Diablo the mafia game!

[Songstress]

 

 

if you are actually VT and this is a gambit, I would be very disappointed. I would understand if you did this as scum but as VT?

 

This is exactly the kind of thing VT Yates would do - and has done - but I don't ever see Mafia!Yates hard claiming cop on D2 in order to force a mislynch on a townie.  EVER.

 

2015 Mafia Champions Game

In a game with the best players from random mafia sites, VT Yates fakes a red peek on Pizza [who he did not know at the time] on Day 2. That gambit ended up clearing a ton of people, made Pizza and I lifelong friends, and ultimately lead to me voting the last scum in F3.

 

Clov is aware of this game.

 

Obviously this isn't the only time I've done it - as evidenced by the Tress flow chart making an appearance in that game - but it's probably my most high profile VT gambit. Also, that was a vanilla game [1 cop - no other pr's] so the strategy mirrors this game EXACTLY.

 

 

That's precisely the game I was thinking of. *nods*

 

Also Yates representing DM in that game, now has decided to abandon us, and we are gonna have words later, mister.

[Guest]

Hi guys. I've been home for an hour but I've been avoiding mafia a bit, to be honest. It's become very hard now. I feel like Yates has been trying to draw us out as a means for us to make mistakes. And I took the bait entirely. I'm afraid every single thing I say can be turned against me. Against us. Being Town, I'd prefer not to say stuff that makes me sound scummy

 

I'm going to catch up now and I'll be here for a bit, but not long. It's past 12 here already.

[Guest]

Okay guys. I'm going to accept that you're lynching a town today. So let's at least find mafia #2 and #3? Who do you guys think?

 

Our thoughts are these:

 

 

 

 

Zander, yates is not going to get lynched today. With that in mind, how do you want to proceed?

Not Bob

 

But there's still a couple more I'd like to look into. Like Tress and Tab

To me, personally, it's NotBob because of (1) not caring to read D1, and (2) sheeping Yates entirely. So it's biased at best. When looking at a different perspective, I still don't like how confident he was. It feels like he knew exactly who the town is and is just going along with the rest of us to vote them out.

 

 

 

Deadline is in 4.5 hours (I think). I'm going to bed in about 15 minutes. If we don't talk again: my first game had been fun ♡

[Zander?]

 

 

 

It's not Tab. I hate the hard bus game like that, it isn't fun.

 

I don't think so either, that was intense.

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe I'm just not as intimidated anymore, but so far you aren't asking the same pointed questions as you did before.

Sometimes you don't have to ask the questions. Sometimes you let people hang themselves. And sometimes you just go to sleep.

 

Let me ask you this; what if at the end of all this I present a wolf case on Bessie/Zander/Bender and they flip wolf?

 

 

Then I would likely put you in my town pile, depending on what else transpires between now and then.

 

 

 

Just after the talk of bussing what would make you think that Yates and myself bussing each other wasn't within the realm of possibility atp.

[Zander?]

 

 

These were my notes from during the night, which I will have to re-evaluate a bit in the light of AJ not being Seer:

 

Shad, Bender, Yates.

 

I had Bender in my dark green yesterday, mainly from feeling good about Besie’s confidence, but I’m wondering.

 

The conversation between Shad and Bender on pages 10/11 looks staged. Shad doesn’t seem to be giving the same scrutiny in his posts this time around, but explains that away early saying that last time he said too much, so now he’s going to be more cautious.

 

Besie’s coming in and saying Shad/Sooh is town struck me as odd. As a new player, I would imagine she was told to say this by Zander, as would a new player be familiar with Seer cover? (I wasn’t, though I admit I am more oblivious than most, but others needed it pointed out too). Why would Zander tell Besie to say it, and not say it himself? This, coupled with Shad’s change in behaviour and cover for his change in behaviour, stands out.

 

Plus, there’s Shad’s going for Lenlo earlier than others.

 

But Sooh/Shad's coming up as Tress' peek makes me feel bad about her as well - having two slots claim the same peek is making my head hurt.

 

I went back and checked the conversation to see what you were talking.  I didn't pay much attention to it the first time around, because it was fairly meaningless to me.  I really don't care about somebody asking another player's alignment directly, because I have yet to see that be an indicator one way or another.  But as far as I can tell, this is the extent of the convo.

 

 

 

 

Blom, have you spectated any games before or is this kind of a leap into the dark for you?

 

 

 

Blom, have you spectated any games before or is this kind of a leap into the dark for you?

I followed that previous one... what was it called... euhm. I'll check and get back to you

 

 

 

 

 

Blom, have you spectated any games before or is this kind of a leap into the dark for you?

I followed that previous one... what was it called... euhm. I'll check and get back to you

 

 

Are you scum?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Blom, have you spectated any games before or is this kind of a leap into the dark for you?

I followed that previous one... what was it called... euhm. I'll check and get back to you

Are you scum?

No.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Blom, have you spectated any games before or is this kind of a leap into the dark for you?

I followed that previous one... what was it called... euhm. I'll check and get back to you

Are you scum?

No.

 

 

Mafia is a game of telling the truth.  You wouldn't lie to me now, would you?

 

 

 

I really dislike lying, Shad. You'll learn this about me in time.

 

Also wanted to say: I miss your anime girly picture.

 

 

Sooh/Shad is town.

 

 

 

 

 

Unless you want to get into veggie burgers (scumclaim AFAICT).

