[Advanced] Gods and Demons Mafia - All your souls belong to Shad (Triads win)

Lenlo · January 19, 2016

I'm really enjoying being town in a game with you, Lenlo. It's a whole different perspective to watch you go after someone else. I like it. I feel good about you.

Its pretty fun from my end to. The like, week or so break between games along with my sickness going away really brought back my wim.

Just dont make me come after you. :P

BFG · January 19, 2016

Specifically - your early claim felt calculated, and is obviously posted to try to garner easy town reads. I can see this coming from you as either alignment. Your post where you asked Lenlo about your OP also shows that you're AWARE of your meta this game and appear to be purposefully trying to garner a new meta, except Lenlo doesn't use meta, given you do you should know that, except Lenlo is using meta on you this game so I dunno.

So why are you specifically altering your approach this game?

Eldrick4221 · January 19, 2016

It was a twisted fact and you know it Z. 6/10 is weak? Its in the greater half of the spectrum dude. By definition thats not weak.

Yes im trying to force you to build a case on me and explain yourself better. If your town, you have a chance to towntell to me. If your scum you have a chance to convince people to mislynch me. Either way, explaining and casing is in your best interest.

@Lenlo

Irt Laine unvoting and Zander flipping town.

I said she doesn't look scummy for it because she wouldn't have the "he's my teammate. I'm backing of this joke train" vibe

If she's scum and he's town, she wouldn't know that. She would only know he isn't on her team. And she would look 'not scum' to me because scum would stay on the train if it wasn't a teammate imo.

Odd, if Laine was mafia and Zander wasn't on her team why wouldn't she know he was town? Odds are extremely good he'd be town not third party in that scenario...

But people seem to forget they exist. If you aren't scum, you're town. There's also the possibility of 2 scum teams. We don't know. That's what I'm getting at. She wouldn't know he's town.

This is the same kinda thing I got onto you for in Ragnarok dude. Its makin me suspect.

Are you asking me to expand Manbat?

Basically in Rag D1 Eldrick was annoyed/surprised that a Third Parties Wincon had been posted in the opening post by the mods. This struck me as odd and I followed him on it and future stuff all through the game until he got lynched and flipped scum.

It is proven fact that scums openly 3p hunt, by the way

In Ragnarok I was gunning for 3rd party. In hindsight, it was bad of me to focus. That's not what I'm doing here, though. I'm just pointing out it's bad to assume someone is town if you know they aren't on your mafia team. It's bad to come to conclusions about anything about other people's role without evidence.

Hi Zander, what do you think about Laine's vote/unvote?

It's been noted. I was under the impression Zander was going down N0. That's why the petition got attention. If he flips scum, I am looking at her for backing off.

Erm, would you say your vote was serious?

Initially, not so much. I was running with the petition idea from the signup. Anyone is as good a choice as anyone else with the 24hr time constraint.

But after Laine unvoted, it became a serious vote. I want to know what comes of this interaction.

So Laines unvote concerned you but you feel the need to keep your vote on me?

Yes, because your flip affects the conditions of her unvote. If you're scum, it looks really bad for her.

Without knowing your alignment, I don't have reason to move my vote to her (which is what I feel you are implying). She hasn't done anything inherently scummy. It's conditional to your alignment.

BFG · January 19, 2016

Specifically - your early claim felt calculated, and is obviously posted to try to garner easy town reads. I can see this coming from you as either alignment. Your post where you asked Lenlo about your OP also shows that you're AWARE of your meta this game and appear to be purposefully trying to garner a new meta, except Lenlo doesn't use meta, given you do you should know that, except Lenlo is using meta on you this game so I dunno.

So why are you specifically altering your approach this game?

For Zander

BFG · January 19, 2016

It was a twisted fact and you know it Z. 6/10 is weak? Its in the greater half of the spectrum dude. By definition thats not weak.

Yes im trying to force you to build a case on me and explain yourself better. If your town, you have a chance to towntell to me. If your scum you have a chance to convince people to mislynch me. Either way, explaining and casing is in your best interest.

@Lenlo

Irt Laine unvoting and Zander flipping town.

