45 minutes ago, DigificWriter said:

 

3) The Aes Sedai rejecting a female Channeler (the Wisdom who raised and trained Nynaeve) instead of training her

I think this is shown to be a mistruth in the series.  It is shown that Siuan came from that same type of background as the old Wisdom and she was was allowed to join the tower.  I believe this will turn out to be a case where we will find out that the old Wisdom was rejected for a different reason and told this story to Nynaeve to possibly save herself from embarrassment.

7 minutes ago, Samt said:

If you look at it from the perspective of two alternate realities, then I guess that makes sense.  I'm just saying that from a story telling perspective the characters are completely different.  It's only that they have the same name that we are even comparing them.  

Well it has been said to take the show as another turning of the wheel.  Mostly the same events with some different Details?

And how are the characters completely different?  Perrin is still a large man who his dealing with some serious issues with the nature of violence.  Rand is still a love sick sap who is destined to destroy/save the world.  Mat is still a character who struggles with doing the right thing verses the easy thing.  There are details of their characters that are different but the characters themselves are largely the same.

58 minutes ago, Samt said:

Frankly, saying that Laila is in the books is like saying that Stepin and Kerene are in the books.  It's technically true that there is a book character with that name that has a similar background to the show character.  But the position in the narrative is ultimately so different that it's a bit silly to say they are the same character.  

I would say that situation that Perrin and Laila have in the show actually makes alot of sense when compared to the books. 

In the books the Boys leave EF when they are late 18 early 19, in the show they leave when they are 20.  Perrin remarks that if he had stayed in EF he would have likely married Laila.  Well considering they stay an extra year+ the events turned out as Perrin had speculated.

Even Laila's switch from farm wife to Blacksmith can logically follow that way of thinking.  Getting together with Perrin allowed her to learn a new trade.

37 minutes ago, Mailman said:

does not explain why they only sent 1 trolloc.

Still an armed blade master that cant take out 1 trolloc.

Why send dozens of Trollocs to attack 2 farmers?  Especially when they have 4 others they need to grab in a Village full of people.

50 minutes ago, Mailman said:

I'm sorry buts that just rubbish. This tired excuse about limits on CGI and practical effects is nothing but deflection. They gave the greenlight to release the show and are responsible for the finished product and that is what they are being judged on. If the finished product that they released to the public looks like crap the buck stops with the production.

 

You cannot explain away the inworld story with the practical shortcomings of the production department. It makes no sense that only 1 trolloc would have been sent to the al'thor farm.

 

That fight in the show gives us nothing like the fight in the books.  Tam kills multiple trollocs in the book fight in the show he is unable to kill one when he is only facing a 1vs1. 

 

He is a blademaster that hasn't picked up the sword in 20 years.  He holds his own better than most of the TR folk but then loses in close quarters.  That seems fairly reasonable. 

45 minutes ago, WhiteVeils said:

We don't know yet in the series that Tam even is a Blademaster.  We don't know how long it's been since he fought, and he was being directly targeted by the attack and was being overpowered.  Non-Readers remarked right away how skilled he looked compared to the other villagers.  His ending up wounded and Rand killing a Trolloc in that fight matches up with the books.

As for why only one: Because the trollocs used practical effects: Stuntmen on stilts.  A stuntman on stilts with a weapon in a sword vs sword combat within a set built like a small farmhouse with furniture and three combatants is incredibly difficult and dangerous to film as is (as you'd know if you did any stagefighting at all).  It would be very very much more difficult if there were multiple trollocs in the fight, or even trolloc bodies on the floor.  And  it would take more time. Time in the first episode was at a premium...they needed every second. That one trolloc fight told us everything we needed to know and did everything the books needed from it:  Tam has a cool sword. Tam fights way better than a two rivers man. Rand killed a Trolloc. Tam gets badly hurt.  The Trolloc gets killed and Rand manages to escape into the night pulling the heavily wounded Tam. There is nothing in that it doesn't need, and everything it does.  Fighting any more trollocs is just wasted time in a very dangerous rig.
 

Nynaeve clearly only defeated the trolloc because she took him by surprise.  That was a 1 on 1 fight in a larger space, and gave her a badass moment. 
 

Happened in the books.  In the books, Moiraine was able to detect Nynaeve sneaking up on Lan in the equivalent scene, because she could sense the ability to channel.  Lan was surprised.  Not a change.