 

 

The timing of the peek is a little weird - I will fully grant you that.  But it wasn't that long ago I was trying to explain seer cover TO Zander, and Besie is playing her first game.  I think it could very reasonably be explained as inexperience.  So what of the content rubs you the wrong way?

 

 

I was reading the thread from the beginning this morning, and it was the little back and forth, and then the timing of the claim, coming from Besie. I don't think Zander was around at that moment, and so I did wonder "Why now? Why Shad? Are they (Shad and Besie) talking together outside of the thread?" It was just a weird feeling.

 

 

 

 

 

(Quote chopping saves lives, children)

 

I was thinking more being seen to do so while not being on that team.

 

 

....I've read this sentence five times and can't figure out what you're trying to say.

 

 

Sorry, I do that and I am trying to get better.

 

I was thinking that they were being seen to be providing seer cover, while being scum.

 

 

Why do you feel the peek and the way it was done was more likely to come from a scum perspective as opposed to a town one?

[Zander?]

 

 

 

 

And Yates, it looks like your record has ended.

This sounds like a hurtful thing to say. Not sure why you said this?

 

 

Because why did you turn around and vote Lenlo? You had me, with your "I always get scum N1" speech, but then you last-minute changed, despite saying you wouldn't.

 

 

...What?

 

 

His post about hw he always votes scum on the first round.

 

 

 

Its funny with the flip flop you did on us that you would think Yates more likely to vote a scum first round then me and that's regardless of alignment... lololololol

[Zander?]

 

 

Because why did you turn around and vote Lenlo? You had me, with your "I always get scum N1" speech, but then you last-minute changed, despite saying you wouldn't.

Because no one was listening to me except Lenlo? And Lenlo was pretty obviously getting lynched in order for this game to move forward? If it makes you feel any better, [or worse] I was pretty sure Lenlo was Town and my heart remained firmly voting Bender. And I will attempt, once again, to persuade people to vote Bender today or tell me why I'm wrong to push that lynch.

 

Basically, I have two of the three scum caught. I'm just trying to find the third. And the third is a lower volume player. And I was considering you because you have been way snarkier towards me than usual. And that feels kind of like "beer muscles" from someone who thinks they are on a good scum team that's going to win. I'm still debating.

 

 

I do agree with you so far on Bender.

 

Last night was wine driven, admittedly, but my snark is coming from worrying about you more this game. 

 

 

 

I don;t know what to make of your continual fence sitting type posts/comments with me and Yates.....I don't like the look of it.

[Zander?]

 

 

 

 

Before, it reads like you were expecting AJ to flip seer, yet that wasn't apparently reflected in your reads list yesterday

 

 

Because if he had, it would have made you good to go too. I had you both in light green based on that possibility in my reads list yesterday. 

 

 

...Do you not understand the implications of her alignment from AJ's flip?  This isn't meant to be condescending or insult you - that is a genuine question.  I know you're still a relatively new player, so I'm trying to figure out if you need it explained.

 

 

The fact that you're asking me this makes me think I don't entirely - after catching up on the thread I was going to go and ISO her. I would think being a false peek gives her a bit of freedom, if she's scum, to make herself look really good. Because at the time of AJ's post, there really wasn't any content to go on. 

 

 

 

Can you touch on this some more and tell me what you fell about it now?

 

 

 

 

Then this conversation doesn't make any sense.  If you agree with him about Bender being mafia, why are you concerned about Yates at this point?  All of the negative traction int his game on Bender has stemmed from Yates' argument.  He made a comment that Lenlo flipping mafia would make him re-evaluate Bender to the point where Bender would be softcleared (I've at the point where I feel comfortable saying Yates KNEW Lenlo was going to flip town, so there was no chance he would have to "re-evaluate" Bender and could have a nice, easy lynch for today on the table); I would argue this same principle applies to Yates - if Zander shows up red, there is literally no reason for anybody to push Yates the rest of the game.

 

 

Maybe I'm paranoid? I said earlier that I wasn't afraid of him anymore, but maybe I still am - if Bender ends up turning red, it would make Yates look good and possibly give him an out for the rest of the game.

 

 

 

This is awful coming from your later post about you listing me and Yates on the same team!!!

[Zander?]

 

 

 

 

Because why did you turn around and vote Lenlo? You had me, with your "I always get scum N1" speech, but then you last-minute changed, despite saying you wouldn't.

Because no one was listening to me except Lenlo? And Lenlo was pretty obviously getting lynched in order for this game to move forward? If it makes you feel any better, [or worse] I was pretty sure Lenlo was Town and my heart remained firmly voting Bender. And I will attempt, once again, to persuade people to vote Bender today or tell me why I'm wrong to push that lynch.

 

Basically, I have two of the three scum caught. I'm just trying to find the third. And the third is a lower volume player. And I was considering you because you have been way snarkier towards me than usual. And that feels kind of like "beer muscles" from someone who thinks they are on a good scum team that's going to win. I'm still debating.

 

 

I do agree with you so far on Bender.

 

Last night was wine driven, admittedly, but my snark is coming from worrying about you more this game. 

 

 

 

Id like your thoughts on us in your own words if you don't mind mt dear.

 

 

Largely, because Besie's posts feel more confident and coached than I would think they would be if you were town. If you were town, I'd imagine your main advice to her would be to just be honest, and try to solve. Another small ping is Zander's reads list with Dice and Yates at the bottom - I don't know where that hard red reading of Dice is coming from, mainly as it's the opposite of my own read of him, and in my thoughts where I am worried about a Bender/Yates team, the idea of him having one known scum and one random, who others are saying they can't read as well, makes some sort of sense. 

