I started ASOIAF many years ago, picked it up from the SFBC.  And I have read the first 5 books, but am no longer very interested due to the long gap.  I will pick up Winds of Winter when it comes out, but it will sit on the shelf until the 7th book is released.  Then I'll read the whole series beginning to end.  But GRRM is juggling too many projects so I'm not reading anymore until I know I have it all.  I also picked up some of the stand-alone books from that universe (Fire and Blood) but haven't read them yet.  If I throw a few dollars away because it never gets finished then so be it.  Keeping track of the characters and storylines is even harder than WoT - so no sense reading until I can go straight through.

Long way of saying - I will not start another series until I know it is complete.  GRRM ruined me.  I may buy the books if the series is getting rave reviews, but they will sit unread until the story is complete.

I could buy her as Aviendha - except for the dark eyes and no fight scenes in her show reel.  I know - gotta get the best actors so eye color doesn't matter.  But fighting does.

Let's hope she gets some weapons training!

23 hours ago, Sir_Charrid said:

That whole battle occupies what, a few pages, a tiny proportion of the entire book but covering a huge event, a battle which lasts much longer then it takes to read. But in those few words you get the picture of the entire battle, and more importantly, the fear, determination and acceptance of all those involved. I remember almost cheering as the women came the line to fight, as the reinforcements then arrived. I find George RR Matin lacks that succinct ability to tell so much in so so few words. 

Meaning you didn't cheer out loud, but did do so internally.  Right?

It's all I can do not to cry when the women join the line.  And then Faile arrives with the reinforcements...

Jordan was a master of making the reader (or me at least) feel the emotion of the situation.  In your example: resolve, resignation, anger, grief, hope, joy...

26 minutes ago, king of nowhere said:

exactly. we already knew it was 2023, and we already know that amazon doesn't announce stuff coming out until a few months before. so, no news so far is neither bad nor good; it's simply too early to get an official release date.

Not too early if it is being released in January...

😝

Not a big deal for me.  If I had loved S1, I'd probably be a lot more anxious and checking everyday.

Happens when it happens.  My guess is release date with a full trailer - but no idea when that might be.

16 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

I don't know about that. When showing visions of past timelines, it has to be made abundantly and stupidly clear to the audience what they are seeing is in the past.

The part that might throw people by, is that the technology gets "better" the further back in time you go.

I think an easy way to show this without telling the audience, is to show buildings & landmarks with varying levels of decay, and how less decayed they become as each new vision happens.

Now here's a thought...

Lets say this happens in Season 4.
Have every every cold opening, BE those visions.
Then on say, episode 5, have the cold opening being Rand stepping through the ring and we see those visions fast forward to the last vision.

Could work, but it must be made very clear that the visions are happening in Rhuiden, that they are being experienced by Rand, and that they are connected.

Less than a week to go, and I have the day off when it gets delivered.

So anyone else getting this?  There doesn't seem to be a lot of excitement; at least I haven't seen it...

55 minutes ago, Sir_Charrid said:

I mean the powers of CGI now days they could take someone and then change the body, alot of your MCU superheroes do not have the bodies that appear on screen, I can't remember who it was but I remember an actor telling a story once about how he spent months getting in shape for an MCU role, turned up on set and realised the other actors where relying on either the outfit they where given to make them look like they had a 6 pack, or, had been told that the body would be tweaked by CGI later. 

The same could be done for Lanfer, there is enough filters and trickery used in normal print media and on instagram etc that almost any actress could be taken and then made something more. 

Wait?  What we see in movies isn't real???

LOL - not mocking you @Sir_Charrid.  Just surprised that someone in the business didn't know this.

1 hour ago, SilentRoamer said:

 

I posted a reply to this earlier today - along the lines of how some criticisms around modern political influence working their way into adaptions can be valid - or at least expressed from a genuine opinion about the adherence to source material, apparently it needed to be approved by a moderator....

