3 minutes ago, WhiteVeils said:

Them showing the threads for Saidin when necessary isn't a dirty and cheap plot trick...it's just storytelling clarity in a visual medium.  You don't like it...it's fine. But there's no universal principle of filmmaking that is being ignored to do it. It's your own personal opinion.

 

Didn't know there were universal principals of filmmaking.  But I regard it as a cheat as well.  Showing saidin threads in one scenario but not another to trick (or inform) the audience is a cheat - my personal opinion.  Be consistent.

Same reason everyone pointed out the the two-faced politicians during COVID:  Wear a mask, don't travel, don't gather in groups - and then they get caught doing the opposite.  "Rules for thee but not for me."  Gotta love the hypocrisy...

1 hour ago, AshleyJenkins said:

Thanks for the suggestion. I thought there is a specific site to order books 🙂

Amazon and ebay are specific sites - they just sell more than books.

Just google what books you want to buy and you will get specific results.

I actually just switched from Amazon to Barnes and Noble on my last order.

Amazon wanted to charge $31 and change for a paperback trilogy.  Was just about ready to check out when I saw they were selling the books singly for $7.99 each.  So I could buy them for $23.97 with a few extra clicks, or buy them as a bundle for $8 more.  No way!!!  Plus they don't accept PayPal which is what I was wanting to use.

Barnes and Noble - next day delivery, $23.97, and accepts PayPal.  I might have my new bookstore...

I agree that the build-up was way too long.  Maybe half a book would have been plenty.  Battle itself was still underwhelming.  I understand that things change once the battle is engaged, but also probably my least favorite part of the books after the Shaido/Faile arc.

Still my favorite series.  Some parts will be better than others.  Can't all be gold.

12 hours ago, Andra said:

Also bear in mind that a big part of the reason Nynaeve has the issues she does is because she has had to spend her entire tenure as Wisdom trying to get people to remember her position, not her age.  She looks forward to her first wrinkles and gray hair so she will no longer be treated as too young for the responsibility.

 

She is extremely sensitive about having her authority respected, even more so with people who she could spank until very recently.  Rand seems to be the only one of the youngsters she doesn't act this way with at all, but Perrin is a close second.  Mostly because she always saw Perrin as the well-behaved one.

 

Mat got the short end of it because she always saw him as a slacker and scoundrel.  Ironically, she had the same problem recognizing him as a responsible(ish) grownup with his own authority that she had faced herself.  But it's Egwene who sets her off the most because she had been her apprentice.  Having the same rank as Accepted was difficult to - well - accept.

 

---

Perrin (with Faile) was better able to handle the stubborn folk because once he started being Ta'veren with them, they decided themselves that he was the boss.  No braid-tugging necessary.

Yes, Perrin had advantages - being ta'veren and having a wife who grew up in court.  And he also had years under Nynaeve's leadership to see what didn't work.

Perrin earned their respect (previously mentioned advantages aside) by never demanding it.  He asked for feedback.  He didn't insult them when they were being unreasonable - he turned their complaints back on them and helped them see that they were being 'stupid' instead of calling them stupid and kicking them in the ass.  He took firm control when it was obvious no one else would step up.

And in the end they followed him because he made it clear he didn't want to be in charge as opposed to her demanding respect.  Neither was a perfect leader, if there is such a thing.  But good leaders figure out what works in their situation, Nynaeve never did that.

29 minutes ago, Sabio said:

I just always worry since some already compared WOT to GOT and how things were done in GOT.  Just seems like to me if LOTR is a huge hit there are going to be the inevitible comparisons on what WOT could have done differently.

Why worry about comparisons?  If WoT is the superior show, then people will be talking about what LotR could have done differently. 

I finally did it.  Re-purchased Dragonlance Chronicles and Legends.  Not high literature by any means but they were fun and enjoyable for me back in the day.

I still have to get through my David Eddings, but then on to D&D goodness.

Then Dune and then back to WoT.  Again, I don't read as much as I used to, these will probably take me through the end of 2023...

10 hours ago, JenaVi said:

Not all leaders are liked or make friends with people. Some people lead with an iron fist, which is early Nynaeve, thanks to the stubborn people she dealt with in Emond's Field. Nynaeve has had leadership skills the whole series. It was Nynaeve, as early as book 2, that leads the rescue of Egwene. It's also mentioned she's good at politics... when it matters. She just doesn't care to be patient with people. She is rough with others and herself. Over the series, she learns to accept herself and others, which turns her into a better leader, but I bet she still brooks no non-sense. 

