[Standard] The Matrix Reloaded - Game Over

Cory Caboose · October 28, 2015

... That was a post Yates made

What does that have to do with anyone's reads? Why are AGGRAVATED?

Clovdyx · October 28, 2015

I feel good enough about him that he's above the lynch line for this phase, anyway.
I just don't have a lot of people below the lynch line. And that's a problem.

It's basically Rack, Sooh, Dice, BFG?? I *might* consider a case on Pral. But probably not today. And the irony there is it's not because of his play but because of his wedding joke. And I don't even want to discourage Pral from joking but it just seemed notably out of character and potentially a pocket attempt.

I'm pretty happy with a lynch on Tab, Sooh, Lenlo, or Pral at this point, and I would have no qualms with Rack or BFG. I felt decent enough with Nomi as a candidate yesterday, but I do appreciate his effort, and even if I disagree with a pretty good amount of the stuff he's saying...that doesn't make him scum. I'm going to do a re-read on him and make a final decision but I have a feeling I'm going to move in a different direction.

Nope, I guess I'm keeping him in my suspect pool. I really wanted to remove him because he seems to be trying and working towards a solve, but there's just a couple things that I have a hard time believing he is capable of saying as town. And quite frankly, I don't know how seemingly nobody pointed this out before.

1) Rack

2) Sooh

3) Sili

4) Thane

5) Hallia

6) Shad

7) Taborline

8) Lenlo

9) Yates

10) Zander

11) Corlanna (Cory/Alanna)

12) Parlaya

13) Nomi

14) Dice

15) BFG

16) Clov

This is the player list, and this is my town, including myself ofc-

1) Sili- he's not town because he's finding scums. He's town because he's a townie acting like one. This won't change in my mind unless something extremely drastic happens. Even if Sili lynches me incorrectly, you do not lynch Sili. His body of work is... spammy and sloppy, to say the least, but it's not mafia.

2) Zander- I am less confident about Zander than I am about Sili. But, this is a true blue townie and his paranoia is exactly where you'd expect it to be, even if it is misguided. He's playing one of the better scum games of his life if he's scum here. He's relaxed, honest, and everything he says flows from where a Zander's mind would. I think he's going to tunnel some townies before finding a scum but he will find a scum if you keep him around long enough. And you almost definitely shouldn't lynch him. I'm very confident here.

3) Corlanna- I understand Hallia's thoughts about Alanna's posts, but she has done enough where I'm fairly confident she's a townie by herself, and Cory simply is a townie. Therefore she's gotta be. Confidence: My gut says hell yes they're townies, my head says they can fool me. I am not underestimating them. So I am very very enthusiastic about them being townie, but my confidence level is a few ticks below where it is on Zander. I'd still give them lots of space to work. You don't lynch here anytime soon.

4) Shad- I feel my work on Shad is incomplete, but my early assessment is that Shad is also a trustworthy townie. I will have to ISO Shad and talk with her more, but for the foreseeable, I'm good. Shad's work to date looks excellent.

5) Hallia- my suspicions on her vanished when I examined her work as she returned to play. Yes I'm aware that yet another reversal from me will make you question me more. This is where I stand now, and I can go into more detail as to why. Confidence level: It's not as high as Shad. That's why these are in order. I want to do more follow up but for now, I'm not lynching Hallia day one.

----gap of confidence---

6) Sooh- Her game so far has struggled to get off the ground. But she's been busy. She had precisely one post that looked like a clear indicator she was a townie, and unfortunately, I can't be that confident on the read based on only that. But, it was enough to put her in my townie camp. You definitely keep looking at her and you definitely make sure she gets on record as to her feelings as to why people are which alignment. You also give her the time to make such posts. Rushing her lynch is incorrect but I wouldn't say I'd be surprised if and when it happens, and if she flips scum there, it would be a less likely outcome imo but not one I can discount.

7) Thane- could be higher than Sooh in terms of confidence but although I feel like he's going to be a townie in most cases, he has the potential to be an endgame wolf. You should not lynch him without just cause but I wouldn't give him a pass to the endgame, he's got to earn it.

