[Advanced] Gods and Demons Mafia - All your souls belong to Shad (Triads win)

monstrman · January 19, 2016

This game is advanced. The balance of this game will change as the game progresses. This was mentioned in the signups.

I am 95% certain that 3rd parties exist out there.

Maybe, but I'm not really worried about them until scum are dead

Also unrelated: I believe BFG is a villager

Why?

Why not?

Zander? · January 19, 2016

Zander. You didn't respond. Perhaps you missed my post.

I'm feeling good about Lenlo. You haven't swayed me in that regard, and are frankly just coming off as defensive.

But if you are town, please give me a reason not to vote you. Who do you think is scum so far?

During my reread you certainly are moving into my Red Reads.

Cory Caboose · January 19, 2016

i'm a mountain that has been moved

i'm a river that is all dried up

i'm an ocean nothing floats on

i'm a sky that nothing wants to fly in

i'm a sun that doesn't burn hot

i'm a moon that never shows it's face

i'm a mouth that doesn't smile

i'm a word that no one ever wants to say

Lenlo · January 19, 2016

Cory what's the VC?

Zander? · January 19, 2016

You keep referencing Matrix for things I say against you.

We were scum together that game, pushing each other. If I used those arguments against you in Matrix, and you were scum in Matrix, wouldnt that mean I might be right? At the very least it implies we are both wolves so we should /still/ lynch you.

Nope cause it wasnt why i was right about you in Matrix, It was just youre reads lists and the fact that you couldnt do anything really to stop it. And for someone who "claims" to be able to read me so well should know META is a LARGE part of how I make my reads!!!!

So those werent reasons you were right about me being wolf in matrix, so your using them as reasons to be push me being wolf in this game?

But they were right and same with Lenny in WoW and for someone who says they read me well (im pretty sure im posted what im about to say in OUR Maf QT for Matrix) I go after the EXACT same things when bussing as I would go after as Town. I feel like you should know this since you know me so well....

BFG · January 19, 2016

This game is advanced. The balance of this game will change as the game progresses. This was mentioned in the signups.

I am 95% certain that 3rd parties exist out there.

Maybe, but I'm not really worried about them until scum are dead

Also unrelated: I believe BFG is a villager

Why?

Why not?

I struggle to read you, I steeped goathydraKey horribly last time we played, I'm hoping explanations will help me read you.

In general I always think my unwillingness to vote/give reads early/really push people makes me generically scummy early on. With meta I'm an easy(ish) read, very easy for some :dry: but it's been well over a year since we played in a game together so...?

Zander? · January 19, 2016

Someone said something about "if you lynch me, I win".

I wrote it off as trying to sound like a jester to not be lynched, but I'd like other opinions. I can pull up the quote if you need me to.

It was Len who youve placed as Town. Does this color your read of him any differently. And why or why not?

Cory Caboose · January 19, 2016

Vote count:

Zander - 3 - Lenlo, csarmi, Hallia
Lenlo - 1 - Zander
alannalynn - 1 - Nolder
Eldrick - 4 - Shad, Turin, John Snow, manbat
BFG - 1 - Pralaya

Phase ends in roughly 3 hours!

Lenlo · January 19, 2016

You keep referencing Matrix for things I say against you.

We were scum together that game, pushing each other. If I used those arguments against you in Matrix, and you were scum in Matrix, wouldnt that mean I might be right? At the very least it implies we are both wolves so we should /still/ lynch you.

Nope cause it wasnt why i was right about you in Matrix, It was just youre reads lists and the fact that you couldnt do anything really to stop it. And for someone who "claims" to be able to read me so well should know META is a LARGE part of how I make my reads!!!!

So those werent reasons you were right about me being wolf in matrix, so your using them as reasons to be push me being wolf in this game?

But they were right and same with Lenny in WoW and for someone who says they read me well (im pretty sure im posted what im about to say in OUR Maf QT for Matrix) I go after the EXACT same things when bussing as I would go after as Town. I feel like you should know this since you know me so well....

Another example game of you bussing your scummate.

BFG · January 19, 2016

I'm here, just very tired.

Can you talk to me about Dice and Laine?

Dice looks towny so far from what I can tell. There was some mechanics talk right at the beginning with the PM comparison and such, but then he got right into it with multiquoting and gameplay, so I'd give him a town lean. I know with myself it takes me a while to lock a read on him, because I don't have the best track record reading him.

Laine is around null for me atm. I haven't made my mind up, though I have seen a few good posts like this one. Gun to my head I would lean her town as well.

This leaves me with a really big town pile and a not so big possible scum pile. There are still nulls though, so hopefully time will give me more to reasess those.