I said she doesn't look scummy for it because she wouldn't have the "he's my teammate. I'm backing of this joke train" vibe

If she's scum and he's town, she wouldn't know that. She would only know he isn't on her team. And she would look 'not scum' to me because scum would stay on the train if it wasn't a teammate imo.

Odd, if Laine was mafia and Zander wasn't on her team why wouldn't she know he was town? Odds are extremely good he'd be town not third party in that scenario...

But people seem to forget they exist. If you aren't scum, you're town. There's also the possibility of 2 scum teams. We don't know. That's what I'm getting at. She wouldn't know he's town.

This is the same kinda thing I got onto you for in Ragnarok dude. Its makin me suspect.

Are you asking me to expand Manbat?

Basically in Rag D1 Eldrick was annoyed/surprised that a Third Parties Wincon had been posted in the opening post by the mods. This struck me as odd and I followed him on it and future stuff all through the game until he got lynched and flipped scum.

It is proven fact that scums openly 3p hunt, by the way

In Ragnarok I was gunning for 3rd party. In hindsight, it was bad of me to focus. That's not what I'm doing here, though. I'm just pointing out it's bad to assume someone is town if you know they aren't on your mafia team. It's bad to come to conclusions about anything about other people's role without evidence.

Hi Zander, what do you think about Laine's vote/unvote?

It's been noted. I was under the impression Zander was going down N0. That's why the petition got attention. If he flips scum, I am looking at her for backing off.

Erm, would you say your vote was serious?

Initially, not so much. I was running with the petition idea from the signup. Anyone is as good a choice as anyone else with the 24hr time constraint.

But after Laine unvoted, it became a serious vote. I want to know what comes of this interaction.

So Laines unvote concerned you but you feel the need to keep your vote on me?

Yes, because your flip affects the conditions of her unvote. If you're scum, it looks really bad for her.

Without knowing your alignment, I don't have reason to move my vote to her (which is what I feel you are implying). She hasn't done anything inherently scummy. It's conditional to your alignment.

So why is Zander scummy?

BFG · January 19, 2016

Checking in at break: I hate all of you.

</3

Clovdyx · January 19, 2016

Checking in at break: I hate all of you.

Imagine how I feel.

Lenlo · January 19, 2016

Im gonna wake up tomorrow to so much to read. My poor stats professor is gonna feel so ignored.

Eldrick4221 · January 19, 2016

I'm not saying that he is. I haven't really got a scum vibe from anyone yet. I'm open to suggestion for another way to go, but i would like to resolve this Zander/Laine thing.

Zander? · January 19, 2016

Gonna respond in Blue:

Dunno bout other people. Shad and Cory are up there.

As for the case on you:

You started out with the Role PM Claim BS (Not alignment indicative but referenced later in the case)

Not alignment indicative is the first point he uses to start his case against me...hmmmmm

The joke votes start coming in (Reminder: This phase has no majority lynch. 24 hours regardless)

I've explained why more then once why this concerned me. What do you think about my reasoning?

You begin to overreact to them imo.

I've explained why more then once why this concerned me. What do you think about my reasoning?

I state this pings me

Fair enough I guess.

You begin to accuse me of being scum because im taking a stance

I'm quite sure I've explained reasons for finding you scummy and taking a stance wasnt one of them.

You explode on me in all caps, something ive only seen you do as scum.

You played or watched World's End so you know I do this as Town

I explain all this

Poorly and without much substance at all.

You then attempt say my read of your meta and such is wrong without providing clear counter examples.

I'm saying you dont have a solid enough grasp of my Meta having only played 3-4 games with me. And you dont have solid Scum reads this early as Town!Len in previous games Ive seen,

This entire time your "case" on me progressed yet never directly referenced any posts or anything. Simply said im wolfy for these reasons, now for these reasons.

Again as I said i havent had time to back over the game and im responding in real time. Ive listed more then enough things to lend credence to my read of you.

When pressed for a case you said its to early to go full Zander, while the entire time you were saying its a 24 hour phase we need to get started.

Ive been the most active player, kick started the game and engaging the most. You wanna try that one again Len? All I said was I was trying not to fluff post and use the time we have to find a Wolf.