---gap of confidence---

Now we get into where I don't think I'm going to have a good time making an accurate read of you based on your work so far. I will need several days to get a handle on you folks, and I'll be ISOing you as much as I can. Please get your opinions on record as much as possible if you haven't already.

8) Taborline, Parlaya, BFG

I have no reason to not think you're townies. That said, I have not looked at any of you in-depth. I have no confidence on the lean, just a general vague feeling.

Those are my townies.

Now, these are my suspects, in reverse order of confidence.

5) Yates- He's done a lot, but none of it has made me feel like he's a villager. He has also done nothing specific to make me suspect him. But I got a general feeling of unease earlier and I wanted him to respond to my poke vote and engage me. I feel like villager Yates would question me or at least talk to me, because I'm there. That's really all villager Yates needs. That he has not done so gives me a general feeling like he's not solving the game. Confidence level: Pretty weak. He could wow me and show me he's a townie, he has that capability.

He hasn't done so, and he's had the opportunity. Thus, a suspect.

4) Rack- residual concern, mostly. I don't think he's acquitted himself, but I do think I'd need more time to pin him down confidently. I do think he's begun trying to solve, and if that keeps up, it will improve my position on him because some of what he's said looks good to me.

3) Lenlo- also probably residual concern. I need to ISO him and see if I can rethink my position on him. I get the sense... that he could be a townie because of his reaction to rack, but I also get the sense that he'd be capable of doing that as mafia. I think he is playing a tightly controlled game. I need to get to know him better to resolve my unease.or pin down an exact case.

4) Clov- My confidence about his village-ness disappeared largely due to his body of work. I get the feeling like he's simply the best active wolf in the game, dancing with the villagers with an impressive level of ad-libbing ability. His game looks beautiful. I also think there's more than meets the eye on Clov and after I look at Dice, I want to see if I can specifically shake my bad feelings about Clov. I can't pinpoint exactly what I think is wrong with him, and so, I will air my thoughts but I have no case to present against him, and if he's a townie, I need to try very hard to figure that out before end of round.

5) Dice- My confidence level here is about 75%. I think he blundered his alignment away when he chose his target and reasoning for today. There's a big gap between him and all my other suspects. Note how I reacted to all the other suspicion in my direction this game. Dice is attacking something he feels he can make look bad, and there's an agenda behind his suspicions which does not exist in anyone else who has put my name forward. It's clear that he's the outlier.

I can give you specifics on everyone except the trio I have listed under (8) and I can't give any specifics about Yates except the one thing I cited. Those are my least confident stances.

I think that's a solid first day but it can be improved upon, so there's still much work to do.

You are mafia and furthermore, your attitude is sucking the fun out of this game for me. You really should be ashamed of yourself, on an out of character level.

I will not allow my displeasure with that to affect the game otherwise, but you really should re-evaluate what you accuse others of.

All of these things are statements he could theoretically make without knowing the individuals, but I just can't fathom that he makes all of these statements - especially those I've enlarged - without some insider information. He's made it very clear that he knows Sooh from somewhere else, so I can't rule out the possibility that she gave him a run down on half the players in the game during sign ups, but it doesn't seem particularly LIKELY to me.

The latter one is really the one that gives me the most trouble. I've given metas to players before for games I wasn't in. BFG asked me about Rack's meta about a week ago. But it never occurred to me to mention his character.

I'm prepared to table this for today, just because I'm concerned I'm getting to the point of WANTING him to be mafia, but I'm not going to write him off entirely.

Cory Caboose · October 28, 2015

[v]Nomi[/v]

Wagonssss

Clovdyx · October 28, 2015

I don't feel like Yates is advocating "lynching the low posters" because they're low posters, and I really don't like you trying to spin it that way. If anything, his later post kind of suggests the opposite.

Clovdyx · October 28, 2015

I don't feel like Yates is advocating "lynching the low posters" because they're low posters, and I really don't like you trying to spin it that way. If anything, his later post kind of suggests the opposite.

Edited because it wasn't the next post, it was slightly later.