Iron-fisted tyrant is a leadership style, true.  And that might be the only way to go when herding trollocs, but I believe the people of Emond's Field could be directed without getting kicked in the teeth just because they choose to think through a situation rather than blindly following their leader's first directive.

In fact, I believe Perrin (with Faile's help) did a much better job leading these same stubborn people without having to step on throats.

None of my predictions came through for S1 so I won't even try.  Good luck!

7 minutes ago, WhiteVeils said:

It having a small barred window high on the wall doesn't mean they were above ground...basements can have windows.

 

But beyond that...'no other explanations'?  Superstrength has been given as one.  Luck is another (the door is not as barred as Dana thought it was), or she was just wrong about how strong it was.  Or a secret someone opening it from the outside. Most non-readers thought right off it was superstrength, not channeling at all.

So when Logain channeled, you could clearly see the black wisps.  I only watched the episode when Rand broke down the door twice.  Does anyone remember any black wisps?  Or was that hidden?

Will be interested to see how much more changes.  Probably going to be a lot further from the books - some folks will be okay with that, others won't.

Given Amazon limits on season length, even if they attempted to stay close to the books there absolutely would have been plenty left out - and that was without the new stuff added by RJ2.

I didn't like a lot of stuff RJ2 changed.  But now I'm beginning to think that even had he done it the way I wanted (more in line with the books), he wouldn't have been able to pull it off well.

Then again, LotR (movies) stayed fairly true but had major cuts/changes - and I loved it.  So I'm not a purist, I can live with change.  Guess I just have to like it - which is what it comes down to for all of us in the end...

S1 wasn't for me.  Still hoping S2 will be, but not holding my breath (well, maybe a little bit 😁)

2 hours ago, expat said:

Whether the series was going to stick with Rand as the Dragon was a (maybe the) pressing topic here throughout the series.  If the scene was so overt and definitive, don't you think that it would have driven significant discussion? 

 

Here are all the quotes from the Episode 3 thread about the topic:

 

Here is your post on Episode 3

Pretty underwhelming for such an important event.

 

I stand on my opinion that it was subtle (enough).

There is a difference between being subtle and poorly done. I found it both poorly done and overt. But to each their own. 

2 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

This is such a bizarre notion. She used her arms while she ran. Like many other people who use their arms. In no way did she resemble the T1000. LOL.

 

Especially after Thom's knife went through her neck.  Not nearly as tough as the T1000.

1 hour ago, ForsakenPotato said:

Ha ha yes I tried to keep it brief but as usual I failed!

I enjoy a lot of mystery series and I think I liked Verin from the start because she reminded me of a detective. I remember there's a trolloc attack in The Great Hunt and everyone is running around traumatized and Verin is poking about finding it all very fascinating.

I hope your next read through is even better! But also, don't let anyone else's opinion ruin it for you. You enjoy what you enjoy!

No one else's opinion will ruin it for me.  But I might enjoy some of my favorite moments less and might linger on other moments that I breezed past before.  All the posts I've read on this site can't help but change perspective - for good or ill, or maybe it ends up being a wash...

2 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

I won't be mad at losing Emo Perrin whinging about the wolf banner...

LOL

Do you think Mat takes over for Perrin in the battle of Emond’s field?

25 minutes ago, WhiteVeils said:

The showrunner said there will be 1 episode focused on each major character, but I definitely hope that Perrin's and Mat's are early, and Perrin and Mat really need more than one.

Eight episodes, or do we know that yet?  Main characters being:

• Nynaeve
• Egwene
• Mat
• Rand
• Perrin
• Moiraine
• Lan
• Thom

Or is it someone else?

Whew!  That's a lot.  Funny - Verin wasn't one of my favorite characters until I found out her secret.  Battle for Emond's Field was one of my favorites as well - especially when the women join the line, brings a tear every time.

I never spent a lot of times on these forums until I heard about the show being made.  I'll be interested to see how my enjoyment changes after all the discussions about the show and the books.  A lot of different perspectives have been absorbed.  Stuff that I breezed over in the books were way more important to other people, and as a result I will probably look at them differently myself.

WoT was always very personal for me.  Now my world has expanded and I'm kind of nervous as to what that means for the next read-through...