 

 

 

And the flip back again......

[Taborline]

 

 

 

 

 

Before, it reads like you were expecting AJ to flip seer, yet that wasn't apparently reflected in your reads list yesterday

 

 

Because if he had, it would have made you good to go too. I had you both in light green based on that possibility in my reads list yesterday. 

 

 

...Do you not understand the implications of her alignment from AJ's flip?  This isn't meant to be condescending or insult you - that is a genuine question.  I know you're still a relatively new player, so I'm trying to figure out if you need it explained.

 

 

The fact that you're asking me this makes me think I don't entirely - after catching up on the thread I was going to go and ISO her. I would think being a false peek gives her a bit of freedom, if she's scum, to make herself look really good. Because at the time of AJ's post, there really wasn't any content to go on. 

 

 

 

Can you touch on this some more and tell me what you fell about it now?

 

 

 

 

Then this conversation doesn't make any sense.  If you agree with him about Bender being mafia, why are you concerned about Yates at this point?  All of the negative traction int his game on Bender has stemmed from Yates' argument.  He made a comment that Lenlo flipping mafia would make him re-evaluate Bender to the point where Bender would be softcleared (I've at the point where I feel comfortable saying Yates KNEW Lenlo was going to flip town, so there was no chance he would have to "re-evaluate" Bender and could have a nice, easy lynch for today on the table); I would argue this same principle applies to Yates - if Zander shows up red, there is literally no reason for anybody to push Yates the rest of the game.

 

 

Maybe I'm paranoid? I said earlier that I wasn't afraid of him anymore, but maybe I still am - if Bender ends up turning red, it would make Yates look good and possibly give him an out for the rest of the game.

 

 

 

This is awful coming from your later post about you listing me and Yates on the same team!!!

 

 

 

You're misreading it - I am still saying that's what it is. He'd be doing it, to make himself look good. Hence me still being paranoid, as I said.

[Taborline]

Like really, Zander, Clov and I went back and forth about that point in that part of the conversation. Clov said "if Zander shows up red, there is literally no reason for anybody to push Yates the rest of the game." And I responded confirming the same thing, as a reason why I'm nervous about him.

[Yates]

Z-man - thoughts on Thane?

[Yates]

You're misreading it - I am still saying that's what it is. He'd be doing it, to make himself look good. Hence me still being paranoid, as I said.

Just FYI what you are talking about is called "busing." Busing is when you vote your partner in an attempt to make yourself look good. While I can appreciate your paranoia, there does come a point where you have to look at the interaction and decide if it looks staged - like we are playing out something we had scripted in our scum QT - or if this is a legitimate argument between two players. At some point, an argument reaches a stage based on volume/tenacity/persistence/lucidity/timing that busing can be all but ruled out. And while there certainly remains a *possibility* that busing is occurring, the *probability* becomes so low that it really isn't worth pursuing with any vigor until you start getting down towards the end of the game and uncleared suspects start running in short supply. Otherwise what you are doing is called "tin foiling." That term is named after the crazy conspiracy theorists that wear tin foil hats to keep the government from reading their thoughts via invisible and undetectable microchips implanted in their brains at birth. You don't want to be categorized with these people.

 

I promise you that I'm not busing. And while it is clearly impossible for me to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt short of flipping Town, I'm pretty sure you should be able to GUESS with an incredible degree of certainty that I will flip Town based on my Bender case if and when they are lynched and flip scum. If they flip Town? Then I obviously wasn't busing in the first place. At that point I was just Town that was terribly wrong and believed in his case so much he tried to be a hero and gambled everything on one flip *OR* I was scum pushing through a mislynch. But really you can't worry about that unless/until Bender is lynched and *does* flip Town.

[Clovdyx]

Chip Kelly's a tool.

 

 

Tress, are you scum?  Be honest.

 

I am not, darlin'.

 

 

Why did it take you 1300 posts to actually contribute something to this game?  I mean, your four pages of ISOs were nice and all, but you offered up basically no commentary on his posts.  All you did was quote about a hundred posts and restate what was clearly happening in them.  

 

Even your conclusions meant almost nothing towards actually solving the game.  The biggest takeaway is you don't think AJ was killed for being suspicious of Dice.  Okay, cool - you thought Dice was town.  How has that changed, if at all, over the past 60 hours?  

 

 

To me, it looks like you're trying to skate by on "effort" - ya know, because scum would never care enough to read a dead guy's posts.

[Clovdyx]

I second guess myself a lot, to the point of letting people change my mind last time around, and then I ended up voting for the wrong people. From early, I've had bad feelings about Bender, so I'm staying there, but Yates doesn't feel like he felt when he was town last time. He pushed people, sure, but it wasn't like this. This feels like he has a goal that isn't just finding wolves, it feels off. And now, again, I am feeling like I am second guessing Bender and wanting to go for Yates, but would he be doing this is he were scum, as it's so obvious? 

 

 

Absolutely, if he thought it was the course of action that put him in the best position to win.  Yates almost certainly thinks he can do whatever he wants and get away with it 90% of the time.  To his credit, he's probably not wrong.  I'm the same way - I can, and will, do whatever it takes to win as any alignment.  There's nothing that's "too stupid" or "too scummy" that I would refrain from doing it.  All that matters is that the likely benefits are more significant than the expected drawbacks.

 

If Zander flips town, who are you looking at moving forward?  If Zander flips mafia, who are you looking at?

[Songstress]

Chip Kelly's a tool.

 

 

Tress, are you scum?  Be honest.

