49 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

Thanks! What city are Mat and Rand in? Tar Valon?

Could be?

Also who's that guy dressed in white to Rand's left?

The visual of Nynaeve emerging from the pool full of Trolloc blood in the shape of the Aes Sedai symbol! They're really going heavy on the symbolism and I love it.

Also Mat's incredulous voice in the second clip is very in character.

7 hours ago, DaddyFinn said:

 

I expect someone to complain about missing black veil. Maybe it's lost during the fight.

 

Edit. These images are from an in-app teaser that some people have seen. Not the Nynaeve clip.

This is the other clip. 

https://youtu.be/Czv9b6r-m18

8 hours ago, DaddyFinn said:

Pretty nice. Tar Valon at night ? 

 

Aand Moiraine said "one of you". ?

They're doing this on purpose to keep us confused. Next it'll be "one of the six of you" (the sixth candidate is Bela of course) ?

A humble suggestion to the admins and mods: Maybe we should have one thread for venting about the things we're worried about, to discuss why we don't like the changes and why we think they won't work. And then another thread for theorizing about what we think we'll see in the show and how it might play out.

In thread 1, people who need to vent can vent without being told they're wrong or having their concerns dismissed. (I will happily join in because there are actually some things I'm not too thrilled about.)

In thread 2, people who want to nerd out about the show and come up with analyses and theories can do so without being told it's pointless because the show will be awful. (I will also happily join this because even though there are things I'm not thrilled about, there is still much nerding out to be done.)

8 hours ago, Wolfbrother31 said:

But after that, I'll be really curious to see if it ends up being the case that a bunch of ppl on DM - just have a really high tolerance for any changes...

 

Honestly? I think this is me. I have a high tolerance for changes. It doesn't bother me that a lot of things will be different. I find it exciting to have brand new story elements to look forward to, to not know exactly what's coming, to be able to theorize and speculate again, something I haven't gotten to do in nine years.

The books aren't going anywhere. I want the show to hold up as an excellent and engaging piece of media in its own right. Even if it's different.

But I also understand that this is not where many people are at. Some people are really bothered by the changes, and that's very valid. We're just coming from different places.

I'm not sure how to reconcile that though, because the result it seems is that many of the discussions here are at cross-purposes with each other. When some people try to break down the changes and use them as clues to theorize about what we might see in the show, others see it as trying to "justify" something that seems fundamentally wrong to them. And we're using different measuring sticks. If you believe that for a change to be acceptable, it has to be compatible with the existing book lore, and I don't, we'll never see common ground.

7 hours ago, Youss99 said:

 Well we do know it.  Since the heroes of the Horn came back and are always the same gender.  Birgette tells her story that she is always spun out after Gaidal Cain and marries him (or they get together, etc). 

Who's "we"? Who in Randland has access to a hero of the horn to have this explained to them?

The fact that we as readers know it is irrelevant. My point is that people in world have no reason to know definitely one way or another.

So the show could play with that. 

I'm not trying to say it's "okay" or "not okay" that they're doing this. I'm trying to think through how they might pull it off.

5 minutes ago, Beidomon said:

Yes. But also, it creates a delicious conflict between Aes Sedai hunting and gentling men even though they KNOW that one of them will be the DR. This all gets watered down significantly if the AS think it is possible for the DR to be a woman. I really can’t believe this is even in dispute. Again, nobody here would even be trying to argue this with a straight face even a few weeks ago. 

Yeah I don't think anyone's denying it's a change with several repercussions. It does change things. Whether or not we think it was a good call on the show's part is a separate question which I think we've already discussed to death. It's still interesting to think about how it might work in practice.

Just now, MasterAblar said:

 

Hey now Niall could kick ass in his prime. 

I don't doubt it, I just don't like him ?

The Five Great Captains (but in my headcanon it's Mat instead of Niall)

Edit- oops I missed that it was already said! Consider this my second vote then 

4 hours ago, themann1086 said:

I've been thinking about all this for a few days, and I'm starting to wonder if the situation is that the Prophecies don't include gendered language, and the Aes Sedai started to delude themselves that hey, maybe the Dragon Reborn won't be a boy doomed to go mad and destroy everything, again. Maybe it'll be a woman, one of us, and together we can fix what men destroyed. A combination of arrogance and wishful thinking that, technically, fits the wording of the Prophecies, but is really just lying to yourself. They don't want the Dragon Reborn to be a man, so they're going to look at all the evidence through that lens until long after it becomes impossible to deny reality.

This makes sense to me.

It's also possible that the majority of the world believes the Dragon will be male (because why wouldn't he be? He was male last time) but Moiraine and Siuan, having spent the past 20 years poring over the prophecies and chasing every possible lead, don't want to leave any possibility unexplored, no matter how unlikely, so they're considering that the dragon might be reborn as a girl.