Lan was interpreted by Rand, who is not the best judge of emotions, for starters. And in the series, much of the time Lan was very stoic and not radiating much emotion, but being very subtle about it.  Slight turns of the head, etc, do show much larger emotions.  However, in the show we see Lan through Moiraine and Nynaeve's POV, and neither of them see Lan as at all emotionless.  They both know he has profound and deep emotions, and they both have had those emotions expressed to them.  
Look at the times in the show when Lan is showing emotion.  Is Rand there? This is POV.
 

That scene showed the Whitecloaks are not a monolithic organization with all one point of view. We don't know how close Valda and Bornhald is...their relationship has not been explained yet. We see that Bornhold has some distaste for Valda, but is forced to comply with him as one of the Questioners.  And Valda does not just seize Moiraine et al even though it's clear he suspects them strongly...he doesn't dare make a direct accusation with Bornhold there.  And because of how Bornhold answers, we know that not all Whitecloaks kill Aes Sedai...that some just try to avoid them. And we know that it is unlikely that Bornhold knows the extent of Valda's activities.  This isn't a writing error....this one line tells us a huge amount about the Whitecloak command structure and opinions of the world.   This will play out in different seasons.

Just because you think something is a mistake doesn't mean it is. You may just not realize the reason for that change or way something is done.

Well said, I understand the fatigue that sets in when you feel you have to respond to these same sets of questions every few months.  It does take its toll.

Thank you for the well articulated responses.

4 hours ago, DreadLord31 said:

So skipping book 3, the Dragon Reborn, for the most part in your opinion? No Stone of Tear battle? 

 

I guess Egwene already "healed death" (and it was a good thing?) ... So Mo doesn't have to scold Rand about how evil that is! 

 

Seriously, that was the part of the Finale that I just threw up my hands and went, "you've got to be kidding me". The writers, directors, show-runner, consultants - I lost all faith in them - 

 

Hopefully S2 steps it up!

 

@WhiteVeils do you think we'll get Callandor at some point in S3 or not at all?

They are certainly merging storylines from book 2 and 3.  I imagine storylines from both will be cut or moved around.  I personally don't think we will get Callandor or tear until season 4.  Others think we will get it in the back half of season 2.

59 minutes ago, Mailman said:

Just looking at the seachan photo is that a veil on the middle woman so could it be Tuon? 

On the Dusty Wheel livestream Sarah Nakamura wouldn't comment on people's guesses as to whom it wass but did say it was not Tuon. 

My assumption is Suroth and Fares Fares will be taking the place of Fain as Fain will be integrating himself with the Whitecloaks.

1 hour ago, king of nowhere said:

the episodes of season 1 are included in the list.

in fact, that's too few names - only 14, which would imply 6 episodes for season 2.

mind you, if they are 6 episodes 90 minutes long, we're still gaining. If, instead, those meddling executives decided to cut by 25% the already inadequate screen time, the quality of the show can only take a turn downward

8 episodes for season 2 and 3 are confirmed.  Season 4 and beyond are the ones at risk.

I cannot speak as to why this list is missing episodes but we don't fully know how they are catalogued aside from the date the scripts were submitted.

23 hours ago, RextheDog said:

just watched a rewatch of the series over the last few nights....

 

anyone think maybe Perrin is attracted to Rand;

 

1. challenges Rand to treat Eggy better which at first glance is some kind of hint that he likes Eggy....but...what if he were upset and Rands aloofness, based on his own feelings

2. in that scene he clearly states that Laila was 'the only women i ever loved'

3. later in same episode he confirms with Eggy that he loves Rand.... its the same episode which got me thinking, it could be bad writing, but he commits his love for Rand and denies his love for Eggy in two very close scenes. so it could be he is refering to something greater than a platonic love interest

 

my original thought would be it would ruin the story a bit, but on reflection, if its done right, and his love for Faile is chanelled into his love for Rand, and it means one less character with one less side story (the recapture of Faile and the whole horn stuff at thge last book, it really could work if done with a sensitive nod to the original character 

 

as in Perrin doesnt really need to change his character ARC significantly, we know he is driven by love and loyalty to one specific person....

This was my original theory, which would have made the arguement in episode 7(in my opinion) a little clever.  Having Perrin be bi wouldn't really affect the story going forward.

