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Everything posted by Baletickle_to_da_face!

  1. Now that I am done with ToM and the long wait starts for aMoL I am interested in reading some of Brandon's other stuff. I am just curious if there is any preferred order to his books? Elantris, Warbreaker, or should I just start with the Mistborn series?
  2. Oh come on, easy answer! Lini, share with us your wisdom(and no I didn't look all these up, they are compliments of the WoT Encyclopedia).... TDR,Ch48 - Do not cut off your ears because you do not like your earrings. TSR,Ch6 - You can weave silk from pig bristles before you can make a man anything but a man. TSR,Ch6 - A weeping woman is a bucket with no bottom. TSR,Ch16 � Poke the meekest dog too often and he will bite. TFoH,Ch9 - A man is a man, on a throne or in a pigsty. TFoH,Ch10 - A shoat squealing under a fence just attracts the fox, when it should be trying to run. TFoH,Ch10 - Not thinking about a thorn doesn't make it hurt your foot any less. TFoH,Ch13 - A fool puts her hand into a hollow tree without finding what's inside first. TFoH,Ch14 - If you don't look for snakes, you cannot complain when one bites you. TFoH,Ch19 - A gnarled old branch dulls the blade that severs a sapling. TFoH,Ch19 - When the honey's out of the comb, there's no putting it back. TFoH,Ch19 - Better to face the bear than run from it. TFoH,Ch19 - A fool puts a burr under the saddle before she rides. TFoH,Ch19 - Dragging feet never finish a journey. TFoH,Ch34 - You cannot hold the sun down at dawn. TFoH,Ch35 - Even a queen stubs her toe, but a wise woman watches the path. TFoH,Ch47 - Waiting turns men into bears in a barn, and women into cats in a sack. TFoH,Ch49 - An open sack hides nothing, and an open door hides little, but an open man is surely hiding something. TFoH,Ch49 - To know two, you must first know one. TFoH,Ch50 - "Wish" and "want" trip the feet, but "is" makes the path smoother. TFoH,Ch56 - A young lion charges quickest, and when you least expect it. TFoH,Ch56 - There's no point letting honey age too long before you eat it. TFoH,Ch56 - It's too late to change your mind after you've jumped off the cliff. LoC,Prologue - A slow horse does not always reach the end of the journey. LoC,Prologue - The right medicine always tastes bitter. LoC,Ch7 - What can't be changed must be endured. LoC,Ch7 - The pike does not ask the frog's permission before dining. LoC,Ch13 - What you need isn't always what you want. LoC,Ch37 - You can't put honey back in the comb. LoC,Ch39 - Fools only listen to themselves. ACoS,Ch23 - The blindest are those who keep their eyes shut. ACoS,Ch26 - Only fools kiss hornets or bite fire. ACoS,Ch30 - You can never put honey back in the comb. TPoD,Ch2 - Peel the apple in your hand, girl, not the one on the tree. TPoD,Ch2 - Tears are for after; they just waste time before. TPoD,Ch2 - When a woman plays the fool, look for the man. TPoD,Ch2 - Kittens tangle your yarn, men tangle your wits, and it's simple as breathing for both. TPoD,Ch3 - It's one of the things men are for, taking the blame. They usually deserve it, even if you don't know exactly how. TPoD,Ch5 - No knife is sharper than a sister's hate. TPoD,Ch7 - A fool abandons friends, and gives up silver for shiny brass. TPoD,Ch7 - Three things annoy to distraction: a tooth that aches, a shoe that pinches, and a man that chatters. TPoD,Ch20 - Be sure of yourself, girl, but not too sure. TPoD,Ch20 - It isn't the stone you see that trips you on your nose. TPoD,Ch20 - A secret spoken finds wings. WH,Ch6 - Sup from too many dishes, and you deserve a bellyache that'll split you open. WH,Ch9 - A full stomach at midday makes for a dull head in the afternoon. CoT,Ch12 - You count your plums in the basket, not on the tree. CoT,Ch13 - When you ask questions, then you have to hear the answers whether you want to or not. CoT,Ch14 - Always plan ahead, but worry too hard over next year, and you can trip over tomorrow. KoD,Ch13 - You can't put honey back in the comb, child. KoD,Ch14 - You can't know another woman's reasons until you've worn her dress for a year.