Because really, how do they know that souls are gendered and retain their gender? It's not exactly something you can verify. So I could see M & S deciding it's within the realm of possibility that souls aren't in fact tied to gender, and choosing to cover all their bases just in case.

6 hours ago, AdamA said:

It raises the question of how much Moiraine really believes what she is saying in these promo shorts. Did they change her character and make her more naive at first or is this just marketers using the most public-facing Aes Sedai in the main cast as the official spokesperson of the organization to the uninitiated fandom? Will she be saying stuff like this in real episodes and will she mean it?

I was thinking something along these lines. They wanted to convey the Aes Sedai viewpoint and since Moiraine is the focal character of all the promo (and the show as presented so far), they had her say it, even if it's not the most in-character thing for her to say. New viewers wouldn't know yet that it's not in-character anyway, and there's plenty of time to add nuance as the show unfolds. This being the first minute of the show, they need to set the scene and convey some basic information in the simplest way possible, that they can then expand on, challenge and subvert later on.

That being said, it's also not untrue that LTT was arrogant (he admits to it himself). So it's not inconceivable that Moiraine genuinely thinks it. She probably also thinks a lot of other things that would add nuance to the issue, but they're just not having her say it all yet.

Siuan mentions prophecy here.

6 hours ago, Ryan al'Thor said:

I feel the opposite. He would still end up with Faile I have to imagine. We will know soon enough.

Well my point was that since it's already confirmed Egwene is a Dragon candidate, I hope that's the change Brandon thought would upset people. Because if it's not, it means he thought the Egwene change wasn't a big deal and another change was a bigger deal, possibly the Perrin change.

3 minutes ago, Reader said:

I took a look at the map and I think it's interesting that the Amadicia area has very little detail on it.  Which I think is either great insight for an Aes Sedai produced map, for obvious reasons, or maybe just dodgy lighting. Probably the lighting.

It does make perfect sense that the Aes Sedai wouldn't know much about Amadicia! Although I suspect they have eyes and ears everywhere even if they can't safely go themselves. It must be a perilous job though, being an Amadician who secretly works for the White Tower.

2 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

The WoT adaptation by Rafe is "Woke"

 

Then explain why they cast Eamon Valda as a Black Man, who hunts women down and burns them at the stake? A character that did unspeakable things to Morgrase?

 

That's not very "woke" to portray a black man as a killer and abuser of women... Is it?

 

Explain casting a black man as Padan Fain, one of the most evil, conniving, sadistic human characters in the series, who's very existence brought about the possibility of usurping the shadow and the light.

 

Explain casting a black man as a Savage wolf brother that can barely control his emotions and not kill the people he loves?

 

 

Yes, this show is sooo very woke, and will never, ever be criticized for being not woke enough.

I know you're being sarcastic, but I just want to say that yes, the show will absolutely get criticised for these three things and is already starting to be.

But look. Whether it's "woke" or not is something we'll never agree on because nobody even has the same understanding of what "woke" means and the goalposts keep moving. So fine. I'll say it.

The show will be woke.

Is the anti-woke crowd happy now?

Good.

Because I still want to talk about all the cool and intriguing things that are coming.

1 minute ago, king of nowhere said:

actually, it seems a fair plan. if wot gets positive reactions, he can conclude that maybe they did a good job despite this red flag, and watch it maybe more open minded. if they've done a bad job, he'll see negative reviews and not watch.

 

let him be. we can agree to disagree and move on, everyone.

Yes please.

3 minutes ago, Maximillion said:

 

I understand that they have made the possibility of a female DR a reality in the show.

You are seeking to understand why that might be ok - when it simply is not.  That is called trying to justify.

 

I am not seeking to understand why that might be okay. I am seeking to understand the ramifications on the plot, the impact on the lore, and the hints it gives us about how the story might unfold. I'm curious. How will it play out? What will we see by the end of the season? A few seasons down the line? What will change? What won't? These are things I'm interested in.

I am not interested in value judgements. I am interested in practicalities. And I am discussing these practicalities here.

You keep on trying make me stop discussing them. You have no standing to tell me to stop talking. If you don't like what I'm saying, that's not my problem.

4 minutes ago, MasterAblar said:

 

Interesting as that is, that sounds insanely impractical. Imagine having to balance every sentence you say like that. ?

I know right? Which is why I was like "but HOW"

No wonder they stopped speaking Old Tongue in Randland ?

13 minutes ago, Maximillion said:

 

What 'understanding' are you seeking?

They departed from the books and made the possibility of a female Dragon part of the lore - which for many ruins the story.

There is not much to understand - they either did it for purely financial reasons to be more 'inclusive' or just purely for modern day progressive cultural reasons, or both.  

You believe there's nothing to understand. That's your prerogative. But don't go telling other people they're not allowed to try to understand. How is this hard? Don't tell other people what to do.