But someone on these forms pointed it out to me that during the Machin Shin scene Perrin hears "You killed your wife because you loved another woman".

But as we often do with these books I just made it my own head cannon.

30 minutes ago, WhiteVeils said:

Myra Syal was confirmed cast as Verin Mathwin in S2 for Wheel of Time
THE WHEEL OF TIME Confirms Meera Syal Is Playing Verin - Nerdist

And at the BAFTA Awards ceremony they had a clip of her in costume:

Oh wow, what a still!  She absolutely looks the part.

Rafe did say the Wigs ended up being a surprising over cost.

As much as I love the show I will certainly say Amazon has dropped the ball when it comes to marketing and merchandise.  It is kind of embarrassing at this point.

Please keep us updated on your purchase journey.

29 minutes ago, Mailman said:

WTF was that Sheriam (Rima) video.

 

Sounds like an expansion on the white tower stuff with the girls.

 

I'm not sure about the set behind him?

I got a few chuckles out of the Rima video, certainly caught me by surprise.

I think the room might be the White Tower basement where novices are raised.  Other people are speculated the Stone of Tear.  Who Knows!

This is the public release of the video from JordanCon

Castings for Bain, Chiad, Dain Bornhald, Sheriam.

Scenes that I was sad to miss

• Rand's post channeling giddiness on the boat
• Fade stalking the boys before winternight
• Mat speaking the Old Tongue as he runs into battle.
• Perrin/Egwene/Elyas' flight from the Ravens
• Rand's introduction to Elyane, Gawyn and Galad.  I am hoping we will get a variation of this in S2
• Rand being confronted by Elaida
• The Green Man in general

New Scenes that I loved to witness

• Battle of Winternight
• Mat and Perrin talking at Shadar Logoth
• Everything Valda
• All of Lan and Nynaeve's scenes together
• Dana in general
• Thom reimaging
• Mat and Thom burying the Aiel
• Ila's monologue, this one scene made me care more about the tinkers than all the books.
• All the Logain stuff
• The Suian and Bloodsnow openers
• I liked Stepin, sue me
• The night around the Warders Fire
• I preferred show Ishammael over the insane Pre-Moridin Ishammael

1 hour ago, WoTwasThat said:

No offense, truly, but you sound like you’re making devil’s advocate arguments at this point. This is weak sauce. 
 

1. It does not matter whether an animated short is “cannon” or not. Only weird ubernerds care about “cannon.”  If you have to point to an animated clip to explain a core concept that you completely butchered in eight hours of showtime, that’s crap storytelling. Period.

 

2. There were plenty of scenes featuring scads of actors. There is absolutely no factual basis for the argument that Covid is why Rand and Mo set off alone into the Blight. Or for any of the other truly terrible plot decisions throughout the series. To my recollection, Covid protocols have only officially been offered as an excuse for one crappy scene with the Shienarans defending the wall.

 

3. I don’t think it’s reasonable to criticize people for noticing the clear LGBTQ+ agenda that is deliberately peppered throughout the show. This is classic face-tattoo syndrome. “Why are you looking at my face tattoo? Because you have a face tattoo.” (I.e. being mad at people for noticing something you wanted people to notice.)

1. What Sinister is saying, I believe, is that they writers chose to not introduce certain world building aspects in season 1 as there is a better time for that in season 2(we presume).  But for the "ubernerds" who want that world building immediately they chose to have a series of animated shorts that do that expansion immediately.

2. Covid dictated the way many of the season in the final 2 episodes were shot.  No one has said that Moiraine and Rand going to the blight alone was because of covid.  But it has been mentioned that was written the way it was to spread hero moments to other characters instead of having them stand around and do nothing. Althought that is kinda what Perrins moment became, who knows what we would have saw if they hadn't lost an actor.

3. So the fact that there are LGBTQ+ characters in the show, 1 pair(that actually had a relationship in the books), a Green Aes Sedai and her 2 two warders being in a relationship(which is something that happens in the books if not explicitly the same dynamic) plus a mention from Dana assuming Mat and Rand were together.  This is worth your time to criticize?

I am off the belief that the show didn't explain much about the One power or the differences between the two halves because it is not important for season 1 of the show.