  3. 1. As didymos already pointed out, it ususually does mean just that. And in the context of the sentence is seems very, very much to be referring to a physical, rather then a figurative feature. By which I mean the descriptive, literal part of the sentence which refers to the actual "eyes" includes the word "dark" and then the descriptive terms come after in "glassy" and "hard". 2. Even if this were the case, the dark eyes are the only physical trait even suggesting these aren't Aiel! If you take that away, then there is virtually no reason to not think these are corrupted Aiel. Yes, we used this to expand upon the idea into requiring a longterm Aiel presence in the Blight, but the idea really stands on it's own without that. Actually, now that we've gotten this clue, there are so many reasons to do this is almost seems crazy that no one thought of it before. Why have a self sustaining, divergent, clan of Aiel in the Blight that is corrupted and working for the Shadow? 1. Whatever blunders the Forsaken has shown, one thing they have always done at least is show savvy in that they see the value in channelers. The Black Ajah has existed for a long time, and the Shadow dipped it's fingers in on the ground floor when the Black Tower was formed. So, why not have a homegrown group of channelers? 2. Ah, but how to do that? The Blight is a merciless deathtrap for all those who enter. I mean, there's not a hardy group of fearless warriors that have shown themselves to be capable of surviving in the harshest envirionment imaginable...is there? 3. Seeing this, would the Aiel not make a tempting target for Ishy on one of his 40 years trips from the Bore? Lets face it, we have accepted it as a matter of course, but there's really no reason why the Aiel should have a tradition of sending male channelers into the Blight is there? In fact the whole tradition looks a little suspicious when you look at it in this context. Seems like a great little seed for Ishy to plant. These Aiel channelers could be forcefully turned, and then left to breed with borderland hostages. Thier children would then be tainted by the Blight knows what. Thier parents teaching....the food itself? All manner of things. 4. So yeah, I would say a group of loyal supersoldier DF with the bonus of gathering in all the male channelers of that race would be a pretty good plan for the Shadow. How would they guard Moridin's fortress if they were in the Mountains of Dhoom? What about the Blight indicates that they would be able to use it's natural resources to produce material for tents? Assuming that the Aiel would use the same exact survival methods for living in a new envirionment is incorrect. But the trait they have shown, of being adaptable, would fit with building thier habitats out of what is available. As I said, this is one of those things that seems so obvious now. From the Forsaken tea party we know that there are some type of people surviving in the Blight. They are building habitats and farming. We are given a clue that they have been doing this for years, at least. Gran says it's been a long time since she'd been there, and then goes on to make the curious statement that the mysterious farmers "must be trying new strains of crops" meaning someone must have been farming there the last time Gran had been there. So knowing this, even discounting the CRAD's in the epiclogue.....who exactly do you think could/would be surviving and actually showing signs of a livable culture in the Blight? Alright, I think I have made a pretty good case for it without establishing that the missing Aiel DF are definitely missing. So I will say this, it is perfectly possible that we just haven't seen the Aiel DF. Afterall, it's a matter of which PoV we are shown, and the CRAD's themselves are rather conspicious by thier absence in the first 11 books! That said, it's not exactly like this is something that only I've noticed. It has long, loooooong been pondered why exactly the Aiel are the one culture that show almost no sign of DF infiltration. The sneaky Shaido, even with all thier flaws, have been shown through action and PoV to be surprisingly clean from DF. Couladin was a fool, Sevanna was power hungry, and the rest of the scattering of PoV from them we have seen are clean. Sammy had to trick them into using the goof-boxes to scatter them. If I remember right pretty much every Wise One around Sevanna was against trusting Sammy on this offer, so that seems to indicate he didn't have anyone on the inside backing him up. While Sorelea still might have some 'splainin to do on SH discovering Cads stash, both Rhuarc and Amys, long suspected to finally blow the DF lid off the Aiel were shown in ToM to almost certainly not be DF. Rhuarc stood right in front of "peer into your soul" Rand with no reaction, and it's hard to imagine that Amys would still refuse to break cover even when one of the Forsaken was on the line. In fact, I sensed that Brandon was actually having a little fun with us when the Wise Ones kept bleeding out of the walls and coming at Egwene with thier snide comments, but nope. No turncoats there. Actually, while it seems likely that the "glassy" part refers precisely to being turned, my theory doesn't hinge on that fact. In fact, the idea that the Aiel have been longtime inhabitants of the Blight would suggest that there could be male Aiel channelers that don't need to be turned to be loyal to the DO. Granted, there's one piece I hadn't accounted for in my previous statement and that is that none of the characters at the Black Tower were about kill someone. This may be the one time the shadow inside comes alive and expresses a true emotion. Will keep this in mind for the future - however, the evidence as of yet points to them being something else. There is another big thing you are missing here. The PoV from the Black Tower has a reference point from which to base all of thier assumptions. The PoV for the CRAD's has no such reference point. By which I mean, Pevara is Tarna's friend. She has probably seen her laugh, seen her happy, seen her annoyed, and knows her. So when she looks into her eyes, she sees the lack of those things. Which in turn look like a deadness to her. To Barriga, he has no reference point to what these men are like, so he has no reference point to know just how horrible the look in those eyes are. Besides all that, I think we have definitive word from Jordan himself that the assumptions you are making are incorrect. A forceful turning does not change a person completely or make them dead inside(ala a Gray Man). It enhances the negative aspects of that persons personality. Wouldn't you kind of suspect that a reserved Aes Sedai "enhanced negatively" would have more of a "dead" look in her eyes, while an Aiel "enhanced negatively" would take pleasure in killing. Yeah, I am liking this theory not just because it makes sense, but because it makes a LOT of literary sense. I know everyone does not agree, but the more we talk about it, the more I am convinced that this is either..... 1. Aiel channelers sent to the Blight and turned to the Shadow. Something that is reltitively new and small scale and involves only channelers. 2. Something largescale on the order of an entire corrupted clan with thier own culture, cultivated by Ishy(this is my favorite) 3. Alternate reality Aiel that have been shipped in from another dimension(this one is certainly possible, but I like the others because they tie up more loose ends) The more we talk about it, the more I am convinced that there's no way this is Fain's doing, Sharamen, or anything else. This has to be some kind of Aiel.
  4. Really? Because I think the points that we have brought up are pretty strong. I don't find your simple assertion that we are grasping at straws to be very convincing. Perhaps you could give some reasons for why our points are wrong. 1. Do we even know that Melindhra follows any kind of ji'e'toh? What indication of that do we have of that other then what could have been her playing the part? 2. If you would have read what me and others were saying, we were saying that in the precious few bits of info we got about these guys, they seem to have a twisted form of thier own ji'e'toh. Viels, spears, cadin'sor. The unvieling to kill smacks of being a corruption of the Aiel's culture norm. A few more things of interest about this.... -From a book signing tour.... Remember that Jordan himself said RAFO sometimes means "Read what's out and figure it out", not just reading future books. I am not exactly sure what Brandon is saying here if it's not that those CRAD's are what we think they are. -Another small note, I was watching a Discovery channel special last night about the Great Rift Valley in Africa and it had a bit about the Afar people. People who collect the pure salt left over on the land from a long dried sea. And how they get water from isolated hot springs. The springs are high in floride. And the interesting thing about floride is that in small amounts it strengthens teeth, but in large amounts it actually softens them. Allowing the men of the tribe to perform a ritual where they actually chistle thier teeth to points. I just find the ideas of the island of Madmen or Sharans to be completely unsatisfactory. When something looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, why are we calling it a goose?
