[Advanced] Gods and Demons Mafia - All your souls belong to Shad (Triads win)

Zander? · January 24, 2016

Check BT, I believe it was two games there? I've been playing for four years, so that's a loooot of games v.v

I don't believe you'd have such an obvious tell, so is just me being lazy

BFG are you 3rd party?

dicetosser1 · January 24, 2016

i cant tell you game names bfg but ive seen hallia do it before

Yeah, I think I have but the only games I can remember specifically are games where she's claimed.

Does she have a preference for doing it as town or mafia from what you remember?

town iirc as scum i think she claims only under pressure

BFG · January 24, 2016

@BFG I'm town reading Monstr and I played with him in Rustlemania. It's more of a gut thing than anything else, but I feel him similarly to there.

@Zander You know that doesn't mean anything Zander.

i disagree its obv not a lock but i caught Tab with that in NBC

Tab isn't Pral ldo

TY for clarifying that I wasnt aware.

Sarcasm?

:p

But more seriously, I've seen Pral browsing games he's been playing in, post nothing and ultimately flip town. This sort of thing isn't alignment indicative for him, although I don't know what is. He could also be mafia this game, but if he is this isn't a tell as far as I know.

Feelings on Pral now?

Arghhhhh

In a vacuum or in comparison to everyone else?

He's had 3 or 4 posts with 'real' content.

He has limited time to play and will generally catch up ~30-40 pages a day 'regardless' of alignment. I don't think he ever plays at the weekend (OLDSKOOL!DM) so his absence at this point is sort of null.

His reads list was ~ok but the complete lack of reasoning is pretty poor (but again alignment neutral - he generally provides reasons with his reads as either alignment, so not doing so is ooc regardless)

His read on me still sketches me out, but given I have to accept that my game is 'different' this time I don't know how much stock I can put in it. His using my questioning people about reads, or asking their thoughts, or not voting as a reason for me to be mafia is poor, given he's just modded a game in which I didn't vote till D3 and maybe not at all and in which Mafia!Tina was pushing me for questioning people.

None of that, in a vacuum, makes Pral mafia.

I want to check Usual Suspects for how he treats super high volume games as mafia, but as of right now, I couldn't guess at his alignment. I cannot clear him in any way shape or form and that's a problem.

if Day 0 doesn't count then I have nothing, no content at all.

His frustration at the size of the thread, is probably real but meaningless. his stating he's not read the thread and will sheep Zander and then disappearing is bad, but I don't know it actually means much for his alignment.

I don't know if Pral will ever be able to self clear this game, and I won't fight his lynch, but neither do I have much confidence in his flip.

Give me a sec...

First few posts from Pral in US

These are his posts up until pg 73

A bit late to the party but here nevertheless.

Catching up on the game !

Wow, a few new faces and a whole lot of people in this game. Counting the hydras, it is 28 people !! Thankfully, the number of pages this game has been manageable so far

Anyway,

Sili dislikes it when someone tells him to stop posting.

Kay,

Town:

AJ

Null:

Kivam

Hallia

Talya

Lenlo

Seph

Yellow:

Wish-Tree

Shad

groups aren't ordered.

Well, Sili bringing up the town/scum list in page 5 seems very weird. Looks a bit forced to me.

But then, Sili has a way of doing something weird everygame and I usually end up tunneling him. Hope that is not the case here

Actually, mish, there is a logic (to cut down on game bloat) that is good enough to start with, since it's not mathematically worse than any other random group of players. ......................and for us, it's actually mathematically better, since we'd be looking for 2 scum out of seven hydras - a 29% chance - instead of 5 scum in 19 players (a 26% chance). Of course, that assumes an even distribution, but if we're going to look at a random pool of 8, I'd rather it be one we're in rather than one we're not Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

Technically, this logic applies only if you are planning to vote blind the entire game. People make informed choices. Even if it is D1, there are some stuff people base their votes on. So, I don't generally agree with this argument.

This whole conversation was out of the place.

Between the Kiv sass and Mish's defensiveness, that is the way to go for now until I see anything better.

Vote: Kiv/Mish

I guess you did not see anything better, since your vote is still on them. I understand the whole things that happened afterwards, but did not see your reaction in the later parts of the game. Looks somewhat like you have parked your vote on them and happy with where you are.

Quote Pyramids hurt the eyes on mobile. Lay it down a bit please.
1. This is an ongoing struggle. People don't clip quotes to the pertinent bits for some reason and it drives me bonkers.
2. Who are you and where do you come from?

Heh, well played Yates. I bet even the Egyptians did not have anything as large as this

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/95247-advanced-the-usual-suspects-mafia-day-1/page-10?do=findComment&comment=3527278

Hi DM Mafia crowd! Since wish tree and I are new to this site we came up with questions to get a feel of how you play.

1) Which alignment do you prefer?

2) Do you like to work alone, or with a team?

3) How will you make an impact on this game?

4) Do you like gambits or prefer to play it safe?

5) How much experience do you have playing Mafia, and what do you know about the other players?

6) Do you prefer to use the terms town/scum or villager/wolf?

1. Scum. I like lying, simple as that :)

2. Usually alone. Being not in the majority timezone, gets difficult to be on when most of the people are free

3. Usually a late game player. I hate D1. Am usually better when the number of people playing reduces

4. Couple of years. Started in this iste and have played all games here

5. Town/Scum. In with the crowd !

@Pral - liked Sili tone so far

i don't even raise my eyebrows on weirdness of him

in fact i dont even remember his read list... was it good?

Huh? I quoted it. It was a random list because in page 5 nobody aint got no smarts to get a good read list

Since nobody is doing anything ... [v]Pralaya[/v]. If my memory is right, he likes to lurk as scum, and hasn't checked in yet. Pral, where're you at? Start laying some content down.

Uh? When have you played with me where I was scum?

As an aside, I am honoured page 30-40 was completely about me, lol. Yeah, I don't "lurk" but I take a lot of time to catch up and start posting. That's true irrespective of whether I am town or scum or third party

Actually Pral, I have continued that conversation with Mish, and am there because it's scummy.

