[Advanced] The Usual Suspects Mafia - GAME OVER - COPS WIN

[Lenlo]

 

 

Really?

 

Because Z had votes and thread momentum heading toward his lynch. A vote on him was seemingly less likely to stand out. From scum POV, why at this point, would you push AJ over someone like that?

Cause following along isnt always a good idea. Less likely to stand out sure, but you think in a game with Cory, Yates, Darthe, Nolder, You, Nyn, Clov and Kiv/Mish one of you wouldnt atleast inspect that? Please. 

 

Better to go with whichever you think is scummier.

 

What? This answer doesn't make sense to me. Just a minute ago you said you would vote for AJ if you were scum because he scared you more. You asked me why you would vote for Z over him if you were scum. Now you are saying you would vote for the scummier person....which at the time was Z, who you voted for.

 

Sorry I wasnt clear. The first line was meant to answer your question to me, the second line to be what I did. The intent was to show that what I does not fit either reason to vote for either player as scum, because I am not scum.

[BFG]

I'm not sure how much of the past 20 pages or so that I really took in, but at the moment I'm feeling worse about Lenlo at this point than Kivam or Zander/Seph

 

There's an internal consistency to Kivam in the Pral vote aftermath. I think the ATE thing with Zander is different 'standards' of the use of ATE. I'm a little concerned still by the inclusion of meta at all in the Pral vote, I don't understand how he thinks. but that argument is going nowhere and I'd rather judge by future actions.

 

I'm not sure how much value this really has, but at the moment I'm currently light town on Zander. The key thing that stood out to me in Belichick (after several ISO's) was how much difficulty he had reading people as mafia and how instead his inclination was to town read pretty much everyone (technically he had me as his bottom 2, but whenever I challenged him he'd move me to possible frustrated townie). This game from what I can recall, he's only really gone 'after' Kivam, but is treating several other people as possible suspects and more importantly isn't town reading the whole thread. I can't be confident in this assessment, given how rapidly he's improving and due to the large nature of the game, town reading everyone would stand out more here than there

 

Lenlo is still in my group of nulls/?

[BFG]

*That should read nulls/unsures

[BFG]

Anyway, I'm out till tomorrow now

[Kivam]

Pral's post.  Makes some points I agree with, happy to see him contributing, want more.
 
Snipping to the one I'm glad to see other people making as well:

 

Between the Kiv sass and Mish's defensiveness, that is the way to go for now until I see anything better.
 
 
Vote: Kiv/Mish

I guess you did not see anything better, since your vote is still on them. I understand the whole things that happened afterwards, but did not see your reaction in the later parts of the game. Looks somewhat like you have parked your vote on them and happy with where you are.

 

@Hally, just don't see how you can square this with the reason you gave for voting me in the first place

[Kivam]

OFFICIAL VOTE COUNT:

 

Sephander (3): John Snow, Wombicat, Lenlo

Kivam (5): Hallia, Nyce, Sephander, Sili, Laine

Lenlo (5): CorKey, Razen, AJ, Yates, ClovFG

John Snow (2): Pral, Wish/Celeste

Hallia (2): Talya, Kivam

 

 

Not Voting (3): Csarmi, Nolderf, Shad

 

With 20 alive, it takes 11 to lynch.

 

Deadline is Monday Aug 17th @ 9am MST/Noon EST

 

OK, apparently something significant happened while I was rereading.  Going to stop at post 843 and catch up on more recent posts. 

 

[Kivam]

 

Should be two on hally, right?

OFFICIAL VOTE COUNT:Sephander (4): ClovFG, John Snow, Wombicat, LenloKivam (5): Hallia, Nyce, Sephander, Sili, LaineLenlo (2): CorKey, RazenJohn Snow (2): Pral, Wish/Celeste Laine (1): YatesHallia (1): Talya, KivamNot Voting (4): Csarmi, Nolderf, AJ, ShadWith 20 alive, it takes 11 to lynch.Deadline is Monday Aug 17th @ 9am MST/Noon EST

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

Yes, sorry - just spotted that. We've been doing a first birthday party today.

 

Happy birthday!

[Kivam]

 

That's spectacular!

 

[Kivam]

 

[cute.jpg]

I will see your cute.jpg and raise you a game related jpg...

 

 

I'm pretty sure I'm being pocketed by somebody...

 

 

OK, went back looking for what triggered the Lenlo votes, ended up with a ton of cuteness.  Not a bad mix

 

[Sili Quirrels]

I have returned. Gotta catch up.