  5. Power hungry and known to have schemed with a known DF. Still, point taken. It's still not really important in the big picture of what we are talking about.
  6. Brilliant! It's very interesting that you made this connection, and if fits so well. This didn't even cross my mind, though it definitely should have. The only thing that made me make the connection, as I said, was a comment by Jordan(taken from the theoryland interview archive).... Before ToM came out I was reading a lot about Slayer because I was one of the "there's a lot we don't know about Slayer, and what we don't know is going to reveal him as Asmo's killer" people(whoops!). This quote rolled over me, but I always found it suspcious. Why wouldn't his mother raise him? She was a DF, so why the hell wouldn't she raise him? And why RAFO who did raise him? I always assumed it would be a pretty simple answer. That even if his mother didn't raise him he could be raised in a DF house in the northern Borderlands or something. Dancing around it struck me as being suggestive of his raising being somewhere in the Blight. And TGS made me even more suspicious with it's seemingly inhabited fortress. Discussing this idea about the Blight just kinda made it click in my head that an Aiel clan in the Blight would make a perfect place to be raised for a young Isam/Slayer. The fact that you would independantly throw out an idea like the WO schooling him on TAR that fits so well is a pretty good indication that we are on the right track imho.
  7. Assuming this DF sept of Aiel was founded by turning the Aiel men who could channel and went north to fight the dark one, they'd need women to continue their sept. It's alot easier to capture women from the borderlands or Shara then it is from the waste. So their descendants have darker features than the original Aiel. Exactly. At this point, the only thing that even really suggests that they aren't Aiel is the eye color, and this explanation pegs that one. It also fits well with being a plan of Ishy/Moridin. Since we know that he's the one that's been thinking longterm since he was locked up. He could have initiated the Aiel in the Blight plan any time he was free along with his Seanchan plan, and likely his forming the Black Ajah(which in turn could have turned Aiel channelers to start, and then set a "culture" on a path that would have been self-sustaining, but tainted). The other differences like sharp teeth, red viel, and unvieling to kill really enhance the impression that these are Aiel....but different. Not that these are not Aiel at all. It suggests a longterm divergence of "culture" that could have been created in a Blight bound Aiel sept. Interesting sidenote: I beleive that Jordan was dodgey when asked who exactly it was who raised Isam after they were overrun. A clan of Aiel inhabiting the Blight seem good candidates. I really would suggest that anyone puzzling over this go back and read the Forsaken tea party in The Gathering Storm. There does seem to be some tastey clues buried in there. The whole setting itself suggests very, very much that those talking about inhabitable zones in the Blight are dead on. Moridin has his little fortress in the Blight, and not only does it seem "habitable", but it has "guards" that have to stay on duty to protect Moridin's fortress from certain monsters of the Blight that follow no one, not even Moridin. The question is....who exactly are the guards? Could they be of the Aiel sept we're talking about? Seems like a likely choice, since up until then we haven't really seen Moridin with an organized army of Randland DF that he's transplanted into the Blight. Here's the interesting quote(it's a Graendal PoV)..... While the details of the guards aren't a perfect match, I think it is still possible(they both where black and the used of the word "prowled" suggests these are not just normal DF guards). But this passage clearly shows that some kind of people are trying to inhabit the Blight. And the bolded part pretty much clinches that whatever it is, it is the same as what Perrin and co. found.
  8. *Mind is blown* How the hell did this thread get even this far without someone talking about the "There is ______ in the Blight"?! This has been discussed at length, and we were given a good indication that there is indeed a Portal Stone in the Blight, but that has always seemed anticlimatic and didn't really fit with the context of the story we have heard from team Jordan. Now, tell me this doesn't sound perfect......"There's a sept of Aiel darkfriends in the Blight". "There's a what?!". *hours of details follow* This makes perfect sense now, it answers quite a few questions, and fits perfectly(not to mention it is a much more satisifying answer then I ever saw anyone else guess). Some notes.... -As someone mentioned on this thread, but didn't quite tie together all the pieces, this would include a lot of Aiel, not just channelers. As a lot of Aiel go to the Blight for joyrides. And yes, there could very well be an encourgement for DF Aiel to slip out and go on these excurisions. But here is where the things really snap into place; we have seen every nationality and race be rife with DF...the Aiel are the single exception. People keep suspecting Rhuarc or Amys or others, but after ToM we are more sure then ever that that's just not the case. Where are all the DF Aiel? With a few exceptions, they are in the Blight! -Go back and read the Forsaken tea party in The Gathering Storm. All of those that are guessing that Dem's rule is anywhere in the Blight are almost surely mistaken. Not only is it made pretty clear that everything in the Blight is directly under Moridin's control, Moridin also wants a status update on Dem's rule. I just don't see anything in the Blight being out of Ishy's view. Now that it's looking like the Borderland army was a red herring all along, I am digging the idea of Dem marshalling an alternate reality. There just doesn't seem to be anyone left for Dem to be in charge of.
  9. We may never know the answer, but I've gotten the impression that what is given is not really the choice of the foxes. I may be wrong. But it seems like the items they have given out have been rather mish mash. I don't think the requests are made, and then the foxes decide what they are going to make. Either they somehow have a vast hodgepodge of items dealing with the power they they pick through and have to take what works for the situation, or(I like this one better) perhaps the agreement between humans and foxes creates some kind of "random item generator". The human makes thier request, the foxes add thier intent, and the item is forged in a random mix of those things. So that the human doesn't get exactly what they might want, but the foxes don't have complete control over what gets made either. Cause lets face it, there's no reason that the foxes HAD to give Mat a foxhead medallion that negates the power, or a blade on a stick that is a quarterstaff(the melee weapon we had already seen Mat be proficient with) that just turns out to fulfill a basically unrelated request. There is some kind of randomness going on there, I think. The funny thing is that I didn't even realize until I posted that last sentence that it's exactly the kind of process that you would expect Mat to get a great outcome from! If the exact items are some kind of random generation, then you would expect Mat to hit the figurative jackpot!