Yes, you did. But one or two posts. That's why I have the tingling feeling what I described earlier.

Ok. Caught up.

Just so everyone knows, this is why I hate big games.

I'm constantly in catchup mode and have no idea what's what, who's who, or what is going on.

I hope this game has a lot of guns in it.

Story of my life

So when reading through the thread previously I saw Kiv go after Pral for not posting yet and catch some heat for it.

My opinion on that is that Kiv is justified because Pral usually does take prodding but also I think it's really early in the game for prodding anyway so...both sides are kind of right on that?

Thinking Kiv was just looking for something to latch on to. Null imo.

Only thing is that he used an excuse that I lurk as scum when I don't think he has ever played in a game in which I was scum. That stood out for me.

Nyn has been...abrasive in how she's asked some of her questions and given her responses. It's different from what I'm used to seeing, but that isn't a bad thing. I've generally liked the way she's pushed the misrep of Pralaya's meta from Kivam.

Are u talkin about my Nyn?? Cause it doesnt seem like it.

Haha. Razen's definition of Nyn is exactly the Nyn I know

Also, what's up with Wombat's one line replies on carefully picked posts? Page 46-47 is full of those

Because I'm an analyst by nature, and a scum-hunter rather than a town-hunter. (I think hunting for townies is a sucker's game that good scum will always win; good scum can fake tone and WiM, etc., but that's a separate discussion). So what I want is content from scum, and my kryptonite is lurking scum. If Pral is a townie and lurks, it's annoying but not deadly; if he's scum and lurks it's deadly. Knowing that Pral is a low content poster when he's scum is precisely why I prodded him and not, say, Wombat, who isn't a low content poster when scum, or Jon Snow, who I have no experience with at all. I'm not sure how many ways there are to say this, or why you thought I was expressing a "read," but that's it.

I still don't remember where you have seen me play as scum. Care to help me?

I will post a bit later with my read list on everyone. Afraid there wouldn't be long explanations as I usually like to do on D1 as there are 20+ players !

This is what I think of the game so far. Not detailed reads but short brief summaries.

Town:

CorKey (Cory/Keyholder) - Both Cory and Key have been sounding good. Been a long time since I played with Cory and his tone (especially those with emo) tells that it is town Cory. Need to see how his votes long term to get more idea

Nyce (Nyn/Dice) - Pretty solid town. I may be biased but I liked the fact that she defended me when Kiv voted me. A scum Nyn would have taken advantage of the situation. Her tone in the arguments looks genuine. Dice has been pretty fine too.

Yates - I like his reads in general. Good observations on the AJ/Clov thing. And mor importantly no gambits yet :)

Talya - Has been pretty solid in her posts. I feel she is genuinely scum-hunting and the tone is genuine.

Slightly Townish:

ClovFG (Clov/BFG) - I have been pretty fine with Clov and he seems to be looking at Clov. Cory did not like BFG posts because her reads were superficial but I think that's how she usually plays D1. She is a late-game player

Seph/Zander hydra - I don't see the reason why his train has built up. Yeah, he had some argument with Kiv but I didn't see anything scummy in that. Zander plays a bit like that - quick, out of order replies. Seen him do that as town in a couple of games

Razen - Seems to be giving logical arguments throughout the game. His vote on Lenlo appeared out of nowhere though. However, as of now, I think he is townish.

Null:

Lenlo - A bit here and there. Seen nothing bad but nothing good either.

Nolderf (Nolder/Darthe) - It is clear from his posts that he has not read the game. But, I agree with Wombat that both Darthe and Nolder have been relatively silent compared to other games

AJ - Another person who has been a bit less active compared to what I have seen his usual play. But, he has checked in - so that is good

Beck Csarmi - Lot of posts, no substance yet. Null

Laine - Not many posts. Mentioned she was busy and I need to see more from her

wish-tree/Celeste hydra - I can understand how they are finding it difficult to assess meta this early in the game. I don't really know how they play. So, null for now

Slightly Scummy:

Shad - Has been quite active. His vote on Mish looks OMGUS more than anything. Did not find it a strong enough reason to vote her and keep the vote on what is now one of the leading trains

Wombicat (Wombat/Ocicat) - Lot of one-liner replies. Looks to be posting just to show some activity. His replies have ben kinda hollow and pointless. Not sure what to make of it

Hallia - I had raised earlier about how her vote seems parked and was vague reasoning. Not many posts but otherwise playing well. Conflicted about her right now

Sili - Tough to get to know Sili's alignment early in the game - need to see his vote trains later in the game for more info. I didn't like his read list early in the game. Other posts also looks forced. But, I lam fine with his votes and reasoning there

Scum:

Kivish (Kivam/Mish) - Kiv's play has been weird. Almost every move, he keeps saying he is reaction testing when called out. He did that for the AtE thing with Zander. He voted me and then said he is testing reaction. He unvoted Zander and voted him back after a few pages and said he unvoted to test Zander's reaction. It looks a bit forced to be honest. Frankly, Mish seems townie in her posts but Kiv is the exact opposite

John Snow - Vague and weird, so far. Read list out of nowhere and no explanations. This game, he is complete opposite to how he was in the British Monarchy game.

[v]John Snow[/v]

He was significantly more active as town in Marlfox which is the most active game he's played as town to the best of my knowledge (but lived till Day 7) and the site meta was quieter so we got 'burnt out' less frequently and I haven't ISO'd him in that game.

So im guessing you have Pral as Null?

In a vacuum yes. But threads villagery so in context he's pretty low in the POE, but at this point that's what it is, especially if Day 0 doesn't count

I think I've genuinely caught him once in a game I was reading and have misread him more frequently than not.

BFG · January 24, 2016

Check BT, I believe it was two games there? I've been playing for four years, so that's a loooot of games v.v

I don't believe you'd have such an obvious tell, so is just me being lazy

BFG are you 3rd party?