15 hours ago, Sabio said:

The mystery will be solved in November.  On Amazon you can preorder the Origins of the Wheel of time book,  Here is some of what it describes as being in the book:

 

Explore never-before-seen insights into the Wheel of Time, including:
- A brand-new, redrawn world map by Ellisa Mitchell using change requests discovered in Robert Jordan's unpublished notes
- An alternate scene from an early draft of The Eye of the World
- The long-awaited backstory of Nakomi
- 8 page, full color photo insert

Mine has been ordered for a few months.  And unlike our buddy, GRRM, the folks behind WoT meet their deadlines!  Looking forward to getting my hands on it.

Of course the Encyclopedia decided to resurrect Bela after she clearly died in the Last Battle.  So who knows how clearly Origins will define Nakomi.  Maybe she's the Creator...

On 8/13/2022 at 11:31 AM, WhiteVeils said:

We first learn of Compulsion in The Dragon Reborn when it is used in Tear on the Wonder Girls.  So there's certainly  a chance we see it in S2.  I think overall we'll get a lot more explanation about the power this season...not everything, but more.  That's why we will see colors in the threads this season...Egwene and Nynaeve are actually learning about the different elements.

Are we going to get a training montage...  🤣

There are sure to be comparisons.  But I don't think, in the end, that a great LotR will make me like WoT less, any more than a bad LotR will make me like WoT more.

GoT I thought was well done for the few seasons I watched it - and I did compare/contrast with WoT - with GoT coming out on top.  But in the end WoT is its own show and I like/dislike it on its own merits.

4 hours ago, expat said:

It was subtle enough that every watcher didn't immediately conclude that the show identified Rand as the Dragon.  How many posts on this site continued to argue about the possibility of someone other than Rand was the Dragon even after this episode?

Not worried about the identity of the Dragon here.  But that you thought a darkfriend mentioning an impregnable door that was immediately broken through by Rand was subtle.

19 hours ago, expat said:

I am always taken aback by the simplistic criticism of the Stepin arc.  The Stepin arc was a complicated set of scenes trying to accomplish several things, explaining the warder bond was just one of them. It also developed Lan's character, introduces the question of what happens to the Aes Sedai when the warder dies, [although not explored in the books, the question of what a long-term, deadly symbiotic relationship between the warder and the Aes Sedai does to the personality, mental state, and actions of both parties], and development of Aes Sedai society (both in the warder friendship scene in the previous episode and the actual Stepin arc).

Some of us are simpler than others…. Sorry to take you aback. 

2 hours ago, expat said:

 

Second, Rand's use of the one power with Gode (lighting though a stone wall) to escape was too overt.  They needed a subtle use to show later when Rand realizes he is the Dragon, but nothing that screamed one power.

 

As in the series, they could have escaped on their own and then have Thom save them from the henchmen later.  But this is already rewriting the book to get close to what the series showed.  Does it make more sense to bastardize an existing character or just create an amalgamation of several?

Subtle?  So the dark friend mentioning that 10 (?) men couldn’t break the door down, and then Rand doing it by himself is subtle?

2 minutes ago, Nik said:

 

The darkfriend in the show wasn't just replacing Gode. She was also standing in for Milli Skane, Paitr, and all the little towns they stayed in along the way. She was a combination of several things. I thought they did a really good job of making her likeable so even book readers were shocked when she turned out to be a darkfriend.

 

As for "it wasn't done well" that's your opinion, sure. But needing a rewatch to appreciate something isn't necessarily anything to do with quality. In my case, the first watch was rougher because I was coming to it with book expectations and finding some of the changes jarring. Once I knew what the changes were, I was able to enjoy it without being taken out of my immersion by "wait this is different". It's all about expectations.

 

I'm not saying you have to like it, but I'm providing a different perspective in the hopes of indicating that some people did enjoy it and it wasn't objectively bad, but rather a matter of preference and opinion.

I absolutely agree that these are just my opinions.  I too had to get over expectation shock.  There were several unexpected show changes that I liked and I thought improved on the books.

Gode was the creepiest of the early dark friends for me.  Rand and Mat being trapped in that room by two shoulder thumpers and Howal.  I felt helpless for them.  I did not get the same feeling with Rand being trapped by terminator darkfriend.  Milli and Paiter were unexpected but didn't have the same 'scare' factor that Howal had for me.

Changes are fine if they improve what's already available - for me that included the carnal relationship between Rand and Egwene, bringing Logain's storyline forward and making him more prominent, making Mat's family less reputable (by a lot).

Terminator darkfriend (made me laugh) and Stepin (WTF) were two changes that not only were not needed but were poorly executed.  Considering the time constraints on S1, Stepin especially, was a waste of time.

Just my thoughts.  I understand that others disagree.