12 minutes ago, Maximillion said:

Rotton Tomato ratings are 65% from critics (53% from top critics)

Audience rating is 82%

 

Not great scores.

 

Will be fascinating to see how many viewers tune in again next week.   

A lot of the critic scores that are negative skew towards the "it's LOTR!" "IT's NOT GOT". A lot of  the Audience scores that are negative are "IT"S NOT THE BOOK!" 

So we shall see. I do think the criticism on pacing will be a concern and it's somethign that they have to fixe in season 2/3. 

That said, all Season 1 has to do is stay watchable in the 80 percent range to guarantee a season 3. A lot of shows have rocky Season 1s. Season 2 will determine the future of the series. 

2 minutes ago, Apoc81 said:

I like Lan a lot actually. He's very much how I imagined him. I also love how fiery Nynaeve is. And I think Pike is an incredible actress, who does a great job, but honestly she looks too old for the beautiful  nearly perfect, short, blue dressed witch of my imagination. But thats my own bias  so I try not to judge her on it. My Moraine was always closer to a Lauren Cohan or Vanessa Hudgens.

I think my issue with Lan is less t he actor and more the script. He didn't really have any interactions with the EF5 and I wouldn't have had it him announce himself in a tavern. He should've been quiet in a corner...awaiting threats. More Strider-esque. 

3 minutes ago, Apoc81 said:

I like him, I like Egwene and Nynaeve, and I think Perrin could be great once we see deeper into his character.

Mat was the only flop for me.

Lan left me a little underwhelmed but not terrible. 

5 minutes ago, caemlyncal said:

I started watching this going in with the mindset that they are not just tailoring things to the people that have read the books. If you are so selfish that you thought they were going to make things in your perfect vision and cant accept it for what it is then so be it. That being said I loved episode 1, I understand the reason for quickly pacing things as they know they need to captivate everyone. The show is a bit choppy at times but I am loving episode 1, I watched it last night after the football game and may have had about as many drinks as the Patriots did points so I'm currently re-watching to see what I missed. Would love to hear peoples thoughts regarding the stature/image of the characters as I am really loving the calm yet cheeky demeanor Rand portrays.

Josha  really killed it as Rand in my mind. Was my favorite character among the show. 

I'm in the like category but have serious issues with the pacing. If they fix the pacing, this can move into top tier quality. 

2 minutes ago, Meskell said:

Don’t get me wrong, magic being portrayed on tv or film is normally terrible. Mainly looking at Harry Potter using sparks as a substitute for creativity. 
 

I think I just pictured something more ‘solid’ than what is shown.

Agreed on magic in general.

And that's really fascinating to me because my mental picture of the weaves were even more wispy than what we got in the show. Funny how different people visualize differently. 

1 minute ago, Meskell said:

 

I do have a huge problem with the channeling though. It just looks so cheap and I am struggling to picture how it will be scaled up for the larger battles. 
 

 

This is really interesting to me. Because both I (book fan) and wife (never touched the books) were absolutely wowed by the one power scene. Felt like it was the best rendition of magic we've seen on television or film. (Maybe Doctor Strange beats it out, but aside from that...)

So. After recovering from an epic watch through. Here are my thoughts. My TLDR: 7.5 out of 10 for first 3 episodes.

Loved

-Josha as Rand. Of the younger actors, he nailed the character the best. Absolutely loved every scene with him and, of the characters, I felt he was most true to his book counterpart. I can easily see him carrying this show. He just has a natural charisma and presence that I can see covering the full range of who Rand is.

-Trollocs: I actually loved their design and how visceral they felt. Very terrifying.

-The One Power: Boom. I literally teared up as moraine devastated the Trollocs. The fight scene itself could've been done better, but the One Power made up for all of that. Probably best scene of magic I've ever seen on television.

-Thom. I actually really loved this version of Thom. The way he carried himself was just so on point.

Liked

-All the characters but Mat. 

-Beautiful scenery and vistas.