[Sili Quirrels]

I'm not sure how much of the past 20 pages or so that I really took in, but at the moment I'm feeling worse about Lenlo at this point than Kivam or Zander/SephThere's an internal consistency to Kivam in the Pral vote aftermath. I think the ATE thing with Zander is different 'standards' of the use of ATE. I'm a little concerned still by the inclusion of meta at all in the Pral vote, I don't understand how he thinks. but that argument is going nowhere and I'd rather judge by future actions.I'm not sure how much value this really has, but at the moment I'm currently light town on Zander. The key thing that stood out to me in Belichick (after several ISO's) was how much difficulty he had reading people as mafia and how instead his inclination was to town read pretty much everyone (technically he had me as his bottom 2, but whenever I challenged him he'd move me to possible frustrated townie). This game from what I can recall, he's only really gone 'after' Kivam, but is treating several other people as possible suspects and more importantly isn't town reading the whole thread. I can't be confident in this assessment, given how rapidly he's improving and due to the large nature of the game, town reading everyone would stand out more here than there :dry:Lenlo is still in my group of nulls/?

He was less intuitive less aggressive imo but i read only a little.

 

Did not get the impression he townread more than normal.

[Sili Quirrels]

*That should read nulls/unsures

U support lynching from ur null list?

 

Who u think is mafia?

[Sili Quirrels]

 

 

Cool.

 

Town:

Razen

Hallia

Sili

Nyn

Bfg

Nol

AJ

 

[v]Zander[/v]

 

Not feeling the Kivam/Mish lynch atm.

Jon, what the hell was this about? I mean seriously, I appreciate the defense and all, but it would be more meaningful - and seem less like pocketing - if it was accompanied by something resembling content. Definitely in my WTL pile for today

I thought he was asked at the time to provide reasons. Therefore are you asking him again or are you fosing because he didnt follow up?

[Sili Quirrels]

I'm just going to start from page 75.

[Kivam]

 

 

Listen to Einstein. Keep it simple.

Your scum read on me.

 

Didnt say scum, said you were one of the better lynchs for the day and then voted for someone I felt was worse.

 

Ive actually liked your dedication to catching up, even if my eyes glaze over when attempting to read all these quote walls.

 

 

 

Yeah.

 

 

 

 

Semantics

 

 

You're missing the point then.

 

You're saying you don't have a scum read on me (your posts about me would indicate otherwise) but you're WTL me anyway for the info? At that point I don't think I had interacted with that many people to make that argument very valid.

 

 

 

If I recall correctly you said there were some posts that pinged and that AJ or Zander would make good info lynches, yet at that point I don't recall AJ interacting with many people???

 

 

 

First thing im gonna say, I was wrong. I had thought AJ had talked with more people early on. Turns out? He did jack-all until Pg 34 and then continued to do jack-all until yesterday where he flooded us with WoTs. So alot of Jack-all of AJ imo.

 

 

Was planning on doing a big WOT catch-up style post, but after reading ~30 something pages and seeing that I had less than 20 posts I wanted to actually comment on, I'll forego that and just take a big consciousness dump ITT. Most topics have been touched on and repeated enough that I don't feel the need to add anything - so I'll try to bring some fresh points to the thread.

 

Shad's joke vote on Seph early on reminds me of how he started in the Belichick game, which is cool considering our synergy in that one. I had some more of his stuff quoted in the queue before I wiped them all that I liked as well. His comments towards Hallia/wish-tree are pretty villagery and carry that sort of uncanny poise he has for a newer player. Good vibes from him thus far.

 

Wish-Tree strikes me as a Hallia.2 in the first few pages of the game. Don't know what that means yet but it's the impression I got, so there you have it.

 

Hallia and Nyn are passing the eyeball test so far. Halli's coming out strong against Kiv and I think her reaction to his whining is good in the sense that she's an emotive player and I would expect her to react that way to that sort of thing. Nyn's sharpness came out once she got past her intro catch-up. She's picking up on the details I think she would as town regarding Kiv's Pral vote, and the responses to Celeste/wish-tree are the amusingly blunt type we all know and love.

 

Wombat's OP at a glance makes me think the randomizing wasn't so good to him, more gut than anything. Wanna see him get more involved once things picked up more beyond the catch up style posts.