BUT I fully expect season 2 of the show to begin exploring these differences as we see Egwene and the rest start training in the tower, hopefully split with Rand trying practice blindly.

I could be very wrong but it makes logical sense to my brain to do it that way.

51 minutes ago, SilentRoamer said:

At no point in any of the books, doe any of the characters think the Dragon reborn could be a man. You can do mental gymnastics about us not having access to all of the prophecies and a lack of information etc. but that particular plot point was added, without any good reason and made absolutely no sense.

 

Why would Moraine bring a male 'angreal? Why would the prophecies be all about a man? Why would the items in the prophecies (such as Callandor) channel Saidin? It seems obvious to me that RJ never intended the gender of the Dragin to be in question - this is modern day politics making its way into Fantasy. 

 

A good reason for the change was to ensure the ensemble status of the cast and of course because It was about them all.

Moiraine was covering her bases when she decided to bring the Sa'angreal. If the Dragon turned out to be a woman she could be trained/guided/circled and just generally helped.  If the Dragon turned out to be man they would need to rely on brute force.  Which might even be a neat reference to the differences between channeling Saidar and Saidin.

7 hours ago, SilentRoamer said:

 

Ok - so are the showrunners going to disregard the Karetheon Cycle along with all of the other nations prophecies? 

 

How does the Dragon potentially being a woman and a channeler of Saidar even makes any sense whatsoever in RJ's story? 

 

You can handwave away plenty of my other points but this one is literally ridiculous. It was just an attempt to modernise the show and insert diversity and equity rubbish into a fantasy show about a MAN whose soul is reborn and who is destined to die and either break or remake the world. 

 

I don't know why people defend this point so passionately - RJ NEVER intended for anyone to believe the Dragon could be a woman and could channel Saidar, it literally works against the Binary themes RJ was so fond of. 

 

I'm going to give the show one last chance in S2 - but honestly they have to work hard to get this show back on track imo. Otherwise its just another beloved thing ruined by people who never loved it to begin with. 

The thing you have to remember is that the Dragon was never going to be female in the show.  The angle the writers were using was that information is not perfect.  After 3000 years of translating and re-translating, somewhat, vague prophecies the gender of the Dragon reborn was not a 100% certainty.  Remember that the characters in the world don't have a manual about how this stuff works.. 

If I recall correctly people feared the idea of the Dragon because he was prophesied to break the world again.  I don't think the Taint was specified as the reason.  Now people in the world assumed he would break the world because of the Taint but that isn't how Rand broke the world at all.

People making imperfect assumptions based on the information, coloured by the bias, they have is kinda a key theme to RJ's Wheel of Time.

15 hours ago, Sabio said:

I just don't see how 8 episodes will be enough especially if they will be combining multiple books.  I also think the longer it takes to get a season out the worse it's going to be for the series.  Many casual fans may have even forgotten about the series by now.

It is likely less about combining 2 different books and more merging.  Taking certain plot points/arcs from each book and cutting the rest.  We were never getting 14 seasons to begin with so this is just how it is going to be.  R2J2 says season 3 will be mostly Book 4 and then in theory we will see more merging for the following seasons.

And while it is not fun waiting this long for season 2 some other shows have been able to manage it.  Hopefully they actually have a decent marketing budget this time to help make up for the wait.

28 minutes ago, WhiteVeils said:

Lanfear is going to be played by an actor, just like every other character in the show.  No person will be able to match up to 'most beautiful woman alive', so there will be people who complain that the actor who plays her isn't attractive enough.  <shrug>

Particularly when "attractive" is sooooooo subjective.

2 hours ago, Cipher said:

So it seems Season 3 will contain:

  Reveal hidden contents

The Battle of EF, I imagine the red twisted ter'angreal, and the journey to The Waste and Rhuidean.  Will there be room for Tanchico and the revolution of the WT?

 

That is the question isn't it?  Here's hoping Amazon loosens their 8 episode/55 minute mandates.  We know we are suppose to be getting longer episodes in season 2 just don't know how substantial it will be.

1 hour ago, Cipher said:

It starts in Emonds Field, which is supposed to be an isolated rural community where the blood of Manetheron runs deep. Should generally be of same ethnicity and they come into the wide world of differnces in their travels. The people of EF have puritan-like values which is revealed in Nynaeve's character who is an authority figure and comes across like a know-it-all church marm--condemning people for their speech and dress. The 2 Rivers in the show doesn't come across like that at all.