-Manetheren!

-Subtlety of Moraine and Nynaeve

Disliked

-Mat. He lacks all of the heart from the original character. Idk. I'm actually happy we're getting an actor change. Maybe he can bring the gravitas to Mat's character.

-The Tinkers: They lacked  the color I would've expected. Not bad...but kinda stilted.

Hated

-The pacing. I hope future seasons have more like 10-12 episodes. 8 episodes is entirely too short. There were so many moments that could have added to the depth of the show like: Lan training Rand on the road. Moraine speaking with all of the 4 before the trolloc attack. etc. They really need more episodes in the season.  I'll just also add, this actually isn't necessarily a bad thing because it means I want more of the show. I want more of these characters. I want more epic one power scenes. Ultimately, the fact that pacing is an issue is a testament to the quality we do have. I just want more of it. 

I teared up during the one power scene.

seeing it on screen was just so powerful and all the feels.

All in all I give the show a 7.5 at the moment. Pacing is an issue and I take off .1 for not having Lan train Rand on the road but all in all very pleased. 
 

Wife loved it too.

Working til 5est. Grabbing a pizza from the local mom and pop place and then doing homework with the wife until the show is on ?

It’s really bizarre that there is no official times released from WOT Twitter 

31 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

 

Saidar and saidin mentioned by Rosamund and Rafe and women can't teach men. Boom.

BOOM!

Removed a lot of my concerns. 

On a humorous note...

Some of these reviews have no clue. 

https://ew.com/tv/tv-reviews/amazon-the-wheel-of-time/

Tell me you don't know the source material without telling me you don't know the source material

5 minutes ago, themann1086 said:

As of this post, S1 has a nice 69% fresh rating on Rotten Tomatoes (out of 13 reviews). The critics have seen the first 6 episodes whereas I've only seen 2. And episodes 7 and 8 continue to be shrouded in mystery...

Nice.

?

5 minutes ago, Skipp said:

The difference being that we should see a slow descent of Rand's madness rather than the abrupt change in Daeny's character

8 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

He kinda is at his darkest moments though he does what he (thinks he) has to. He's definitely not a typical hero

Very true. I just would prefer the execution be less GoT Season 8 with Daenaerys going crazy.

Edit: @Elder haman Great minds....

30 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

I truly think this change was made for only one reason - to preserve the narrative tension between Rand and Egwene until Veins of Gold. And the more I think about it, the better it feels.

 

I also truly believe that the actual impact on the show will be minimal. Prophecies about the Dragon siding with the Dark One will be emphasized alongside non-gendered prophecies about the triumph of the Light. 

 

Otherwise, I don't think the gender of souls will ever be mentioned in the show at all. It is being used merely as a mechanism to elevate Egwene's arc to be a sort of counter-point to Rand's (which it is in the books anyway). But whereas in the books we knew that Rand would ultimately prevail, the show will lean into not knowing. 

 

As for the implications on the existence of trans people. It seems like trans people could exist in the world without trans channelers. That would entirely eliminate the metaphysical problem. And you just discard Halima, whom no one will miss anyway.

 

As I look at it from this perspective, the change appears inspired.

This is absolutely what I'm hoping for and that they nail the execution. 

I don't like the changes, but I can accept them if this is how they go about it and if the actors are able to nail it. I just hope they don't lean too much into Rand being a villain. 

11 minutes ago, Agitel said:

but will probably have minimal impact on character and plot arcs.

 

This is all getting speculative, though.

Honestly this is my hope.

I'm hoping that the thing we've spent hours and forums pages on just turns out to be....irrelevant and it's never really mentioned in the show. We still get the great story beats and characterizations of our protagonists, but no sermonizing or deep dives into this metaphysical lore. 

@SinisterDeath This is not debating in good faith. You're engaging in ad hominem attacks and attacking the proponents of such views rather than the view itself. 

I could go line by line rebutting you, but until you show you're willing to debate in good faith..there is no point. At every point on this board that I've seen you engage with someone, it has been with snide undertones and little desire to actually understand the opposing viewpoint.

