[Advanced] The Usual Suspects Mafia - GAME OVER - COPS WIN

[Shad_]

WoTs are literally giving me a headache. >_> Talya

But what I'm seeing so far is it looked like Lenlo was initially called out for something he didn't actually do. "As I said previously" was not the first time he mentioned AJ. This was:
 

 

Who is the best lynch for the day Clov

I know you didnt ask me, but I wanna answer to. ATM I am thinking either Zander/Seph or AJ. Both have interacted with a good number of people so we can get information from all that, and both have also left me with bad feelings. I will try to go back and get specific examples in the future, but im taking a shower after this post so it will have to wait.

 

It was part of his WoT, and understandably easy to miss. But it's there, so I don't see anything fishy about "as I said previously".

Another issue with him is that wtl AJ was too convenient, because AJ had recently been the subject of conversation. I'm not really sold on that in isolation because a lot of players had been the subject of scrutiny at that point in the game, and a similar point could have been made if he'd wtl them.  The problem seems to extend from his lack of explanation--but he did give an explanation, people just didn't see it buried in a wall of text.

The main problem for me is that what Lenlo said about AJ apparently didn't apply at the time, and he's since claimed he meant someone else but doesn't remember who. And that does bug me, because while I've honestly forgotten what a lot of players have said in this game, I remember my gut feel about them. Lenlo's talking about an information lynch though, not a scum read lynch, so maybe? it's an honest mistake. I don't know. I want to check and see if Lenlo brought this up himself or if he was called out on it first.  That's not an easy chore because Lenlo makes the original post on p55 and the correction comes on p100...  If Lenlo brought it up himself, it doesn't look as bad imo.

 

I definitely think he's a suspect. Not completely sold on lynching him yet.

[Songstress]

OFFICIAL VOTE COUNT (unchanged):

 

Sephander (3): John Snow, Wombicat, Lenlo

Kivam (5): Hallia, Nyce, Sephander, Sili, Laine

Lenlo (6): CorKey, Razen, AJ, Yates, ClovFG, Kivam

John Snow (2): Pral, Wish/Celeste

Hallia (1): Talya

 

 

Not Voting (3): Csarmi, Nolderf, Shad

 

With 20 alive, it takes 11 to lynch.

 

Deadline is Monday Aug 17th @ 9am MST/Noon EST

 

DEADLINE IS IN 3 HOURS AND 20 MINUTES

[Kivam]

 

Laine - your argument doesn't hold.  I said I've seen Pral's scum game, I know he lurks, and therefore, if I'm going to catch him when he's scum I need content.  That's the exact opposite of saying I'd scumread him based on meta, since if I was going on meta (and assuming Pral's town meta was different) I wouldn't need content at all - I'd just say "he's lurking, therefore he's scum".  Instead, my assumption was that lurking is a null tell for Pral - which is why I need him to post content.

 

Can you explain why you think that's contradictory?

My problem is that that is not how I, or others, read your OP. I read it as you basing his read off of a scum meta, as in you associate lurky Pral as scummy Pral, and not that you were prodding for content. Later realized that you have no town meta on Pralaya. Therefore, I am to assume that your meta is incomplete and you have no right calling him/or anyone else out for being lurky as either alignment when you don't have that experience with them. So it feels like you deliberately associating Pralaya as scum through a false meta.

 

Later you had a post disowning meta and you stated something about good players being consistent in any alignment. I feel like this was contradictory because A. you used an incomplete meta to associate Pral with scum, B. you basically reject that notion because meta is null in your opinion. 

 

 

That's fair ... as an initial assumption.  You haven't played with me enough to know my feelings on meta as an alignment tell (though frankly, you have played with me enough to know that in a game where I'm scum I wouldn't claim to reject meta as a useful alignment tell unless I actually believed it and would say the same as town - which means you know for a fact that I actually do reject meta as a useful alignment tell).

 

But now read my posts in the way I actually meant them - I've seen Pral play a lurky scum game, so I need content to catch him if he's scum here - and see if that changes your interpretation.  Are my posts consistently readable that way, or is it a bad fit?  The former is an indication that was my meaning all along; the latter evidence that it was a backfilled dodge.  Wondering if your read on me is capable of progressing based on new information, or if you are locked into how you initially viewed me.

[Yates]

Less than 3 hours to go... I'm getting caught up from BFG's post. Don't think it should take that long.

[Zander?]

 

@bFG - I'm on mobile, what's going on in 1322?

That was Nolder's reads list

 

 

 

@bFG - I'm on mobile, what's going on in 1322?