 

Zander/Seph/Laine seem to doing that townie circle jerk thing they like to do - we'll see how that progresses. Zander is easy going but I'll be looking for when he starts to make cases after our last game together where he got by a lot on being 'Zander'. Don't really have an opinion regarding Laine picking up Mynd's torch, the stance itself is null but we'll see where she goes with it. Not much about Seph stuck out to me beyond him reiterating a lot that he really likes wish-tree/Celeste.

 

Kivish slot giving me some troubles atm. I basically hate Kivam's approach this game, first with me and then later with Pral and the subsequent backtracking, but Mish feels pretty genuine with how she's reacting to things ITT. Wouldn't really have thought Mish would be the redeeming quality for them (no offense) but if they weren't paired I would support a Kiv wagon at this point.

His first real game post. Some reads, fine.  I disagree with them myself.

 

Feels like I'm forgetting to mention something, whatever.

 

It's been a long day/night.

Aaaaand hes gone.

 

Good morning :)

 

Walking Oliver atm so I got a few.

 

Yates looking pretty good to me skimming these pages.

 

@Mish - remember earlier where you said something earlier about liking to set traps that no one sees and Shad said he could relate? Think about that in conjunction with his vote and statements regarding parked votes. May not have been his intent, but he could be seeing who is paying attention.

A token gesture, posting stuff that doesnt really mean anything imo and looking active.

 

Razen you seem alright.

 

I agree with you regarding Nyn/Sili and their content

 

Your point on Lenlo doesn't mean anything regarding his alignment imo

More token. Afew more of these and I can play whack-a-scum at the arcade.

 

[v]Wombat[/v]

 

Seems people are starting to echo my thoughts here.

 

Need to leave for work now, I'll try to peek at the thread throughout the day if I get the chance.

People are following your thoughts on Wombat? All you had to say on Wombat was "Wombat's OP at a glance makes me think the randomizing wasnt so good to him, more gut than anything. Wanna see him get more involved once things picked up more beyond the catch up style posts.". Wow, a gut read that you then voted for.

 

After this you had the occasional interaction with someone, but nothing gameplay wise. So really you sat around on your bum for 30 pages, made a token effort, then sat around for another 50. Great contributions. I dunno why I ever thought you had done alot. Musta mixed you up with someone.

 

After this we have all of his catchup WoTs, which I will reference rather than quote to keep this in one post. Cause spam is bad kids.

 

Pgs 1-20

This one is largely just "I like this, ill reply to this jokey post, This looks interesting". Nothing telling imo, cause the first 20 pages were pretty barren for good gameplay stuff in my opinion.

 

Interested by the vote spread that I can see without being caught up in full.

 

Can't say I'm surprised with the Kivish wagon, but the Zeph one does.

 

Speaking of which, I'll [unvote] for now since I'm still catching up.

Hes catching up and sees that his Wombat train wasnt pickin up anymore, so better hop off it. Still disagree with the Kivish thing, but thats a dead horse at this point. He does make sure we all know that he is unvoting though, bringing attention to it and justifying it when he could just unvote and get back to catching up.

 

Hi wish.

 

Don't think we've really had the chance to speak yet :)

 

I'm still reading up - who are you and your other head arguing over currently? Perhaps as I read I can find figure out why/when you each thought that person was worthy of voting.

Not all the dedicated to catching up if your also trying to talk with someone in real time at the front of the thread, are you? To his credit he does keep up the conversation, brings some stuff from earlier in the thread up and in general does a good job here imo.

 

We get more catchup WoTs, that I still think are a net negative for the thread. We dont need people constantly going back and posting WoT after WoT after WoT. Just make it succinct, please.

 

After reading all of them, which was agonizing btw, I found I disagree with a good bit of it. Reference his total reads list (post 1967, Pg 99). I found Razen to be making cases without much real backing and then using those to show "Hey I did something."

 

Yates, Nyce and CorKey are fine where they are.

 

I disagree that what Pral has posted has been content laden. Dude has 15 posts and barely anything real in them.

 

Laine is Alannalynn right? I dont like this nick name, its not consistent with the posting name. :( 

 

Still disagree on Kivam. I dont think he would make a good lynch today. I think later on he will be useful in catching stuff, his lawyerness showing, and the reasons people voting him arnt that strong.

 

Disagree with me, naturaly. You cant lynch Leno.

 

 

 

 

Tl;Dr for those who wont read. I was wrong on AJ, thought he did more early when infact he did jack all. Still wouldnt call him town, cause alot of it is silly or wrong imo, but I dont have a reason to see him lynched anymore. Gonna do Zander next and maybe seph?