I agree with pretty much everyone on your list except Zander and Shad, both of whom I have as null right now. Why is Zander high on your list?

Lenlo · January 19, 2016

Cmooon. Don't let Zander escape.

monstrman · January 19, 2016

I struggle to read you, I steeped goathydraKey horribly last time we played, I'm hoping explanations will help me read you.

In general I always think my unwillingness to vote/give reads early/really push people makes me generically scummy early on. With meta I'm an easy(ish) read, very easy for some but it's been well over a year since we played in a game together so...?

I have a hard time explaining my reads outside of "you feel villagery" sometimes

I'm not really an easy person to read, I guess, to people that don't know me. I also haven't been putting much of an effort in to be cleared so much as make my opinions known.

But yeah, you feel villagery is the best I've got, don't really know what else to say

Zander? · January 19, 2016

Specifically - your early claim felt calculated, and is obviously posted to try to garner easy town reads. I can see this coming from you as either alignment. Your post where you asked Lenlo about your OP also shows that you're AWARE of your meta this game and appear to be purposefully trying to garner a new meta, except Lenlo doesn't use meta, given you do you should know that, except Lenlo is using meta on you this game so I dunno.

So why are you specifically altering your approach this game?

Im altering it for REASONS IVE ALREADY EXPLAINED!!!!

its posts like this that are frustrating me. I said WHY I claimed and explained it. Ive always been aware of my Meta like see Bellicheat and Matrix.. LEN HAS BEEN USING META for a large part of his read on me!!!!!

So we're at an impasse at least on this

You purposefully changed your approach this game to try to get early town reads. This reads to me as calculated, because it is, so WHY should I treat this as town? Your reason to do it is alignment neutral as everyone wants early town reads.

And I know Lenlo has been using meta on you specifically this game and I've already asked him about it. I say as much in the post

Let me ask you this youve now that you've backtracked on your read of me with your TLDR, what are you reading me as currently? How do you feel about my explanations about the Bold?

And why SHOULDNT you treat it as Town?

I haven't backtracked on my read on you. I had you as null, I have you as null, I don't read you easily and it takes a while for me to read you for myself. There are a few approaches I can see from town!Zander this game (specifically your reaction to me) but I tend to find calculated play as scummy (read all your early posts). Generically town are going to be more relaxed and care less about how they come across. And that is something I've always associated with your game, it's also something I've miscleared you on, so it isn't a 'tell' as such, just something I associate with you in general.

Regarding the bold, your explanation is null. I struggle to believe that you think that this is a viable method to clear yourself, but that goes for you as any alignment.

Because the motivation is equally(/more in a generic sense - generic because you consider town getting town read important to) likely from mafia. Mafia need to be town read, town need to hunt mafia and also get town read (but it's not the only priority)

Really??? Youve never played with players that are calculated as Town....????!!!

Zander? · January 19, 2016

Is that fear I see in your eyes Zander? Is it fear that im reading in the tone of your posts?!

AM I A PSYCHIC?!

I dont fear anything Im just not gonna be happy when wolves can hide behind your vote Zander idea and mislynch me.

The fact that you think wolves are going to follow Lenlo's joke vote from sign up is an implication you don't think Lenlo is mafia at this point.
Weird conclusion. I don't see where Zander's statement denies the possibility that scum!Lenlo might follow pre-roll!Lenlo's joke.
Because they're following Lenlo's vote in this game. The idea originated in the signup, but the following and votes would be happening in this game

I was going to vote regardless of who else voted. I'm betting the other votes are the same way. Following the petition idea. Most of the votes have solidified for other reasons, though.

So you dont think anyone who jumped on could be Scum?

Hallia · January 19, 2016

@BFG - I didn't officially say, but I will now: I do have a town lean on Eld, barring a re-read focusing on him. At work on mobile, so that probably won't happen until I get home

Shad_ · January 19, 2016

Maybe the only time I ISO someone and take notes all game. Hey, 23 pages, I can still do that without killing myself!

Eldrick:

#76 you vote Zander

#93 you say you thought the plan to auto-lynch Zander N0 was serious. Upon being asked what you thought of Laine's unvote, you say you'll suss her for backing off if Z flips scum.

#101 Zander's opening claim is null iyo

#110 Asked what if Z flips town, you say we'll "learn something from how people acted about it" and you won't suss Laine for unvoting.

#116 Questioned about #101, reiterates that it's null, mentions that 3p could have also received purple text.

