.

 

For the life of me, I cannot recall any mention of this in the series. I don't own any of the books (for all that I've read the series at least a half-dozen times), so I can't reference them.

 

So is this legit, or was the "author" just pulling it out of his or her backside?

 

Anyone?

[Suttree]

I was cruising the terrorweb, and I came upon this quote. "(Thom) thwarted Taringail's plan to kill Morgase and killed him." Now, I take this sentence with a grain of salt, considering the source.

 

For the life of me, I cannot recall any mention of this in the series. I don't own any of the books (for all that I've read the series at least a half-dozen times), so I can't reference them.

 

So is this legit, or was the "author" just pulling it out of his or her backside?

 

Anyone?

 

I believe that Thom found out about Taringail's plan to become the first King of Andor and shortly after Taringail died in a "hunting accident". It's been said the Damodred's had a dark reputation even before Laman's sin. As skilled as Thom is at the Game of Houses in addition to his feelings for Morgase it makes sense that he would be keeping an eye on him. Thom's almost certain involvement in the later death of King Galldrian Riatin shows what lengths he will go to and would seem to make it even more probable that he has taken such actions before.

[Xader]

So Thom's involvement in "the accident" is conjecture -albeit reasonably supported-, and not confirmed?

 

This may explain why I missed the connection..

[Barid Bel Medar]

So Thom's involvement in "the accident" is conjecture -albeit reasonably supported-, and not confirmed?

 

This may explain why I missed the connection..

 

Yes, conjecture only. (unless further evidence is there?)

 

When people state things as fact like "This is so...." when it is really an opinion, and they should clarify "I think it is so...." is one of my pet peeves. Some say that I am making a big deal out of nothing (which may be true)

 

But here is a perfect example.

 

It confuses people if they just read something casually.

 

So while it is suggestive that Thom was involved in the "accident", (and may be true) we dont actually know for sure.

[Sharaman]

It's been hinted at and conjectured but not certain that Thom is a double-regicide. Galdrian we're almost 100% sure he killed and we know the reason. About Taraingail, there is a hint however, in Moiraine's conversation with him in TSR. Chapter 17

Her smile was just short of laughter' date=' but she spoke as if reading from a page. “Thomdril Merrilin. Called

the Gray Fox, once, by some who knew him, or knew of him. Court-bard at the Royal Palace of Andor in

Caemlyn. Morgase’s lover for a time, after Taringail died. [b']Fortunate for Morgase, Taringail’s death. I do not

suppose she ever learned he meant her to die and himself to be Andor’s first king. [/b]But we were speaking of

Thom Merrilin, a man who, it was said, could play the Game of Houses in his sleep. It is a shame that such a

man calls himself a simple gleeman. But such arrogance to keep the same name.”

Clearly Moiraine thought he had and Moiraine had a personal interest since she was Taraingail's step sister.

[Suttree]

So Thom's involvement in "the accident" is conjecture -albeit reasonably supported-, and not confirmed?

 

This may explain why I missed the connection..

 

Yes, conjecture only. (unless further evidence is there?)

 

When people state things as fact like "This is so...." when it is really an opinion, and they should clarify "I think it is so...." is one of my pet peeves. Some say that I am making a big deal out of nothing (which may be true)

 

But here is a perfect example.

 

It confuses people if they just read something casually.

 

So while it is suggestive that Thom was involved in the "accident", (and may be true) we dont actually know for sure.

 

Yes we have nothing to actually prove it but I suspect Jordan would have filed this under one of his intuitively obvious mysteries...

[Barid Bel Medar]

So Thom's involvement in "the accident" is conjecture -albeit reasonably supported-, and not confirmed?

 

This may explain why I missed the connection..

 

Yes, conjecture only. (unless further evidence is there?)

 

When people state things as fact like "This is so...." when it is really an opinion, and they should clarify "I think it is so...." is one of my pet peeves. Some say that I am making a big deal out of nothing (which may be true)

 

But here is a perfect example.

 

It confuses people if they just read something casually.

 

So while it is suggestive that Thom was involved in the "accident", (and may be true) we dont actually know for sure.

 

Yes we have nothing to actually prove it but I suspect Jordan would have filed this under one of his intuitively obvious mysteries...

 

Yes, I know, I was just answering the question.

 

So Thom's involvement in "the accident" is conjecture -albeit reasonably supported-, and not confirmed?

 

And while it is pretty obvious to most people, we cant count it as fact.

 

People at DM argue anything that isnt directly quoted 5 times. We would argue if water is wet.

[chuckievi]

We would argue if water is wet.

 

Totally isn't wet if it is below 20ish F...

[The Fisher King]

RJ was an author who, unlike many other authors, gave his readers alot of credit and did not explicitly state every little thing. He gave us enough.

 

I have no doubt in my mind Thom was responsible for T gettin OFFED.

 

IMO, The most valuable lesson to take from this situation is: Don't EFF With The Gray Fox.

 

Or, soon, you'll be dirt nappin with Galldrian and Tarangail.

 

 

 

Fish

[Xader]

...I suspect Jordan would have filed this under one of his intuitively obvious mysteries...

 

Yep, cause we all know that everyone agrees w/RJ on the definition of "intuitively obvious"...

 

That said, while I "knew" that Thom had killed Galldrian (and who could blame him?), the fact that he was responsible for Tarangail eluded me...

 

These royal folk really need to stop going after Thom's love interests. It never ends well for them.

[Luckers]

I myself reguard this is pretty certain. Moiraine is too wily to have brought it up were she not certain, and more to the point, Thom never bats an eye, and I think he would have noticed that sort of mistake on her part.

 

These royal folk really need to stop going after Thom's love interests. It never ends well for them.

