15 minutes ago, CaddySedai said:

Why are there 23 bajillion attempts at DUNE. 

Because they only just now got it right - IMO.

15 minutes ago, CaddySedai said:

 

I can see it working. Really I just want as much WoT as I can get. 

I see your point.  Success breeds success.  Look at all the iterations of Batman and Spiderman.  They did good, we can do it better...

Why did he have two eyes?

9 hours ago, CaddySedai said:

As I said previously. More WoT is good. 

 

Quite happy we get at least 3. Hopefully we go to all 8 and then someone gets the bright idea to do movies that more accurately follow the books. 

 

And then a video game. Or the game first, Im not picky haha. 

If we get all 8 seasons the show would be a huge success.  Why would they need movies that more accurately follow the books when the show was a hit by departing from them?

6 hours ago, CaddySedai said:

@DojoToad Each reread is an opportunity to revisit it with a different eye. 

 

My last reread was a terrible mess and I loved every minute of it. 

 

I put all my books out on the floor and picked it up and just read it from Rand’s perspective. I skipped every chapter he was not in and just tried to get into his mind.

 

It was actually kind of crazy to not see what was happening with the other characters and it kinda helped me see that Rand was always in a really tough position from the get go. 

 

I think next I might read it through another character since it was such a fun experience. 

Bela’s?

2 hours ago, Deviations said:

Ingtar wont be recognizable if even present...

Hard to say.  Many of the characters were recognizable, but still very different.

1 hour ago, BlitzD said:

I find her hypocrisy at the start of LoC unbelievably stunning.  She sitting in judgement over two women getting into a fight over Will al Seem (of the shapely calves) and she is angry and barely restrained from slapping them at being so silly over a man.  She lectures them on how Men aren't fields or horses and can't be owned or claimed and they shouldn't fight over them. When that's all she did the last two books every time she imagined Perrin was interested in someone else (Imagined cause the boy never did). And this is all at the prologue for LoC well before Berelain pops into the book and Faile absolutely descends into the heights of infantile jealousy to put both women she judged to shame. 

ZOMBIE...

No one ever pretended that humans were consistent - even fictional ones.

25 minutes ago, mogi68 said:

No matter how well it does, Amazon will say that it's a huge success

Yes they will.

Because the Wise Ones said so.

1 hour ago, The Book Collector said:

Hi All,

 

What is a fine/fine unsigned set going for these days?

 

thanks,

 

-Paul

Do you mean first/first?

If so, I'd say $250 should cover the set...

2 hours ago, Cauthonfan4 said:

As angry as I am about this, nothing compares to the utter hatred I have of Patrick rothfuss.

It’s enough to make you not buy an unfinished series again, eh?

On 8/19/2022 at 11:37 AM, SilentRoamer said:

Honestly the old covers are so much nicer. 

The one for Eye of the World made me take it off the shelf and it is still my favorite.  A lot of the other original art was hit or miss for me - Especially the one where Perrin looks like Danny Bonaducci.

The bore, tel'aran'rhiod and other physics type things are above my head - just as they are in the real world.  But I'm starting to pick it up a bit.

Keep up the conversation.

3 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

I prefer WoT with this relatively clean look. I never imagined it to be nowhere near the level of Westeros. Perhaps in some places and later in the series but not now. HotD has "less than 20 million per episode" budget so way above WoT. Of course it doesn't explain all the differences in overall quality.

 

Personally, I'm not interested in HotD at all and most likely won't watch it.

I'm with you in that my interest level is not very high - mostly because I'm hating GRRM for not having finished the original series and being constantly distracted by 'side' projects.  But it's his world not mine...

1 hour ago, WhiteVeils said:

Souls can be gendered. Bodies might not necessarily match souls. And if there were ever a case where bodies and souls did not match AND that person could not channel, the majority of the world's population would never know at all, and it would not be relevant to the functioning of society for reasons I explained in my previous post.  If the show has Halima in it at all, I'm sure they would not be a Forsaken for simplicity's sake (and the previous forsaken has been cut anyway), but a Darkfriend who is simply a person with such a body/soul mismatch. Though they probably will cut the character - they're not essential and pretty problematic anyway.  There may well be one or two other trans characters in the show, especially if they keep Halima, but they would not be channelers.