#120 Says he is no longer voting Zander as a joke. ~~But in #93 you suggested that you had taken it seriously from the get-go.~~ He is now voting Zander because he thinks that, if Zander is scum, Laine's unvote implicates her as scum as well.

#125 Questioned about #116, again reiterates that it's null.

#129 Reiterates that Laine would not look scummy if Zander flips town because the flip would nullify his concern that she unvoted to protect a team mate. Mentions that if Laine is scum but not Zander's team mate, she would have no way of knowing whether Zander is town or simply some other faction not aligned with her. Says that if Zander isn't scum Laine is probably not scum either, because scum wouldn't unvote.

#162 Says that players tend to forget that not all games are just a single scum faction against town, but there could be other factions, so scum!Laine wouldn't know Zander is town just because she's not aligned with him. ~~This sort of internal disconnect is part of what makes Eldrick difficult to read. I believe he could make this statement as town.

#252 Explains that his initial vote was not "serious" but that with a 24 hour time limit any option is as good as the next. Laine's unvote, however, means that we can potentially learn something from Zander's lynch in particular. ~~Again, the disconnect is probably more null than it appears.

#256 95% certain that there are more than two alignments in this game.

#275 Glad to be town, feels good about Lenlo

#278 Explains that Zander should be lynched rather than Laine because the scumminess of her unvote is conditional upon Zander being scum.

#284 Hasn't found anyone, to include Zander, scummy yet, but wants to resolve his concern about Zander/Laine w/w.

#288 Says if Zander flips town, well, we were likely to mislynch anyway, and if he flips scum then we have a lead on Laine, so Zander is the way to go today.

#292 Likes Zander's attitude, says he's valuable as town and doesn't want to lose that, but he doesn't think Lenlo is scum. Asks Zander if he can convince him to unvote. ~~At this point Eldrick is pushing for a lynch on one of the only two players in the game he has said something positive about.

#310 Restates his question when Zander doesn't answer, thinks Lenlo is town, calls Zander defensive. Asks him to defend himself/say who he thinks is scum besides Lenlo.

#318 Calls out the OMGUS when Zander names Lenlo and BFG.

#328 irt BFG, uses "pushing" in a weird way: "her questioning could easily be seen as pushing. Trying to figure you out. Looking for a reason for you to be town or scum." ~~Not sure if he's saying either/or (null) or suggesting he thinks she's towns. Asks Zander for his opinion on why he should vote her.

#335 Says he fully intended to vote Zander coming into this game regardless of who else did, but most votes on Z have solidified for other reasons atp.

#343 Says Lenlo has given a reason to vote Zander (his case), BFG has given a reason to vote Zander (he feels more calculated than a towny ought to), he has his own reason for his vote (Laine's unvote).

#349 irt 328, says he thought BFG was questioning Zander with the intent to push him. ~~This says absolutely nothing about how he interprets BFG's intentions.

#360 Zander calls Eldrick out for fence sitting in #349 ~~rightly so~~ Eldrick doesn't get it. "Whether I think bfg is pushing you or not? Why does that matter? Who pushes who changes all game."

#365 Doesn't think Zander is scummy. Calls him null and really hopes he's own, wishes he had a reason to vote someone else. Reiterates that he's voting Zander because Laine unvoted him. Acknowledges that it's a weak reason.

Eldrick, you're a curious cat for me because I think we often draw drastically different conclusions from the same situation as either alignment. I'm not sure how to distinguish scum!Eldrick flat out lying from town!Eldrick pursuing a course of action which simply makes no sense to me. Help me out here.

Your game, as I see it, has consisted of voting Zander because he was "supposed" to be the D0 lynch, then strengthening your vote when BFG asked you what you thought about Laine unvoting based on the assumption that she would do this as scum if Zander was her team mate, then proceeding to repeatedly claim you really don't want to lose Zander if he's town but he's going to have to present a better option to you. He suggested Lenlo, you said no, you think Lenlo is town. He presented BFG, you shot that down with a seemingly null interpretation of her actions so far.

In #129, you suggest that scum!Laine would want to lynch town!Zander, so scum!Laine would not unvote if Zander is town, whereas scum!Laine would want to protect scum!Zander, so scum!Laine would unvote if Zander is scum. Therefore Laine is likely to be town if Zander is town and scum if Zander is scum. Do you think that town!Laine is less likely to unvote Zander if Zander is scum?

Town!Laine wouldn't know Zander's alignment. It's possible that the only reason she voted was the petition vote, and she wanted to remove it before things got out of hand. Do you disagree that her unvote looks bad for her if Zander is scum?

How do you normally hunt scum? Explain to me, if you could, the approach you typically take to determine who you ought to lynch. Do you think that my decision to unvote Zander and vote you instead has implications for me if Zander flips scum?

