House of Cards

[Kaylee]

 

 

Clovdyx, on 26 May 2015 - 1:31 PM, said:

 

Kaylee, on 26 May 2015 - 1:26 PM, said:

 

Clovdyx, on 26 May 2015 - 1:21 PM, said:

I will throw out Kaylee, Darthe, and Verb as town though. Probably could not be talked into lynching either of them D1, barring a massive slip. Right now, I'd be torn between Nyn and Leelou but without much confidence on either.

 

Any particular reason you picked them? They joked a lot but I haven't seen much else from them.

 

 

Leelou's response to Verbal's insinuating she might be mafia felt off to me. I would expect Leelou to want to interact with Verbal, and it seemed to be more closing communication than opening it.

 

I can't really place my finger on what stood out to me about Nyn. I've always felt I've had a pretty good grasp on her, but I just didn't really get town vibes from her.

 

 

Kaylee, on 26 May 2015 - 1:32 PM, said:

That makes a lot of sense actually.

 

Similar questioning and quick-agreeing pattern with the thing I found most scummy about Clov.

 

 

Which changes after this post by Nyn:

 

Nynaeve, on 26 May 2015 - 1:36 PM, said:

 

Clovdyx, on 26 May 2015 - 1:31 PM, said:

I can't really place my finger on what stood out to me about Nyn. I've always felt I've had a pretty good grasp on her, but I just didn't really get town vibes from her.

 

lol sure, okay

 

 

 

Kaylee, on 26 May 2015 - 1:37 PM, said:

 

Kaylee, on 26 May 2015 - 1:32 PM, said:

That makes a lot of sense actually.

 

I mean about Leelou.

 

 

Essentially I again agree with Kaylee here, but the later clarification and retrospective lack of questioning if she thinks the Nyn comment makes less sense stood out in comparison with her other posts.

 

 

No, wrong try again!

 

Bold: No, I asked him to clarify his reads. Plain and simple. I liked what he had to say about Leelou. I just forgot to add that to my orignal post so I made another one stating that's what I meant. I didn't agree with it just said it made sense. I didn't change my mind. I had Nyn as town as per my N0 peak.

 

Second bold: never said that. In fact that's why I clarified. Nice trying to twist what i'm saying and make stuff up.

 

I'm going to eat dinner now so won't be able to catch up atm. Will stop here for now m

[Clovdyx]

I was able to follow you until the last post, Kaylee.  Can you indicate where the quotes end and where your comments/responses start?  I assume it's "No, wrong try again!".

[Yates]

Votecount 1.3

 

Sooh: Darthe, Bewbs McGee, dicetosser1

Cass: Andrej, cory caboose

SongsTress: WWWwombat

dicetosser1: Clovdyx

 

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

 

Deadline:

[Andrej]

Hi everyone.

[Andrej]

I'm gonna just give a recap of my catch-up right now and then get the quotes I wanna address or whatever afterwards.

 

Nyn is literally the most obvtown player at this point in the game. Like it hurts a little reading her posts. I'm not 100% sold on Sooh yet but I like the way Nyn is handling the situation. She's being reasonable to other player's suggestions/opinions but maintaining her suspicion and now looking to make connections off it. May be a bit premature for that but I think the motive behind it is good.

 

Cory if you are a villager this game then I'm sorry for getting to you earlier. If you aren't then I'm not sorry but for now I'm gonna let it go and spread my vision elsewhere.

 

Clov I haven't given up on you being a villager yet. Unfortunately I also have to admit that I've never personally seen you wolfing and I am going to seek advice on the subject just in case. I don't disagree that Dice isn't vote worthy at this point.

 

Kaylee still looking good. I like how she is responding to Cass in her confusing posts before this. If you actually take the time to figure them out I think she answers and clarifies well. The only reason I peek her at this point is because I don't want others mislynching her later in the game after I'm dead.

 

Cass's Wombat ISO/re-read thing felt sort of random. Don't know what that means right now but it stood out to me as out-of-place I guess when I started reading forward from my last post.