Town

BFG · January 24, 2016

i cant tell you game names bfg but ive seen hallia do it before

Yeah, I think I have but the only games I can remember specifically are games where she's claimed.

Does she have a preference for doing it as town or mafia from what you remember?

town iirc as scum i think she claims only under pressure

So your read on Hallia with or without the claim?

Clovdyx · January 24, 2016

Poetry with Clov!

Roses are gray

Violets are gray

Everything is gray

I'm a dog.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled mafia game. Because I have an AFC Championship to watch.

GO BRONCOS!!!!!

PLEASE DONT MODKILL ME!!!!!

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

If the Pats lose im def getting modkilled tonight.....

If the Pats lose, I'm modkilling everyone.

dicetosser1 · January 24, 2016

So your read on Hallia with or without the claim?

claim has nothing to do with it. her tone is pure town hallia. the crud people gave her about stopping the jokes when she was asked to was rubbish. she showing fire and u can see her thinking

Zander? · January 24, 2016

Poetry with Clov!

Roses are gray

Violets are gray

Everything is gray

I'm a dog.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled mafia game. Because I have an AFC Championship to watch.

GO BRONCOS!!!!!

PLEASE DONT MODKILL ME!!!!!

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

If the Pats lose im def getting modkilled tonight.....

If the Pats lose, I'm modkilling everyone.

This is NOT a good thing imo

Sooh · January 24, 2016

BFG? did you see my questions? They were part of my ISO on you.

dicetosser1 · January 24, 2016

im out. off to watch Royal Rumble with my daughter

Shad_ · January 24, 2016

Csarmi claim or dont. No more messing around.

Same with Monstr.

you want a mass full claim?

you has the power man.. its on you

Is it ever a great idea to encourage this on D2?

I don't like that this is a question. It leaves you wondering whether Shad is for or against it. You think it implies he's against it but you're just applying tone to text. There is no real tone here. Taken at face value he is looking for someone else to justify this instead of taking a stance himself.

You're right that I don't explicitly state that a mass reveal is a bad idea. "Taken at face value", I asked csarmi a question. Why do you infer I am scum trying to soft push for a mass reveal if you aren't willing to humor other inferences?

BFG · January 24, 2016

Yup. That's my BFG ISO done. I was feeling slightly uneasy about her in terms of my Shad ISO, but I am pretty satisfied that she's town now. The thing I noticed when I was reading Shad was that he wasn't really discussing her D0 anymore after D1 had started, but she brought it up again a couple of times to show that she thought he was scummy for sussing her D0. (God this D0 counts/doesn't count thing is really wrecking my brain!)

What I remembered before my Shad ISO was her being annoyed at him about it, but not so much what Shad had said himself. When I read his posts and found that he wasn't even mentioning it I started sussing her a bit more over it.

The following is in chronological order and I'll spoiler as much as possible.

@BFG - questions for you in bold purple

BFG ISO

D1

I've skimmed most of the thread while I've had friends over, but there are some/most things I need to reread.

This is hopefully the only mechanics post I'll make at least for a while.

Day 0 absolutely counts, this is mostly reiterating stuff, but

Either

A) Everybody had the same VT role, in which case we have a baseline to judge changes in behaviour from

Or

B) everybody had their correct alignment and roles are being added as we go through the game.

B makes more sense to me, given that we know that Clov said the game's balance sort of self rectified

Biggest thing against it would seem to be Eldrick becoming a stump.

However not everyone received new roles last night, I'm still VT if we're in an A) situation then that would mean it's possible for peoples alignment to change halfway through the game. I can't say I know Cory or Clov's modding style well enough to know for sure but I doubt that's the case. If we're in B) then it means I may stay VT for the rest of the game or gain a power, I'd guess depending on how well we do.

Only reason I'm mentioning this is because I think D0 counts, and I'm going to continue letting it affect my reads. Obviously I'm also keeping an eye out for changes in behaviour in case I'm wrong

Thinks that D0 counts and will let that affect her reads. Mentions Shad's nitpicking of her in #1470. Has clearly not seen that he won't let D0 reads affect him. (From what I could tell when I ISO-ed him earlier D0 reads have been scrapped from his mind.

#1470 for reference:

Ok pre proper read thoughts

Hallia seemed townish before her soft claim and townish for a different reason afterwards lol

Calder's still making me laugh, but I don't know if it means anything :/

I saw Thane post but have already forgotten everything he said, but I'm going to say that's on me at this point

Shad's starting to sketch me out with his focus on one thing affecting his read and should probably check his approach to Cass in Wow but looking through other games is going to have to wait till Friday, or more likely Saturday

Not a lot, but most of the day so far has been mechanics talk which is difficult to get reads from for most people

Mentions in #1478 that she thinks everyone had alignments on D0.

Shad's starting to sketch me out with his focus on one thing affecting his read and should probably check his approach to Cass in Wow but looking through other games is going to have to wait till Friday, or more likely Saturday

Curious what one thing you're talking about.

The fact you appear to be reading me scummy because of a different interpretation of Zanders 'follow Lenlo's lynch Zander' post. At this stage 2 other people have weighed in and understood me, and Dice at the least seems town and I still think Turin is to. So unless you think we're all mafia together you have at least one town that read it the same way, so at best it's null or should be.

Goes back to D0 again. Shad's read of BFG is not affected by D0 at this point, but BFG's read of Shad is. This is going to get confusing.

Reads:

Ok pre proper read thoughts

Hallia seemed townish before her soft claim and townish for a different reason afterwards lol

Calder's still making me laugh, but I don't know if it means anything :/

I saw Thane post but have already forgotten everything he said, but I'm going to say that's on me at this point

Shad's starting to sketch me out with his focus on one thing affecting his read and should probably check his approach to Cass in Wow but looking through other games is going to have to wait till Friday, or more likely Saturday

Not a lot, but most of the day so far has been mechanics talk which is difficult to get reads from for most people

Do you feel like yesterday everyone (both Town and Scum) had their alignments?

Yes

The only thing against it is the treestump, but if it's possible for my alignment to still change I will either laugh hysterically or cry and possibly both

Did you read my previous post?

i did.

who are your scum reads?