 

Ill try and keep it under control though cause the last thing we need is a flood of crap.

 

 

 

 

Lenlo - I liked Key's case on him. I think his backing for the Zeph vote is kinda garbage (the L-7 argument doesn't matter since it's hybrid hammer) and I dislike the way he's arguing semantics over clarifying his read on me - which seemingly came out of nowhere. Really don't like the 'info' angle he's applying to it either considering he's not evaluating Kivam in the same way. He's supposedly doing ISOs now, so we'll see what he comes up with but at this point I feel my vote is best served here.

Keys case was just as much semantics and made up lines as your accusing me of arguing with. Ill try and answer this though since im readin everything.

 

Im not evaluating Kivam that way, because I dont think think Kivam would be a good lynch regardless of how many people hes interacted with. If we applied this logic to everything we would just lynch the biggest posters every time and thats stupid. Kivam/Mish acted in a way I expected them to, so what alot of you seem to have had problems with I didnt.

 

As for the hybrid hammer thing... I got nothin. I missed that part of the rules. Sorry. Guess I should read those huh?

 

 

 

 

@Lenlo, I don't understand how you can 'be wrong' on AJ like that? How can you mix up someone who did 'jack all' as someone who would provide info?

Cause when skimming I mixed someone up probably. Go talk to the people who made this a 100 pg D1 game if you want answers.

 

 

Wow.  Hate to say this about someone who defended me that well, but that ... that's really bad.  [unvote][v]Lenlo[/v].

 

Still find Hally scummier - think I have her caught in an internal contradiction - but if that train isn't going to get support yet this is a close enough second.  would vastly prefer people move to hally though

[Kaylee]

OFFICIAL VOTE COUNT:

 

Sephander (3): John Snow, Wombicat, Lenlo

Kivam (5): Hallia, Nyce, Sephander, Sili, Laine

Lenlo (6): CorKey, Razen, AJ, Yates, ClovFG, Kivam

John Snow (2): Pral, Wish/Celeste

Hallia (1): Talya

 

 

Not Voting (3): Csarmi, Nolderf, Shad

 

With 20 alive, it takes 11 to lynch.

 

Deadline is Monday Aug 17th @ 9am MST/Noon EST

[Kivam]

 

 

Cool.

 

Town:

Razen

Hallia

Sili

Nyn

Bfg

Nol

AJ

 

[v]Zander[/v]

 

Not feeling the Kivam/Mish lynch atm.

Jon, what the hell was this about? I mean seriously, I appreciate the defense and all, but it would be more meaningful - and seem less like pocketing - if it was accompanied by something resembling content. Definitely in my WTL pile for today

I thought he was asked at the time to provide reasons. Therefore are you asking him again or are you fosing because he didnt follow up?

 

 

This thread is a monster and I know I've missed stuff while having to respond to all the fire coming my way, so I'm doing a full read through with realtime reactions.  So neither; it's my initial reaction to seeing that post.  If I come across an explanation later, I'll adjust accordingly; if he doesn't, then I'll FoS for lack of follow up (spoil it for me - did he follow up?). 

 

[WWWwombat]

 

Zeph lecturing Kivam was scummy because it's a stock town-seeming angle to take that doesn't actually do anything.  This was the stage of the game when people vote people for completely stupid reasons, so Zeph taking that angle isn't about trying to keep illogic out of the game thread imo so much as it is about trying to find something pro-town to say.

 

Shad and Cory were making me laugh.

 

Vote on Laine was a reaction test, as is pretty much everything I do super early in games.  Didn't get anything from Laine but Zander bit and called my vote a "bad look."  Not sure if he's trying to pocket Laine or if he's really that bad, but given everything he and Seph have done this game, they are my top scum read.

 

Figured you were just reaction testing me earlier but now that you've doubled down on "Wombat is scum cuz I don't like his OP lel" you can consider yourself FoSed.

Womby do you think Zander would have the same reaction as town OR mafia?

 

Gonna have to go back to 86 where I left off.. .

 

Locking in a D1 read early on D1 is objectively anti-town imo, so it is >rand mafia.

[Hallia]

Been out all weekend for birthday parties and niece time, catching up now.

[WWWwombat]

Re AJ's 1824.  I am null on Kiv.  I just think the arguments advanced against him are crap and his explanations are plausible.

[WWWwombat]

 

 

I also dont understand why Im getting flack for my read of Kiv's emo stuff when IM NOT the only one doing so??  if its something else please let me know.  ive also listed other reasons for my vote so im not getting it,

 

Also if I missed anything directed at me please let me know.