8 minutes ago, king of nowhere said:

yes, please. I'm sure i'm missing a lot. Sarah's comment? where?

interesting stuff? the previous short clips we saw in the last days, two rivers and winespring inn, didn't look like they had anything new.

this one... besides the voiceover, and the angreal, was there anything else to notice? i didn't even realize the black figure was the angreal, so i'm sure i'm missing a lot of details

I was referring specifically to the Moiraine clip that's the focus of this thread and the new IGN clip that's being discussed in a different thread.

Sarah's Twitter comments were quoted on page 7 of this thread:

- She answered a question about Callandor saying that it needs to be pulled from the Stone by the hand of the Dragon, and that souls are still attached to the pattern in the show (which is a very Aes Sedai answer, which makes me want to dissect it even more lol).

- She also talked about the Old Tongue and how it's a gendered language (I was speculating that it might not be, I was wrong) and that it's structured in a way that every sentence has a balance of male and female-gendered words which is super fascinating to me from a linguistics viewpoint (how does that even work? I want to knowwww)

My questions about the Moiraine clip that we haven't discussed yet:

1. Does anyone recognize the angreal from a book description? It doesn't seem to match any angreal I remember from the books, but also my memory is terrible.

2. This looks like the White Tower, right? I even thought for a second that we saw the Amyrlin Seat (the actual piece of furniture) in the foreground while Moiraine is looking at the map, but upon rewatch I think that's wrong. It's probably something else that looks similar. But I'm not 100% sure. It just doesn't make sense for her be in the Hall of the Tower for this, right?

2. Has anyone zoomed in and unblurred the map to reveal secret information? I know this fandom is capable of it, but we're getting so much content these days it's hard to keep up lol

19 minutes ago, Maximillion said:

 

Stop with this.

The DR being a female. the Ads Sedai thinking the DR could be female and the people of the world RJ created thinking the DR could be female is a complete departure from the lore and the story that RJ wrote.

If that is ok for you that Is completely fine.  No one can say what is acceptable to you other than you, but please don't try and justify it as anything other than a huge departure from the story told.

 

What do you want me to "stop"? Stop stating facts from the books?

I never said that the DR being a woman or the people in the Westlands thinking DR could be a woman isn't a departure from the books. Literally, I never said this. It is very obviously a departure.

I am not trying to "justify" anything. I'm trying to understand what the people making the show are thinking, why they're making the choices they're making, what they're basing their ideas on, and what it implies for what we're likely to see in the show. Because, you know, there's a show coming out, and I find it exciting and intriguing to delve into what might be and what's in store for us?

I do not appreciate being told to "stop" just because you don't like the changes. I'm allowed to discuss the changes and try to understand them in a forum that's dedicated to this topic. If you don't want to hear me analyze and speculate, go somewhere else.

5 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

Correct. And I think that this will be the case in the show as well. And I'm not making the case that Egwene could be the Dragon.

 

What I am saying is that by not specifically saying the Dragon must be a man (and not changing anything else), they keep open the theory that Egwene is the savior.

 

Because of the way Game of Thrones ended, people are primed for the "this character we have been rooting for turns out to be evil" type of ending. But nobody really loves that ending. So when Rand is at his worst, Egwene is at her best. So people can root for Egwene. And a subset of those people will craft the theory that Egwene is the real savior. 

Yeah, an anti-Dragon. 

I like this a lot. It also plays into the never-confirmed fan theories that Egwene is Latra Posae reborn.

7 minutes ago, WalterKohl said:

Not sure what you are trying to say here, but in the books people didn't believe he was the Dragon even when he completed some of the largest signs, and remember pretty much  NO ONE knew there was a connection between the Aeil/Car’a’Carn and the Dragon Reborn….    The idea that the show will stretch this out for the viewer longer than it was for the reader is not surprising, it’s actually a pretty good way to keep people interested.. 

I agree with you! However it will be harder to fool a genre-savvy audience. I already have non-book reader friends who figured out Rand is the DR just based on the way the promotional materials are shot.

But they can still play it in a way that makes it understandable why people in-world don't believe Rand until very late into the series. It was the case in the books, but since we were always in our protagonists' heads, it was kind of difficult to understand and sometimes frustrating because *we* know Rand is the DR so we just want everyone to fall in line already. Making it more ambiguous for the show would help us understand why everyone doesn't believe him right away.

Yeah I agree I have a hard time seeing how they can keep up the doubt in a believable way while Rand keeps on fulfilling prophecies. And I'm pretty sure we're getting something Callandor-adjacent at least because Tear is on the map in the Prime Video "Explore" thing. I don't see any reason for Tear to be on there when so many other places aren't unless they're highlighting it as part of the prophecies (maybe Logain is on his way there with his army when he's captured?)

But the idea of making Egwene more of a direct rival/alternative throughout is still interesting. Who knows. I'm curious to find out.