That was Nolder's reads list

 

 

i know Darthe said he was busy with RL stuff....but still im finding the lack of anything from this slot worrisome imo.

[Yates]

The key thing that stood out to me in Belichick (after several ISO's) was how much difficulty he had reading people as mafia and how instead his inclination was to town read pretty much everyone (technically he had me as his bottom 2, but whenever I challenged him he'd move me to possible frustrated townie). This game from what I can recall, he's only really gone 'after' Kivam, but is treating several other people as possible suspects and more importantly isn't town reading the whole thread.

This is potentially a good take. I stopped reading Belicheat after I was NKed on N1 but I think this is more accurate than not. My only hesitation here is less on Zander evolving as a player and more on the fact he's in a hydra. So how much is Seph rubbing off on his "reads," you know?

[Zander?]

 

damn mobile.

 

Being your first real game related post, I find it hard to believe that you would be so wrong on basically 1 of 2 you were suspecting. I know regardless of alignment, I am always aware of who I am suspecting and why.

Already said, I dunno. It was the same day I moved. I wasnt particularly in it. Wouldnt call it my first real game related post either. Alright if regardless of alignment I know who I am suspecting, then what alignment completely screws up like that and then owns up to the screw up?

 

 

 

Either alignment could do that. In this case it looks like trying to ease off someone who was a possible lynch candidate before, but is now not. I have seen you be very nonchalant "oops" as scum, firsthand, so right now it's hard for me to buy it.

 

thank you for adding that Key.

[alannalynn]

 

 

 

Laine - your argument doesn't hold.  I said I've seen Pral's scum game, I know he lurks, and therefore, if I'm going to catch him when he's scum I need content.  That's the exact opposite of saying I'd scumread him based on meta, since if I was going on meta (and assuming Pral's town meta was different) I wouldn't need content at all - I'd just say "he's lurking, therefore he's scum".  Instead, my assumption was that lurking is a null tell for Pral - which is why I need him to post content.

 

Can you explain why you think that's contradictory?

My problem is that that is not how I, or others, read your OP. I read it as you basing his read off of a scum meta, as in you associate lurky Pral as scummy Pral, and not that you were prodding for content. Later realized that you have no town meta on Pralaya. Therefore, I am to assume that your meta is incomplete and you have no right calling him/or anyone else out for being lurky as either alignment when you don't have that experience with them. So it feels like you deliberately associating Pralaya as scum through a false meta.

 

Later you had a post disowning meta and you stated something about good players being consistent in any alignment. I feel like this was contradictory because A. you used an incomplete meta to associate Pral with scum, B. you basically reject that notion because meta is null in your opinion. 

 

 

That's fair ... as an initial assumption.  You haven't played with me enough to know my feelings on meta as an alignment tell (though frankly, you have played with me enough to know that in a game where I'm scum I wouldn't claim to reject meta as a useful alignment tell unless I actually believed it and would say the same as town - which means you know for a fact that I actually do reject meta as a useful alignment tell).

 

But now read my posts in the way I actually meant them - I've seen Pral play a lurky scum game, so I need content to catch him if he's scum here - and see if that changes your interpretation.  Are my posts consistently readable that way, or is it a bad fit?  The former is an indication that was my meaning all along; the latter evidence that it was a backfilled dodge.  Wondering if your read on me is capable of progressing based on new information, or if you are locked into how you initially viewed me.

 

 

I looked through your ISO, less back-tracky if you look at it like that (though you do realize that you are far too wordy for my brain after getting off work five hours ago?) And it does hold up, definitely, especially since I seem to have missed a lot in all these pages. I also noticed you calling your own emo, which I didn't see the first time it was posted, as well, so scratch me asking for that in one of my WoTs. Still not a fan of you proving a point like that, it muddies things.

 

[unvote]

 

Not really sure where to go from here. I have mild suspicions of Lenlo and Nolderp but not enough time to look their ISOs over in enough detail (bedtime 10am).

Also not feeling the Hally suspicion: I saw your post on her and I'm not really getting the same feel from her posts

[wish-tree]

Ahhh I thought I had overslept! Didn't end up posting last night because I was too tired. But it wasn't 9 AM EST... Thank goodness.

I will get up and post some thoughts that I promised.

 

Also, you are incorrect, AJ. I am a Ne-aux type. :3

[Yates]

Okay. Hopefully see you guys later.

Wait. That's it? You're done?