 

I am not, darlin'.

 

 

Why did it take you 1300 posts to actually contribute something to this game?  I mean, your four pages of ISOs were nice and all, but you offered up basically no commentary on his posts.  All you did was quote about a hundred posts and restate what was clearly happening in them.  

 

Even your conclusions meant almost nothing towards actually solving the game.  The biggest takeaway is you don't think AJ was killed for being suspicious of Dice.  Okay, cool - you thought Dice was town.  How has that changed, if at all, over the past 60 hours?  

 

 

To me, it looks like you're trying to skate by on "effort" - ya know, because scum would never care enough to read a dead guy's posts.

 

It didn't take me 1300 posts to do anything - you should know me well enough by now to know that other people's contribution levels mean precisely zero to how much I am able to post - in fact, the more some people post, the harder it is for me to keep up and interpret what they mean to say, because i feel like I've been buried in an avalanche of words.  This is a lot of what I feel about Zander's posts, and why I wasn't prepared to offer an opinion on him D1.  

 

You should also be aware that I very rarely contribute much of value D1, at least not until late in the day.  I don't typically take very many strong stances early, I often don't even vote D1.  I read along, I do more thinking than typing, and I form gut reads as I go, and supplement those gut reads with quick ISOs of the players that I don't remember feeling strongly about, and offer a full list of reads and thoughts (mostly gut reads) at the end of the phase.  That's how my brain works D1.  

 

My activity level depends largely on what is going on in my life and how I feel - if I'm sick, I find it hard to concentrate.   I usually can't post at work, or if I can, it's only going to be a quick take on a particular post or issue, because I can only access DM on my phone during breaks and lunch.

 

When I have something I feel strongly about or think is of value to add to the discussion, I add it. That's how I play.  I also try to follow through when I say I'm going to do something. 

 

I get that you're not impressed.  I'm kind of terrible at this game in general, so it doesn't bother me that you agree.  

[seph]

1 hour and 20 mins to dl

[Clovdyx]

It didn't take me 1300 posts to do anything - you should know me well enough by now to know that other people's contribution levels mean precisely zero to how much I am able to post - in fact, the more some people post, the harder it is for me to keep up and interpret what they mean to say, because i feel like I've been buried in an avalanche of words.  This is a lot of what I feel about Zander's posts, and why I wasn't prepared to offer an opinion on him D1.  

 

You should also be aware that I very rarely contribute much of value D1, at least not until late in the day.  I don't typically take very many strong stances early, I often don't even vote D1.  I read along, I do more thinking than typing, and I form gut reads as I go, and supplement those gut reads with quick ISOs of the players that I don't remember feeling strongly about, and offer a full list of reads and thoughts (mostly gut reads) at the end of the phase.  That's how my brain works D1.  

 

My activity level depends largely on what is going on in my life and how I feel - if I'm sick, I find it hard to concentrate.   I usually can't post at work, or if I can, it's only going to be a quick take on a particular post or issue, because I can only access DM on my phone during breaks and lunch.

 

When I have something I feel strongly about or think is of value to add to the discussion, I add it. That's how I play.  I also try to follow through when I say I'm going to do something. 

 

I get that you're not impressed.  I'm kind of terrible at this game in general, so it doesn't bother me that you agree.  

 

 

I know you don't care about other people's contributions, and I understand that other people being active doesn't mean anything about YOUR availability, but that doesn't change the fact I expect you to offer your thoughts.  You might not have a ton to say, but I have never played a game with you that I've seen you just completely avoid bringing something to the table.  I've also never seen you as mafia.  Coincidence?  Maybe, maybe not.

 

Do I fully believe you were not feeling well?  Sure.  Do I fully believe you've been working?  Absolutely.  I know you.

 

But I also know that there's something off about somebody who spends however hours reviewing the posts of the D1 nightkill looking for a "reason" beyond the most logical conclusion and they STILL come up with nothing.

 

This is you in House of Cards:

 

 

 

 

 

Leelou being the kill helps keep me from going down the wrong road with Dice (sorry Dicetastic, but I wasn't seeing it yet), and from paranoid tinfoiling about the EOD with Wombat/Cory which was starting to look really really overdone when I ISO'd Wombat this afternoon.

 

I'm thinking Verb is mafia here - the third I'm not too sure on - possibly Clov, possibly I was wrong on Cass (but dang, I feel terrible if she rolled mafia YET AGAIN).

 

Here's my notes from the ISO - most posts are accounted for, although I skipped some spam and summarized some of the excessive back and forth with Cory at EOD

 

 

 

Wombat notes:

 

 

- Early Darthe town read

- Town lean on Kaylee through pg 6

- "Odd vibes" from Nyn

- Accuses AJ of dodging Nyn's suspicion

- Soft defends Clov against Hally

- Calls Sooh null, hedges on her - can see why Nyn is scum reading her but doesn't like her lynch as the wagon feels "thin"

- Says Clov seems to be "standard reasonable Clov"

- Town reads Kaylee for calling Sooh a hypocrite

- Null on Leelou - needs to see her post actual content

- Votes AJ with no reason given

- Calls out Dice for "bad post" when he votes Sooh

- Hedges on Cass, agrees her reads are bad but unwilling to commit yet to whether or not they are scummy

- Calls Clov's push on Cory pg 18 "inane"

