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Posts posted by Finnssss22
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Unless we see Rahvin playing an instrument, It has to be Asmodean doesn't it?
We'll see I guess.
So on another note, I was obviously wrong thinking they merged Lanfear and Semirhage.
So that said, if Lanfear has been more cruel and brutal than she was in the books, how far do they have to go with Semirhage now? That's kinda scary to think about.
- DreadLord31, Figs and Mice and Skipp
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Oh, that is what I missed!! Thanks. I totally forgot about Jain.
And they did a similar thing in the show but instead of Jain, Ishy used Suian's dreams to plant that seed.
Obviously season 1 had some issues but one thing they got right was Ishamael's orchestrating pretty much everything that happened in that season. Unfortunately they were too subtle about it and it wasn't made as apparent as it probably should have.
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I definitely caught this reference. I also went back to watch that cold opening to see if they ever name dropped her in in the cold opening (they did not), so only people who read the Xray, or her casting would know her character name. 😉
Which I would argue is absolutely show only and I don't know many who don't pull up the Xray to help remember names.
I also fully expect more on this to come out next week.
- Vambram and SinisterDeath
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I'd argue the assertion that dropping the name Tigraine reveals anything unless, like me, you're a Spoiled Show-Only person.
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They also casually dropped a massive reveal for show only folks dating back to the s1e7 cold open.
Let's see who has been really paying attention 😉
- SinisterDeath and Vambram
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I do understand Fain has delusions of grandeur, and perhaps I have indeed been fooled. But to me it's a storytelling thing. The way it was written didn't work for me. And I'm definitely not alone in this. As I understand it's one of the main criticisms on Brandon's WoT books.
Anyway, let's agree to disagree. 🙂
No, no, that's fair. I also believe RJ would've set it up Fain's final flop better.
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Very much disagree. Padan Fain is an important character who comes back regularly and causes a lot of trouble. You don't know (and can't know) what role Fain was going to play. You can only have an opinion about it, and if you feel like Fain's ending was appropriate, that's cool, but I feel like the character deserved more than he got. His ending to me felt like an afterthought.
You can compare it to the Prophet. Sanderson probably had very little to go on for him as well, and decided too many things were going on already, so he cut him out in the beginning of book 12. This made sense to me. If he wanted to do the same with Fain, he could have had Mat kill him somewhere in the beginning of book 13. That way, Fain wouldn't be part of the grand finale and perhaps I'd be more okay with it. It could have been used as an action-packed part of the beginning, to jump-start the book. The way it's written now, Fain pops up briefly here and there, and then kind of comes out of nowhere in the finale, after which he just dies in two paragraphs. I'd say either develop him more and make his ending more impactful (perhaps have him kill an important character before Mat destroys him), or just Masema him out of the story in an opener somewhere. But I'd go for developing him more. Fain's been with us since the very beginning and he nearly succeeded in killing Rand several times. Whenever he shows himself, cool stuff happens (as opposed to Masema who is very much part of the slog). I wanted more.
But you do understand that him boasting/thinking he's outside the pattern is completely self delusional right?
Shadar Logath and its evil was literally created by the Pattern to provide Rand a way to cleanse saidin.
All that evil does is consume everything around it and itself.
Only reason Fain wasn't consumed was because of what Ishamael did to him to make him into a hound for the Shadow much in the same way the 2 evils in Rand's wound hold each other at bay.
Fain and the SL taint are integral to pushing Mat to what and where he needs to be and what he needs to do.
Fain is integral to pushing Perrin to what and where he needs to be and what he needs to do.
Fain is integral to pushing Rand to what and where he needs to be and what he needs to do.
That is what the pattern set Fain up to do.
We're talking about a guy that is completely insane by book 3 at the latest. Doesn't accomplish anything that doesn't have to do with pushing the boys and literally runs away at the slightest resistance over and over and over.
Other than his own mad ramblings and delusions of grandeur there is absolutely nothing to indicate he will accomplish more or deserves to be greater other than in his own mind.
I'm telling you, you have been fooled my friend.
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Ishamael was actually spun out twice. It was in the Trolloc Wars that he earned the title Ba'alzamon.
That was actually him in the flesh going around the world and launching Trolloc invasions in all three continents.
The next time he was spun out, he acted as Wormtoungue tried to Theoden. Only here, he fully achieved his aims with Hawkwing, when the King sent his two heirs to the other continents on Ishamael's first word, then turned him on the Aes Sedai and his subjects with the second.
It's actually 4 times.