Meh I still don't have any handle on Snow/Pral/Calder/Manbat/Nolder/Thane

I'm treating Thane's absence as null right now, and I want to clear Calder although I'm aware its just because he's making me laugh.

Pral's sudden decision to ignore my meta when he's used it in our several past games together comes across as odd (and could just be OMGUS from me), and I don't recall him explaining his other reads.

Nolder's given me absolutely nothing to read him town from

Snow's mostly been away, which is null he does that as both alignments, but again I have no reason to think him town

Manbat is tricky because the meta I have is from before his break, so out-dated to say the least and he was a hard read for me then :/ essentially I'm not seeing the sustained interest/thread engagement that I expect from a Town!Manbat, I'm actually interested to see what the group who played Rustlemania with him think.

Shad's starting to sketch me out, but it's a little thing and lolme for doing the same thing

This is probably my starting point for today at least.

When she talks about Hallia she distinguishes very clearly between D0 and D1, and says she's falling back on D0 to give her read. Curious how she doesn't really do the same with Shad?

She doesn't trust Monstr completely in #1518.

She has some long absenses, but I don't want to read into that.

How did you land on your Dice read in #2266?

Can you expand on how you're currently feeling about Calder?

I don't get BFG's concern with Shad in #2266. It seems to still be mainly based on his D0 suspicion of her, and I think that's a stretch so long after it initially happened.

So tomorrow's going to be a long day I think.

I haven't done a full ISO on Celeste in Wow and I haven't looked through her other games.

In ISO this game

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/96491-advanced-gods-and-demons-mafia-day-one/?view=findpost&p=3597564 http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/96491-advanced-gods-and-demons-mafia-day-one/?view=findpost&p=3597571 thinks everyone VT D0

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/96491-advanced-gods-and-demons-mafia-day-one/?view=findpost&p=3597576 Len2 looks bad for the Csarmi thing, wants to talk with Shad, disappointed in Nolder

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/96491-advanced-gods-and-demons-mafia-day-one/?view=findpost&p=3597583 asks Shad about Nolder

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/96491-advanced-gods-and-demons-mafia-day-one/?view=findpost&p=3597587 asks Calder why her

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/96491-advanced-gods-and-demons-mafia-day-one/?view=findpost&p=3597619 thinks Manbat's town (Rustlemania)

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/96491-advanced-gods-and-demons-mafia-day-one/?view=findpost&p=3597649 votes Calder because his joke tone rubbing her the wrong way

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/96491-advanced-gods-and-demons-mafia-day-one/?view=findpost&p=3597659 Zander tunnels

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/96491-advanced-gods-and-demons-mafia-day-one/?view=findpost&p=3597661 not taking chance on Calder after Nolder in WoW

More Zander tunnels

"hi Eldrick"

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/96491-advanced-gods-and-demons-mafia-day-one/?view=findpost&p=3597832 asks Hallia opinion on Calder

People haven't checked in much

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/96491-advanced-gods-and-demons-mafia-day-one/?view=findpost&p=3598027 Turin feels different

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/96491-advanced-gods-and-demons-mafia-day-one/?view=findpost&p=3598031 asks Turin about Calder

From the first couple of pages in her ISO from WoW

More fluff - but different stage of game, so this much is null

"not an early game player"

"Wish town with reservations" (paraphrased)

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/96393-basicstandard-warcraft-war-of-the-ancients-mafia-game-over-mafia-wins/?view=findpost&p=3587497 this needed to be linked as it's her first vote and it is only 24 hours in to the game

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/96393-basicstandard-warcraft-war-of-the-ancients-mafia-game-over-mafia-wins/?view=findpost&p=3588060 first reads list, 2 days in? Other than Pizza her town reads are all people she has experience with before...

Also tricky to draw a fair comparison since she was on the defensive pretty early that game.

Strangely enough a brief 1 game comparison doesn't give me strong feelings, but she is different this game, whether it's different enough I don't know. She's being comparatively more open/direct with reads this game, and the reads are things that are 'odd' or scummy instead of townie, there's none of the 'slow start' posts this game, there's less hesitancy with her reads.

[v]Celeste[/v]

I have no idea if I'll make it on before deadline again. I will try to get on at lunch, but it's possible I'll be working straight through

I don't know how to feel about this vote. There's nothing outwardly suspicious about it. I didn't think so at the time, and I don't think so now. Zander was sussing her about it, but I guess he got the explanation he needed since I didn't see it again in his ISO of her

I feel like she was heavily advocating a Celeste lynch towards EOD1. I don't think BGF/Celeste are w/w. Either t/t or t/w.

Hard unvote in #2832 after Celeste's claim.

Didn't vote anyone else D1 because of a misunderstanding regarding Nolder.

Re Dice - at the time, his early case on Eldrick, early engagement with the game, the mechanics talk at the very start that he was bringing back to reads, his engagement with multiple people about game stuff. From Day 1 his conversation with Manbat in particular.

Now I'm not so confident, but still leaning town pending ISO

Calder no. I have a tendency to town read people who make me laugh; in whichever game it was that Lazy was in I town read him all game to a loss I think because of his humour :blush: and other than Calder's humour I haven't remembered a lot from him this game, but that's the case with a lot of people at this point. I think in AOL he got visibly 'dirtier' as town. I sort of liked his against the grain reads, but I don't know Calder well enough to know if it means anything. Right now he's back in my POE

BFG · January 24, 2016

BFG? did you see my questions? They were part of my ISO on you.

Yes, I'm in about 2 different places in thread atm :)

Hallia · January 24, 2016

I don't get why it's being made into a big deal o.O I have done so in the past, but there is no hard and fast rule on whether or not I do it.

Sooh · January 24, 2016

Yup. That's my BFG ISO done. I was feeling slightly uneasy about her in terms of my Shad ISO, but I am pretty satisfied that she's town now. The thing I noticed when I was reading Shad was that he wasn't really discussing her D0 anymore after D1 had started, but she brought it up again a couple of times to show that she thought he was scummy for sussing her D0. (God this D0 counts/doesn't count thing is really wrecking my brain!)