  10. Not sure if it's been discussed, but I do think I remember the quote. If so, it's probably the Noam thing. It's funny how obvious that answer was and no one seemed to figure it out. Ties into Jordan's theme of how you can't trust anyones opinion in the series just because they speak it authoritatively. I think most took Moiraine's word with too much authority. Just another example of great sublty from Jordan.
  11. One of the few times when i thought Siuan might be a bit dumb. What´s the point of the oaths anyway? To get people to trust them? Nobody does. Everybody knows they only follow the letter and not the spirit of the oaths. I tend to agree. I had to repeat the point, but I think Jordan tried to make too much out of this. What should have been a fairly straightforward, decent "oh cool, so that's why this is such and such" was turned into this big thing. Suian gives a great, impassioned speech that I think had a lot of valid points. Lemme see if I can find it.... Suian is certainly correct in that a unifying set of ideals is important to an organization to bring order and meaning. However, even when you take away the big practical problem of halving lifespans for the sake of these oaths, I still find the ideological basis for them to be suspect if not downright pointless. The only one that really does anything of meaning is the one that forbids sisters from using the One Power as a weapon. Though the fact that sisters can still intimidate anyone from rulers to beggars with the One Power(weaves of Air and the like) into doing what they want, this one basically becomes, "Though shalt not kill in cold blood with the One Power"(simce you can use it in defense of your life or your Warder's). Seems like maybe some morals and a strictly enforced rule might be enough to tackle that one. The one preventing sisters from creating weapons with the power from the beginning has seemed such a throwaway for me. Is it really that important? So a guy has to sharpen his sword or buy a new one instead of having a perma-sword. Oh noes, break out the oaths! And finally, the monument to hypocrisy and Aes Sedai's legacy of adhering to the letter of a law rather then the spirit, the oath about not lying. Can't decide if it's sad or just funny that they think this oath instills a sense of trust in the general population! I get the mentality that "well, they know when it comes right down to it that if a sister says something straight out, they mean it!". But you know what, the fact is that we have repeatedly seen from pretty much everyone that the actual result is that unless a sister says something straight out, no one beleives ANYTHING they say, and even when they say it straight out, everyone looks for loop holes! Funny(or maybe just said) because no one reacts with anything but respect and trust when the Wise Ones say something! All in all, I find it just kind of dissapointing. Jordan clearly fell on the side of the three oaths. So much so that he gave Suian this big speech that I really think was meant to be inspiring and meaningful and a testament to what virtues the Aes Sedai stands for. But to a point, I think the three oaths(and especially the lying bit) is a testament to what is wrong with Aes Sedai.
  12. The oath rod thing is something that I think Jordan meant to be a big reveal in later books, but it was one of his flops, I think. He spread it too thin over too long a timeframe. So much so that instead of being a "oh wow!" reveal it's something that was revealed so poorly that a lot of people don't even seem to realize that it was a reveal at all. To tell the truth, I probably wouldn't either if I didn't read a lot of the FAQ stuff. The three oaths were not a part of the AoL Aes Sedai. The purpose and organization of Aes Sedai was completely different in the AoL, so there really would have been no reason for the three oaths. The reason that the Forsaken show amusement and a little disdain for the oaths is that the oath rod that the Aes Sedai see as a honor and center of ceremony was actually a binding rods in the AoL, and used on convicted criminals! Just some other tidbits.... -Being binded by the oaths basically halves the lifespan of the Aes Sedai. This is why it was signifigant that the women of the Kin lived 600 years. They weren't bound by the oaths. -The binding effect of the oath rod is what gives the Aes Sedai thier ageless look. It's basically a facelift type effect where the binding physically pulls the skin tight. -This was the basis for the brief back and forth between Egwene and Suian about whether the Aes Sedai should give up the three oaths(because it was halving thier lifespan). -Suian was able to convince Egwene that the oaths were important to define what it is to be Aes Sedai, so Egwene is back on board for keeping with tradition, with the possibility of allowing retiring Aes Sedai to be unbound, hopefully lengthening thier lifespan. I think that about sums it up. Anything important I missed?
  13. I found that The Gathering Storm brough a new energy to the series with a new voice, backed by RJ's masterful worldbuilding and plot twists. I said that it would take some rereads, but I felt The Gathering Storm would be my 2nd favorite in the series behind The Shadow Rising. I worried when everyone was saying that ToM was a lot different then TGS. That it was much bigger in scope and less focused. Boy, it's funny how things turn out because I am now more certain that TGS will not be my second favorite in the series, it's almost certainly ToM. One thing I loved about ToM is that the book is just simple never not good. Even TGS had a slow boil the first 10 chapters or so. But ToM doesn't have that. Even the early chapters are either fast paced, or shoved full of longtime WoTnerd revealgasms. I think what I really love about ToM is that both in spirit and substance it is a sequel to the big 3 TSR/tFoH/LoC. So much of what happens in ToM feels like a direct conclusion of those books. The books inbetween feel like footnotes. On top of that, the writing is just amazing. The book contains an emotional impact that I don't think any of the others have short of TSR(I think I said the same thing about TGS last year, but wow....even better). Just amazed that this book is as good as it is.....I never thought TSR could be rivaled for me, but ToM is close.