 

Almost makes you feel sorry for the Finns, doesn't it.

[Suttree]

Would love to read the entire backstory on the Grey Fox. How sick would that be...

[Val Mickey]

It's pretty certain that Thom is Taringail's murderer, but Bryne should also be a close suspect. Thom could've manipulated Bryne into doing it, and Bryne has better chances of being in a hunting expedition. Also, that guilt never crosses Thom's mind, when he decides to accompany Elayne to Tanchico. On the other hand, it could be the reason why decides to teach the Great Game to .

[rshipers]

I feel really backwards in this. From the quote above I was pretty sure Thom was involved in Taringail's death, but a couple of weeks ago someone said that he had killed Galldrian and I had no idea where it came from. Other than Galldrian's men killing Dena and Thom leaving Cairhien right afterwards is there anything else to show that he did it? I know he had reason, but I just never thought about him getting a chance to do it.

[Byzantine279]

Veh, he did not leave immediately. The common theory is he infiltrated Gall's court and killed him and then fled the country, ending up in Tar Valon, where he met Mat. He was a master of the Game of Houses so for him infiltrating the royal court was probably an easy task, considering it took less than a year for Gall. to die.

[rshipers]

The only problem I have with that is supposedly Galldrian sent the men after him, so wouldn't Thom be recognized in the court? How would he be able to get close to the king to assassinate him if the king already sent assassins after Thom? I know Thom's good, but that seems a stretch to me. I don't think anyone in the kings court would trust him after he was seen in Barthanes manor either.

[The Fisher King]

Would love to read the entire backstory on the Grey Fox. How sick would that be...

 

That would be like Crack.

 

 

Fish

[Byzantine279]

The only problem I have with that is supposedly Galldrian sent the men after him, so wouldn't Thom be recognized in the court? How would he be able to get close to the king to assassinate him if the king already sent assassins after Thom? I know Thom's good, but that seems a stretch to me. I don't think anyone in the kings court would trust him after he was seen in Barthanes manor either.

 

As i said, he is a master of the Game of Houses. It is quite likely he managed to convince the king that his time around Barthanes was just an act and that he was really siding with the king the entire time. And more than that he would have convinced them all of it without any of them realizing they were being convinced. Remember the king had no idea that his men killed a woman Thom loved.

[Baletickle_to_da_face!]

I might be wrong, but I doubt it was a case of Thom worming his way into Galladrian's trust.

 

If Thom acted fast, he would have been able to get at Galladrian before the king realized that his assassians have flubbed things badly. Before Galladrian realized anything at all had gone wrong.

 

And it's not like every maid and servent in Galladrian's castle would have been on Thom alert. I would imagine he acted fast, used a little infiltration, and killed the king nice and quick.

[Luckers]

I doubt anyone at all was on 'Thom-alert'. The king didn't go after Thom for Thom's sake, he went after a minor musician because he was seen talking to the mysterious Rand Al'thor. I very much doubt the King even considered the possibility that annoying Thom could have dangerous consequences to himself.

[Suttree]

I doubt anyone at all was on 'Thom-alert'. The king didn't go after Thom for Thom's sake, he went after a minor musician because he was seen talking to the mysterious Rand Al'thor. I very much doubt the King even considered the possibility that annoying Thom could have dangerous consequences to himself.

 

Good call Luck, sure there was zero worry whatsoever. Thom is just a simple Gleeman after all.

[Sentinel78]

I agree Thom probably played a large hand in their deaths, but assassination does not seem likely. In Tear, Thom was forging letters that were intended to be intercepted to cause suspicion. He probably got someone else to do his dirty work for him.

[Luckers]

I agree Thom probably played a large hand in their deaths, but assassination does not seem likely. In Tear, Thom was forging letters that were intended to be intercepted to cause suspicion. He probably got someone else to do his dirty work for him.

 

 

Thom definately assasinated Galldrian personally. I think it most probable that he assasinated Tarangail personally as well, though its possible he manipulated someone else into doing it. I do not think that likely though--in Tear he was playing the Great Game, in Andor and Cairhein he was protecting/revenging those he loves.

[Kaznen]

I agree Thom probably played a large hand in their deaths, but assassination does not seem likely. In Tear, Thom was forging letters that were intended to be intercepted to cause suspicion. He probably got someone else to do his dirty work for him.

 

 

Thom definately assasinated Galldrian personally. I think it most probable that he assasinated Tarangail personally as well, though its possible he manipulated someone else into doing it. I do not think that likely though--in Tear he was playing the Great Game, in Andor and Cairhein he was protecting/revenging those he loves.

Thom was part James Bond and part Carl Rove then. I'm sure he orchestrated Tarangail's death but I think he did so in a way that could not be linked back to him. When Tarangail went hunting I think Thom was probably back in the city at a place like The Queen's Blessing if not in the palace with Morgase. Even if the hunting was like those picnic, party, hunts I doupt he would have gotten away long enough to track and kill Tarangail.

 

The best assasination is the kind that not only doesn't implement the mastermind but makes it so somebody else takes the blame and another is seen as the mastermind. Knowing Thom, he probably set things up, for if it was determined not to be an accident, that it would accuse his top political rival at the time, Elaida.

 

OT, I think the two waged a "Game of Houses" war between each other in Morgase's court that was epic. I also think she used her Ajah connections to get the reds to gentle Owen Merrlin on the spot and leave him for dead. Basically she played a political nuke that made Thom have to flee Camalyn.

 

I will say, I don't think Tarangail was a plot used to primarily get at Elidia, but if the oppurtunity should arise and somebody has to take the fall why not your chief rival.

[Durinax]

thom could easily have infiltrated the kings manor by saying he had some important information about barthanes that would give him the upper hand