Like how the Winespring Inn looks like a Starbucks from a modern city which removes some of the differences between Rand and the other Emond Fielders, which, in my view, directly affects the plot, essentially placing modern day politics ahead of authorial intent and authenticity. 

I had to repost and star out the word above because a reply to your comment flags me for moderation approval. I never swear and always try to be respectful - I did remember that is one of the rules, so I will avoid the topic in future. 

@DojoToad I have also tried to be fair to the show but some of my criticisms do revolve around modern day politics making their way into the source material that never included them in the first place, like forcing a square peg through a round hole.

The world has changed and we need to adapt with it whether or not we deem the change right or fair.

That includes being aware of 'trigger' words and listening to the mods.  Yes, I think 'trigger' words are silly most of the time - but not always.  Just takes a little more thought and creativity to make a point while staying within the rules.

I'm pretty easy-going, but found myself 'triggered' some time ago when someone else was denigrating my real life religion and religion in general.  I let it go at the time, because we're all adults here and the world does include religious bigots.  Just skipped the irrelevant parts and responded to the substance as best I could.  Guess I should have reported it.  The way of the world...

Criticism is allowed.  Be aware of phrasing and stay on point.

Could affect the Tinkers much the same way as the Aiel with their own malaise.  Or perhaps not.  Maybe it ends their wandering and they abandon their search for the song and converge on Tar Valon to support the Aes Sedai again as they pick up the pieces after the Last Battle.

Lots of tragedy in WoT.  I don't find the need to rank it.

2 minutes ago, Sir_Charrid said:

What I mean is does the Hero only get pulled as the baby is being born, meaning that the wheel hedges it's bets a bit, if it needs a hero for an age it at least makes sure the baby is coming to full term. Or does the wheel then ensure the baby lives to maturity. It raises interesting questions about true free will in the WOT universe. Yes the Heroes live varied lives (Birgitte remembers mundane ordinary lives where she lives in peace), but, is this because it is the life the wheel picked out for her in that moment?

It is worth a forum topic on it's own, I am just not sure how to word the question in the right way :). 

Guess that depends on the definition of life in Randland.  I would think it happens at conception, otherwise could be quite jarring to have an 'ordinary' soul displaced by the 'hero' soul after the Wheel/Pattern determines the life is viable.

11 minutes ago, Sir_Charrid said:

I mean if the story of an entire galaxy (star wars) must be based around just a single family then taking a cast of hundreds of characters and weaving them into the main story seems paltry :). 

But it raises an interesting question, is the Hero pulled out of the wheel at the point of Conception, Birth or somewhere in between. Have lives been lost before birth, during or even in the formative first year or so. Did a version of Artur die age 2 from an accident? Or is the hero always destined to live a long life? 

Does it matter when you're tied to the Wheel?

No clue as to the distance, but if there was any long lost connection for the Seanchan, I would have put it with Shara.  Both cultures had strict controls on channelers.  If you go back far enough , could Sharans (or some subset) have emigrated to the west coast of the Seanchan continent?

7 hours ago, CaddySedai said:

 

Ooooh, shoot I totally forgot back then that I'm absolutely threatening you with having to do lines *nods* A little late but hey, respect my authori-tay 

12 hours ago, Sabio said:

I wonder if it's an advantage to not have access to the whole lore of the series you're making.  Rafe has access to the whole WOT lore and world and people expect it to stay true all the time.  Where with the LOTR series they mostly have to use obscure source material and make a lot up.  

Depends on the showrunner.  I imagine some people expected it to remain true, whereas others expected it to change to due moving from book to screen - adaptation.  I think changes are fine as long as they improve on the source material.

Having very little source material depends on the creativity of the showrunner and the team.  Stay in line with what little material there is but take a free hand and create because there is little source material.

I don't recall such a discussion.  I'd say not one of Amys' babies.  How many threads do we need between our heroes?

6 hours ago, Dagon Thyne said:

I think it had to do with his three questions, coupled with his studies of the prophesies.  He knew that the The Aiel were the people of the Dragon, and suspected that their prophesies were part of his own.