Oh, but that shout of, "She's channeling saidin!" was so jarring.  Loved it.

Jarring on behalf of the characters, as readers we already knew...

So getting back on track with the OP's question...

I think Alanna and her warders are very charismatic.  And with changes from book to show I can see them getting additional time.  In fact, I'd be surprised if they didn't.

19 hours ago, Nik said:

I don't think the TV show will touch on trans channelers because it's too big of a can of worms. Too many ways to mess up. It's much easier to leave it alone and keep trans representation to non-channelers. Just my opinion though.

You are likely correct.  But this is also why I am asking the questions.  It is difficult and I'm trying to understand the issue from a perspective other than my own.

19 hours ago, Nik said:

 

I'm also noting that you continue to talk about women "choosing" to be men later in life, despite my explaining why that's inaccurate. I'm not going to continue engaging with your questions when they are

a) off-topic for this thread

b) phrased with transphobic language

Yes, I'm obviously not understanding what you're trying to explain.  Let's just assume that my skull is too thick and the subject too complex, plus a lifetime of only being peripherally exposed to trans topics.  As for your lettered points:

a) I was being too generic in my questions/comments.  I think that trans channelers provide the most interesting options especially in regards any possible effects on Warders and which side of the source drawn from.  Thus why I posted here - Alanna and her warders could cover it all.

b) Again, I will plead ignorance here.  Not trying to be mean/incendiary.  The topic is interesting to me but I obviously need to tread more carefully until I gain better understanding.

19 hours ago, Nik said:

 

I already said what I think in my previous post with regards to which half of the source a hypothetical trans channeler would have access to. I think @WhiteVeils's breakdown also makes sense if we assume souls are gendered and channeling is tied to the soul only. I don't have anything else to say on the matter.

 

@Nik - thank for your efforts to engage and trying to explain to an idiot old man.  My apologies for offending you.  I'll look for you elsewhere on the boards...

2 hours ago, Nik said:

 

I didn't say trans people don't exist. 

I was correcting your phrasing because it was inaccurate. Trans men are men. Trans women are women.

 

Trans men are not "women who identify as men." They're not women who "became" or "chose to be" men. They were always men. People don't choose their gender. They ARE their gender.

 

In the books, it's clearly impossible to choose which side of the Source you draw on. It's either one or the other, because as @Skipp said, the worldbuilding is extremely gender binary and doesn't allow for any nuance there. But since, for some reason (and I seriously don't understand how it's relevant), you insist on posing hypothetical questions about trans channelers:

 

In my opinion, if they existed in the world Robert Jordan created, they would only ever be able to channel one side of the One Power. No choosing, no changing. Which side it would be would depend what it's tied to. If it's tied to their gender, then trans men would channel saidin and trans women would channel saidar. If it's tied to genetics, then for the most part, trans men would channel saidar and trans women would channel saidin.*

 

Again, I don't understand why you're asking this. It's not relevant to this thread (which is about Alanna and her warders). It's not relevant to the last few posts about the Dragon prophecies (which were already off topic anyway). And it's barely relevant to the Wheel of Time as a whole because of how limited the series' definitions of gender are. I guess we could start a discussion of transness in the wheel of time in the book forums if you're really interested in digging into it, but I honestly don't think there's a lot to explore there. Jordan gave us very little to work with.

 

*This is a generalization because genetic sex and physiological sex don't always match up. Things can go wonky during fetal development. Also, intersex people exist but I don't think there's room for them in the world of WoT as Robert Jordan wrote it.

This thread is for the show which is way different from the books. So it doesn’t matter what Jordan set up but rather what Judkins did. And as we’re all still trying to figure out where the next season will go, I think trans-channelers are legitimate. How does Rafe treat a male channeler assigned female at birth?  What happens to a female channeler that chooses to be male later in life?

