18 minutes ago, ConorReads said:

Patrick Rothfuss' series The Name Of The Wind followed by The Wise Man's Fear (waiting on third and final book) 

Ha!  I hear that Patrick has almost as bad a reputation as GRRM regarding finishing a series...

6 hours ago, Sir_Charrid said:

I think this is described really well at the start of book 3, when the Trollocs attack the winter camp we see Perrin think like a wolf, going for hamstrings then the throat with his axe for instance. He fights as one of the pack hunting down isolated trollocs and mydrall, It feels almost as if him not fighting like a typical human gives the advantage because how do you sword fight someone who is not following any of the normal rules of sword fighting. 

It would be good not to follow the normal rules of sword fighting since he is using an axe.  😜

43 minutes ago, WhiteVeils said:

We've seen set pictures of Cairhien and confirmed its in there several times.   The teaser does show images from Cairhien too, and Barthanes Damodred  has been cast.

Okay, so they could have had Thom but chose not to...

6 hours ago, JosephBurns said:

I've recently been doing some traveling, and doing research on different places to go.  Looking into Lisbon, Portugal, I've learned that its called a City with Seven Hills based on its topography.  For some reason it reminded me of WoT and I think one of the Cities of WoT has a reference to hills (But can't remember which); the same as Lisbon. 

 

This got me wondering if RJ based any of the WoT Cities on real world locations.  I always thought Ebou Dar, Illian, and Tear were based on actual places, or many amalgamations of several places, but I don't remember readings if this was the case or not. 

 

Anyone able to point me in the right direction?  Thank you.     

Rome is associated with 7 hills.  Also a biblical reference in Revelation. 

2 hours ago, Skipp said:

Alexandre Willaume says that he, Thom, won't be in season 2.

 

https://www.wotseries.com/2022/12/07/the-wheel-of-time-season-2-update-thom-merrilin/

 

Disappointing to hear as I really enjoyed Alexandre Willaume take on the character.  And while his appearance in book 2 was badass it wasn't really crucial to the story, same with his book 3 role.  Shame though it would have been nice to have his re-union with Rand in Cairhein.

 

But I will look forward to his return in season 3.

Dang.  New Mat and no Thom.  Bad luck and strange decision.  We'll see how it works out...

4 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

 

The very nature of the books, and the reading level/comprehension capability of various age groups, means teenagers and older will find the books, compared to young children & pre-teens.

There's also a fundamental difference in explaining a tent full of sweaty naked people just being naked in a book, and visually seeing a tent full of sweaty naked people, just being naked on screen.

Ironically, episode 6 included full frontal, it was just in the background. Like the books, the nudity was like the sweat tents. It wasn't sexualized nudity. It was just people going about their business. 

More good points.  This is why I come here.  Different perspectives help - even if I don't always agree with them.  In this case though - spot on!

Thanks @WhiteVeils and @SinisterDeath

26 minutes ago, WhiteVeils said:

 

I think they do this for a very good reason, and not just because they're compressing book content.

 

A show is an investment of time, and the first season, indeed, the first episode of a show, is what people use to determine whether or not they are going to watch a series. One of those groups of people who make decisions based on the first episode is parents.
 

As a parent of teens, I have to judge whether or not a show is appropriate for my children to watch based on their different ages.  If I was halfway through S2 watching a show that I thought was fine to watch with my teens, and suddenly got smacked with a full nudity scene or something out of Game of Thrones, I'd be more than surprised...I'd be furious. The show had promised content that was OK for my teens, and it would /not/ be.  Disclaimers at the episode start are not sufficient...they're easy to miss, for one thing, and 'partial nudity' or 'nudity' can mean  a HUGE range of different things depending on how the scene is treated. I'm fine with my teens seeing E1 Lan butt, for example, but not a wide range of things in GOT that show less nudity.  

 

In E1, ideally I would want a show to at least present how nudity, sex, and violence will be treated in the series in general, so I know whether that show is safe for my kids to watch.