What I remembered before my Shad ISO was her being annoyed at him about it, but not so much what Shad had said himself. When I read his posts and found that he wasn't even mentioning it I started sussing her a bit more over it.

The following is in chronological order and I'll spoiler as much as possible.

@BFG - questions for you in bold purple

BFG ISO

D1

I've skimmed most of the thread while I've had friends over, but there are some/most things I need to reread.

This is hopefully the only mechanics post I'll make at least for a while.

Day 0 absolutely counts, this is mostly reiterating stuff, but

Either

A) Everybody had the same VT role, in which case we have a baseline to judge changes in behaviour from

Or

B) everybody had their correct alignment and roles are being added as we go through the game.

B makes more sense to me, given that we know that Clov said the game's balance sort of self rectified

Biggest thing against it would seem to be Eldrick becoming a stump.

However not everyone received new roles last night, I'm still VT if we're in an A) situation then that would mean it's possible for peoples alignment to change halfway through the game. I can't say I know Cory or Clov's modding style well enough to know for sure but I doubt that's the case. If we're in B) then it means I may stay VT for the rest of the game or gain a power, I'd guess depending on how well we do.

Only reason I'm mentioning this is because I think D0 counts, and I'm going to continue letting it affect my reads. Obviously I'm also keeping an eye out for changes in behaviour in case I'm wrong

Thinks that D0 counts and will let that affect her reads. Mentions Shad's nitpicking of her in #1470. Has clearly not seen that he won't let D0 reads affect him. (From what I could tell when I ISO-ed him earlier D0 reads have been scrapped from his mind.

#1470 for reference:

Ok pre proper read thoughts

Hallia seemed townish before her soft claim and townish for a different reason afterwards lol

Calder's still making me laugh, but I don't know if it means anything :/

I saw Thane post but have already forgotten everything he said, but I'm going to say that's on me at this point

Shad's starting to sketch me out with his focus on one thing affecting his read and should probably check his approach to Cass in Wow but looking through other games is going to have to wait till Friday, or more likely Saturday

Not a lot, but most of the day so far has been mechanics talk which is difficult to get reads from for most people

Mentions in #1478 that she thinks everyone had alignments on D0.

Shad's starting to sketch me out with his focus on one thing affecting his read and should probably check his approach to Cass in Wow but looking through other games is going to have to wait till Friday, or more likely Saturday

Curious what one thing you're talking about.

The fact you appear to be reading me scummy because of a different interpretation of Zanders 'follow Lenlo's lynch Zander' post. At this stage 2 other people have weighed in and understood me, and Dice at the least seems town and I still think Turin is to. So unless you think we're all mafia together you have at least one town that read it the same way, so at best it's null or should be.

Goes back to D0 again. Shad's read of BFG is not affected by D0 at this point, but BFG's read of Shad is. This is going to get confusing.

Reads:

Ok pre proper read thoughts

Hallia seemed townish before her soft claim and townish for a different reason afterwards lol

Calder's still making me laugh, but I don't know if it means anything :/

I saw Thane post but have already forgotten everything he said, but I'm going to say that's on me at this point

Shad's starting to sketch me out with his focus on one thing affecting his read and should probably check his approach to Cass in Wow but looking through other games is going to have to wait till Friday, or more likely Saturday

Not a lot, but most of the day so far has been mechanics talk which is difficult to get reads from for most people

Do you feel like yesterday everyone (both Town and Scum) had their alignments?

Yes

The only thing against it is the treestump, but if it's possible for my alignment to still change I will either laugh hysterically or cry and possibly both

Did you read my previous post?

i did.

who are your scum reads?

Meh I still don't have any handle on Snow/Pral/Calder/Manbat/Nolder/Thane

I'm treating Thane's absence as null right now, and I want to clear Calder although I'm aware its just because he's making me laugh.

Pral's sudden decision to ignore my meta when he's used it in our several past games together comes across as odd (and could just be OMGUS from me), and I don't recall him explaining his other reads.

Nolder's given me absolutely nothing to read him town from

Snow's mostly been away, which is null he does that as both alignments, but again I have no reason to think him town

Manbat is tricky because the meta I have is from before his break, so out-dated to say the least and he was a hard read for me then :/ essentially I'm not seeing the sustained interest/thread engagement that I expect from a Town!Manbat, I'm actually interested to see what the group who played Rustlemania with him think.

Shad's starting to sketch me out, but it's a little thing and lolme for doing the same thing

This is probably my starting point for today at least.

When she talks about Hallia she distinguishes very clearly between D0 and D1, and says she's falling back on D0 to give her read. Curious how she doesn't really do the same with Shad?

She doesn't trust Monstr completely in #1518.

She has some long absenses, but I don't want to read into that.

How did you land on your Dice read in #2266?

Can you expand on how you're currently feeling about Calder?

I don't get BFG's concern with Shad in #2266. It seems to still be mainly based on his D0 suspicion of her, and I think that's a stretch so long after it initially happened.

So tomorrow's going to be a long day I think.

I haven't done a full ISO on Celeste in Wow and I haven't looked through her other games.