I respect that you have different views on these matters even if I disagree, but I don't call those who hold your opinion names or insinuate that only those with weaker moral character hold such views and so they can be dismissed.

So yeah. agree to disagree but just know that I won't be responding to your replies unless it's in your capacity as a moderator. No disrespect meant. 

Y'all are missing the point I think Wraith is making.

The point is that these IPs had updates/reboots etc. that large portions of their fanbases disliked the new updates to. Many of these updates that fans disliked were driven not by a desire for telling a good story, but by a desire to virtue signal/promote the creators own personal ideologies.

It doesn't matter how popular or how many adaptions have been made, the point remains the same. Fans disavowed those updates/reboots because the decisions and changes undermined the core experience. And  the changes that occurred were not for the purpose of good story telling but for the purpose of the author's ideology.

It doesn't even have to be woke/culture war ideology. Rian Johnson for example I don't think was driven so much for identity politics as he was an ideological approach to story telling. That ideology was one that ultimately did not respect the previous lore or world that existed.

You have creators coming in to tell "their" story...but this isn't their story. It belongs to the fans and the original author. There is a difference here when you're working with previous work.

One really great example of a reboot/rebirth that respects the source material while saying something new is Cobra Kai. Cobra Kai leans heavily into critiquing both "Toxic Masculinity" and "Snowflake Culture" but it does so while respecting the source material that came before. 

9 minutes ago, mogi68 said:

Don't gendered souls actually support the notion of transgenderism, though? IE even though I may be born into a male body, my essence is female. It seems like this is just going to muddy the waters.

 

I'm sure it's not going to really be a problem in the actual show, but theorycrafters may have a rough time with this.

 

My thought on this is that souls will be gendered...based on whether they touch saidin/saidar. Might get something where rather than Male/Female souls you get Saidin/Saidar souls. Saidin souls are more likely to be born male but not required to be? 

Not sure. But it does support the idea that your essence and who you are are more separate from your body. 

It ties more/less into gender fluidity than transgender theory...though I'm by no means an expert on that. 

2 minutes ago, TheDreadReader said:

 

I agree with your main point.  But, I tend to think that part of RJ's intention was to basically say that in some circumstances woman in power would act like men in power not because of their gender but because of the nature of power.

 

An example would be how many Aes Sedai effectively "mansplain" to Rand how he is wrong based on their position as Aes Sedai?

 

 

To which I would offer, "Why do women have this power?" One of the things i loved about Wheel of Time was that it was a inversion of what we experience in the real world. 

Honestly, as a white male, the book was very helpful for me in learning to empathize with oppressed groups. Not solely obviously, but there was a sense in which I could empathize with how oppressed groups would feel.

Feeling that systemic oppression applied to men in Wheel of Time, not because of anything they had done or what positins they held, but simply because they were men was one way the series affected my reading. 

Just now, Beidomon said:

But the LORE is what makes the story so darned good. It is what sets WOT apart. They took “heart and spine” of the series and crapped all over it. 

I do agree with you here. The show will definitely be lesser for it....

But at the same time doesn't mean it still can't be epic television. We were unlikely to get deep dives into Saidin/Saidar and the magic system. 

I'm sorely disappointed...but at least the actors theyv'e chosen seem to encapsulate the heart of the characters. Excited to see how Rand grows. ?

Honestly, best tactic now is to hope that they mostly ignore this deeper lore in the show and we get the same story play out with limited changes. Just...very few deep dives into the lore and the places where this was changed is only small mentions or off hand comments. 

2 minutes ago, Beidomon said:

 

I listened to a few of Sarah's interviews, and it is pretty clear that while she is the super-est of super fans, she is just thrilled to be involved in the production and she wants to keep it that way, which means offering her input when requested but she's gonna stay in her lane and not push back too hard against changes by the creative types.

Can't get away from this song playing in my head at this point.