You have omgused everyone who has been critical of you (Ex: Myself and BFG), trying to discredit what we say rather than disproving it or demonstrating you are town.

I OMGUS EVERYONE who has sussed me? Nope, you and BFG yes because theres no substance to your reads on me imo.

All of this reminds me of prior scum games with you and leads me to believe you are scum.

Which ones and who so? Like in Matrix pretty much everyone thought I was Town so I cant give this point to much validation.

Now when we have calmed down abit, your asking around, but you always come back to me without making a full case like I am doing for you, even though I asked for one repeatedly.

I'll be casing everyone and still time for my ISO of you. ive explained where my reads come from.

Ill try and get exact quotes later. Basically your tone, reaction, reasoning and progression all doesnt look like town Zander. And if I dont see town!Zander early in a game where he says we have to get serious early, then I cant help but think your not town. Its possible your not scum, but I really dont think your town.

To follow up: In Wow I had an inkling about you, but brushed it off cause I let you sway me with your charisma. Not this game.

Can you show a link to posts that this happened? Cause obv if not this is a completely invalidated statement.

BTW Zander, you will never offend me. After Despo I learned really well what happens in the game stays in the game.

:wub:

Thank you because it was a legit question.

I dunno if I posted it or not, but how does there not being a post about an inkling invalidate a statement about a prior game? Is this relevant to my alignment? Because im simply saying I feel I can read you.

And yeah, dont worry bout it. Ill just go cry in a corner with my ice cream when no one is looking.

Because it will lend support to your claim that you "THINK" you can read me very well.

Zander? · January 19, 2016

I wanted people to answer this to gauge who and why.

ok seriously.

IYO who is MOST likely to be Scum and why? Or do you feel all or none of the scum team is one my train?

There is no way to meaningfully distinguish between them at this time.

Humor me please?

Zander? · January 19, 2016

Checking in at break: I hate all of you.

:wub: :wub: :wub:

Eldrick4221 · January 19, 2016

If we lynch Zander, and he turns up town, well that's statistically likely with the rushed D0. But we have the day to work with.

If he flips scum, not only did we get one already, but we have a lead on a second one. IMO this is the course to take.

Either way, we go into D1 with N1 results and go from there.

The chances of us catching scum now are slim. They always are at the beginning of the game.

Shad_ · January 19, 2016

Shad, whats your take? Your voting Z for, I can only presume, is the joke petition?

My brain hasn't finished healing from last game yet. -_-

But yeah, give me a minute to read what's been said since you asked this.

Nolder · January 19, 2016

I wanted people to answer this to gauge who and why.

ok seriously.

IYO who is MOST likely to be Scum and why? Or do you feel all or none of the scum team is one my train?

There is no way to meaningfully distinguish between them at this time.

Humor me please?

I'm not a very funny guy. Sorry.

Zander? · January 19, 2016

/shrug comment is null, what is there to comment on?

If you're town read me better, you're missing my biggest/most obvious tell that despite knowing about since Pokemon I haven't ever managed to address

And you're following style over substance. I either have a photographic memory or I've read your ISO at least once (to remember your Matrix comment). Interestingly there are 2 posts that probably deserve a comment, albeit one's just for lols

If YOU felt me thinking /shrug wasnt a Scum!BFG tell I feel like you'd have addressed it *shrug*

I know your tells pretty well imo. But time will tell. (See what I did there!!!! lolololololol)

No I mentioned substance (i may have used the word Content) as well and thats what Im looking for,

Eldrick4221 · January 19, 2016

FTR I do like that Zander has jumped right into the game, minimizing the fluff. If you are town, I don't want to see you go.

But I also don't think Lenlo is scum. Who else are you considering? Can you convince me not to vote you?

Lenlo · January 19, 2016

Yes, my thinking I can read you is completely subjective. People can believe it or not, it in no way affects the case.

Gonna respond in Blue:

Dunno bout other people. Shad and Cory are up there.