- Soft defends Darthe against Cass

- Nudges Cass for "too many words for a null read" in post 396

- Doesn't like self-meta/alignment WIFOM in Sooh's post

- Asks Sooh to clarify "soulreads" in her reads list

- Calls Nyn/Hally town

- Explains sequence of posts regarding Kaylee for Verbal

- Tells Verb he's "missing a lot of things"

- Notes pocketing is standard Cory MO

- Soft push on Verb, says he never sees anything Verb does as genuine

- Accuses Sooh of anti-spew

- Asks AJ to explain his statement that how Cory has handled Verb and Clov seems wolfy

- Characterizes Clov's push against Cass as "inane"

- Votes Tress with no explanation

- Asks Cory if he is trying to "reverse pocket" him

- Suggests Cory/Verb and Cory/Clov interaction as slight OMGUS, says he would expect Town Cory to go harder after the people pushing him but hedges on whether or not it's alignment indicative

- Says nothing is really that firm on D1 but he is not getting wolf vibes from Cory

- Suggests Cory used to get very upset when people falsely suspect him but acknowledges his meta is outdated

- Responds to AJ's statement that he thinks he (AJ) would bite back against his detractors more as mafia by pointing out that he used to do it a lot as town early on. (Reads as soft defending Cory against AJ)

- Responds to Cass questions re: his reads on Nyn, Darthe.  Calls Darthe a mild town read.

- Says he wants to lynch Sooh but wants to use remaining time in D1 productively and wants low posters to step up

- Tells Sooh if she's actually town to channel her frustration in to scumhunting

- Disagrees with Cory's premise on Nyn but states he has her as a dark green

- States he's not impressed with Sooh changing her read on Nyn to align with thread consensus

- Says Cory's position on wanting Sooh to be a villager because of her AtE makes sense but is dangerous, calls AtE a pretty big tool for town and scum

- Helps clarify Clov's five names he would not fight the lynch as being "in his POE"

- Says he adores Kaylee this game and in general but requests she avoid colored text inside quotes

- Votes Sooh

- Responds to Cass's post regarding her frustration with Darthe and Cory wanting her to play differently - says he kinda likes the post, acknowledges there is some utility in real-time interactions so Cory's request is legit

- Disappointed in Tress but waiting out the RL issues

- Thinks 1 of Darthe/Verb/Cory/Clov/Wombat/AJ is mafia

- States Kaylee was N0 town peek, lists top 3 mafia as Sooh, Tress, Dice, has his eye on AJ and Cass

- Responds to Sooh's reads list with Cory/Clov/Darthe as having maybe 1 mafia, Dice/Cass having 1 or 2 stating the "wolf trifecta" doesn't look too good to him

- Expands on that statement saying it looks like anti-spew

- Asks Leelou what's with her scum reads on Wombat and Clov

- Asks Leelou if there's something wrong with his scolding, and states he feels Sooh is scum, Tress is scummy/inactive, and AJ is sketchy.

- Says he barely remembers Clov's pushes

- Says Verb is annoying him, some stuff looks like good effort and some looks "thick-headed"

- Posts reads list:  Wombat/Kaylee as blue, Bewbs/Darthe dark green, Cory light green, Lee/Clov/Verb null, Cass/AJ yellow, Dice/Tress/Sooh orange.

- Responds to Kaylee that he doesn't like how Sooh hasn't been trying to fight her lynch, says he doesn't like some of the votes on her but thinks they could be bus votes

- Seconds Kaylee's request for me to show that I'm town

- Doesn't understand why Leelou is jumping all over Clov re: his read on Dice, says he feels similarly about Dice and has him as a mild scum read.

- Responds to Nyn's comment that Dice should be null based on his low content that he will form a read based on one post if it sticks out enough.

- Moves me up to yellow tier after my reads list/argument with Cory end of D1

- After start of D2 posts "not lynching" list with Wombat, Kaylee, Clov, Tress in blue, and Bewbs in green, says everyone else needs to step it up

- Votes AJ and tells him to get off the sidelines

- Says he still doesn't get Leelou's reads and asks if she's scum, says Kaylee is 100% wrong calling Wombat/Clov w/w

- Responds to AJ saying either he is a wolf or they need to get on the same page

- Responds to AJ's potential mafia list of Wombat/Cory/Clov/Cass by saying he's batting .500 max, more likely .250

- Responds to Cass that the votes from Sooh's train that he didn't like were mostly Dice, but also Verb and AJ

- Asks how anyone has Clov as scum

- Asks Cass how Verb's anecdote about being burned by AtE qualifies as AtE

- Explains to Clov his dislike of Verb and AJ's votes on Sooh

- Asks Nyn to clarify where she has Leelou on her reads list

- Offers his opinion of Cory's meta with regard to AtE (ok when used by townies but not scum) - disagrees but understands the inclination

- States he is getting uncomfortable with Leelou but thinks it may be OMGUS so he wanted Nyn's opinion, agrees with Nyn that he doesn't understand why people are town reading Verb

- Explains further to Clov why he felt AJ's vote on Sooh could have been a bus vote

- Reiterates that Kaylee is a blue read

- Defends himself against AJ's suggestion he isn't working hard enough.  Says from AJ's scum POE, Cass is most likely mafia (3 to 1 odds over Cory) - says AJ/Cass/Dice are his top 3 mafia suspects

- Asks Verb why he didn't think Sooh/Cass could be V/V, and why he should have Verb as town

- Responds to Verb's Wombat/Clov thoughts with "Bleh. Not helping."