The show does just that.  With the 'Lan butt/bath' scene, we know that there will be nudity, but it will be handled in a tasteful fashion and not 'full frontal in your face'.  With the Rand/Egwene scene in S1, and later the Suian/Moiraine scene, we know that, most likely, sex will be handled in a way similar to the books...a lot of 'fade to black' or off screen inferred rather than blatantly showing people having at it on screen.  And with Laila's death and the Trolloc attack, we get a good picture of how much intense violence there may be and the kinds of violence we have.

For people not parents, these questions are still important....maybe some viewers will be bored if there is no nudity/sex/violence, and will turn away if it looks too childlike in the early episodes.  The early episodes help set them up for what to expect too.

People are acting like the Siuan/Moiraine scene showed anything.  It didn't. Many things in the books showed way more.  How does showing them in Book 1 or book 5 make any difference?

Well said.  I see the difference.  But couldn't the same be said of books?  Reading 'Eye of the World' gave me no idea what Rand and his lady friends would be doing later.

12 minutes ago, expat said:

It is important to set the tone of the series in season 1.  There is a lot of sex/nudity in the books (steam tents, wise one visits to Rhuiden, rapes, Mat/Tuon, Mat and other girlfriends, Rand and his harem, torture scenes, Seanchan lightly dressed slaves, Forsaken lightly dressed pets etc.), just not in EOTW.  The level of sex/nudity in season one gives viewers a taste of how the series will handle the topic later on when it becomes unavoidable.     

Why?

These topics were introduced to us slowly in the books.  Why can't they be introduced as needed in the show as well?  Why does S1 have to set the tone for the entire series?  Can't a show evolve just as a book series?

Are they bringing in more of the sexy stuff earlier because of compressing the book content?  14 books down to however many seasons...

29 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

We have seen kissing and couple of shirtless men and one pair of boobs.

Don't forget Lan's butt. 😁  And Rand/Egwene getting busy at the inn.

29 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

It's very much in line with RJ's writing and even he went way more graphic and explicit at moments. I'm very happy it's not near GoT level of unnecessary nudity&sex 

My point wasn't whether it is right/wrong - just that I personally think it is way more than was in the books.  I did note that Jordan went way more graphic.  But as a percentage of the whole work (of books) there is a lot more sexual situations, nudity, etc. in S1 than was 'shown' in the books to the same point in the story.  For all the stuff they had to cut out for the transition to screen, they made some interesting choices of what was left in and/or added.

I think the GoT show was way more in line with the sex/nudity as the books.  It was way more 'graphic' than WoT but wasn't adding stuff not already present in the books.

3 hours ago, DigificWriter said:

Even if he hadn't done so previously, Rafe has now officially confirmed that Moiraine and Siuan did in fact ter'angreal for their rendezvous in The Flame of Tar Valon.

Sad for me.  Not the ter'angreal itself, but how much the sexuality has been pushed to the forefront.  Jordan kept this mostly in the background and up to imagination - with major exceptions (specifically Rand and his first time with each of his three partners).  Percentage of this stuff in the books was way lower than what was shown in S1.

But this is just a personal hang-up for me.  Modern audiences demand more titillating content than this prude is used to.  Perhaps it is just the medium though.  I never minded reading the sexy scenes in WoT or GoT (which was much more graphic), but seeing it on the screen introduces a level of discomfort for me.

Maybe a psychologist could unravel the contradiction, hypocrisy, or whatever it is...

Elyas is definitely a good one, but to be honest I'm not remembering much beyond the basic arc of the book.  Will be reading again in the coming year - then I may or may not replace Elyas with someone else.

8 hours ago, bringbackthomsmoustache said:

To give pedantic responses

- during the battle of Caemlyn Mat dies due to Rhavin's lightning and Rand thinks that the medallion failed against a male weave - but is in error.  In fact it only protects where the weave touches the wearer, the lightning blast area is a real effect once the woven lightning touches down and he could be effected by it just as he could be affected by thrown objects and could still pass a gateway.