As for the case on you:

You started out with the Role PM Claim BS (Not alignment indicative but referenced later in the case)

Not alignment indicative is the first point he uses to start his case against me...hmmmmm

Yeah, cause its referenced later. How does this affect anything, its not being used against you?

The joke votes start coming in (Reminder: This phase has no majority lynch. 24 hours regardless)

I've explained why more then once why this concerned me. What do you think about my reasoning?

I think its abit silly. Theres no majority hammer, we have a full 24 hours for you to convince people your town

You begin to overreact to them imo.

I've explained why more then once why this concerned me. What do you think about my reasoning?

Doesnt effect me

I state this pings me

Fair enough I guess.

You begin to accuse me of being scum because im taking a stance

I'm quite sure I've explained reasons for finding you scummy and taking a stance wasnt one of them.

You explode on me in all caps, something ive only seen you do as scum.

You played or watched World's End so you know I do this as Town

Not to that extent or about the same stuff imo

I explain all this

Poorly and without much substance at all.

So says you

You then attempt say my read of your meta and such is wrong without providing clear counter examples.

I'm saying you dont have a solid enough grasp of my Meta having only played 3-4 games with me. And you dont have solid Scum reads this early as Town!Len in previous games Ive seen,

I dont have solid scum reads this early as Scum!Len either, so whats your point? Each game is different mate. As for your meta, you dont get to decide that. Weve played more than 3-4 games together btw. Its been 6 games over 6 months

This entire time your "case" on me progressed yet never directly referenced any posts or anything. Simply said im wolfy for these reasons, now for these reasons.

Again as I said i havent had time to back over the game and im responding in real time. Ive listed more then enough things to lend credence to my read of you.

Make time then. Stop being real time, the games slowed down enough for you to be able to do this.

When pressed for a case you said its to early to go full Zander, while the entire time you were saying its a 24 hour phase we need to get started.

Ive been the most active player, kick started the game and engaging the most. You wanna try that one again Len? All I said was I was trying not to fluff post and use the time we have to find a Wolf.

Really? Youve said MULTIPLE TIMES 2 hours is to soon to go #FullZander. As for most active, im even with you buddy. Most engaged, even again. I kicked started it just as much as you

You have omgused everyone who has been critical of you (Ex: Myself and BFG), trying to discredit what we say rather than disproving it or demonstrating you are town.

I OMGUS EVERYONE who has sussed me? Nope, you and BFG yes because theres no substance to your reads on me imo.

We are the only two people to suss you. You do this as wolf, you go after those poking at you. Generally you dont take people not town reading you all that well.

All of this reminds me of prior scum games with you and leads me to believe you are scum.

Which ones and who so? Like in Matrix pretty much everyone thought I was Town so I cant give this point to much validation.

Now when we have calmed down abit, your asking around, but you always come back to me without making a full case like I am doing for you, even though I asked for one repeatedly.

I'll be casing everyone and still time for my ISO of you. ive explained where my reads come from.

Try to case me sooner than an 1 before deadline please? Cause I would hate for you to try and get people to CFD onto me with a good looking surface case that has a poor base once looked at deeply.

And yeah, dont worry bout it. Ill just go cry in a corner with my ice cream when no one is looking.

Because it will lend support to your claim that you "THINK" you can read me very well.

Red

Zander? · January 19, 2016

Specifically - your early claim felt calculated, and is obviously posted to try to garner easy town reads. I can see this coming from you as either alignment. Your post where you asked Lenlo about your OP also shows that you're AWARE of your meta this game and appear to be purposefully trying to garner a new meta, except Lenlo doesn't use meta, given you do you should know that, except Lenlo is using meta on you this game so I dunno.

So why are you specifically altering your approach this game?

Im altering it for REASONS IVE ALREADY EXPLAINED!!!!

its posts like this that are frustrating me. I said WHY I claimed and explained it. Ive always been aware of my Meta like see Bellicheat and Matrix.. LEN HAS BEEN USING META for a large part of his read on me!!!!!

Lenlo · January 19, 2016

Specifically - your early claim felt calculated, and is obviously posted to try to garner easy town reads. I can see this coming from you as either alignment. Your post where you asked Lenlo about your OP also shows that you're AWARE of your meta this game and appear to be purposefully trying to garner a new meta, except Lenlo doesn't use meta, given you do you should know that, except Lenlo is using meta on you this game so I dunno.