[Songstress]

OFFICIAL VOTE COUNT:

 

Sephander (3): John Snow, Wombicat, Lenlo

Kivam (4): Hallia, Nyce, Sephander, Sili

Lenlo (6): CorKey, Razen, AJ, Yates, ClovFG, Kivam

John Snow (2): Pral, Wish/Celeste

Hallia (1): Talya

 

 

Not Voting (4): Csarmi, Nolderf, Shad, Laine

 

With 20 alive, it takes 11 to lynch.

 

Deadline is Monday Aug 17th @ 9am MST/Noon EST

 

DEADLINE IS IN 2 HOURS AND 15 MINUTES

[Zander?]

Really?

 

Because Z had votes and thread momentum heading toward his lynch. A vote on him was seemingly less likely to stand out. From scum POV, why at this point, would you push AJ over someone like that?

 

i like this point

 

 

also my placeholder for goodnight

 

Liking Dice/Nyn and Wish. I actually did like Mish and disliked Kiv, but I'm a bad Mish-reader and probably biased vs Kivam (out of the game stories are no-no).

 

Csarmi - this is another one of those no-explanation reads lists that have been popping up from a few people.  Can you explain what you saw from Nyce and Wish that you liked?

 

 

 

i mentioned this and im still waiting.

 

 

Really?

 

Because Z had votes and thread momentum heading toward his lynch. A vote on him was seemingly less likely to stand out. From scum POV, why at this point, would you push AJ over someone like that?

Cause following along isnt always a good idea. Less likely to stand out sure, but you think in a game with Cory, Yates, Darthe, Nolder, You, Nyn, Clov and Kiv/Mish one of you wouldnt atleast inspect that? Please. 

 

Better to go with whichever you think is scummier.

 

 

meh...people are gonna read into and inspect everything anyways.

[csarmi]

 

Okay. Hopefully see you guys later.

Wait. That's it? You're done?

Yes. :-(

 

Back tho.

[Andrej]

Good morning. I'll be around for the next ~45 minutes or so while I get ready.

 

@Shad - Lenlo did not correct himself. He was asked for reasons as to why I was suddenly a gut read of his and didn't provide anything - choosing to argue the phrasing of his statement with Key instead. It wasn't until he came back around pg 100 that he said he had me mixed up with someone else.

[WWWwombat]

Yates

Razen

[Kivam]

Anyone else getting that tingly dead air dead villager sense about now?  Maybe it's because I'm refreshing every five minutes since I'm still worried about my own survival, but I don't remember the thread being this slow at any point since the very start of D1.

[csarmi]

Cory, it wasn't a reaction test. It was a "come out and post" vote. As scum or town, I'd expect to get at least some content in response that i could *later* use to get a read of Pral. The only really overly scummy behavior would normally be entirely ignoring it, since that would suggest an actual dedication to lurking rather than just a pattern of behavior. Hence the vote - in a game this large it would be easy to miss a generic prod for content while skimming. Much harder to miss an actual bold red vote that's also counted on every vote count

 

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

I think Kivam makes sense, i can follow him just fine. I don't see the misrep. Of course what he does is kind of useless, from what i gather Pray would do his own thing regardless.

 

Is this why Kiv/Mish takes votes for or is there more? Cause Mish looks town to me.

[csarmi]

Anyone else getting that tingly dead air dead villager sense about now?  Maybe it's because I'm refreshing every five minutes since I'm still worried about my own survival, but I don't remember the thread being this slow at any point since the very start of D1.

Maybe. Or it's just monday morning.

[WWWwombat]

In the mid-90s atm.  Getting tired of reading multiquotes so I'm gonna try to cut down on them myself.

[Andrej]

Yates

Razen

You're late to the party, bro.

[WWWwombat]

I have a request. Rather than these massive, multi-party, single person every post review, could I convince you to try and merge it into a single post atleast? Because atm my eyes are glazing over reading these things. The thread is over flowing with these things and they are actually harming the game imo.

 

 

Listen to Einstein. Keep it simple.

 

<3

[Andrej]

The irony of that post hasn't even really struck you yet, Wombat.

[csarmi]

@Zander/Kivam:

 

Nyce is town for Nyn being Nyn and Dice intro and attitude. Town Dice doesnt care how he is viewed. Wolf Dice is often frozen (tends to post more on wolf chat than thread) and self conscious.

[Kivam]

OK, I have a conference call starting now.  Will hopefully be able to get back on before the deadline

[Andrej]

 

Anyone else getting that tingly dead air dead villager sense about now?  Maybe it's because I'm refreshing every five minutes since I'm still worried about my own survival, but I don't remember the thread being this slow at any point since the very start of D1.

Maybe. Or it's just monday morning.

Maybe.

 

I take it you don't know who you want to vote yet Csarmi?