In ISO this game

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/96491-advanced-gods-and-demons-mafia-day-one/?view=findpost&p=3597564 http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/96491-advanced-gods-and-demons-mafia-day-one/?view=findpost&p=3597571 thinks everyone VT D0

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/96491-advanced-gods-and-demons-mafia-day-one/?view=findpost&p=3597576 Len2 looks bad for the Csarmi thing, wants to talk with Shad, disappointed in Nolder

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/96491-advanced-gods-and-demons-mafia-day-one/?view=findpost&p=3597583 asks Shad about Nolder

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/96491-advanced-gods-and-demons-mafia-day-one/?view=findpost&p=3597587 asks Calder why her

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/96491-advanced-gods-and-demons-mafia-day-one/?view=findpost&p=3597619 thinks Manbat's town (Rustlemania)

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/96491-advanced-gods-and-demons-mafia-day-one/?view=findpost&p=3597649 votes Calder because his joke tone rubbing her the wrong way

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/96491-advanced-gods-and-demons-mafia-day-one/?view=findpost&p=3597659 Zander tunnels

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/96491-advanced-gods-and-demons-mafia-day-one/?view=findpost&p=3597661 not taking chance on Calder after Nolder in WoW

More Zander tunnels

"hi Eldrick"

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/96491-advanced-gods-and-demons-mafia-day-one/?view=findpost&p=3597832 asks Hallia opinion on Calder

People haven't checked in much

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/96491-advanced-gods-and-demons-mafia-day-one/?view=findpost&p=3598027 Turin feels different

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/96491-advanced-gods-and-demons-mafia-day-one/?view=findpost&p=3598031 asks Turin about Calder

From the first couple of pages in her ISO from WoW

More fluff - but different stage of game, so this much is null

"not an early game player"

"Wish town with reservations" (paraphrased)

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/96393-basicstandard-warcraft-war-of-the-ancients-mafia-game-over-mafia-wins/?view=findpost&p=3587497 this needed to be linked as it's her first vote and it is only 24 hours in to the game

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/96393-basicstandard-warcraft-war-of-the-ancients-mafia-game-over-mafia-wins/?view=findpost&p=3588060 first reads list, 2 days in? Other than Pizza her town reads are all people she has experience with before...

Also tricky to draw a fair comparison since she was on the defensive pretty early that game.

Strangely enough a brief 1 game comparison doesn't give me strong feelings, but she is different this game, whether it's different enough I don't know. She's being comparatively more open/direct with reads this game, and the reads are things that are 'odd' or scummy instead of townie, there's none of the 'slow start' posts this game, there's less hesitancy with her reads.

[v]Celeste[/v]

I have no idea if I'll make it on before deadline again. I will try to get on at lunch, but it's possible I'll be working straight through

I don't know how to feel about this vote. There's nothing outwardly suspicious about it. I didn't think so at the time, and I don't think so now. Zander was sussing her about it, but I guess he got the explanation he needed since I didn't see it again in his ISO of her

I feel like she was heavily advocating a Celeste lynch towards EOD1. I don't think BGF/Celeste are w/w. Either t/t or t/w.

Hard unvote in #2832 after Celeste's claim.

Didn't vote anyone else D1 because of a misunderstanding regarding Nolder.

Re Dice - at the time, his early case on Eldrick, early engagement with the game, the mechanics talk at the very start that he was bringing back to reads, his engagement with multiple people about game stuff. From Day 1 his conversation with Manbat in particular.

Now I'm not so confident, but still leaning town pending ISO

Calder no. I have a tendency to town read people who make me laugh; in whichever game it was that Lazy was in I town read him all game to a loss I think because of his humour and other than Calder's humour I haven't remembered a lot from him this game, but that's the case with a lot of people at this point. I think in AOL he got visibly 'dirtier' as town. I sort of liked his against the grain reads, but I don't know Calder well enough to know if it means anything. Right now he's back in my POE

Are these reads based on D0 and D1 or D1 only?

Sooh · January 24, 2016

Well I guess you touch on it a little with Dice.

Supposing D0 had everyone as townies, how does that make you feel about them both? You still want to ISO first?

BFG · January 24, 2016

Yup. That's my BFG ISO done. I was feeling slightly uneasy about her in terms of my Shad ISO, but I am pretty satisfied that she's town now. The thing I noticed when I was reading Shad was that he wasn't really discussing her D0 anymore after D1 had started, but she brought it up again a couple of times to show that she thought he was scummy for sussing her D0. (God this D0 counts/doesn't count thing is really wrecking my brain!)

What I remembered before my Shad ISO was her being annoyed at him about it, but not so much what Shad had said himself. When I read his posts and found that he wasn't even mentioning it I started sussing her a bit more over it.

The following is in chronological order and I'll spoiler as much as possible.

@BFG - questions for you in bold purple

BFG ISO

D1

I've skimmed most of the thread while I've had friends over, but there are some/most things I need to reread.

This is hopefully the only mechanics post I'll make at least for a while.

Day 0 absolutely counts, this is mostly reiterating stuff, but

Either

A) Everybody had the same VT role, in which case we have a baseline to judge changes in behaviour from

Or

B) everybody had their correct alignment and roles are being added as we go through the game.

B makes more sense to me, given that we know that Clov said the game's balance sort of self rectified

Biggest thing against it would seem to be Eldrick becoming a stump.

However not everyone received new roles last night, I'm still VT if we're in an A) situation then that would mean it's possible for peoples alignment to change halfway through the game. I can't say I know Cory or Clov's modding style well enough to know for sure but I doubt that's the case. If we're in B) then it means I may stay VT for the rest of the game or gain a power, I'd guess depending on how well we do.

Only reason I'm mentioning this is because I think D0 counts, and I'm going to continue letting it affect my reads. Obviously I'm also keeping an eye out for changes in behaviour in case I'm wrong

Thinks that D0 counts and will let that affect her reads. Mentions Shad's nitpicking of her in #1470. Has clearly not seen that he won't let D0 reads affect him. (From what I could tell when I ISO-ed him earlier D0 reads have been scrapped from his mind.

#1470 for reference:

Ok pre proper read thoughts

Hallia seemed townish before her soft claim and townish for a different reason afterwards lol

Calder's still making me laugh, but I don't know if it means anything :/

I saw Thane post but have already forgotten everything he said, but I'm going to say that's on me at this point

Shad's starting to sketch me out with his focus on one thing affecting his read and should probably check his approach to Cass in Wow but looking through other games is going to have to wait till Friday, or more likely Saturday

Not a lot, but most of the day so far has been mechanics talk which is difficult to get reads from for most people

Mentions in #1478 that she thinks everyone had alignments on D0.

Shad's starting to sketch me out with his focus on one thing affecting his read and should probably check his approach to Cass in Wow but looking through other games is going to have to wait till Friday, or more likely Saturday

Curious what one thing you're talking about.