So why are you specifically altering your approach this game?

Im altering it for REASONS IVE ALREADY EXPLAINED!!!!

its posts like this that are frustrating me. I said WHY I claimed and explained it. Ive always been aware of my Meta like see Bellicheat and Matrix.. LEN HAS BEEN USING META for a large part of his read on me!!!!!

Ive explained that. You stand out and are memorable.

Hallia · January 19, 2016

Cheeeeeecking in! And now gonna go read the WTF 15 PAGES IN FOUR HOURS!? -.-

Lenlo · January 19, 2016

Cheeeeeecking in! And now gonna go read the WTF 15 PAGES IN FOUR HOURS!? -.-

:D

Zander? · January 19, 2016

Cheeeeeecking in! And now gonna go read the WTF 15 PAGES IN FOUR HOURS!? -.-

Zander? · January 19, 2016

Specifically - your early claim felt calculated, and is obviously posted to try to garner easy town reads. I can see this coming from you as either alignment. Your post where you asked Lenlo about your OP also shows that you're AWARE of your meta this game and appear to be purposefully trying to garner a new meta, except Lenlo doesn't use meta, given you do you should know that, except Lenlo is using meta on you this game so I dunno.

So why are you specifically altering your approach this game?

Im altering it for REASONS IVE ALREADY EXPLAINED!!!!

its posts like this that are frustrating me. I said WHY I claimed and explained it. Ive always been aware of my Meta like see Bellicheat and Matrix.. LEN HAS BEEN USING META for a large part of his read on me!!!!!

Ive explained that. You stand out and are memorable.

Thank you for answering that BFG....

And thank you Im one of kind!!!!! (Thankfully for Humanity)

lolololololololol

BFG · January 19, 2016

Ok, I'll give Zander the fact that he's talked about Lenlo a fair bit between the colour discussion and his later explanation. The fact that I disagree with him shouldn't be here or there.

I'm going to link posts as MQing is horrible on a tablet and quoting the following took me over the limit

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/index.php?app=forums&module=forums&section=findpost&pid=3594557 one of many posts about his claim

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/index.php?app=forums&module=forums&section=findpost&pid=3594558 asks Lenlo if he was defensive in Matrix - already said I don't see the point in this, given that I don't recall Zandwr being pushed by anyone other than Lenlo (teammate) in that game

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/index.php?app=forums&module=forums&section=findpost&pid=3594581 accepts Lenlo's colour blinds explanation.

Leaves vote on Lenlo, despite now not having a reason in thread for voting...

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/index.php?app=forums&module=forums&section=findpost&pid=3594588 asks Lenlo if he's 'so self centred that he'd take the chance of putting town behind for lol... (post I wanted to quote earlier for lols as it's another implication that he thinks Lenlo's town (since in the world where Lenlo's mafia his job would be to get Town!Zander lynched)

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/index.php?app=forums&module=forums&section=findpost&pid=3594646 asks how dumb would Lenlo feel if he got lynched instead - I've taken this as null, but I can see (if I squint my eyes) that this could be a 'push'

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/index.php?app=forums&module=forums&section=findpost&pid=3594627

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/index.php?app=forums&module=forums&section=findpost&pid=3594664 missed these first run through, these are posts where he asks Lenlo about Lenlo's reaction (which is then included as one of the reasons in his extended post linked below.

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/index.php?app=forums&module=forums&section=findpost&pid=3594672 end sequence

TLDR there's more than I thought, there are a couple of posts prior to his extended explanation saying he doesn't like Lenlo's reaction.

His reaction to me reminds me of his early game reaction to me in Worlds End though. His progression on Lenlo isn't awful, but it reads oddly (although that may just be that I disagree with it/don't understand what points he's trying to make) and I'm not sure how much of that is because he's reacting under pressure and he doesn't often find himself under pressure as either alignment.

[Advanced] Gods and Demons Mafia - All your souls belong to Shad (Triads win)

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