How do I hunt scum: I look for inconsistencies. I look for things worded weirdly, and things that sound like they have too much information. Once there are scum flips, I look for who avoided interacting with those people.

As for implications about your moving your vote to me, if Zander flips scum: Null. both town and scum over their vote if they see something they consider better to vote than what they currently have.

In #120, you characterized your initial vote as a joke, however you have also stated that any lynch is as good as the next due to our time restrictions, and you seemed to suggest in #93 that lynching Zander was quite serious. Was it serious or a joke? If it was a joke, what about Laine's unvote strikes you as more likely to be a protective move than simply an act of moving on from the joke?

I touched on this in my last post, but I will do more so here. I thought the petition was a serious thing, and was treating it as such. I was planning to vote him out of the gate, and was not surprised when other did the same thing. It wasn't a joke vote to me. After other people referenced the votes as joke votes, I realized I was alone in this way of thinking. Being my initial reason was because of the petition, I said it started out as a joke vote. My reason for voting gained more substance when Laine unvoted, when Lenlo had serious reasons for voting him, and when BFG had suspicions because of his calculated play. These reasons made sense to me for him to continue to be the lynch for today.

On the other hand, I have liked his game so far. I don't like that he's my top candidate for lynching. It's a serious conundrum.

While you have not explicitly called Zander town, you have pointed to things he's done which you have liked, and you have suggested that he is null at worst. You have suggested that it is up to him to show you a better lynch candidate if you want him to unvote you. If you saw another player take your current stance, would it bother you?

No. I don't see a problem with asking someone for a better option than themselves for your vote, and reasons why. Not only does it help you decide who to vote, but it also helps you see who they are looking at and why.

My biggest concern with you is that I'm not convinced the Zander/Laine connection you've been drawing is remotely honest.

"Town!Laine wouldn't know Zander's alignment. It's possible that the only reason she voted was the petition vote, and she wanted to remove it before things got out of hand. Do you disagree that her unvote looks bad for her if Zander is scum?"

Your argument for Laine was not valid. I worded my question the way I did rather than stating it outright because I think a town player is generally more likely to think things through and go "oh wait" when lead in that direction than a scum player--because town is really trying to figure this out. If you are acknowledging that there would be nothing out of the ordinary about town!Laine unvoting town!Zander in this instance, and you are acknowledging that town!Laine wouldn't have a clue about Zander's alignment atp and thus would be no less likely to unvote scum!Zander, then Zander's alignment doesn't say squat about her. If she is town, she would have unvoted regardless of whether Zander is town or scum. If she is scum, you think she would have unvoted Zander if Zander is scum but kept her vote if Zander is town. I disagree, but at least that's something. The if scum!Laine then scum!Zander line isn't a good argument, but it's an argument. The if scum!Zander then scum!Laine argument is simply false.

"I touched on this in my last post, but I will do more so here. I thought the petition was a serious thing, and was treating it as such. I was planning to vote him out of the gate, and was not surprised when other did the same thing. It wasn't a joke vote to me. After other people referenced the votes as joke votes, I realized I was alone in this way of thinking. Being my initial reason was because of the petition, I said it started out as a joke vote. My reason for voting gained more substance when Laine unvoted, when Lenlo had serious reasons for voting him, and when BFG had suspicions because of his calculated play. These reasons made sense to me for him to continue to be the lynch for today."

If you mistook the petition for a serious idea, then immediately upon realizing that town!Zander is an above average asset and his content thus far is null at worst, you should have concluded that it was a bad serious idea. But at that point you had the Laine connection to sustain your vote. A second problem is: if you are recognizing that everyone else took it as a joke, then it seems to me you've eliminated the foundation of your "connection". I mean, unless you think scum will push to lynch town explicitly for lulz and stick to that. Doesn't mean they can't be w/w, but you're basically sussing someone for failing to ride a joke vote all phase, and using it to justify lynching someone else who you think could be of above average value to town. That is... pretty weird.

"No. I don't see a problem with asking someone for a better option than themselves for your vote, and reasons why. Not only does it help you decide who to vote, but it also helps you see who they are looking at and why."

There is nothing wrong with wanting to know where Zander stands, no. But when your reasoning amounts to little more than "I drew your name out of a hat to be my D1 lynch and I'm not moving unless you show me a better candidate," you're passing your responsibility to hunt scum off onto another player. This is why I asked if it would bother you to see someone else do it.

BFG · January 19, 2016

Also that manbat guy is prob scum.