He was only partially sealed and could touch the world for about 40 years every 1000 years.
First time was the EotW prologue and his temporarily giving LTT his sanity back is what leads to the creation of Dragonmount.
Second time was as Ba'alzamon and organised the Trolloc Wars and started the Black Ajah.
Third time was as Hawkwing's advisor Jalwin Moerad where he convinced Hawkwing to siege the White Tower eventually forcing the Aes Sedai to adopt the 3 oaths. Then convinced him to send a large portion of his forces and heirs across the ocean with corrupted versions of the K-cycle ensuring conflict upon their return.
Finally killing Hawkwing before he could fully solidify his empire's future.
Fourth time was just a few years after Rand was born evidenced by his killing of the former head of the Black Ajah Jarna Malari (for her unauthorized mass killing of boys born around the time Rand was) and promoting Aviarin to that position.
He created Slayer, set up "The Farm", turned Fain into a Hound for the Shadow and manipulated Jain Farstrider into delivering the message that would draw Moiraine and company to the Eye of the World.
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8. Padin Fain needs more in the last part of the story (obviously). Maybe he can nearly take over the battle, and we can have Nynaeve come up with the idea that Mat may be able to help, go fetch him and he saves the day. Perhaps we need a different solution here, as Mat has too much to do in that scenario. I'm not sure. Maybe we need Padan Fain to be defeated earlier. End of the first act of the final book, maybe. This one's challenging to fix.
No, Fain was never going to be a big baddie in the end.
You were fooled by his ramblings and delusions of grandeur. The guy was completely insane by the end of book 3 at the latest.
The Shadar Logath Taint was created by the pattern so the Dragon could cleanse saidin 2000 years later and Fain was created to give each of the boys individual pushes towards their proper paths.
He was never outside the pattern despite what he believed.
His final purpose was done after slashing Rand across the previous wound and it was just a matter of time until the pattern corrected him with Mat who was set up to do so from almost day 1.
His death was anticlimactic because it was supposed to be. He was never what he believed he was.
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Anytime Ishy was spun out he started something to ensure the world wouldn't unite and keep things in chaos. Getting Hawkwing to turn against Aes Sedai and then the war over his empire, Trolloc Wars, then a 2nd Trolloc War to try and destroy Hawkwing's empire, etc. Ishy would always do/start something to try and destroy what was being built.
This is the actual answer ad most people glossed over it for some reason.
Ishamael is the reason...
-Dragonmount exists
-The Black Ajah exist
-The Trolloc Wars happened
-Manetheren and the rest of the 10 Nations are either gone or just remnants
-The Aes Sedai have to swear the 3 oaths
-The Seanchan exist and have corrupted versions of the K Cycle
-Hawkwing's Kingdom would never survive whole
-Slayer exists
-Malkier was destroyed
-Moiraine and company went to the Eye of the World
-The "Village" exists
-Taim knew as much as he did with the Power
-Aviarin's predecessor as leader of the Black Ajah is dead
I'm sure there's a few other things I'm missing off the top of my head but the jist of just how ridiculously he influenced the state of the world by the time Rand was born should be pretty clear.
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Demandred makes the most sense to cut. He’s a non character and then comes out of the blue. I really wonder if Jordan had a plan for him that he never got around to writing?
There were hints in the notes that Jordan hadn't 100% decided where Demandred was with King Roedran still a possibility for a while before going full Red Herring with him.
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Forgot to mention Lanfear naming Moggy and Graendal by name then referring to the rest as the boys which would lean towards the Lanfear/Semirhage merge and no merge of Demandred and Sammael leaving the last 2 as Demandred and Rahvin.
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So we have 5 confirmed
Ishamael
Lanfear
Moghedien
Sammael
Graendal
???
???
I think we all agree the figurine with the musical instrument is Asmo leaving only one more.
I don't think we're getting Demandred, I think they're merging him with Sammy especially after the info in spoiler above.
I also don't think we're getting Semirhage as I think she has already been merged with Lanfear. Lanfear in the show is far more cruel. kills indiscriminately and even enjoys it. This is far more in line with Semirhage.
Lanfear in the books rarely killed except during fits of anger as she pretty much thought it was beneath her almost like killing someone with her own hand would acknowledge they were a threat to her or her equal and no one was her equal.
So who does this leave us with?
Mesaana
Aginor
Balthamel
Be'lal
If that one figurine is indeed a 4th female, it's obviously Mesaana or I'm wrong about the Lanfear/Semirhage merge.