  14. I love how so many here are either.... 1. So convinced this isn't a bigger deal then Asmo's killer 2. What's the big deal, I knew there was something up with that thing! First off, Asmo's killer is nothing. Nada. Zero. Zilch. Inconsequential to the story. Jordan thought it was obvious, and there was a time that even after the fandom went nuts about it, he wasn't even going to bother answering it in the books. Brandon, as was I, was a reader who never even cared about who Asmo's killer was until I came online and saw others making such a big fuss about it. The ONLY way in which you could say that Asmo's killer was a bigger deal was in the specific case that it's something that the hardcore fandom frothed over. But there was never any qualifier needed from Brandon to confirm this, since by it's very nature, the BUT was not going to be as big in a fandom sense as Asmo's killer since Brandon said that he'd never even really seen the BUT discussed. Secondly, I love that people act like this wasn't a big deal because they knew something was up. Yeah, just like how we knew something was up with Verin. Just like how we should have seen the "plain as the nose on your face" explanation for why Noam went wolf and Elyas didn't. The answer is really easy to see after you've gotten the answer. A shame that all of you that knew there was something up with the Ashandarei don't have thread links to how you broke down exactly how and why. I am not saying that none of you knew, but I remember on Terez's thread when she spilled the beans that they had messed up and the previous "definitely not one of these" list for the BUT turned into the "definitely one of these" list(and thus making for some of the most precise guessing for the BUT after we had been put on the wrong path for so long). I remember a grand total of one guy even getting anywhere close to this rationale. Tying together the fact that each item Mat was given corresponded to his wishes. And if I remember right, the guy theorized that perhaps the Ashandarei protected against the True Power or something. Which was good reasoning, but still wrong. That all said, I don't think it was that big of a deal either. Not in the sense that I am dissapointed, but I found it to be one of the many satisfying reveals in this book, and not particularly more mindblowing then some. I think the reason Brandon seemed to hype it is simply because Brandon's favorite character is Mat! And Mat has all these cool doodads from the 'finn. Imagine Brandon's headslapper reaction when Mat's cool, signature weapon turned out to be more then just a cool way to give Mat a unique, badass weapon. Brandon's only, completely understandable, mistake here imho was expecting everyone to be quite as excited as he was when he first read about it.
  15. No, Tuon's word is not all we have to go on... Miraj knows what the "pure" form of the prophecies are(i.e, the current Seanchan version), and they are different then the current Randland version. It is not interpretation, it is different. Period. When you actually look at the facts, it is almost sad in how clearly the Seanchan have been manipulated. The prophecies were known in Seanchan even before Luthair Paendrag. But they were a corrupted version, supposedly. And we know that the propechies everyone has in Randland also predate even the formation of Seanchan....and they are also corrupted, supposedly. So by thier own logic two independent versions of the prophecies are the corrupt ones, and the Seanchan version is the "pure" one! And I would like to say again, that we have neither motive nor ability for people from Randland to corrupt these prophecies. They are largely a taboo subject about the rebirth of a dreaded figure that has broke and will break the world. What do they care if he kneels to the crystal throne(oh, and by the way, what's a crystal throne?)? Then Luthair(someone Ishy had ample oppurtunity to corrupt or at least influence) "consoladated" Seanchan and one of his actions was to bring a "pure" form of the prophecies. One gets the image of mass book burnings and putting scholars to death when reading that sentence. A consoladation is EXACTLY the kind of atmosphere that would provide both motive and means to eradicate the original form of the prophecies for a corrupt version. Again, we have niether means nor motive for the Randland or pre-Luthair Seanchan prophecies to be corrupted, we have both means and multiple possibile motives for the Luthair version of the prophecies to be corrupted. It should be pointed out that beyond any logical deductions, it seems a clear plot insertion by RJ for Miraj to even mention in his own head that before Luthair there was a supposedly corrupted version of the prophecies. This really strikes me as an intentional inclusion to clinch the fact that the current Seanchan version is the odd man out. And now, we have the result that the "pure" form of the prophecies is known to have at least one huge difference from the prophecies of Randland. Like I said, it's one of those "so obvious to everyone but the brainwashed beleivers" things that it's almost sad.
  16. I will leave the culling issue be since it's really too much speculation on either part. Do channelers need to be culled? Maybe, or maybe, as said, events don't have to happen the same each turning. Do channelers need to be culled so quickly? Maybe....but there may well be a lot of turning to go before we reach us again so it might dissapear in another way. Is what you suggesting even a way that the ability to channel would be completely eliminated. Maybe, but there is still much debate on what role genetics actually plays in the ability to channel. Too much speculation. However, on the matter of the Seanchan version being a corruption, I think there is little doubt. And your argument that "the Seanchan like to preserve old things" is just....bunk. The inhabitants of Randland have absolutely zero stake in corrupting the prophecies by eliminating a passage that says the Dragon Reborn will bow to the crystal thrown and inserting a passage that says he will bind the daughter of the 9 moons to serve him. Why? Well I can see 2 reasons... 1. The prophecies of the Dragon are not something that anyone really has a stake in. 2. Nobody in Randland has a farkin clue what the crystal throne or the daughter of the nine moons is! How could anyone corrupt the prophecies to glorify the Dragon when they don't know what the crystal thrown(to take out) or the daughter of the nine moons(to add in) is? However, on the flipside, we know at least 2 motivations for the Seanchan to corrupt the text, and they have an understanding of the terms to know what they actually mean..... 1. The Seanchan aren't really keen on the idea of thier all powerful empress being subservent to the Dragon. So they added a passage that fixed that. 2. I think this is more likely. We KNOW that Ishy had his mitts in on creating the Seanchan problem. His words in TGH(I beleive) was that he had Hawkwing send his armies across the ocean and doomed two fates. One was Hawkwing himself, and the other is happening now. I think many have assumed that the dooming was just the Seanchan throwing a wrench in the gears, but perhaps it's something even more expansive. Like what we saw in the ter'angreal. I understand the argument that people treat the Seanchan too harshly. Hell, just look at the expirience Avi had. It shows that the Aiel, often thought of as very "good" are really on a knife edge of spinning into something quite "bad". HOWEVER, you simply can not discount the fact that Ishy has his dirty little hands all over the Seanchan. He sent them over the ocean to, at the very least, play a foil in the Last Battle. He very likely setup the whole idea of women needing to be collared for the purpose of playing an effective foil not just on military, but idealological grounds. It is likely that he corrupted the prophecies to throw yet another wrench in allowing the prophecies of the Dragon to run thier correct course. The Seanchan are not evil, but even if you want to debate the morality of how they act, it is moot when you consider the larger issue of what they are is basically a tool of Ishy to ruin things for Rand. And with Avi's expirience, and our knowledge of how Ishy thinks, I still think it possible that a lot of what Ishy has done is planning ahead for yet another turning of the wheel. There is a lot of substance to the argument of just how ill-prepared the Light would be for the next Last Battle if you let the Seanchan run the world for the entire Age. By the by, from the FAQ, here is the relevant quote and then discussion of how/why the Seanchan prophecy is probably the corruption. If you want more relevant reading, look at stuff pertaining to Ishy's actions in his 40 years intervals of being free every 1,000 years. The Seanchan stink of Ishy tampering.