 You called a post AtE when it clearly wasn't.  When pressed on it, you gave some lame excuse about meaning to quote his previous posts.  An excuse I don't buy.  Furthermore, adding in Kiv's statement that his emo-fest was a gambit and that you still haven't let up on him for it as far as I can tell, this looks even more like you are ignoring some very pertinent details.  It's like you found an easy narrative for Kiv (that he's emo and therefore scum) and locked it in.  That doesn't look to me like the behavior of a townie trying to find scum.  That looks to me like the behavior of mafia trying to find a townie who is playing poorly and is therefore a lynch target.

 

I don't really buy this Womby. Zander is often known for his tunnelly vision and will push even if he's not using the right reasons or wording for it. I also don't think Zander has the experience as mafia to convincingly push a mislynch. He covered up his pushes in Belichick by tunneling one of our teammates the entire game, but I would reason to guess that outside of that he may have trouble pushing mislynches.

 

IIRC, I've played like one game with Zander.  I don't know his meta and, for the most part, I don't trust the meta assessments of others on him, because they tend to be wildly exaggerated generalizations gleaned from tiny samples.  As for convincingly pushing a lynch, mislynch or otherwise, I don't think Zander's convincingly pushing Kiv, so I don't see how that matters.

[WWWwombat]

Done for the night =\

[Kivam]

Done for the night =\

 

Ragnarok action, please

 

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

 

 

[Andrej]

Im not evaluating Kivam that way, because I dont think think Kivam would be a good lynch regardless of how many people hes interacted with. If we applied this logic to everything we would just lynch the biggest posters every time and thats stupid. Kivam/Mish acted in a way I expected them to, so what alot of you seem to have had problems with I didnt.

 

Not sure that I'm following you here. How can you apply the logic that me (or whoever you meant) and Zander make good lynches because we have a lot of interactions when Kivam, who has had the most, doesn't count?

 

What's the defining difference? 

 

@Lenlo, I don't understand how you can 'be wrong' on AJ like that? How can you mix up someone who did 'jack all' as someone who would provide info?

 

Maybe because he's making it up?

 

Im not a fan of John Snow either but completely agree on your assessment of his flip not being very helpful

 

Know what you do with players that won't give a lot of info by lynching them?

 

Peek them at Night. At least that way you confirm them one way or the other and don't waste a lynch if they happen to be a villager.

 

A few notes: Yes, I'm kind of new to Mafia, so if I do ask questions, I genuinely do want to know the answers to them.

I ask questions in order to formulate a detailed system/structure within my mind, and then I evaluate that system.

I'll post a possibilities post with my current thoughts of how this game/people are structured, looking at relationships between people (defined by voting patterns and buddying/pocketing) and what that means for their alignment.

 

That's an interesting way of going about things. If I had to guess, I would say you're an S type?

 

I would advise you that some information you get may be diluted, obviously.

 

Since - you know - there are a few players in this game with plenty of reason to lie.

 

I can almost see the info part making sense from someone that had just been talked about on thread. But that contradicts the gut part of his initial post/vote as well

 

It also doesn't make sense that he'd only apply it to a select few while ignoring the bigger catch when it comes to interaction analysis.

 

-snip-

 

I didnt say I found him scummy after the ISO. 

 

-snip-

 

Im not picking on him for his catchups themselves, I read them and thought them good. Its just the amount of them, not just from him but from other people as well, that I think hurt the overall thread.

 

Seems like you're talking out of a both sides of your mouth now. The verbiage you used doesn't sound positive, but you continue to dance around calling me scum.

 

Ftr: what exactly is your read on me?

 

I'm not sure how much value this really has, but at the moment I'm currently light town on Zander. The key thing that stood out to me in Belichick (after several ISO's) was how much difficulty he had reading people as mafia and how instead his inclination was to town read pretty much everyone (technically he had me as his bottom 2, but whenever I challenged him he'd move me to possible frustrated townie). This game from what I can recall, he's only really gone 'after' Kivam, but is treating several other people as possible suspects and more importantly isn't town reading the whole thread. I can't be confident in this assessment, given how rapidly he's improving and due to the large nature of the game, town reading everyone would stand out more here than there

 

This is what I was getting at earlier fwiw. You probably explained it better though

[csarmi]

Im in the process of catching up. Going back to page 8, because dm ate all my quotes ><

Use a notepad or word to create long posts.