Clovdyx · October 28, 2015

[v]Nomi[/v]

Wagonssss

You would.

Sooh · October 28, 2015

... That was a post Yates made

What does that have to do with anyone's reads? Why are AGGRAVATED?

Hello. Have we met? Have you ever seen anyone push me for posting too little? I guess I'm just too scarred from being at a receiving end of suspicion based on post count one time too many.

Nolder · October 28, 2015

Votecount

Nomi - Clov, Dice, Thane, Corlanna (4)

Rack - Sili, Yates, Lenlo (3)

Zander - Pral, Rack (2)

Dice - Nomi, Hallia (2)

Lenlo - Zander (1)

Hallia - Sooh (1)

Taborline - Shad (1)

With 16 alive it takes 9 to lynch.
Deadline: Friday 30th 3PM PST.

Lenlo · October 28, 2015

I thought you hated wagonomics cory?

Zander? · October 28, 2015

Well I had some posts queued up but I lost them so oh well. But I think the push on me is stupid but not scummy. I think it was silli that was saying they were expecting me to finally say something when I got back but I pretty clearly stated in my post that I wasn't going to actually be able to catch up until later. So now I'm gonna give you some thoughts.

I don't really set out with a concrete strategy, but the Lenlo thing was kinda just looking for actions. I wasn't entirely happy with Lenlo's reactions to it but it wasn't terrible and I have a bigger scum read anyways.

I think Zander is scum. I thought his opening post felt forced but some people said it was just him so I was like whatever. Someone else pointed this out (I forget who) but he's spent a lot of time just defending and backing people up. It's a pretty easy tactic to lay low and get on some people's good side. Zander said that he had been attacking people though, but it wasn't a high risk one. He just jumped on the popular Lenlo bandwagon. His reasoning wasn't good either, Lenlo imo was pretty clearly just using a mostly gut read on that person who had barely posted so I didn't get why Zander was making a big deal about it. It felt like a weak reason to jump on a popular bandwagon. I'm gonna Vote: Zander

Sorry Z, meant for you to respond to this one.

This is a concern that isnt coming from me, so maybe youll actually answer it instead of dancing around it with gifs and pictures.

ok i did respond to this already.

visual aids are important though....

I will admit, you have been on point with your pictures/gifs. If anything, you put effort into those.

[v]Rack[/v]

He hasnt done or explained anything I had hoped he would, so im cool with this. Maybe enough votes will get him to actually talk.

Sili Quirrels · October 28, 2015

[v]Nomi[/v]

Wagonssss

??????????????????????????????????????

Shad_ · October 28, 2015

I feel good enough about him that he's above the lynch line for this phase, anyway.
I just don't have a lot of people below the lynch line. And that's a problem.

It's basically Rack, Sooh, Dice, BFG?? I *might* consider a case on Pral. But probably not today. And the irony there is it's not because of his play but because of his wedding joke. And I don't even want to discourage Pral from joking but it just seemed notably out of character and potentially a pocket attempt.

I'm pretty happy with a lynch on Tab, Sooh, Lenlo, or Pral at this point, and I would have no qualms with Rack or BFG. I felt decent enough with Nomi as a candidate yesterday, but I do appreciate his effort, and even if I disagree with a pretty good amount of the stuff he's saying...that doesn't make him scum. I'm going to do a re-read on him and make a final decision but I have a feeling I'm going to move in a different direction.

Nope, I guess I'm keeping him in my suspect pool. I really wanted to remove him because he seems to be trying and working towards a solve, but there's just a couple things that I have a hard time believing he is capable of saying as town. And quite frankly, I don't know how seemingly nobody pointed this out before.

1) Rack

2) Sooh

3) Sili

4) Thane

5) Hallia

6) Shad

7) Taborline

8) Lenlo

9) Yates

10) Zander

11) Corlanna (Cory/Alanna)

12) Parlaya

13) Nomi

14) Dice

15) BFG

16) Clov

This is the player list, and this is my town, including myself ofc-

1) Sili- he's not town because he's finding scums. He's town because he's a townie acting like one. This won't change in my mind unless something extremely drastic happens. Even if Sili lynches me incorrectly, you do not lynch Sili. His body of work is... spammy and sloppy, to say the least, but it's not mafia.

