Jump to content

DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

WOT1402

Member
  • Content Count

    31
  • Joined

  • Last visited

  1. Oh yes, I absolutely hated them after the second book and every attempt to humanise them fell on deaf ears. In fact it got worse after they introduced Tuon. Which in turn almost ruined Matt for me as I felt he never acknowledged how bad Tuon. See I thought their reasoning was flawed from the beginning. If you’re afraid of an atom bomb you don’t start bombing everyone. How is using channellers to murder people preventing their powers being abused? As opposed to the group of channellers who forsake violence against non-Darkspawn? Plus they aren’t rational. They needlessly, cruelly abuse their damane and (including Tuon) relish having that power over them. Which is sick and twisted. What I meant was that the villain should have got their comeuppance rather than being treated like one of the good guys who didn’t do any of the work and took all the credit.
  2. Personally I would say no for a few reasons. Damame can’t link and they don’t have an Adam that works on men. Whereas you have a much larger and more proficient Aes Sedai including male channelers. Given that the series laid so much stress on “men and women working together are stronger” this seems to be a glaring weakness of the Seanchan. In Memory of Light, a group of male and female channellers destroy a whole army of Trollocs. So the Seanchan could learn new abilities but they would be totally outclassed and the numbers and skill advantage they had would wane after Memory of Light. Even during the books, male channellers demolished the Suldam with embarrassing ease. Female channellers main strength comes from their ability to link. So by definition, Seanchan channellers should be much weaker if they insist on using the Adam on them. This didn’t come in to play during the books because they had numbers and experience. In conventional forces its difficult to say because the number of Seanchan is unclear. However it’s implied to be greater than that of the rest of Randland and the Aiel combined. This army seems to be disciplined and has a solid officer corps. It also has monstrous mounts at its disposal. Plus, it’s very likely that they would, as shown in Aviendhas vision, take gunpowder technology for themselves. So here they would still have an edge. The Seanchan defeated the Shaido Aiel and have a track record of beating any Randland army they fight. However, much of this can be ascribed to their use of Suldam. The quality of this infantry can also be questioned compared to some of the more elite formations such as the Borderlands knights, Two Rivers longbowmen and the Andorran army. The Aes Sedai also have their own army. So instead of a smattering of militia, you instead have many experienced and well trained soldiers used to fighting alongside each other. These armies performed extremely well in the last battle. You would also have to consider the leaders. Basically they have Tuon and she is a Stateswoman and not a General. Most of her generals are depicted as competent. Matt is very unlikely to help her take more of Randland. However she would be facing Perrin and Elayne; two great leaders. Lan up in the borderlands with Nynaeve. We can also infer that the Seanchan prepared their invasion in advance with information from their scouts. So they only brought an army equal to the task of conquering Randland as they found it. The fact is that the events of the book transformed Randland into basically a collection of very strong kingdoms with a revitalised core of mages. It is also very likely that a tyrannical and despotic regime like the Seanchan would struggle to control and brainwash its own citizens. It would struggle to justify the maltreatment of Damane if, across the border and in living memory there are examples of channellers who literally saved the world and provide prosperity. Will the people of Ebou Dar submit to having their daughters taken into slavery and tortured? Rebellions have begun for far less cause than that in the real world. It would also have to introduce heavy controls to prevent information on the Suldam being channellers getting out. Such oppressive measures would stifle freedom and create resentment against the government. This, again would contrast with the benefits of a reunited white and black tower. It could mean a return to the prosperity of the ancient past. So they would rapidly overtake the Seanchan in technology and magic. Essentially, the Seanchan would be greatly weakened by trying to impose their way of life. Indeed, their occupation would probably end similar to the Soviet Union in Eastern Europe; refusing to change and falling behind until it implodes. Personally I think the vision Aviendha saw was a warning and wasn’t a potential future; it assumed everything went wrong.