- Explains to Cass what he meant by DADV with regard to the Sooh lynch/Verb & Aj's votes

- Explains to AJ why he is not very firm on his mafia reads of AJ/Cass/Dice

- Hates AJ's VT claim

- Plays along with AJ's suggestion to consider backup mafia candidates if all of AJ/Dice/Cass are town - agrees they would be Cory/Leelou/Verb, all of whom are null/mixed in his mind - but thinks he's unlikely to be wrong on all of his top suspects

- Points out that Darthe being Verb's N0 peek shouldn't have made Cass seem more suspicious for attacking Darthe as townies often attack townies, especially D1

- Accepts Cass' explanation of her comment about AtE and Verb's vote on Sooh, says he'd have thought Verb's vote was sketchy enough without the AtE

- Explains to Cass why he doesn't think DADV applies 100% to AJ/Verb votes on Sooh - it's more of a thread-wide thing than an individual tell

- Denies trying to push Kaylee with his explanation of SHC, reiterates he has her as town and thought Clov's push was silly

- Votes Cory for "not actually doing anything but flinging baseless crap" at him

- Responds to Verb's question why he's arguing with a town read of his that he likes to argue with people who try to lynch him

- Asks Cory what his problem is and tells him to vote someone who might actually be a wolf

- States Verb is not doing himself any favors nudging Wombat, reiterates that Cory is "wolfing"

- States Cory is either a wolf or their best friend, unsure which

- Continues to accuse Cory of doing no work and camping a vote on him

- Demands Cory reveal his N1 peek/cover

- States Cory is trying to imply he has a scum peek on Wombat, and states this has outed him as not the cop on the same day as AJ outed himself as not being the cop - says this was a ploy cooked up by AJ and Cory on their QT in the event that Darthe did not flip cop in order to try to out the real cop.  States that the fact that Cory is trying to lynch him implies that both of his peeks are correct and Kaylee and Clov are town.

- Tells Cory he might as well concede and asks who the 3rd mafia is

- Continues arguing with Cory

- Accuses Cory of killing Darthe

 

 

 

Going to go back to his reads lists real quick and quote them for reference.

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, that's a big list of notes.  But you're giving things that contribute to the conversation.  It's not five hundred posts of spam, but it shows what you're thinking.  Your ISO earlier gave a hell of a lot more questions than answers.  

[Clovdyx]

And don't give me that crap about "I'm awful, so it's okay you think that'.  We've had this conversation - you know damn good and well I don't think you're awful.  I actually think you're one of the more "rational" players.  You don't fill the thread with unsubstantiated posts that I have to ~guess if you really believe.  Your points either make sense or they don't, and you almost always have justification for it.

 

Your post earlier, about Yates?  Probably one of the, if not THE, best posts in this game.  My personal disagreement with your assessment that Yates wouldn't claim scum on D2 like that aside, I pretty much love it.  Not only does it suggest you're actually trying to figure some stuff out, I fully believe you could reach those conclusions as town.  If this was four or five days ago and so much other stuff hadn't happened, you might be my strongest town read.

 

But it's not.  And it has.  So I guess I'm stuck deciding between a deliberate attempt to not address things, or just terrible timing and thread nature.  My instincts tell me it's a lot more likely to be the former than the latter.

[Songstress]

 

It didn't take me 1300 posts to do anything - you should know me well enough by now to know that other people's contribution levels mean precisely zero to how much I am able to post - in fact, the more some people post, the harder it is for me to keep up and interpret what they mean to say, because i feel like I've been buried in an avalanche of words.  This is a lot of what I feel about Zander's posts, and why I wasn't prepared to offer an opinion on him D1.  

 

You should also be aware that I very rarely contribute much of value D1, at least not until late in the day.  I don't typically take very many strong stances early, I often don't even vote D1.  I read along, I do more thinking than typing, and I form gut reads as I go, and supplement those gut reads with quick ISOs of the players that I don't remember feeling strongly about, and offer a full list of reads and thoughts (mostly gut reads) at the end of the phase.  That's how my brain works D1.  

 

My activity level depends largely on what is going on in my life and how I feel - if I'm sick, I find it hard to concentrate.   I usually can't post at work, or if I can, it's only going to be a quick take on a particular post or issue, because I can only access DM on my phone during breaks and lunch.

 

When I have something I feel strongly about or think is of value to add to the discussion, I add it. That's how I play.  I also try to follow through when I say I'm going to do something. 

 

I get that you're not impressed.  I'm kind of terrible at this game in general, so it doesn't bother me that you agree.  

 

 

I know you don't care about other people's contributions, and I understand that other people being active doesn't mean anything about YOUR availability, but that doesn't change the fact I expect you to offer your thoughts.  You might not have a ton to say, but I have never played a game with you that I've seen you just completely avoid bringing something to the table.  I've also never seen you as mafia.  Coincidence?  Maybe, maybe not.

 

Do I fully believe you were not feeling well?  Sure.  Do I fully believe you've been working?  Absolutely.  I know you.

 

But I also know that there's something off about somebody who spends however hours reviewing the posts of the D1 nightkill looking for a "reason" beyond the most logical conclusion and they STILL come up with nothing.

 

This is you in House of Cards:

 

 

 

 

 

Leelou being the kill helps keep me from going down the wrong road with Dice (sorry Dicetastic, but I wasn't seeing it yet), and from paranoid tinfoiling about the EOD with Wombat/Cory which was starting to look really really overdone when I ISO'd Wombat this afternoon.

 

I'm thinking Verb is mafia here - the third I'm not too sure on - possibly Clov, possibly I was wrong on Cass (but dang, I feel terrible if she rolled mafia YET AGAIN).