You have two days to prove to me you aren't scum or you're dead 100% of the time

Harsh, but fair.

Was your Manbt read a 'stir the pot' read or genuine? Either way, why?

Zander? · January 19, 2016

Is that fear I see in your eyes Zander? Is it fear that im reading in the tone of your posts?!

AM I A PSYCHIC?!

I dont fear anything Im just not gonna be happy when wolves can hide behind your vote Zander idea and mislynch me.
The fact that you think wolves are going to follow Lenlo's joke vote from sign up is an implication you don't think Lenlo is mafia at this point.
Weird conclusion. I don't see where Zander's statement denies the possibility that scum!Lenlo might follow pre-roll!Lenlo's joke.
Because they're following Lenlo's vote in this game. The idea originated in the signup, but the following and votes would be happening in this game
I was going to vote regardless of who else voted. I'm betting the other votes are the same way. Following the petition idea. Most of the votes have solidified for other reasons, though.

Explain this to me please?

Lenlo has cased his reason for you to be scum.

My reason is Laine's unvote. I feel this needs to be cleared up.

BFG feels your playing more calculated than town should.

Barring something major on finishing my reread Im going to vote you.

Sooh · January 19, 2016

I'm here, just very tired.

Can you talk to me about Dice and Laine?

Dice looks towny so far from what I can tell. There was some mechanics talk right at the beginning with the PM comparison and such, but then he got right into it with multiquoting and gameplay, so I'd give him a town lean. I know with myself it takes me a while to lock a read on him, because I don't have the best track record reading him.

Laine is around null for me atm. I haven't made my mind up, though I have seen a few good posts like this one. Gun to my head I would lean her town as well.

This leaves me with a really big town pile and a not so big possible scum pile. There are still nulls though, so hopefully time will give me more to reasess those.

I agree with pretty much everyone on your list except Zander and Shad, both of whom I have as null right now. Why is Zander high on your list?

I already talked a bit about Shad, and like I said, part of my read on him is wishful thinking coupled with a few of his posts which have been good.

Zander is a town read for me because he's relentless and tunnell-y as both town and scum, but as town he is also paranoid about people and their positions on him, and he has no filter as to what's going on in his head, so he'll literally post every thought he has, even though those thoughts are to stubbornly refuse to understand other people.

As scum he still pokes, prods and tunnels, but he doesn't have the same paranoia about everyone, he reserves that to the one person he's attacking, and if he has the time, one or two more. Like in his previous game, Warcraft mafia, in which he focused all his suspicion on a couple of people, while still asking questions of a bunch of others, but those questions had no insecurity or paranoia behind them.

I don't know if that's understandable. It's like trying to explain a feeling.

Zander? · January 19, 2016

BFG is town

I may have asked this but I dont remember but why?

BFG · January 19, 2016

Cmooon. Don't let Zander escape.

Did I ask/have you explained your Eldrick read? Wasn't your response to his 'fun being town with you this game?' 'likewise'? Yet you're watching him? I'll check in a minute

Zander? · January 19, 2016

So?

He's asking your opinion on what you think I'm doing, why shouldn't I give the answer?

I dunno because maybe the reason I asked Eld was because I wanted to hear his response?

:rolleyes:

Sooh · January 19, 2016

*snip*

Really??? Youve never played with players that are calculated as Town....????!!!

Tbh, regarding this discussion -

Zander, you said you did it as a reaction test. I don't believe you did. I think you were happy and excited about randing town, and possibly having a way to irrefutably prove it by posting your claim in color. Then, when you were getting heat for it, you had to rationalize it, and that's what you came up with. I still think you're town, just a townie trying to explain his actions.

Zander? · January 19, 2016

Eldrick, have you explained why you find Zander scummy yet?

Because Alanna unvoted me ldo.....lolololololol

BFG · January 19, 2016

I struggle to read you, I steeped goathydraKey horribly last time we played, I'm hoping explanations will help me read you.

In general I always think my unwillingness to vote/give reads early/really push people makes me generically scummy early on. With meta I'm an easy(ish) read, very easy for some but it's been well over a year since we played in a game together so...?

I have a hard time explaining my reads outside of "you feel villagery" sometimes

I'm not really an easy person to read, I guess, to people that don't know me. I also haven't been putting much of an effort in to be cleared so much as make my opinions known.

But yeah, you feel villagery is the best I've got, don't really know what else to say

Ok, what's your opinion on Csarmi?

[Advanced] Gods and Demons Mafia - All your souls belong to Shad (Triads win)

Recommended Posts

Archived

Stay Connected

Forum Topics

News items

About Dragonmount

Twitter

Facebook