  3. I would have had the Seanchan sign a treaty agreeing to return home and release all the slaves they held. This would be a mercy for having taken part in the Last Battle. This would be grey as you would be pardoning the war crimes of their leaders and other acts which are greater than many of the characters allied with the Dark One. So there would be no justice for the victims but the war could end peacefully. Instead you see an evil empire covering half the continent that we know could go genocidal and dash everything that was sacrificed in the war. Plus they keep all their slaves. I still do not understand how that is a satisfying end to their story. Tuon is a monster. She’s barely any different to the Forsaken and point blank refuses to change her ways despite being told the truth. She is a rank hypocrite who revelled in having power over other people.
  4. Actually yeah, couldn't Aes Sedai just use their new found knowledge f the dream world to kill the Seanchan leadership and channellers?
  5. Because I find it odd that you would go on and o about how powerful the characters are supposed to be but never do anything with that. Be kind of cool to see that instead of being an armchair character or wandering about getting captured. It really was a running joke how many excuses they came up with for why they couldn't use their powers. Because they often aren't POV characters wen that happens and it's usually backgrounded stuff. So yeah we have a sentence saying Birgitte or Egwene does something and that's it. There's little to no POV fighting with the female characters relative to the amount of material involving those characters and the genre. It's epic high fantasy I kind of do expect at least one of them to be involved in some sort of fighting. Whereas in a few fight scenes like Moraine blasting the Trollocs in book 1, Nynaeves fight vs Mogh and the last battle stuff it is foregrounded. Moraine doesn't do a lot past the first book and the other female characters aren't as hands on. My assumption was that at least a few of the characters would be like Moraine but that never happens. Basically my expectation was that it was going to be a really OTT high fantasy series where the female characters would be really cool and powerful. That just isn't the case. They're mostly not involved in the fighting and there's a tendency to focus on more travel and politics. Whereas with Rand, Perrin and Matt it's front and centre as you'd expect from a High Fantast series. It's very rare that you get something like, I dunno, it's Egwenes POV, they're being chased by Darkspawn, they make a stand on a bridge and a big fight ensues. There's lots of occasions where those sorts of situations are actively avoided even when it's likely they might occur. For example Matt is running from the Seanchan but he later get the Red Hand and turns the table. With the girls the POV either switches to a guy so we don't get much of them (Falme) or they get away before a real fight happens (Ebou Dar).
  6. Well it's a poor case she makes. Think about how her society justifies what it does? They believe that ALL potential channellers, irrespective of if they use the power, are automatically evil and subhuman. They believe channeling must be directed by normal humans with conscience because channellers are automatically evil subhumans. Now, this isn't like Dragonage where you can kind of see the argument that possessed mages are a threat. So their view is implicitly wrong, normal humans are as likely to be corrupted by the Dark One. There's also a colossal amount of hypocrisy in being fearful of channellers who broke the world yet believing it's just to turn them into weapons for the state or even personal ambition. The Seanchan use the power to kill far more people than all the rogue channellers and false dragons put together many times over. Basically in Dragonage there's more of a real moral dilemma whereas with the Seanchan they are obviously just doing it to use the channellers as weapons for their colonialist ambitions. Which is fine as long as the Seanchan don't come into contact with anything that challenges these stupid self serving assumptions. Firstly, they see lots of channellers who are clearly not evil and even groups who are incapable by oath of harming another. Let's assume they bury their heads. They then find out, as does Tuon, that all the Suldam are channellers. She makes the argument that "oh but I don't use the power". Which is bull because: A) the Seanchan indiscriminately round up all potential channellers irrespective of if they use the power. B) The Seanchan believe all channellers are subhuman. So logically, Tuon should know that she is a filthy channeler who is a danger to everyone around her. Unless she's just going to bury her head and decide to not tell anyone and continue senseless enslavement and cruelty for reasons she herself believes don't apply to her. If she believes that channeling itself is evil then she shouldn't be using Damane at all, the Seanchan hate channellers because they are subhuman and evil. Tuon completely twisting things to suit herself. So it's a terrible case to make and full of holes and blatant self serving bull. This woman is trying to justify an atrocity on grounds she knows don't make sense. So Matt just accepts that rubbish at face value and doesn't call her out on it. This would be fine if Tuon changed her mind later in the series. But she doesn't. So I just don't see how she could be viewed with anything other than contempt. I really don't see how Tuon could believe what she was saying without being a two faced hypocrite and a liar.
