What would have happened to Saldea and the Two Rivers?

[WOT1402]

This was definetly one of those loose ends. Elayne seemed convinced that Manetheren might secede from Andor and that if Faile became Queen of Saldea this would de facto create a powerful new dynastic Union on Andors borders.

 

Now, the inexplicable does happen and Faile becomes Queen of Saldea. Do you think that eventually that would have occurred? I mean Perrin is King in all but name and te people of the Two Rivers seemed increasingly interested in such a move. Plus Faile could be quite, ambitious, when the mood took her.

[jack of shadows]

you have raised an interesting point,

the two rivers is not going to secede from andor and unite with saldaea,

perrin and faile signed two different agreements effectively blocking such a move.

elayne granted the two rivers to the dragon reborn,not to perrin,legally speaking,

perrin is not a king,he is not even a lord(it doesn't matter what he is or isn't de facto),

perrin is steward of the two rivers in the name of the dragon reborn,so again,legally

speaking,the two rivers belongs to the dragon reborn and his children,not to perrin

and his(future) family.(with this agreement in place,elayne became,ostensibly at least

rand's liege lady lol).

the second agreement,the dragon peace, is even more law-restrictive,let me quote 

two of its conditions:

1."it locks the borders of your nations to their current positions".

 

2."barriers on marriage between rulers of nations unless the two lines of rule are clearly divided".

 

post last battle,faile and perrin,would have to decide if they are going to accept the saldaean

throne,or renounce it and return to the two rivers as stewards.

during the alternate universe battle between rand and the dark one,rand visited the two rivers

a century after the last battle and watched lady adora,emond's field mayor and perrin's

granddaughter giving a commemoration speech,so maybe rand gave us a glimpse of the

shape of things to come.

[WOT1402]

Wouldn't that mean that Elaynes children would inherit the Two Rivers? Revert back to Andor? They are Rands children after all so no need for Stewards? Did she mention that likelihood to Perrin and Faile? I can only vaguely remember the discussion.

 

I mean I'd imagine that Faile would become Queen of Saldea and that would be quite cool.

 

It's mainly because in MoL it's mentioned offhand that "Faile will be Queen of Saldea now" without any qualification or debate. So I took that to mean that this happens after the books because why else set I motion the events to make her Queen if that wasn't where you were going?

 

Strictly speaking you can be king of Saldea and Duke of the Two rivers. To use the analogy of how Norman England, the French King was technically liege Lord over Normandy but William was also a King in his own right. So the borders could stay the same. Also it's hard to bar marriage with two people who are already married and Perrin isn't strictly speaking a royal ruler to begin with.

 

The vision could be assuming the more likely scenario of Faile not having all her relatives die. It was quite unlikely that the young queen and her parents would die.

 

Did RJ plan to do an outrigger book with Perrin and Faile?

[jack of shadows]

no, the agreement between elayne and perrin's line is in perpetuity,

the dragon reborn "death" in the last battle changes nothing really,

post last battle,perrin would become steward of the two rivers in

the name of the dragon reborn's children.

 

"also it's hard to bar marriage with two people already married.."

LOL,that's right,i'll tell rand to declare their marriage null and void

on the grounds of excessive levels of stupidity, lol-are you happy now?

[WOT1402]

Yeah but Perrins not going to live forever and MoL implies that Faile becomes Queen of Saldea. At some point they'd either have to divide the inheritance between the children.

 

But defecto Faile being Queen of Saldea and Perrin being Steward, or any of their children would still leave them as part of the same country. I mean don't see why BS left that plot line hanging if it wasn't a clear cut "she's a Queen like Nynaeve." If they had wanted her to give up the throne then I imagine the only place to do it would have been at the end of the book.

 

Define perpetuity? Even after Rands children mature? Which of Rands children exactly? They're not going to stay young forever. So unless that's where all the Aiel went I am guessing the Two Rivers would revert to Andor and Elaynes children.

[mb]

Some of Min's Viewings seemed to predict Perrin getting Saldaea's crown.

"Broken Crown" Viewing; Eye of World.

Faile perching Perrin's shoulder; Dragon Reborn.

something happening to Bashere; Knife of Dreams.

 

Rand's children could mean any of his children.  Elayne's (at least 2), Aviendha's (at least 4); and maybe Min's (unknown).

[DemandredFO]

Because chanellers live so long and Rand is whatever, the peace will probably last a while but at some point Rand will depart and the last survivor of TG will be dead. The old order will collapse soon after the watchers leave

[jack of shadows]

rand is whatever? is he even mortal post last battle?

[Orderofolde]

you have raised an interesting point,

the two rivers is not going to secede from andor and unite with saldaea,

perrin and faile signed two different agreements effectively blocking such a move.

elayne granted the two rivers to the dragon reborn,not to perrin,legally speaking,

perrin is not a king,he is not even a lord(it doesn't matter what he is or isn't de facto),

perrin is steward of the two rivers in the name of the dragon reborn,so again,legally

speaking,the two rivers belongs to the dragon reborn and his children,not to perrin

and his(future) family.(with this agreement in place,elayne became,ostensibly at least

rand's liege lady lol).

the second agreement,the dragon peace, is even more law-restrictive,let me quote 

two of its conditions:

1."it locks the borders of your nations to their current positions".

 

2."barriers on marriage between rulers of nations unless the two lines of rule are clearly divided".

 

post last battle,faile and perrin,would have to decide if they are going to accept the saldaean

throne,or renounce it and return to the two rivers as stewards.

during the alternate universe battle between rand and the dark one,rand visited the two rivers

a century after the last battle and watched lady adora,emond's field mayor and perrin's

granddaughter giving a commemoration speech,so maybe rand gave us a glimpse of the

shape of things to come.

I don't want to be that bucket of water getting tossed into the mix, but I just wanted to point out those agreements burned with the palace

[Sabio]

Anything with the dragon's peace is still in effect.  I guess you could get a new leader who says I want out I never signed it.  But why would they?  You would be on your own, you attack someone you will get pounced on by everybody.  Someone attacks you, you won't be getting any help.  Not to mention with both Perin and Elayne still alive.  Neither is hardly likely to deny they had an agreement.  The palace being burnt doesn't change anything.  Every ruler was probably given a copy of the dragons peace.

[jack of shadows]

@orderofolde,

feel free to toss as many buckets of water as you like,lol,

the five major participants in the agreement between elayne and

perrin i.e.elayne,morgase,alliandre,perrin and faile survived the last battle,

a burnt palace or even a burnt city won't change a thing.

regarding the field of merrilor meeting,post last battle,we have two rulers,

one head of an institution and one clan chief confirmed dead,ituralde(one

of rand's followers) would succeed king alsalam as the king of arad doman,

cadsuane(one of rand's former counselors) would replace egwene as the 

head of the white tower,it is unclear who would succeed rhuarc as clan chief,

but i don't foresee any problems with the taardad aiel,they were rand's staunchest 

supporters,the problems with the succession in saldaea are not big enough to

jeopardise something as monumental as the dragon peace.