Near the end of the Elenium, the world runs into an extra long patch of crappy weather, crops were failing and people were going to starve.  Flute (Aphrael) magically makes it alright again. 

I don't recall  - was Rand actually wielding/channeling through Callandor when Dashiva complains of the oddness?

8 minutes ago, Skipp said:

Can't see it on the cropped posted image but the soldiers on the right seem to be of a different rank.  Their helm has an extended portion that certainly invokes an insect vibe. 

 

You can see it better in this image below.  There is a third image that is even better but I don't have it on hand.

 

 

Agreed - funky praying mantis head.  Like it!

4 hours ago, Wassup said:

Back to the teaser. 
 

At 0:34, is that Seanchan soldier holding a baseball bat?

Is he about to go Negan on Uno?

 

Good capture!

• No insect head armor - at least not how I pictured it
• Definitely a baseball bat - wonder if they cgi something there
• So the dagger didn't do in the stunted ogier - wonder what's so scary about it?

5 hours ago, Skipp said:

That is one take, but I can think of at least 3 times characters are captured that lead to big events and I don't think they will drop those.

 

Elayne and Nynaeve with Rhonda Macura(sp?) and the introduction of Forkroot.

 

And be rescued by men?  That would be surprising...

6 hours ago, templar7 said:

https://winteriscoming.net/2022/10/16/the-wheel-of-time-shouldve-gotten-amazons-billion-dollar-budget-instead-rings-of-power/

 

This article perfectly encapsulates my point... WOT is the superior show.

Couldn't disagree more.  But glad you found an article you liked.

2 minutes ago, expat said:

 

 

It's a soothing saying, but it doesn't direct specific actions.

Lots of sayings don’t direct specific actions. In this case, the characters failed, didn’t have control, or didn’t foresee an outcome. So they shrug their shoulders and move on. Of course, ‘the wheel weaves’ can also apply to good things. When they don’t know how to respond, plug in a filler phrase…

Helps with those awkward silences when the unexpected occurs. 😁

2 hours ago, expat said:

"The wheel weaves as it wills" is a meaningless religious mantra.  It sounds good and soothes people enough that they can believe bad things are not their fault, but it doesn't give direction for people's actions.

I would say, meaningless post-religious mantra.  I don't recall many clerical figures in the books much less houses of worship.  'The Wheel weaves...' is the equivalent of 'shit happens'.  Do you also consider that a religious mantra?

2 hours ago, expat said:

 

Like reading religious books such as the Bible or Koran, each person brings their own knowledge, biases, and hopes to the words and interprets them how they want.  They don't tell you what to do tomorrow to fix your problems.

 

It's not like the wheel announced itself and told Moiraine, "I'm the Wheel and my weaving wills that you go the EOTW today through a very dangerous travel method and you must take the whole crew with you."

I thought the WoT had many spiritual components but not much religion.  Don't recall a bunch of clergy in the books - or houses of worship.  I always thought Randland was post religious.  There were some left over mantras that meant little or nothing.  Kind of like we say 'bless you' when someone sneezes.  I think that the meaning has been lost or changed over the centuries.  But people still often respond with a thank you regardless of any religious feelings.

Religious texts, spirituality, chakras, meditation, auras, crystals, etc. are often part of fantasy and sci-fi.  It is part of the 'magic' of the world.  And it often gives motivation to the characters along with direction.  Even if 99% of the characters (or readers) think they're idiots.

9 hours ago, expat said:

What I find ironic is that if the book EOTW had a different finish and the show filmed the book ending, we would hear the exact same criticism.  I seriously disliked episode 8, but for every problem with it, the original book ending had an equal number.  Bluntly, the EOTW endings in both the book and the series sucked.  Claiming professional writers don't care what they put forward and that they are incompetent because you disagree with some of their literary choices is unnecessary and inflammatory.

 

The book ending was a series of illogical deux es machina events relying on the fiction that Rand's ta'veren status crossed the entire world across multiple months to excuse any bad writing.

1. There were multiple prophetic warnings from different places in the world at different times about the Shadow attacking the EOTW.  Note that these had to be prophetic since the Forsaken were still trapped in their prison so hadn't planned the attack when the warnings happened.  Also, this is the only time in the whole series where there were multiple instances of the same prophecy.  In all other circumstances, prophetic visions/dream visions/Min's visions were only viewed by one person.

2. All these multiple warnings just happened to reach Moiraine who decided that the vague warnings were so dire/time sensitive that they needed to use the deadly Ways to get to the EOTW immediately.

3. They chased after the EOTW even though Moiraine had already been there and couldn't find it twice. 

4. There just happened to be a Ogier available so they could take the Ways.

5. She decided to go even to prevent a Shadow attack even though their group consisted of one contemporarily strong (but historically weak) Aes Sedai, one outstanding fighter, a proto-dragon who didn't even know he could channel, two untrained fighters, and two untrained (so useless), but potentially powerful channelers.