• Why did he ask the questions he did?
• There was no hint of Rand being a scholarly lad in the Two Rivers - why study the prophecies and not just do what feels right
• Who encouraged him/taught him/dropped hints (even unintentionally) about the doorframe ter'angreal and the prophecies?

Probably Moiraine for the last bullet point, but who was guiding her?  I think the answer is still the Pattern.

9 hours ago, Asha'man Shar'aman said:

People are really passionate here, and to give my honest opinion, DM sucked and was pretty toxic on both sides while the show was coming out. It’s gotten a lot chiller, but I think some people (including me) were scared off by the general aggressiveness, regardless of how you felt about the show. I don’t think there’s any good way to handle those situations as a mod. I don’t agree with some of the choices made, but I’ve also never been a mod on a scale as large as the whole of DM. Any “extra” rules here or a vibe mostly seem to me like trying to discourage both sides from making it a bloodbath like last year. Some bias is going to exist no matter what, but I don’t see anyone being overly extreme in their opinions/moderation. 
 

Besides, DM has always seemed to me like a small community. Everybody knows everybody, you know who fights with who, etc. We aren’t like Reddit where fighting is constant and the more controversial your opinion the better. More often than not, you’ve interacted with the person you’re arguing with before and I think that makes people moderate their words/think a bit more about how to respond in a respectful way. I do agree that DM is a bit more show favorable, but (from almost every instance I’ve seen unless people are already looking for a fight) as long as you state your opinion respectfully and it’s not bigoted, people are usually willing to discuss/debate respectfully as well. 
 

Drama is going to happen everywhere, but I feel like DM has relatively little of it compared to other places. The only exception I can think of was last year which was new for everyone (and Reddit didn’t exactly allow unbiased discussion so we had a lot more people I haven’t seen since they got done arguing). 
 

These are just my thoughts/what I’ve noticed, and I think it’s good for people to form their own opinions after gathering information, so if you have a different opinion, that’s fine. It’s no more or less valid than mine. 

 

(Btw, this is pretty off-topic, so we might consider asking for the thread to be moved so as to not derail the original thread) 

Yes, way off-topic, but I think these conversations are important to have.

To get back on topic:

I don't think fantasy in general is hard to adapt to TV.  I think long-ass books and book series are hard to adapt to TV.  Not saying it can't be done, but that it takes a special person with a special vision to pull it off.  I don't think Rafe is that person.  I'd rather have nothing than a crappy show, but I also can see how other people are happy with whatever is out there.

WoT might even be an extremely difficult movie adaptation - though I hope someone tries one day.

14 hours ago, Raal Gurniss said:

Perhaps people are "encouraged" to disappear? I mean it has been mentioned that its not safe for people to critique the show here, perhaps such people get scared off after threats of a sinister death.

And perhaps people don't know how to interact is a respectful, adult manner; then they get called out by an admin.

I am probably the biggest (imho) antagonist of the show on this site, and not once was I threatened with any kind of discipline over what I have said.  I have received a few warnings over how I said it (rarely), and after I got done being mad about being called out realized that, yep I could have made my point without being a disrespectful troll.

Just my experience.

11 hours ago, expat said:

Just because you are wrong about the overall strength of the show is not a disqualification for an entertaining and useful poster 😇

LOL.  I can take being 'wrong' as long as folks know I'm being honest.  👍

1 hour ago, SinisterDeath said:

Valid Criticism = Not complaining about woke casting, or any derivative of wokeness. Not using all caps. Not using terms like "rolling in the grave", or "spitting on my childhood". Those kinds of "criticims" are sensationalist. They aren't in it to have a conversation. They remind me of "listening to your uncle at thanksgiving whine about politics".

Excellent. I have not fallen into invalid territory yet. 

3 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

And I do appreciate reading your valid criticisms of the show.