 

- during the last battle only Gawyn uses the assassin rings, Galad and Lan each use a lesser copy of the medallion made by Elaine (my theory - both the lesser copy and the inability to match the non-channeling dream ring are due to these needing male and female co-operation).

Ah yes, thanks for the clarification. Definitely time to read the books again. 

5 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

During Last battle,

 

  Hide contents

I believe Lan gets from Galad, so he can fight against Demandred. 

 

No, believe that was the Seanchan assassin rings - not Mat's medallion.

But I may be forgetting something very important here.

3 hours ago, WheelofJuke said:

My recollection is that it protects from both, hence the ancient Aes Sedai symbol with both female and male halves represented.

Then I'd say Taim doesn't have a chance.  He doesn't care about using weapons, only using the power - he fights against Rand's edict to train with mundane weapons.  Mat would carve him up quick.

10 minutes ago, Stedding Tofu said:

 

 

I haven't read The Belgariad/Mallorean for over 20 years but didn't Belgarion, a man, kill Torak, a god?  There's plenty of room in fantasy for authors to create whatever worlds and rules they want.  The only constant is our heroes will be menaced by overwhelming forces of evil/darkness and will have to save the world/the day through courage, sacrifice and choice - free will - rather than a helping hand from The Big Guy In The Sky

Belgarion did indeed kill Torak. But he was a sorcerer, so not merely a man. And he also had the Orb of Aldur - a powerful object created by a god. So the deck wasn’t overwhelmingly stacked against him…

39 minutes ago, WheelofJuke said:

Thom and Asmodean.

 

Pretty sure Thom would question some of Asmodean's musical knowledge...

 

Lots of possibilities for some interesting interactions, if say, Thom went with Rand to the waste.

Love this one.

39 minutes ago, WheelofJuke said:

 

Mat vs. Taim, cagestyle, could've been fun.....

Is Taim gentled?

39 minutes ago, WheelofJuke said:

 

Cadsuane, Lini, Nynaeve, and Sorilea playing a Contract Bridge grudge match.

That might have been enough attitude to destroy Shadar Logoth without Rand doing his thing...

16 hours ago, WhiteVeils said:

Amazon Already Has The Next Great Fantasy Series, And It Isn't The Rings Of Power (looper.com) 

 

Thought you might like this article.

An opinion piece.  Imagine some people would like it.

2 hours ago, Dagon Thyne said:

Actually, I was pointing out that people who say that the two oaths would have the same impact were wrong, and that any similarities between them are completely incirmunstial.  It's like saying that a car and a plane are the same thing becaise they both carry people and are used for transportation.    

You are correct, they will both get you from Cleveland to Detroit...

3 hours ago, Dagon Thyne said:

Having something in common isn't the same as having the same overall impact on the story,

 

 

Correct.

3 hours ago, Dagon Thyne said:

 

 

which is what people were claiming.

 

My point wasn't addressing what people were or weren't claiming.  I was addressing you saying they are completely different.  They aren't.  They have several things in common which I listed.

The impact can be seen as subjective.  You are seeing them as completely different because the purpose of the oaths are different.  I'm seeing them as similar (not the same) because of what they have in common.  Similar, because 'wow' Aes Sedai have not done something like this before - so even though they have different purposes, I am comfortable putting them both in the 'same' category of similar events.  A big impact for Aes Sedai regardless of intended purpose.

42 minutes ago, Pandemonium said:

Carnival Row releases officially in February now.  Looks like it will be at least April or May to get season 2 of WOT.  Hopefully not fall 2023

Probably a stupid question, but is there something wrong with them both being released about the same time?  Or is it just the fact that nothing has been said about WoT yet so it won't be released in the 1st quarter?