 

Here's my notes from the ISO - most posts are accounted for, although I skipped some spam and summarized some of the excessive back and forth with Cory at EOD

 

 

 

Wombat notes:

 

 

- Early Darthe town read

- Town lean on Kaylee through pg 6

- "Odd vibes" from Nyn

- Accuses AJ of dodging Nyn's suspicion

- Soft defends Clov against Hally

- Calls Sooh null, hedges on her - can see why Nyn is scum reading her but doesn't like her lynch as the wagon feels "thin"

- Says Clov seems to be "standard reasonable Clov"

- Town reads Kaylee for calling Sooh a hypocrite

- Null on Leelou - needs to see her post actual content

- Votes AJ with no reason given

- Calls out Dice for "bad post" when he votes Sooh

- Hedges on Cass, agrees her reads are bad but unwilling to commit yet to whether or not they are scummy

- Calls Clov's push on Cory pg 18 "inane"

- Soft defends Darthe against Cass

- Nudges Cass for "too many words for a null read" in post 396

- Doesn't like self-meta/alignment WIFOM in Sooh's post

- Asks Sooh to clarify "soulreads" in her reads list

- Calls Nyn/Hally town

- Explains sequence of posts regarding Kaylee for Verbal

- Tells Verb he's "missing a lot of things"

- Notes pocketing is standard Cory MO

- Soft push on Verb, says he never sees anything Verb does as genuine

- Accuses Sooh of anti-spew

- Asks AJ to explain his statement that how Cory has handled Verb and Clov seems wolfy

- Characterizes Clov's push against Cass as "inane"

- Votes Tress with no explanation

- Asks Cory if he is trying to "reverse pocket" him

- Suggests Cory/Verb and Cory/Clov interaction as slight OMGUS, says he would expect Town Cory to go harder after the people pushing him but hedges on whether or not it's alignment indicative

- Says nothing is really that firm on D1 but he is not getting wolf vibes from Cory

- Suggests Cory used to get very upset when people falsely suspect him but acknowledges his meta is outdated

- Responds to AJ's statement that he thinks he (AJ) would bite back against his detractors more as mafia by pointing out that he used to do it a lot as town early on. (Reads as soft defending Cory against AJ)

- Responds to Cass questions re: his reads on Nyn, Darthe.  Calls Darthe a mild town read.

- Says he wants to lynch Sooh but wants to use remaining time in D1 productively and wants low posters to step up

- Tells Sooh if she's actually town to channel her frustration in to scumhunting

- Disagrees with Cory's premise on Nyn but states he has her as a dark green

- States he's not impressed with Sooh changing her read on Nyn to align with thread consensus

- Says Cory's position on wanting Sooh to be a villager because of her AtE makes sense but is dangerous, calls AtE a pretty big tool for town and scum

- Helps clarify Clov's five names he would not fight the lynch as being "in his POE"

- Says he adores Kaylee this game and in general but requests she avoid colored text inside quotes

- Votes Sooh

- Responds to Cass's post regarding her frustration with Darthe and Cory wanting her to play differently - says he kinda likes the post, acknowledges there is some utility in real-time interactions so Cory's request is legit

- Disappointed in Tress but waiting out the RL issues

- Thinks 1 of Darthe/Verb/Cory/Clov/Wombat/AJ is mafia

- States Kaylee was N0 town peek, lists top 3 mafia as Sooh, Tress, Dice, has his eye on AJ and Cass

- Responds to Sooh's reads list with Cory/Clov/Darthe as having maybe 1 mafia, Dice/Cass having 1 or 2 stating the "wolf trifecta" doesn't look too good to him

- Expands on that statement saying it looks like anti-spew

- Asks Leelou what's with her scum reads on Wombat and Clov

- Asks Leelou if there's something wrong with his scolding, and states he feels Sooh is scum, Tress is scummy/inactive, and AJ is sketchy.

- Says he barely remembers Clov's pushes

- Says Verb is annoying him, some stuff looks like good effort and some looks "thick-headed"

- Posts reads list:  Wombat/Kaylee as blue, Bewbs/Darthe dark green, Cory light green, Lee/Clov/Verb null, Cass/AJ yellow, Dice/Tress/Sooh orange.

- Responds to Kaylee that he doesn't like how Sooh hasn't been trying to fight her lynch, says he doesn't like some of the votes on her but thinks they could be bus votes

- Seconds Kaylee's request for me to show that I'm town

- Doesn't understand why Leelou is jumping all over Clov re: his read on Dice, says he feels similarly about Dice and has him as a mild scum read.

- Responds to Nyn's comment that Dice should be null based on his low content that he will form a read based on one post if it sticks out enough.

- Moves me up to yellow tier after my reads list/argument with Cory end of D1

- After start of D2 posts "not lynching" list with Wombat, Kaylee, Clov, Tress in blue, and Bewbs in green, says everyone else needs to step it up

- Votes AJ and tells him to get off the sidelines

- Says he still doesn't get Leelou's reads and asks if she's scum, says Kaylee is 100% wrong calling Wombat/Clov w/w

- Responds to AJ saying either he is a wolf or they need to get on the same page

- Responds to AJ's potential mafia list of Wombat/Cory/Clov/Cass by saying he's batting .500 max, more likely .250

- Responds to Cass that the votes from Sooh's train that he didn't like were mostly Dice, but also Verb and AJ