2) Zander- I am less confident about Zander than I am about Sili. But, this is a true blue townie and his paranoia is exactly where you'd expect it to be, even if it is misguided. He's playing one of the better scum games of his life if he's scum here. He's relaxed, honest, and everything he says flows from where a Zander's mind would. I think he's going to tunnel some townies before finding a scum but he will find a scum if you keep him around long enough. And you almost definitely shouldn't lynch him. I'm very confident here.

3) Corlanna- I understand Hallia's thoughts about Alanna's posts, but she has done enough where I'm fairly confident she's a townie by herself, and Cory simply is a townie. Therefore she's gotta be. Confidence: My gut says hell yes they're townies, my head says they can fool me. I am not underestimating them. So I am very very enthusiastic about them being townie, but my confidence level is a few ticks below where it is on Zander. I'd still give them lots of space to work. You don't lynch here anytime soon.

4) Shad- I feel my work on Shad is incomplete, but my early assessment is that Shad is also a trustworthy townie. I will have to ISO Shad and talk with her more, but for the foreseeable, I'm good. Shad's work to date looks excellent.

5) Hallia- my suspicions on her vanished when I examined her work as she returned to play. Yes I'm aware that yet another reversal from me will make you question me more. This is where I stand now, and I can go into more detail as to why. Confidence level: It's not as high as Shad. That's why these are in order. I want to do more follow up but for now, I'm not lynching Hallia day one.

----gap of confidence---

6) Sooh- Her game so far has struggled to get off the ground. But she's been busy. She had precisely one post that looked like a clear indicator she was a townie, and unfortunately, I can't be that confident on the read based on only that. But, it was enough to put her in my townie camp. You definitely keep looking at her and you definitely make sure she gets on record as to her feelings as to why people are which alignment. You also give her the time to make such posts. Rushing her lynch is incorrect but I wouldn't say I'd be surprised if and when it happens, and if she flips scum there, it would be a less likely outcome imo but not one I can discount.

7) Thane- could be higher than Sooh in terms of confidence but although I feel like he's going to be a townie in most cases, he has the potential to be an endgame wolf. You should not lynch him without just cause but I wouldn't give him a pass to the endgame, he's got to earn it.

---gap of confidence---

Now we get into where I don't think I'm going to have a good time making an accurate read of you based on your work so far. I will need several days to get a handle on you folks, and I'll be ISOing you as much as I can. Please get your opinions on record as much as possible if you haven't already.

8) Taborline, Parlaya, BFG

I have no reason to not think you're townies. That said, I have not looked at any of you in-depth. I have no confidence on the lean, just a general vague feeling.

Those are my townies.

Now, these are my suspects, in reverse order of confidence.

5) Yates- He's done a lot, but none of it has made me feel like he's a villager. He has also done nothing specific to make me suspect him. But I got a general feeling of unease earlier and I wanted him to respond to my poke vote and engage me. I feel like villager Yates would question me or at least talk to me, because I'm there. That's really all villager Yates needs. That he has not done so gives me a general feeling like he's not solving the game. Confidence level: Pretty weak. He could wow me and show me he's a townie, he has that capability.

He hasn't done so, and he's had the opportunity. Thus, a suspect.

4) Rack- residual concern, mostly. I don't think he's acquitted himself, but I do think I'd need more time to pin him down confidently. I do think he's begun trying to solve, and if that keeps up, it will improve my position on him because some of what he's said looks good to me.

3) Lenlo- also probably residual concern. I need to ISO him and see if I can rethink my position on him. I get the sense... that he could be a townie because of his reaction to rack, but I also get the sense that he'd be capable of doing that as mafia. I think he is playing a tightly controlled game. I need to get to know him better to resolve my unease.or pin down an exact case.