  7. Yeah but Perrins not going to live forever and MoL implies that Faile becomes Queen of Saldea. At some point they'd either have to divide the inheritance between the children. But defecto Faile being Queen of Saldea and Perrin being Steward, or any of their children would still leave them as part of the same country. I mean don't see why BS left that plot line hanging if it wasn't a clear cut "she's a Queen like Nynaeve." If they had wanted her to give up the throne then I imagine the only place to do it would have been at the end of the book. Define perpetuity? Even after Rands children mature? Which of Rands children exactly? They're not going to stay young forever. So unless that's where all the Aiel went I am guessing the Two Rivers would revert to Andor and Elaynes children.
  8. Wouldn't that mean that Elaynes children would inherit the Two Rivers? Revert back to Andor? They are Rands children after all so no need for Stewards? Did she mention that likelihood to Perrin and Faile? I can only vaguely remember the discussion. I mean I'd imagine that Faile would become Queen of Saldea and that would be quite cool. It's mainly because in MoL it's mentioned offhand that "Faile will be Queen of Saldea now" without any qualification or debate. So I took that to mean that this happens after the books because why else set I motion the events to make her Queen if that wasn't where you were going? Strictly speaking you can be king of Saldea and Duke of the Two rivers. To use the analogy of how Norman England, the French King was technically liege Lord over Normandy but William was also a King in his own right. So the borders could stay the same. Also it's hard to bar marriage with two people who are already married and Perrin isn't strictly speaking a royal ruler to begin with. The vision could be assuming the more likely scenario of Faile not having all her relatives die. It was quite unlikely that the young queen and her parents would die. Did RJ plan to do an outrigger book with Perrin and Faile?
  9. I mean at the very least just get their army to leave Randland and give back all the people they enslaved. I mean that was bare minimum. That's turning the other cheek for their atrocities and unprovoked aggression. Personally they should have just taken the place of the other army that shows up at the Last Battle and fled the continent after the books.
  10. It really is strange. All te other manipulations of the Forsaken are undone and righted at the end of the series. But not for Seanchan where te rot is left. I ve read different things about this. Did RJ plan to write a book with Matt and Tuon. I saw a few quotes saying he wasn't going do books with the same characters or even same world. It felt really odd that plot points set up in te second book regarding the Seanchan never amounted to anything since only Tuon learned about the lies and decided to stay the course. Because she's evil. If he did then my assumption is that people would find out that Tuon is a channeled and use that to justify deposing her. Which would compel Tuon, along with Matts influence, into changing her mind.