  17. There has been a lot of discussion about the characters that Brandon is doing right and wrong. I think Nyn is the perfect example of a character that Brandon has nailed, but even beyond that I think Brandon's writing style has made Nyn an even more likable character. There are times when I, and I think we all, really rip on the ones we love most. But it's the ones we care about the most that can get the most harsh treatment, and I think that has always been Nyn. But sometimes it came off too harsh, and I think Brandon's style has helped everyone to appreciate Nyn in a way that many of us have for a long time. I remember the scene in Knife of Dreams where the Sea Folk just made me want to vomit. Honestly, probably as bad as anything the White Cloaks(or any non-Shadow group) in all thier zealotry have ever done. When Birgitte had to force them to watch men being slaughtered by the BA....and the Sea Folk actually watched it because they weren't required to help by any Bargain....and EVENTUALLY felt compelled to help them. To me, this is why Nyn is such an amazing character....she is the EXACT opposite of that. In the WoT of such flawed characters, she is the one that would run onto a battlefield with no regard to her own life at all to save someone she didn't like just because she cares so much. That's the kind of thing that makes her such a great character....not just an ok one, or a relatable one, but an amazing one. And it's nice that even if it takes a little away from her prickly charm that Brandon writes her with a little less barb, it's nice that everyone gets to appreciate just how amazing she is. To be honest, until I read the thread I had kind of been down that Nyn got such a little part in ToM, but she definitely had her moments even if they were rare. I don't think it's a bad thing that she is Aes Sedai. Being part of an organization and having different views is a good thing. It adds a weight to your arguments that being "on the outside" could never do. By the by, to those of you saying Aes Sedai aren't planning remember the scene with Gareth Bryne when Gawyn went to ask on advice about women. At the very least we know that the armies of Tar Valon are in good hands and will be ready. It seems like a good bet that a lot of the sisters will be drawn into direct conflict in these battles. That was actually one of my favorite scenes. It's funny because characters like Alise and Sorilea are always mentioned as ruling by strength of character, but Bryne is probably one of the longest running ones in the series. Ever since the rebels snatched him up he has basically said, "I'm not gonna plot or scheme. This is the way things are, and I know what I am doing. If you don't like it, chop my head off". So funny watching Suian try to wiggle anything out of him, and him just being that boulder rolling down a hill he always is.
  18. First off I would like to say that the Avi scenes are some of the most amazing scenes written in the series. In plot and emotional impact. In coming out of left field(even though after TGS we probably should have put two and two together....Avi the ter'angreal reader going to a bigass ter'angreal....). It was just an amazing scene, and possibly the hardest I've ever found to actually read a piece of fiction. It was truely disconcerting to have the "goalpost" changed so completely from the DO, to realizing how the Last Battle really is just another beginning if Rand does win. I think I've heard both Jordan and Brandon were of the opinion that Rand's trip through the ter'angreal in The Shadow Rising was some of the best storytelling in the entire series, and I agree completely. I never would have imagined that that kind of thing could have been recaptured, but I think this scene did. Second off I think there is a real chance of this happening. In fact, I think it's exactly what will happen unless Avi does something. While this something may involve Rand, it will be up to Avi herself to make sure this future doesn't come to pass. Remember Rand telling Rodel that he could no longer really take a hand in the battles? This is the same kind of thing, I think. I was struck by just how much ToM seemed like the sequel to The Shadow Rising/The Fires of Heaven/Lord of Chaos that the other latter books really weren't. It settled the Perrin stuff that was put on hold almost completely since TSR. It capped off the Snakes and Foxes/Moiraine/Mat arc that was begun in TSR/tFoH. This is important because a line of the story that has kind of gotten buried under the books inbetween is that Avi was sent to Rand as a way to keep Rand attached to, and to understand the Aiel. I really do think this was a purposeful connection RJ was trying to make, and is important to the resolution of this arc. The reason this bothered me so much was because one of the undercurrents of ToM was that everyone was making substantial plans for what would happen AFTER the Last Battle. Perrin was planning for the future of the Two Rivers and all those attached to his rule. Elayne was planning for Andor and Cairien. Egwene was making great steps to unite all the channelers of the world. It wasn't just heartbreaking to see what happened to the Aiel, but to see that all of those plans were destroyed by the Seanchan. Some seem to think that this is a future not likely to happen, but the thing is that no promise or edict by Rand is going to prevent it. It is a bleak future that is LIKELY to happen. As rules are passed down from generation to generation, each caring less and less about the actions of thier great predecessors, petty bickering will make any ties to them seem meaningless. So yeah, promises or pacts are next to meaningless. What is substantial is to change the culture, or try to give the culture a nudge. As was made pretty obvious by the visions Avi needs to help the Aiel find a direction after the Last Battle. It's not surprising that thier way of life and culture could turn into something ugly without a firm direction. Does this include returning to the Way of the Leaf? I am not sure, it is hard to imagine that big of a leap. However, another thing is that on the Seanchan side of things, I think there are a couple things that definitely need to be changed. Obviously something needs to be done about the damane. It could be that the Seanchan were working through the internal strife that has been being subtly set up by returning sul'dam to them that can channel. Perhaps they were working towards freeing them. Cultural strife of that can take more then 17 years. Perhaps the fault of it lies in the Aiel attacking the Seanchan in this time of change, thus tipping the balance