4) Clov- My confidence about his village-ness disappeared largely due to his body of work. I get the feeling like he's simply the best active wolf in the game, dancing with the villagers with an impressive level of ad-libbing ability. His game looks beautiful. I also think there's more than meets the eye on Clov and after I look at Dice, I want to see if I can specifically shake my bad feelings about Clov. I can't pinpoint exactly what I think is wrong with him, and so, I will air my thoughts but I have no case to present against him, and if he's a townie, I need to try very hard to figure that out before end of round.

5) Dice- My confidence level here is about 75%. I think he blundered his alignment away when he chose his target and reasoning for today. There's a big gap between him and all my other suspects. Note how I reacted to all the other suspicion in my direction this game. Dice is attacking something he feels he can make look bad, and there's an agenda behind his suspicions which does not exist in anyone else who has put my name forward. It's clear that he's the outlier.

I can give you specifics on everyone except the trio I have listed under (8) and I can't give any specifics about Yates except the one thing I cited. Those are my least confident stances.

I think that's a solid first day but it can be improved upon, so there's still much work to do.

You are mafia and furthermore, your attitude is sucking the fun out of this game for me. You really should be ashamed of yourself, on an out of character level.

I will not allow my displeasure with that to affect the game otherwise, but you really should re-evaluate what you accuse others of.

All of these things are statements he could theoretically make without knowing the individuals, but I just can't fathom that he makes all of these statements - especially those I've enlarged - without some insider information. He's made it very clear that he knows Sooh from somewhere else, so I can't rule out the possibility that she gave him a run down on half the players in the game during sign ups, but it doesn't seem particularly LIKELY to me.

The latter one is really the one that gives me the most trouble. I've given metas to players before for games I wasn't in. BFG asked me about Rack's meta about a week ago. But it never occurred to me to mention his character.

I'm prepared to table this for today, just because I'm concerned I'm getting to the point of WANTING him to be mafia, but I'm not going to write him off entirely.

I'm uncertain which conclusion you are drawing here. Do you think Nomi knows a number of players in this game, or are you suspecting that a scum mate is tipping him off in QT?

Shad_ · October 28, 2015

This is gonna be some epically pro-scum rand where Cory and Clov are team mates and never lose because I'm sure as hell not going there.

Shad_ · October 28, 2015

Also Lenlo/Rack interplay has been weird all game.

Hallia · October 28, 2015

I know where Sooh is coming from

Cory Caboose · October 28, 2015

I thought you hated wagonomics cory?

Do you even know what that means?

Lenlo · October 28, 2015

I thought you hated wagonomics cory?

Do you even know what that means?

Not really, no. I just use words and hope they work out.

Cory Caboose · October 28, 2015

[v]Nomi[/v]

Wagonssss

??????????????????????????????????????

Voting is fun

Cory Caboose · October 28, 2015

I thought you hated wagonomics cory?
Do you even know what that means?

Not really, no. I just use words and hope they work out.

I think this is your best post so far this game

Cory Caboose · October 28, 2015

I am currently driving and using voice to text but I should be able to get on the laptop in like an hour or two

Lenlo · October 28, 2015

I thought you hated wagonomics cory?
Do you even know what that means?
Not really, no. I just use words and hope they work out.

I think this is your best post so far this game

Guess it worked out then. Ill have to save it to use again.

I am currently driving and using voice to text but I should be able to get on the laptop in like an hour or two

Yo, dont die.

Clovdyx · October 28, 2015

My concern is the latter, Shad.

Shad_ · October 28, 2015

My concern is the latter, Shad.

Have you actually seen that happen before? Does it imply anyone as a likely partner of Nomi flips wolf?

Shad_ · October 28, 2015

Bah, baby free for the first time since this game's started and you all go silent.

Clovdyx · October 29, 2015

My concern is the latter, Shad.

Have you actually seen that happen before? Does it imply anyone as a likely partner of Nomi flips wolf?

Have I ever seen what happen? People have reads that seemingly are based on information they shouldn't have, and it indicates them being mafia? Yes - several times.

I would have to really dig into it to see if I feel it's more/less likely to come from anyone in particular, but to be honest, I'll focus more on his pushes and how people treated him. Considerably less pure guess work than figuring out where the info's coming from.

[Standard] The Matrix Reloaded - Game Over

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