The fact you appear to be reading me scummy because of a different interpretation of Zanders 'follow Lenlo's lynch Zander' post. At this stage 2 other people have weighed in and understood me, and Dice at the least seems town and I still think Turin is to. So unless you think we're all mafia together you have at least one town that read it the same way, so at best it's null or should be.

Goes back to D0 again. Shad's read of BFG is not affected by D0 at this point, but BFG's read of Shad is. This is going to get confusing.

Reads:

Ok pre proper read thoughts

Hallia seemed townish before her soft claim and townish for a different reason afterwards lol

Calder's still making me laugh, but I don't know if it means anything :/

I saw Thane post but have already forgotten everything he said, but I'm going to say that's on me at this point

Shad's starting to sketch me out with his focus on one thing affecting his read and should probably check his approach to Cass in Wow but looking through other games is going to have to wait till Friday, or more likely Saturday

Not a lot, but most of the day so far has been mechanics talk which is difficult to get reads from for most people

Do you feel like yesterday everyone (both Town and Scum) had their alignments?

Yes

The only thing against it is the treestump, but if it's possible for my alignment to still change I will either laugh hysterically or cry and possibly both

Did you read my previous post?

i did.

who are your scum reads?

Meh I still don't have any handle on Snow/Pral/Calder/Manbat/Nolder/Thane

I'm treating Thane's absence as null right now, and I want to clear Calder although I'm aware its just because he's making me laugh.

Pral's sudden decision to ignore my meta when he's used it in our several past games together comes across as odd (and could just be OMGUS from me), and I don't recall him explaining his other reads.

Nolder's given me absolutely nothing to read him town from

Snow's mostly been away, which is null he does that as both alignments, but again I have no reason to think him town

Manbat is tricky because the meta I have is from before his break, so out-dated to say the least and he was a hard read for me then :/ essentially I'm not seeing the sustained interest/thread engagement that I expect from a Town!Manbat, I'm actually interested to see what the group who played Rustlemania with him think.

Shad's starting to sketch me out, but it's a little thing and lolme for doing the same thing

This is probably my starting point for today at least.

When she talks about Hallia she distinguishes very clearly between D0 and D1, and says she's falling back on D0 to give her read. Curious how she doesn't really do the same with Shad?

She doesn't trust Monstr completely in #1518.

She has some long absenses, but I don't want to read into that.

How did you land on your Dice read in #2266?

Can you expand on how you're currently feeling about Calder?

I don't get BFG's concern with Shad in #2266. It seems to still be mainly based on his D0 suspicion of her, and I think that's a stretch so long after it initially happened.

So tomorrow's going to be a long day I think.

I haven't done a full ISO on Celeste in Wow and I haven't looked through her other games.

In ISO this game

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/96491-advanced-gods-and-demons-mafia-day-one/?view=findpost&p=3597564 http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/96491-advanced-gods-and-demons-mafia-day-one/?view=findpost&p=3597571 thinks everyone VT D0

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/96491-advanced-gods-and-demons-mafia-day-one/?view=findpost&p=3597576 Len2 looks bad for the Csarmi thing, wants to talk with Shad, disappointed in Nolder

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/96491-advanced-gods-and-demons-mafia-day-one/?view=findpost&p=3597583 asks Shad about Nolder

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/96491-advanced-gods-and-demons-mafia-day-one/?view=findpost&p=3597587 asks Calder why her

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/96491-advanced-gods-and-demons-mafia-day-one/?view=findpost&p=3597619 thinks Manbat's town (Rustlemania)

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/96491-advanced-gods-and-demons-mafia-day-one/?view=findpost&p=3597649 votes Calder because his joke tone rubbing her the wrong way

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/96491-advanced-gods-and-demons-mafia-day-one/?view=findpost&p=3597659 Zander tunnels

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/96491-advanced-gods-and-demons-mafia-day-one/?view=findpost&p=3597661 not taking chance on Calder after Nolder in WoW

More Zander tunnels

"hi Eldrick"

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/96491-advanced-gods-and-demons-mafia-day-one/?view=findpost&p=3597832 asks Hallia opinion on Calder

People haven't checked in much

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/96491-advanced-gods-and-demons-mafia-day-one/?view=findpost&p=3598027 Turin feels different

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/96491-advanced-gods-and-demons-mafia-day-one/?view=findpost&p=3598031 asks Turin about Calder

From the first couple of pages in her ISO from WoW

More fluff - but different stage of game, so this much is null

"not an early game player"

"Wish town with reservations" (paraphrased)

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/96393-basicstandard-warcraft-war-of-the-ancients-mafia-game-over-mafia-wins/?view=findpost&p=3587497 this needed to be linked as it's her first vote and it is only 24 hours in to the game

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/96393-basicstandard-warcraft-war-of-the-ancients-mafia-game-over-mafia-wins/?view=findpost&p=3588060 first reads list, 2 days in? Other than Pizza her town reads are all people she has experience with before...

Also tricky to draw a fair comparison since she was on the defensive pretty early that game.

Strangely enough a brief 1 game comparison doesn't give me strong feelings, but she is different this game, whether it's different enough I don't know. She's being comparatively more open/direct with reads this game, and the reads are things that are 'odd' or scummy instead of townie, there's none of the 'slow start' posts this game, there's less hesitancy with her reads.

[v]Celeste[/v]

I have no idea if I'll make it on before deadline again. I will try to get on at lunch, but it's possible I'll be working straight through

I don't know how to feel about this vote. There's nothing outwardly suspicious about it. I didn't think so at the time, and I don't think so now. Zander was sussing her about it, but I guess he got the explanation he needed since I didn't see it again in his ISO of her

I feel like she was heavily advocating a Celeste lynch towards EOD1. I don't think BGF/Celeste are w/w. Either t/t or t/w.

Hard unvote in #2832 after Celeste's claim.

Didn't vote anyone else D1 because of a misunderstanding regarding Nolder.