6. She took the whole group to the EOTW to face the Shadow attack instead of leaving Eg and Nyn or sending them to Tar Valon.  She risked the death of future channelers for no value against the Shadow.  If we think that she knew that Rand was the dragon, she risked the two other ta'veren for no value against the Shadow. 

7.  The EOTW arrived just when they were about to die in the Blight.  

8.  How did Arg and Balt, just after escaping their 3000 year captivity, know about the EOTW since it was created after their captivity.

9. Arg and Balt arrived at the EOTW at the exact same time as our heroes.  An hour or two either way would have prevented the fight.

10. Why did Arg and Balt attack the EOTW anyway?  They weren't affected by the taint, so they didn't need the pool of pure saidin (even if they knew it was there).

 

Since the book ending was so problematical, Jordan must not have known what he was doing and didn't care about the quality. 

As 'bad' as the book ending was, the rest of the book was strong enough to carry us through to book two and a best-selling series.  For me, that was not the case with the show.  Very weak season culminated by a crappy finale.  S2 can still save the show but it needs to be way better.

7 hours ago, Chivalry said:

I enjoyed Episode 8 of RoP. In fact, I enjoyed the entire season. It was not a perfect show...they stuffed too much into the finale, developments that (in theory) should have taken more time. Still, I'm looking at the show as a long movie, and things move much more quickly on the big screen than they do on the small screen (or Robert Jordan's world).  All things considered, the series did remind me of how much I enjoyed reading Tolkien as a teen/young man and how much I enjoyed the LotR movies.

 

With all the pre-release criticism and all the resultant toxicity (not to mention the bizarre ad campaign), I had relatively low expectations. The finale left me and my kids (teens) looking forward to the next season.

 

I'm hoping WoT Season 2 steps up its game.

 

Yes.  I was on the fence the whole season, but the finale really did it for me.  Not perfect by any means, but it brought storylines together without leaving lame cliffhangers (cough*Loial*cough).  S1 storylines got wrapped up nicely while still keeping interest up in what happens next.  Looking forward to S2.

10 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

Martin's work is a sub genre of Fantasy/Fiction called "Grimdark". It's closer to Joe Abercrombie's "First Law" series then WoT.

Maybe so.  I'm not saying they're the same, just comparable.  And a lot closer together than Shakespeare and Marvel.

8 minutes ago, VooDooNut said:

I don't disagree that the Nynaeve and Egwene moments were over the top S1, but I think we have to see more before I pass judgement. A WAFO if you will...

They can't slow down now.  All the TV WoT fans expect hero moments to come fast and furious.

1 hour ago, VooDooNut said:

If every character's arc is based on being heroic, I agree, but each character can have heroic moments without it becoming cliche. To be fair, most of the characters in the books are fairly heroic at one point or another.

And this is part of what doesn't work for me in the adaptation for TV.  The heroic moments are coming too fast.  Though I don't remember any for Mat and Perrin.  Nynaeve had the ninja kill on the trolloc and the healing explosion in the Aes Sedai camp.  Egwene brought Nynaeve back from the edge of death.  And together they took out all the baddies at Tarwin's Gap.  Rand had the Eye.

They're making a super hero show not a fantasy.

1 hour ago, WhiteVeils said:

I think a goal is to give each of the EF5 Climactic Finale hero moments so the part of the Memory of Light 'It was all of them' is very true and front-and-center all the way through. Egwene and Nynaeve healing isn't a hero moment. Them facing down the trollocs is. Rand doesn't need 2 hero moments in the season 1 finale, so splitting them so Nynaeve and Egwene each get one makes sense.  Perrin and Mat, however, did not get S1 Hero moments, especially with the recast, so it make sense to give them their hero moments in S2.

Fortunately, the books gives some help.  Rand fights Ishy...definitely hero moment, even if he doesn't claim callendor.  Mat sounds the Horn...definite hero moment.  And with his inate conflict 'Am I really able to be a hero?' sounding the horn gives him an actual story arc.  Nynaeve and Elayne rescuing Egwene and Egwene helping break herself free gives them a smaller hero moment.  But how do we give a hero moment to Perrin? Faile isn't introduced until S3, so his hero moment in the books of saving her doesn't get much play, even if it can be called a hero moment.  Carrying the banner doesn't much compare to the Horn.  He didn't get a hero moment in S1.  He needs a good hero moment to be on par with the others.  I think they're going to play up the conflict between Perrin and the Seanchen, and also have him wrestle with violence vs. The Way of the Leaf, and then his hero moment will be fighting and killing High Lord Turok.

Rand doesn't need both Ishy and Turok as hero moments, and his innate conflict isn't about violence. Perrin taking that hero moment from Rand will mean more and completes a potential season-long story arc for Perrin.

If everyone is a hero, then no one is...

53 minutes ago, Jacobr said:

I gotta disagree here. HoTD is basically trying to be Succession with Dragons. It’s a completely different show that allows for different scenes and different styles of storytelling. 
 