I know it can be difficult to walk the fine line that is criticism. Passions run high and nuance gets lost in this tumultuous void that is the internet.

And I appreciate your valid praises.  The problem comes in when we try to define 'valid'.  😁

4 minutes ago, WhiteVeils said:

👍

US Party Politics, just for starters.  If a political party (and I'm not picking either one) can stoke and turn something into a wedge issue to stir up its voters, it does so. That's why you hear so much complaining about 'Woke' shows...politicians profit from that stuff.   In addition, other countries benefit from a divided and fractured US culture. Russian and Chinese government funded trolls and bots do insert themselves into our pop-culture discourse, increasing polarization for their own political gain. It isn't the majority of social media negative interactions, but the effect is still strong, and likely getting stronger because it's working pretty well. 

Half of the Star Wars: The Last Jedi backlash was Russian bots and trolls - The Verge 
No, half of The Last Jedi haters were not Russian trolls - CNET
'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' reactions show how right-wing Twitter agitators adopted Russian tactics (nbcnews.com)

There's lots of articles arguing whether it was half, or only 10% or so, but in this case I'm not arguing how much of an effect it has, but that this influence exists in a statistically measurable fashion at all)

Not sure I see what you mean here.  Maybe the politics aspect is screwing me up.  Why would Russians or whomever want to spam ratings for Last Jedi, WoT or whatever?  What is the payoff?  No one does the work without some benefit, right?

4 minutes ago, WhiteVeils said:

 

Does sharing how strongly one dislikes the show enhance one's experience of the show, or does it reinforce itself by finding other like-minded individuals? I honestly don't see how complaining about something enhances one's own experience of that something, or enhances the experience others have of that thing? How does bringing your opinions and thoughts dragging a show, movie, book, etc, down, make the world a better place?  I guess I just feel like that would be terribly exhausting and depressing for everyone.

Thumper says: If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all.  

 

Sometimes you can't do that. If faced with evil, injustice, racism, sexism, bullying, etc, you have a responsibility to call that what it is and make it stop.  But, otherwise? Life's short.  People should get to like things if those things aren't actively doing harm.   Even if you hated Wheel of Time the show, letting people like it means that industry might be willing to put more time, money, and effort into things sort of like that in the future, which is all good for you.

No, I don't think sharing how strongly one dislikes the show enhances the experience, anymore than sharing how much I love it would enhance the experience.

In my case, WoT books are my all-time favorite (as I'm sure they are for many here).  So when the show disappointed on such a grand scale, I came here looking to commiserate with folks that were also disappointed.  So complaining doesn't enhance, but maybe I feel a little better knowing I'm not alone in my disenchantment.

Through the process I read heavily on both sides of the like scale.  I don't hate people that disagree with me, nor do I like people that agree with me.  We're all just a bunch of people that like/love WoT that get together to discuss it.

Obviously having people agree with me is gratifying to a certain extent.  But I'm looking for insights/views different than mine as well.  Maybe my 'hate' for the show is unwarranted or just over-stated due to my closeness to the source material.  Anything I respond to I have read and maybe that helps me moderate my views.  The show might be a 4 out of 10 instead of a 3.  Everything I've read here may help me look at S2 more charitably.

But in the end each of us likes/dislikes based on what's inside - whether it be a favorite color, ice cream flavor, sports team...

Sharing dislikes isn't evil even as sharing likes isn't inherently good.  They are all part of the same discussion.

13 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

Yes... and again, look where you are.

 

Those who make "hating" the show and/or book their entire personality, are the antithesis to this fan site. There's no safety for them here. They can find that on Facebook/Twitter/Reddit.

I don't do Facebook/Twitter/Reddit.  DM is all I have for WoT.  I'm a sad, sad little man...

While I do tend to love the books and hate the show, I think I'm fair in appreciating the shows strong points while acknowledging the weak points of the books.

15 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

Dragonmount. Fansite to the books & tv show. A place where people tend to... make the books their entire personality.

Or make cheerleading for the show their entire personality.