1 hour ago, Skipp said:

 

Aside from this being a bait topic particularly with the way you worded it.  But ultimately we just don't know.

 

Jordan designed a very binary magic system and considering the time that he wrote it he never addressed the idea of how being Trans fitted into it.  Perhaps they will keep it tied to the soul similar to Balthamel.

 

Hey, maybe the show will actually address this! If they do I hope it is handled better than it was in Balthamel's case.

 

 

It is not bait according to @Nik  They are what they say they are. No trans. People are what they say they are. So how does that affect what side of the power they draw from?

1 hour ago, Nik said:

There is no such thing as "a woman that identifies as a man." People are the gender they say they are. If someone identifies as a man, then he's a man, not "a woman that identifies as a man."

 

That being said, I don't really understand your question. The Dragon is Rand. Hypotheticals aren't relevant to the story.

Since you don’t understand, let’s take the Dragon out of it. What if a channeler drew on Saidar for several years then decides to draw on Saidin instead?  Would that channeler then be vulnerable to the taint?

or what if a channeler had used Saidin for a time, began to feel the madness seep in and then changed to Saidar- would that effectively hold off further effects or perhaps reverse them?

14 hours ago, JenaVi said:

Nynaeve makes a great Queen for Malkier imo because they are respectful to authority, unlike Two Rivers or Emond's Field folk. She is kind of a warrior. It's ok for men to be gruff and take no shit from people, but because Nynaeve is a woman she has to be soft and kind? Egwene wasn't soft and kind, she was arrogant and selfish. Nynaeve and Egwene are not like Perrin. Egwene rose to leadership by gaining acceptance of the other Aes Sedai... Nynaeve doesn't care about gaining anyone's acceptance. So much so that she'd choose Lan over being Aes Sedai. Not many people are like Perrin btw. Perhaps not anyone. All of our leaders are kind of aholes except Perrin and Elayne.

It is very possible she would make a good queen of Malkier - if she learns from her previous experiences. But alas, we shall never know…

I don’t think so. Wouldn’t everyone with him have experienced the same?  Don’t remember everyone else becoming a blade master or whatever master through the journey. 
 

They lost some time against the rest of the world, but I always thought they were in some kind of stasis, otherwise wouldn’t Mat have died from the dagger taint?

6 hours ago, Deviations said:

Trouble understanding Mat doesn't quite describe it.  I had to turn closed caption on - which I detest.  I'm not sure why anyone was disappointed to see that actor leave.  I flat couldn't understand anything he said.

I had no problem understanding Mat and thought he was one of the better actors. 

1 hour ago, KakitaOCU said:

I'm perfectly happy with Rafe's answer.  It's not that the Dragon can be someone other than Rand.  It's that it's an old Prophecy, as others already said.

People argue over every single line of text in the Prophecies of the Dragon, except that specific one?   We argue what slaying people with a leaf means, we argue over what "Breaking the world again" means.  But not one person ever goes "What if it's not an obvious man reborn?"   Specially combined with a world that is largely female dominated due to only women having magic and influencing things....

I never took it as "OOh, maybe it's not Rand."  I took it as people are dumb and history gets foggy and that leads to mistakes.

What if the dragon is a woman that identifies as a man or vice versa?

22 minutes ago, Nik said:

Or, hear me out here: people will watch one fantasy show, enjoy it, be hungry for more, and naturally go watch the other big fantasy show on the same platform. And most people? Probably won't even compare them. They'll just be happy to get more fantasy to watch.

Could be, assuming either of them are any good…

13 minutes ago, SilentRoamer said:

Problem is it destroys all of the prophecies and makes Moraine look stupid. 

Depends on if they changed the prophecies for the show as well.  Considering how much they changed from the books don't know how they couldn't have changed the prophecies also - but I only watched the first 4 episodes so don't know if they got into that.