On 11/25/2022 at 7:08 AM, Sir_Charrid said:

I also want to add, that Battle of Emonds Field scene demonstrates just how hard it is to turn the written word into something for the screen. 

That whole sequence (the actual battle of Emonds Field)  takes seconds to read after so much time spent reading the buildup. 

On the screen that "set piece" really needs what, 30 minutes at least of time just from the moment the Trollocs appear for that final battle to the moment Faile and Perrin see each other again, you could argue it might need longer. As a proportion of the book it is tiny, but that will mean other moments need to be cut and changed because. 

 

Yes.  But much depends on what the viewer/reader wants.  I'm fine with cutting other moments to get more time with battles.  Other folks will be willing to sacrifice fighting to show more political intrigue - and that can require as much buildup as anything else.

On 11/25/2022 at 7:08 AM, Sir_Charrid said:

You can compare it to Helms Deep, in the movie that battle is what, 40 minutes long, but in the books takes up about 10 pages (for the battle part) and JRR Tolkien described a lot more about the actual battle then Jordan does and really Emonds Field need to be WOT Helms deep moment (to the point I almost wish Faile had said, at sunrise on the 5th day look for me my love 😉 ) 

👍

1 hour ago, Sir_Charrid said:

The Oath Rod scene was there to show the Oath Rod that is talked about so much in the books. Again showing something important, now, we might not agree with the creative decisions around that scene (another thing I am not 100% on), but it is understandable why in season 1 Rafe wanted to set the foundation blocks of the important world building elements. 

So in season 1 Rafe has shown.

The Age of Legends was High Tech
What the Aes Sedai are about politically
The Oath Rod 
What the Bond is about 
Shadar Logath
Tar Valon
White Cloaks
The idea of a multiverse
TheTel'aran'rhiod (I think we will find this is where Morraine and Siuan met)  
The fact Rand is the Dragon 
Rands backstory (and through that the first glimpse of an aiel in battle) 
The Male and Female halves
Seanchan (in the final scene) 
The Forsaken (having met 1 of them) 
Burning out 

I imagine I have missed a load off of there, but, those where the important things that the viewer had to experience/learn about to set the scene for the world. A TV series is not like the books, you can't have concepts and ideas drop in book 5 you have to set the rues out early so when stuff happens later viewers don't feel cheated or that the writers are making up stuff to get the hero out of trouble. 

The fact is that Book 1 does not cover a lot of those things, in fact book 1 barely scratches the surface of lore and world building and that is great for a 13 books series, and it is also great given then RJ obv didn't know where his story was going exactly or what ideas and lore he would discover in the world as he went on that journey. But it is not good for a TV show where the screen writers clearly need to define those things early on. 
 

I agree with most - except for the bolded.  Why can't a show drop in new stuff several seasons in.  As long as it doesn't go against what is already established in previous seasons, I don't see why it can't be accepted just as a reader does the new material in books.  It just needs to be done well so it doesn't feel like a cheat.

Plus, we may not have known about the oath rod early on in the book, but we did know about the oaths.  Easy to accept because the base was there.

1 hour ago, Dagon Thyne said:

OK, again, the oath does completely different things. 

Yes, that is pretty obvious.   But it doesn't mean they can't have things in common.

47 minutes ago, Dagon Thyne said:

 I am pretty sure most viewers would see the oaths as so different in nature that the fact that they are both technically sworn to a sitting Amylin would be a non-issue.  

 

I am pretty sure most viewers haven’t read the books and don’t know of Elaida’s oath. So in the end this really doesn’t matter unless the show chooses to address it at some point. 

1 hour ago, Dagon Thyne said:

 2 things never having been done before does not make them the same thing.   People are claiming that the oes would literally do The same thing which is not true.

 

 

I didn't claim they were the same thing - but they have similarities:

• Sworn oaths involving Amyrlin
• Never done before - as far as we know
• Aes Sedai ceding power
• Considered scandalous

So while not the same thing there were enough similarities that might confuse the casual reader/watcher.