to the side that says damage must stay leashed(an outside threat is a great way to silence the "doves" of any country, as I think we've seen....). So yeah, the damane might not be something that needs Avi's actual attention. It may be something that is on it's course now, and Avi just needs to make sure the Aiel do not intervene at the wrong time and tip the Seanchan in the wrong direction. However, I think one thing that Avi may need to do is intervene in Rand kneeling before the Crystal Throne. Remember that it still seems likely that the Seanchan version of the prophesy is a tainted version that very well may have come straight from Ishy's lips. Rand, in his new piece of mind, may think that it is more prudent to kneel before the Crystal Throne as a way of getting Tuon on board. Afterall, his new found humility and piece of mind might say, what does it matter if he bows before her? He just needs to get her to help or not interfer in the Last Battle. I think this is a mistake that possibly only Avi can now point out to him. He should not bow to Tuon based on a bastardized version of prophecy. Now that she has traveling she may even retrieve the throne itself for Rand to bow before....so we're talking about him bowing because a likely ter'angreal that inspires worship in the empress(perhaps planted by Ishy himself as well). I do agree with others that this very well might be another instance of Ishy planning longterm. Rand can not afford to allow the Seanchan descendents to be of the mind that even the Dragon Reborn himself bowed before the empress. So yeah, I think this is Avi's problem to fix, but it does involve Rand. When she returns to him she needs to advise him against bowing before the Seanchan. Perhaps taking a harder line that prevents them from taking part in the Last Battle, but an agreement that at least keeps them from attacking until it is over. This itself may offer an oppurtunity to Tuon to, with the help of Mat, realize that she needs to make some good decisions on her own. Which could bring her to the side of the Light in a good way, instead of in the mindset that even the Dragon Reborn is her subject. And as we've already seen with Perrin, likely nothing is going to bring the Seanchan to respect Randlanders more then fighting alongside them. Perhaps seeing what channeling women can do in a battle without being chained up could be a positive influence. Another thing Avi needs to do is rather obvious. She needs to help the Aiel find a purpose after the Last Battle. Like I said, I am not sure what this will be. Finding the Way of the Leaf and the song may be it, but it's hard to imagine such a profound change. Perhaps the Aiel are meant to be there at Shayul Ghul when Rand attacks, and it's Avi's mission to get them to lay down thier spears and all find the song at that moment to help Rand seal the Bore the right way. This would give some explanation for why is matters that that Ogier not leave(I love Loial too, but right now it's not really seeming like some Ogiers in a battle are going to matter all that much). This kind of dramatic event I could see perhaps converting all the Aiel to the Way of the Leaf. Perhaps this is the way that things are "really" meant to go down, and the the reason most everyone seems to be dead after only 17 years is that a sealing without Avi's new direction would be a flawed sealing that leads to most dying. Guess we'll find out in a year and change....so fun to speculate!
  19. 1. The Shadow Rising - Best book in the series. Great plot, from big to small everything is riveting. Top it off with what I think is Jordan's best writing. The storytelling in the rings, the Aiel, the Battle for the Two Rives. Everything was just amazing. 2. The Gathering Storm - I really enjoyed Brandon's new style in the book. While others were nitpicking over what characters sounded exactly right, I just appreciated that Brandon brought such a fresh look at the series. His evident enthusiasm for writing the scenes as much as we enjoyed reading them alone made the book feel like one of the earlier books to me. Throw in that it resolved two of the biggest storylines in the series....pretty good book. 3. The Eye of the World - Like you said, and others will most likely say, it's hard to ignore the emotional attachment this book has. It's a much smaller scale, but also more intimate look at the characters. Still look forward to this one everytime I sit down to do a reread. 4. The Dragon Reborn - I love this book because of Perrin, and because it reminds me of just how amazing with plot Robert Jordan was. Still funny to think that all(or at least most!) of us thought Ishy was the Dark One for the firs three books! 5. Lord of Chaos - I don't enjoy this one quiiiite as much as others seem to, but there's no denying it's greatness. 6. Knife of Dreams - Wrapping up two of the more boring plotlines was nice(Elayne's arch actually drew to a more enjoyable close then I thought possible). But that was just secondary to the book really making you feel like the series was moving forward again. Like TG had begun. 7. The Fires of Heaven - Not as big a fan of this as others. It always gets stuck in my mind as "that book with the circus between TSR and LoC :p ). But it's definately still a good one. 8. The Great Hunt - I put this one this low not because it's not a good book. The first time I read it, it was a very good action packed novel, but it always seems to be the place my rereads bog down. It's one of the lesser enjoyable novels when it comes to rereads. 9. A Crown of Swords - Most notably for introducing Cads! Just reread the novel and I enjoyed it 10. Winter's Heart - Getting ready to reread this, been so long I can't even so much about this book. 11. Crossroads of Twilight - I enjoyed this one a little more then some. Not terribly interesting plot-wise, but I enjoyed how all the **** really hits the fan in this one. All of the endgame weather and other disruptions started in this novel, and made for a very eerie feel, which I liked. 12. The Path of Daggers: You know, I've been saying that the wait for the later novels is what made them less popular. And that while they are not as good as the first, rereading them makes you appreciate them more. All rereading tPoD has done is made me change my opinion from "worst in the series" to "It never should have been a book at all". The bulk of the first 300 pages should have been at the end of aCoS, and Rand's failed attempt to repel the Seanchan would have made for a better prelude to his success at the Cleansing. Edit: Oh, and obviously I haven't read ToM yet. Still waiting for my copy....burn you all!