In the show:

-Blademasters can't fight off a trolloc while Wisdoms can kill them on 2 different occassions with a dagger.

-One Source of magic rather than the binary.

-Rage healing--in the books it is a complex weave that only few channelers can manage.

-Cry healing

-Gaidin aren't stone hard men devoted to their cause of protecting their Aes Sedai, but rather regular guys who get wrapped up in sexual relationships.

-Aes Sedai don't become despondent and boderline suicidal when their Gaidin die.

-Sheinarans are incompetent guardians of the blight.

-The white cloaks don't even dress correctly.  Should be suits of armor with white talbards and cloaks.  The clothes were good for Valda, but not the troops.

 

Not this race stuff again.  There is no reason why EF cann't be as diverse it is in the show.  Check out Daniel Greene's and Mat Hatch's video on the subject.  But even in the text of the books it describes Cenn Buie as dark as an old root.  Egwene as having the same dark colour as her hair and even though she is described as pale in another book you can still have dark colouring and still be pale.

But yes, the Two Rivers in general has lost their extremely puritan status, I don't think this is going to have any effect on the story.

Blademasters;  You mean when Lan takes on a dozen or so Trollocs while Moiraine is channeling?  Or are you referring to Tam who is 20 years out of practice but manages to hold his own and was clearly winning until the Trolloc used his large stature and Tam's lack of room to Maneuver to win?  As for Nynaeve's first kill she got to get a solid sneak attack that luckily was a death blow otherwise the Trolloc wouldn't have let go as it dragged her into the pool.  I wouldn't count luck as the trait of a great warrior unless we are talking about Mat.  I am afraid I don't remember Nynaeve killing a second Trolloc so you will have to remind me.

The One Power is still clearly binary, while it wasn't addressed in season 1 I imagine they will bring it up during Egwene's/Nynaeve's training probably intersecting with Rand struggling alone.  The Origin shorts are considered canon and clearly address the dual nature of the source as well as Latra Posae Decume using the word Saidin in her conversation with LTT.  And yes I wish they would have had Moiraine respond with "I cannot teach you to channel as a Bird could not teach a fish to fly" when Rand asked to be trained, but the lack of said response does not mean the Source is not split.

Rage Healing;  Not sure which books you have been reading as Nynaeve had been healing unconsciously for years and her trigger would often be anger.

Cry Healing;  While poorly executed due to unfortunate circumstances we see plenty of channelers discover weaves they didn't know they could do. I don't believe this particular example will become an issue in the future.

Gaidin;  In the books, for the longest time, the only example we have of a warder is Lan.... from the PoV of mostly Lan.  Lan continues to be a stoic badass, particularly in front of the e5.  In private with Moiraine I would expect for him to be a bit more open.  As for Stepin, Maksim and Ivhon out of any warders I would think the Green Warders would have a more open personality.

"-Aes Sedai don't become despondent and borderline suicidal when their Gaidin die."  I am not sure which side you are arguing here.  I don't think we see an Aes Sedai lose their warder in the show during season 1 but in the books we know both from Alanna, Suian and Leane that losing a warder is an extremely painful process.

Sheinarans;  How are they incompetent in guarding the blight?  They lost guarding the pass in the show, they had nearly lost the battle in the books except for the timely intervention of a Deus ex Rand.  Or are you referring to Agelmar's initial attitude towards Moiraine?  While it is a change from the book once Moiraine announces her actual intention Agelmar apologizes and becomes a gracious host.

The Whitecloaks;  Yes, the Whitecloaks general look has some differences.  Instead of generic Knights Templar they dressed them more as Warrior Monks.  And while that band of Whitecloaks didn't have full armour while traveling around the woods we know that they will have armour when charging into battle for season 2.  The fullplate and chain look from the books is quite heavy and taxing on the horses unless you really need it.

I believe most of these details to be fairly minor in the grand scheme of the world of The Wheel of Time, if they are infact issues at all. The biggest change they made to the World was 2 changes to saidar, being able to be burnt out while linking and saidar users not being able to detect one another without actively channeling.

1 hour ago, Cipher said:

The world of WoT TV is not the same world as WoT books.

In what ways is it not the same world?