Re Dice - at the time, his early case on Eldrick, early engagement with the game, the mechanics talk at the very start that he was bringing back to reads, his engagement with multiple people about game stuff. From Day 1 his conversation with Manbat in particular.

Now I'm not so confident, but still leaning town pending ISO

Calder no. I have a tendency to town read people who make me laugh; in whichever game it was that Lazy was in I town read him all game to a loss I think because of his humour and other than Calder's humour I haven't remembered a lot from him this game, but that's the case with a lot of people at this point. I think in AOL he got visibly 'dirtier' as town. I sort of liked his against the grain reads, but I don't know Calder well enough to know if it means anything. Right now he's back in my POE

Are these reads based on D0 and D1 or D1 only?

Both

Calder my read hasn't changed much, I also couldn't tell you any stance he's taken on anyone but Manbat, Zander, Pral and maybe Nol, but he consistently makes me laugh and I find it hard to not let that colour my read

Dice is tricky - initially I had him as blue from Day 1 and green if I ignored it, the tinfoil in me at the moment is saying that he's not MQing as a way to boost PC (but that's a cheap way to read him that means nothing reliable) and another thing I need to check before sharing, as it's something that as far as I know Dice isn't aware of in his game.

The vote on Celeste is probably the most alignment indicative thing from Day 1. I have never seen mafiaDice vote that 'casually' for want of a better word. He tends to explain his vote more, and builds up to it if mafia. The exception I can think of are when he's bussing, where he'll place a vote but does nothing with it (Cliché, Csarmi's recent BT game). A mafia flip on either Celeste or Dice increases the others equity because of this, but I would still say town on both right now.

He's still involved and the tone and directness seem right, but I now want to check some other stuff first, and there's part of me stubbornly wanting to believe my early read, and part of me going i never want to read the DT if I'm wrong.

This game is tricky, the easy stuff to read him on isn't relevant yet as the situations haven't come up yet.

I still want to say he's town regardless of if it's just D1 or not

Eldrick4221 · January 24, 2016

I have pushed for a lynch on Pral in the past for bad reasons. He takes a while to warm up, and should be given the chance to do so imo.

BFG · January 24, 2016

I want to ISO half the thread, and read D1 slowly.

None of that's going to happen till Tuesday now.

Right now (groups not ordered)

Zander

(Eldrick)

Relatively confident town:

Csarmi

Sooh*

Celeste

Touch of wishful thinking town:

Dice

Hallia

Manbat

These are still mostly 'lazy' reads, I can't remember enough to clear them or feel much and feel horribly hypocritical for it. They're also people I typically read town early regardless of their alignment, so don't trust early good feels as much.

Lenlo

Laine

Shad

Calder (can't say I typically read him as town, but I suspect I would)

And these really are uninformed no better idea reads.

Thane

Pral

Nolder

Of the 3 Nolder's scummiest, BUT he's also the one that's been posting. I want to see what the recent posting does to his thoughts

Sooh's the one I may be clearing too easily in that group, but I stand by she's more engaged/involved with the game than I've seen her manage as mafia, so unless someone can point me to a similarly engaged game as mafia I'm going to keep her as town. Slightly disappointing that we don't seem to be on the same page as much as the last couple of games :sad:

BFG · January 24, 2016

And I'm out, see you tomorrow

Shad_ · January 24, 2016

That doesn't make any sense. Think about it.

If I was scum I would just continue to lay low and shoot the powers already outed.

If you are scum, you were pretty well aware that lying low was no longer an option at that point.

Sooh · January 24, 2016

I want to ISO half the thread, and read D1 slowly.

*snip*

Sooh's the one I may be clearing too easily in that group, but I stand by she's more engaged/involved with the game than I've seen her manage as mafia, so unless someone can point me to a similarly engaged game as mafia I'm going to keep her as town. Slightly disappointing that we don't seem to be on the same page as much as the last couple of games

I'm with you on the ISO idea. I feel like I have a good idea about Hallia, Shad and you now, but yes, it is strange that we're not in agreement. I do listen to your cases as much as I can, but I don't know why you have cleared Csarmi and Celeste. I can see your point on Dice, while I think it's very meta reliant there's really no other way to read him as far as I can tell.

I think I tend to rely less on meta and more on in thread stuff, so that may explain our differences.

Shad_ · January 24, 2016

Meanwhile if she's NOT town you are giving her a free pass with a get out of lynch free card to play later.

Ignoring the soft claim, what is your read on Hallia right now?

BFG · January 24, 2016

Csarmi is a range and a bad argument thing that I'm not sure I can say without feeling bad.

Csarmi is back to finding mafia today. There's part of me wondering if I need to be more concerned that he's done so after I'd moved him down some places for not finding mafia. Equally he didn't bother changing his approach when he was being run up for it in WOW.

The bad reason is that he's expecting Hallia and I to read him town. He always thinks I read him better than I do.

I haven't played a game with him in a long time now, so I'm not sure how much his meta has changed or if his ranges are closer now, but he's playing outside of his mafia meta and well inside his town one so similarly to you, unless someone can point me in the direction of a game where he's done this I'm going to town read him.

Celeste is maybe odd. I stand by completely the case that I made, she was/is playing very differently to her town game in WOW. But there are elements that are the same - the way she pointed at her mafia game thinking we'd/I'd spot the difference, the way she kept going back to 'something' she'd said in Wow, again as if she knows that clears her... I just really want to believe her and she's self resolving 90% of the time. The timing of her claim is pretty poor, I get that she just woke up, but she was the lead train when she left the thread, but this is probably the only lingering doubt.

I guess there's a touch of a Manbat read to both, their belief that we'll read them town.

Lol I guess even with my 'fairly confident' heading for you 3 there's still a fair bit of uncertainty with all of you :/

monstrman · January 24, 2016

100% villager tell from bfg

"OK I'm leaving

Wait hang on here's another 300 words of things"

Almost as good as a peek imo

[Advanced] Gods and Demons Mafia - All your souls belong to Shad (Triads win)

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