- Asks how anyone has Clov as scum

- Asks Cass how Verb's anecdote about being burned by AtE qualifies as AtE

- Explains to Clov his dislike of Verb and AJ's votes on Sooh

- Asks Nyn to clarify where she has Leelou on her reads list

- Offers his opinion of Cory's meta with regard to AtE (ok when used by townies but not scum) - disagrees but understands the inclination

- States he is getting uncomfortable with Leelou but thinks it may be OMGUS so he wanted Nyn's opinion, agrees with Nyn that he doesn't understand why people are town reading Verb

- Explains further to Clov why he felt AJ's vote on Sooh could have been a bus vote

- Reiterates that Kaylee is a blue read

- Defends himself against AJ's suggestion he isn't working hard enough.  Says from AJ's scum POE, Cass is most likely mafia (3 to 1 odds over Cory) - says AJ/Cass/Dice are his top 3 mafia suspects

- Asks Verb why he didn't think Sooh/Cass could be V/V, and why he should have Verb as town

- Responds to Verb's Wombat/Clov thoughts with "Bleh. Not helping."

- Explains to Cass what he meant by DADV with regard to the Sooh lynch/Verb & Aj's votes

- Explains to AJ why he is not very firm on his mafia reads of AJ/Cass/Dice

- Hates AJ's VT claim

- Plays along with AJ's suggestion to consider backup mafia candidates if all of AJ/Dice/Cass are town - agrees they would be Cory/Leelou/Verb, all of whom are null/mixed in his mind - but thinks he's unlikely to be wrong on all of his top suspects

- Points out that Darthe being Verb's N0 peek shouldn't have made Cass seem more suspicious for attacking Darthe as townies often attack townies, especially D1

- Accepts Cass' explanation of her comment about AtE and Verb's vote on Sooh, says he'd have thought Verb's vote was sketchy enough without the AtE

- Explains to Cass why he doesn't think DADV applies 100% to AJ/Verb votes on Sooh - it's more of a thread-wide thing than an individual tell

- Denies trying to push Kaylee with his explanation of SHC, reiterates he has her as town and thought Clov's push was silly

- Votes Cory for "not actually doing anything but flinging baseless crap" at him

- Responds to Verb's question why he's arguing with a town read of his that he likes to argue with people who try to lynch him

- Asks Cory what his problem is and tells him to vote someone who might actually be a wolf

- States Verb is not doing himself any favors nudging Wombat, reiterates that Cory is "wolfing"

- States Cory is either a wolf or their best friend, unsure which

- Continues to accuse Cory of doing no work and camping a vote on him

- Demands Cory reveal his N1 peek/cover

- States Cory is trying to imply he has a scum peek on Wombat, and states this has outed him as not the cop on the same day as AJ outed himself as not being the cop - says this was a ploy cooked up by AJ and Cory on their QT in the event that Darthe did not flip cop in order to try to out the real cop.  States that the fact that Cory is trying to lynch him implies that both of his peeks are correct and Kaylee and Clov are town.

- Tells Cory he might as well concede and asks who the 3rd mafia is

- Continues arguing with Cory

- Accuses Cory of killing Darthe

 

 

 

Going to go back to his reads lists real quick and quote them for reference.

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, that's a big list of notes.  But you're giving things that contribute to the conversation.  It's not five hundred posts of spam, but it shows what you're thinking.  Your ISO earlier gave a hell of a lot more questions than answers.  

 

 

That was me in House of Cards on Day 3, with a mafia flip to work from and the seer recently dead.  Surely you can see the difference there?  

 

Now if Bender flips mafia, and I'm still not able to draw any salient conclusions, you can feel free to draw conclusions.

[Cory Caboose]

Vote Count day 2

 

Bender (6/11) Yates, NotBob, shadooh, Dice, Tab, Songstress
Yates (2/11) Clov, Bender
Clov (1/11) Pralaya

Not voting
Thane, BFG

 

Roughly 1 hour remaining.

[Clovdyx]

There's about an hour left.  There's no way we're swinging a last minute CFD, so I'm not going to fight this lynch anymore.  I know for a fact he doesn't have a guilty on me, and if any of you think there's even the slightest chance Yates has a guilty on Bender this game, PM me after the game and I will further explain to you why this is never the case.  

 

That being said, I can't rule out that Yates is somehow town and right about Bender, anyways.  I don't believe he is, but I've been wrong before.  I think him being scum is the more likely scenario, but to his "credit", I have no trouble believing vanilla Yates would do something stupid like hard claim cop and pretend to have a guilty peek just so people listen to him.  Kudos to him if it somehow works out (I'm still going to think you're a moron, though). 

[dicetosser1]

im voting Bender becasue I think they are mafia.

 

Yates is liable to be fake claiming. Not like its the first time ive seen it.

 

I think Zander has confirmed my thinking. To me it seems like he really started to do antispew

[鲍勃不是我的名字]

There's about an hour left.  There's no way we're swinging a last minute CFD, so I'm not going to fight this lynch anymore.  I know for a fact he doesn't have a guilty on me, and if any of you think there's even the slightest chance Yates has a guilty on Bender this game, PM me after the game and I will further explain to you why this is never the case.  

 

That being said, I can't rule out that Yates is somehow town and right about Bender, anyways.  I don't believe he is, but I've been wrong before.  I think him being scum is the more likely scenario, but to his "credit", I have no trouble believing vanilla Yates would do something stupid like hard claim cop and pretend to have a guilty peek just so people listen to him.  Kudos to him if it somehow works out (I'm still going to think you're a moron, though). 

 

pew,.. pew...twofer on D2.

[seph]

13 mins until dl