  11. The only Seanchan we meet are members of an invading colonial army. I am pretty sure there are lots of people the USSR oppressed who would have had no qualms about killing members of the Red Army or NKVD. So when I say kill Seanchan, to be specific, I mean this army of fascists. We never see any Seanchan civilians, but given that they have pogroms against their own people I wouldn't call them a model society. But yeah, if you could get all the Seanchan army in a field and put them down then that would be a good thing. I honestly don't think Rand would have thought twice about it if he could have done it without destroying the occupied cities. We spend like 12 novels of our heroes doing exactly that and nobody complains. Killing them all is no more or less immoral than what the heroes did. It's self defence as long as they continue to occupy half the continent, make unprovoked attacks against the other half and enslave and torture innocent people for stupid reasons. I mean could you imagine if Red Dawn happened and the US gave up half the United States to the Stalinists so they could deal with a greater threat? If that situation happened and they started enslaving your people would you not think that's something that would get people wanting to fight back and hate that occupying army. That's the situation at the end of the series. That's the deal they make. They make obscene concessions to this faction. I don't like how the series resolved their storyline. Why is it that all the villains get what's coming to them, evil Aes Sedai, all the Forsaken, the Whitecloaks ad everyone emerge for the better; except the Seanchan. There's no justice for the hundreds of thousands they murder, the people they enslave and torture, taking the first steps towards the genocide or cultural annialation of the Sea Folk and Aiel. No recompense for the fact that they helped the Dark One right up until the last few books. Them getting away with everything they did is extremely out of touch with the rest of the series. Yeah, it's a fictional faction and Iam talking about them as a reader of the books. I thought they were a horrible story idea and one that left a bad taste in the mouth. I am being colourful in my language but I did feel that the author gave them a free pass despite being one of the most evil factions in the series. Why make all other villains get their due but not Tuon and her bug armoured Stormtroopers. It wouldn't have been a big deal if RJ hadn't made such a good job of making Egwenes captivity such a really emotional part of her story and it stuck with with me. I really wanted Egwene to get revenge on these people, just as much as the usurpers in the White Tower; if not more. I don't think that's too difficult to understand being annoyed that we re just supposed to trivialise that and all the horrible things the Seanchan did.
  12. I mean there isn't any justice to it. The head of the Aes Sedai who opposes Egwene gets turned into a Suldam and her faction humiliated. But the Seanchan aren't? Even though that faction and Tuon do far more evil and imperil the Last Battle than any other group? Also turning her into a Suldam? Nobody deserves that. Its not funny that that happens to her. It's not the same as Nynaeve getting Moghdian, because it dignifies what the Seanchan do and their system. I mean we needed the Soviet Union to win WW2 but that doesn't mean I'd enjoy the idea of the Gulag and Stalinism. Much less having characters like Matt getting associated with them.
  13. Well yeah, linking only requires you to be in the same room as any other Aes Sedai. So unless the Seanchan got every single Aes Sedai by themselves they would have lost. It doesn't require a lot of planning. As shown by Egwene, who beats them near enough single handed whilst depowered. Which was an awesome moment sullied only by the fact that so few dirty Seanchan died. Also, it was pretty stupid that Egwenes besieging army wasn't able to shoot down the attackers or intervene more decisively. I mean why didn't they go for the army outside of its walls? Didn't Egwene have more channellers by that point? Isn't that the more obvious point of attack. I mean we the audience know that those channellers are much better and that army she has is much better and led by one of the best generals in the world. But the Seanchan have no way of knowing this and they seem to constantly underestimate their opponents anyway. Personally I think all of those Seanchan should have died and had their heads thrown through a portal and dumped in Tuons throne room. What else does RJ want me to feel for these people other than contempt. Making Moghdiam and the bad Aes Sedai a Suldam is just plain distasteful. Why punish them and not the Seanchan? The Seanchan woman who was serving the Dark One wasn't even worse than Tuon or most Seanchan; she just did essentially what was always their plan because it directly aided the Dark One. Yet RJ made a big deal out her getting what's coming when really she's not the problem. It's the criminal enterprise that is the Seanchan. Oh yeah I forgot that. The Seanchan also leave their assassins to murder Aes Sedai and indirectly kill Egwenes love interest. It's not like the world is ending or anything. You know, priorities instead of Tuon doing more to sabotage the heroes than the Forsaken.
  14. This was definetly one of those loose ends. Elayne seemed convinced that Manetheren might secede from Andor and that if Faile became Queen of Saldea this would de facto create a powerful new dynastic Union on Andors borders. Now, the inexplicable does happen and Faile becomes Queen of Saldea. Do you think that eventually that would have occurred? I mean Perrin is King in all but name and te people of the Two Rivers seemed increasingly interested in such a move. Plus Faile could be quite, ambitious, when the mood took her.
  15. Why don't they suffer more from diseases and illness then?
×
×
  • Create New...