  20. Hit or miss.... tEotW: Horrible. As bad as LoC's cover in the romance novel look. Looks like the book should be called Tempest of the Heart or something TGH: The actual art is alright, and this one is even better cause it gives you an even more intense view of essentially the same scene. TDR: The paperback is much better. I can appreciate lowkey, but for a novel that pretty much wrapped up the original trilogy, the paperback captures the cumminating moment well. TSR: Both are good. I guess the E-book is good for Mat fans since that's as cool a coverart as we've seen for a character. If they want my vote they should have shown the small Two Rivers forces aligned against a huge Trollic army. tFoH: Better, especially for fans. The original coverart is pretty forgetable. For fans, this coverart is obviously one that fits the book. LoC: Very cool, though it would have taken much to beat the old art.... aCoS: Both are meh....am I missing something. I just reread the book and I don't even know what that new art is referring to in the novel? tPoD: The original was pretty good, but that one is even better. Decent event in the book, but it's very nicely portrayed. WH: Hard to say. I like Perrin & co. on the old cover, but it does make much more sense to give Perrin the cover of 10 and Rand the cover of 9. If they had made it a little more Cleansing-centric I think it would have been a better Rand cover. CoT: Ah, very nice. Now that's how ya do a lowkey coverart. Definitely better then the original. KoD: The old art was like TFoH, LoC, or aCoS. Very meh, and almost anything would be better. And that's definitely better. Just my 2 cents.
  21. lol, i got paid more this week surprisingly hence why i was umming and ahhhing about going down in the morning to get a copy :D and money doesn't concern me so much, (am a poor ass uni student) once lived on peanut butter and steak sandwiches just so i could buy Kingdom Hearts 2 :D (ToM currently ranks more important than finishing The Way of Kings) I am in kind of the same boat as you. I pre-order video games on Amazon now because they have such rediculously good service(release day delivery and usually a 10 dollar gift card to boot) so I decided to pre-order ToM from them because I have to drive about 30 minutes to get to anywhere that would have ToM on release day. Unfortunately, Amazon's, not quite as good on books. Release day shipping for ToM was literally going to double the price tag so I went with SSS and got the 4-7 day shipping. Luckily that means next Monday at the latest, and most likely Thursday or Friday since Amazon almost always gets it here faster then thier estimates. Dunno if I could stand waiting a week and a half though, man. If moneys not an issue I'd go out and get the book. Is it too late to cancel your pre-order?
  22. o my god this is so funny "on, cue the wetworks" haha its awesome That was so awsome And in honor of the upcoming Operation Save Moiraine here are a few 'Finn themed LOLCatz....
  23. They may not have been huge characters, but both Ingtar and Verin's deaths were genuinely touching. Don't see how anyone could downplay thier sacrifices. Especially Verin's...nothing minor about her contribution to fandom or the plot. Over a decade of discussing Verinisms and we get an explanation like that, that culminates in that sacrifice as well as single handedly nearly crippling the Black Ajah. What about that is minor? The others bolded were all rather sad as well. You can add Anaiya, Adelas, and Sheriam to the list. I know the last was Black, but I think most of us came to pity her more then anything as we saw the few scenes of what she was going through. List of people who are going to die(again, not exaustive but off the top of my head)...... Lan Cadsuane Both Bashere's probably Rand Moiraine(possibly) Thom, Olver, and/or Noal Don't worry, not a single one of the main forces(by which I don't count Seanchan, Whitecloaks, or Masema's men) have truly lost a battle. That's not going to happen during Tarmon Gaiden. It's going to be a bloodbath. Rereading some of the books is making me cringe, actually. Mat and Perrin's men follow them so faithfully, and both have been very lucky with thier forces. I worry that they, and many others, are going to have a lot bloodier time come ToM and aMoL.
  24. dwn covered it pretty well. It's funny, I remember when The Gathering Storm first came out, people cited that scene a lot as an example of Brandon "not getting Cadsuane right" but I think it was definitely a case of some people and thier tendency to allow thier attachment to Rand as the main character cloud thier idea of just what he is capable of. He was high and half mad on the True Power....the reason that Cads was near speechless and said "yes" when Rand asked her if she beleived she would die if Rand willed it was because Rand believed it, and Cads beleived it, and it very well might have been true. But most importantly of all, Cads beleived it because at that moment, Rand wanted a reason to kill her. Why would an apology have been a bad idea? Well, just look at Tam! It's not like Rand had a particularly good reason to near balefire his own father either. If Cads had tried to apologize, in as much as Rand would have needed even a half coherent excuse to kill her, he would have seen it as her trying another angle to wiggle her way into his good graces.
  25. I agree with you to a small degree about overstating the negatives and and ignorant behavior of characters. Rand, Perrin, Egwene, Elayne, and Nyn(though mostly trivial) can have annoying moments. However, you are overexaggerating in this regard. Logain, Loiol, Dobraine, and Dyelin at the very least are examples of characters making selfless decisions for the good of everyone. I really do agree with you about some things....but I still think you are dead wrong about Cads. Yes, it would have killed her to do that. Rand wanted to kill Cadsuane at that moment. Whether it was the True Power clouding his mind, his pent up frustration at Cads, or his disgust with himself and general deadening due to what he had almost done to Min...he wanted an excuse to kill Cads. Her apologizing probably would have given him an excuse in that moment. I don't get what you mean about similarities. Why should she alter her behavior? If you mean she should have seen that Semi could escape and devine where Cads had hidden an object that I don't beleive Semi should have even known she had....I don't think you can blame that on Cads. It seems like the only faults you guys can find with her is that she's not quite smart enough to anticipate every single action/reaction possible in the universe! Oh, and if you mean that Cads should have changed her image because it was similiar to Semi's? Not at all. Everyone from teachers to the president to dictators use certain images of authority to lead. That doesn't mean just because one does something horrible with that ability another shouldn't use it for positive things.
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