WoT is trying to tell it’s story in a much more action/adventure style vain. It’s much closer in tone to Indian Jones than HoTD or GoT ( GoT spilt the difference a bit more by the end, for better or worse).

 

It’s Shakespeare vs Marvel. Both have witches, heros and villains with powers and fantastical elements but they are quite different.

I agree that Shakespeare and Marvel are very different. I don’t agree that WoT and GoT/HotD are ‘very’ different. 
 

Your comparison/contrast is extreme. It is not a leap to put Jordan’s and Martin’s work in the same ballpark. 🤷‍♂️

Sephrenia is a mystical magic-user, no one knows how old she is but she has trained generations of knights in magic use. So obviously lives longer than other humans. At least one mention of agelessly beautiful. 
 

Have a feeling she might hook up with Vanion by the end of the series - similar to Moiraine and Thom. 

Must say I liked episode 8 of RoP. A lot packed in there. The color choice for the gemstones on the Elven rings seemed odd

Sephrenia puts a ‘tattoo’ on her arm of a snake wrapped around her forearm with the head on her palm - sounds familiar. 
 

Also the group rode into an area of blighted trees - described as leprous, foul smelling, fungus-ridden…. Not quite the Blight, but not too far off. Jordan improved on it. 

4 minutes ago, ForsakenPotato said:

@DojoToad yes, but kind of in the same way Brooklyn 99 and The Wire are an apples to apples comparison because they are both police procedurals.

So Gala versus Granny Smith instead of Red Delicious versus Clementine?

😁

2 hours ago, Dagon Thyne said:

Something tells me season two will more closely follow the books...

 

Perrin goes with the Shienarans to retieve the horn feeling guilty for failing to stop Fain.  Moiraine goes to retreive Mat, but realizes he isn't fully healed and sends him to join in the group., and she convinces Rand to join in to help his friends.

 

The girls all go to the Tower, but are tricked by Liandrin, where they meet Elayne, but they are all tricked by Liandrin and end up being taken by the Seanchan.  

Then everything falls into place.....Rand meets Serene (whether or not Hurin is there) and ends up traveling by Porterstone and they all in up in Cairhien.    Then they all travel by porterstone to Falne, where a bunch of shut happens and Rand fights Ishy in the sky

 

Depending on what they add ot subject, I am unsure of whether they will put THG and TDR into te reason season.

 

 

 

 

Depends on how much new stuff they add. 

7 hours ago, ForsakenPotato said:

Agree with @wotfan4472. Maybe another way of putting it is that GoT and especially HoT are primarily concerned with how people fall from power -- especially how good people fall from power because goodness and kindness can be exploited. It's mostly about royalty because they represent the ultimate power (and demonstrate how it can be taken away, usually via violence). There are occasional happy moments but mostly these are tragedies. Any good character that manages the minor miracle of survival carries such deep psychological wounds that they may or may not be good by the end, and definitely will not be happy.

 

WoT is chiefly concerned with how good people rise to power from humble backgrounds and make a better world. It's a story that's a lot more comforting that GoT/HotD, which at least for me was something I really needed when I found it. At the same time, I honestly think that makes it harder in some ways for actors to give any real groundbreaking performances. I also love Paddy Considine in HotD like @AdamA

mentioned -- but who could he be in WoT where he could show that much range and be given that much screentime? I LOVE the characters in WoT (book and show) but they are not quite as complicated, and aren't meant to be because it would make many of them less likeable and fun. I think the actors on WoT are doing decently with the material and in a few cases even giving more nuance than I noticed in the books, but RJ and GRRM for the most part just don't write the same types of characters and viewers shouldn't expect them to feel similar onscreen. I don't think one is better than the other (I could list a lot I think each show has done well and poorly), but it's comparing apples to oranges.

I think the apples and oranges comparison might be a bit overstated. Good, bad, evil, divine is often a matter of perspective especially when truth is subjective. That goes for both characters and events. 
 

In the end HotD, WoT, GoT, RoP are all dramatic fantasy TV shows. That’s about as apples to apples as you can get in any comparison. 

2 hours ago, pig said:

how did he light his pipe?

Willpower 

Only rich folk can afford Two Rivers tabac.  When they first left home, they were not in rich areas.  Maybe that would explain people not knowing about the Two Rivers.  Or it could have been a change in direction...

7 minutes ago, king of nowhere said:

they can very easily stumble on mat during the hunt, and mat can take his place. i doubt they'll make such a change as to change the hornsounder

I doubt it as well, but you never know...

13 minutes ago, SBroc said:

Question- If Matt isn't part of the hunt for the horn does that make it look like Perrin with be the one that uses it?  Is there a way in this current version that Matt still gets to the Aiel with Rand- gets his staff and gets to Falme and the horn?  If he's not involved with any of that where is the character going?

Too early to say.  I think there is plenty of opportunity for the characters to go any number of directions.