Or
That figurine is actually a male in fancy clothes, is Rahvin and they aren't merging Sammael and Demandred.
Thoughts?
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It was the explosion of Elayne's Gateway. It destabilized the pattern for miles around it and caused weaves made in it to become more unpredictable and harder to control.
If we we're talking D&D terms, it created a Wild Magic zone.
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From what I understand the companion was based on RJ's original notes and he changed many power levels in the end. Cads was originally stronger than Egwene and Elayne but below Nynaeve. She ended up about the same level as Nicola which is above Moiraine and Siuan but below Egwene, Elayne and Avi.
However, Cads has A LOT of toys that I don't think we even found out what half of them do.
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@finnsss22 see I don't even remember! Which episode 🤔? I need to rewatch season one. Damn, I didn't realize it was that unremarkable! I can remember adley had thick eyebrows and hopwil had a big nose, but i can't remember Moiraine using an angreal on a visual media? Light help you, Rafe Judkins.
She had it right off the bat and was using it to defend the Two Rivers.
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I believe Cadsuane was mentioned in passing by an Aes Sedai in one of the WT scenes. I can’t remember which one though; would need to re-watch and update this thread. Anyone else remember noticing that? I was excited to hear it at the time, because I assumed it meant we would meet Cadsuane later, and I enjoyed her character in the books.
My guess on Verin is that she is a Darkfriend. That’s such a fantastic element of the books that I can’t see it being left out without a good reason. With Verin having a sister named Adelas in the show, I assume Vandene is subsumed in Verin. So with the S2 example of Barthanes being ordered to kill his aunt, and possibly his own mother if necessary, maybe we’ll see Verin struggle with being ordered to kill Adelas?
I think in fact Cads has been mentioned in passing at least twice, possibly 3 times now. I know for sure she was mentioned in S1 and then again by Elayne in S2 when talking to Egwene about famous novices living next to each other.
I guess the real determining factor for Cads will be if Moiraine "Dies" or not. Cadsuane doesn't really have a "job" if Mo doesn't as Cad's was pretty much her replacement with Rand starting in book 7.
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the choen dal wouldn’t have solved that problem. Also, I have no idea what methods could be used to heal a tear in the fabric of the universe. Maybe they could have wrapped it temporarily, cutting off Darkfriends from DO, maybe even trapping Forsaken inside. Then with the head of the beast temporarily cut off, find a more permanent solution.There was no solution at that time. While LTT originally resented the Woman for not helping, the amalgamated Rand/LTT came to understand that the Woman not helping was the right call and that it was highly likely Saidar would've also been tainted.
Even though Callandor was made during the War of Power, it's flaw was discovered quite quickly and more or less shelved. Its importance wasn't revealed until about 80 years after the Sealing of the Bore during the Breaking when Deindre Sedai's foretellings of the Prophecies of the Dragon sent the Nym to the Eye with the Dragon Banner, the Horn and a Seal, constructed the Fortress of Tear to hold Callandor and eventually created Rhuidean setting up the Glass Columns and the Rings.
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Naw, Manetheren at its peak had a whole system of paved roads and bridges. They traded easily and often with other Nations. They were a wealthy trade Nation. Most of those bridges were destroyed on purpose during the Trolloc Wars to slow them down.
You have it backwards, they adjusted from trade to defense during the Trolloc Wars.
The Fall of Manetheren was the beginning of the end of the Trolloc Wars. The Shadow threw the majority of its resources into destroying Manetheren and it cost them so dearly accomplishing this that they never took another forward step after, only backwards as they were pushed back into the Blight.
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Malazan Book of the Fallen
10 books but fair warning, those 10 books rival Wheel of Time's 14+Prequel for total size and it drops info on you at a record pace at times.
Great series and some absolutely stand out characters.
It's loosely based on the adventures from multiple D&D table top campaigns in a custom world the author's created back in 1982.
Many of the characters featured are based on actual player characters from those campaigns over the years and the story is a weaving of those campaigns together into an epic tale.
It's a very good and very fun series.
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What would you change to improve the series?
in Wheel of Time Books
Posted
Books 1-3 were originally 1 book and was an homage to Tolkien and LOTR.
So far as I understood, as 1 book is was far too large for publication and it was broken up into 2 and then finally 3 books.
Book 4 is when RJ really starts getting away from the LOTR chasing/being chased meta and begins really building on his cultures, world and begins to tighten/tidy up his magic system.
There's a lot of things in books 1-3 that we later began calling early bookisms due to them not really following the rules established further into the series.