 

That's all that readily comes to mind atm but I'm gonna respond to specific things I found reading along now.

[Andrej]

That's fine, it's just frustrating when I have someone getting @ me who I have a pretty solid village read on to the point where I am just helpless and can't fight back at them productively because lynching wolves and winning the game is more important to me than lynching people making poor reads

 

And maybe your reads beyond me are okay, I don't know yet, I don't even really know who you suspect outside of me/Wombat from that one latter post

 

And there's no way for me to combat "well cory is a really good wolf so let's make sure we suspect him for trying as a wolf" when I'm probably more well known for how hard I go as a villager to the point where the game is very real and stressful for me when I get significantly involved

 

It's also insulting because it brings out the POG underlying idea of "well if you stopped trying as a wolf you'd be easier to village read", which is an idea that hurts the game in general

 

Do you understand?

 

I do understand. Also fwiw I would never be suspect of you purely because I think you're a high level player, but as I'm sure you understand it comes with the territory. I have tried to articulate my concerns with you here to the best of my ability but I wouldn't call them more than just that.

 

That's actually an ideology on POG? That's kinda sad. I respect players way more when they are try-hard as any alignment - that's what makes the game fun and challenging.

[Kaylee]

 

 

Kaylee, on 26 May 2015 - 4:09 PM, said:

[sooh Quote Snipped cos too many quote blocks]

 

Kinda ironic. You call Nyn sheeping Darthe for adding on to his comment about you... yet you're the 3rd to comment on this post of her's.

 

I didn't really see this as ironic, or worth mentioning unless the motivation was to discredit Sooh's reply.

 

 

It was worth mentioning as she was being hypocritical to me.

[Kaylee]

Clovdyx, on 26 May 2015 - 1:31 PM, said:

 

Kaylee, on 26 May 2015 - 1:26 PM, said:

 

Clovdyx, on 26 May 2015 - 1:21 PM, said:

I will throw out Kaylee, Darthe, and Verb as town though. Probably could not be talked into lynching either of them D1, barring a massive slip. Right now, I'd be torn between Nyn and Leelou but without much confidence on either.

 

Any particular reason you picked them? They joked a lot but I haven't seen much else from them.

 

 

Leelou's response to Verbal's insinuating she might be mafia felt off to me. I would expect Leelou to want to interact with Verbal, and it seemed to be more closing communication than opening it.

 

I can't really place my finger on what stood out to me about Nyn. I've always felt I've had a pretty good grasp on her, but I just didn't really get town vibes from her.

 

 

Kaylee, on 26 May 2015 - 1:32 PM, said:

That makes a lot of sense actually.

 

Similar questioning and quick-agreeing pattern with the thing I found most scummy about Clov.

 

 

Which changes after this post by Nyn:

 

Nynaeve, on 26 May 2015 - 1:36 PM, said:

 

Clovdyx, on 26 May 2015 - 1:31 PM, said:

I can't really place my finger on what stood out to me about Nyn. I've always felt I've had a pretty good grasp on her, but I just didn't really get town vibes from her.

 

lol sure, okay

 

 

 

Kaylee, on 26 May 2015 - 1:37 PM, said:

 

Kaylee, on 26 May 2015 - 1:32 PM, said:

That makes a lot of sense actually.

 

I mean about Leelou.

 

 

Essentially I again agree with Kaylee here, but the later clarification and retrospective lack of questioning if she thinks the Nyn comment makes less sense stood out in comparison with her other posts.

 

 

No, wrong try again!

 

Bold: No, I asked him to clarify his reads. Plain and simple. I liked what he had to say about Leelou. I just forgot to add that to my orignal post so I made another one stating that's what I meant. I didn't agree with it just said it made sense. I didn't change my mind. I had Nyn as town as per my N0 peak.

 

Second bold: never said that. In fact that's why I clarified. Nice trying to twist what i'm saying and make stuff up.

 

I'm going to eat dinner now so won't be able to catch up atm. Will stop here for nowm

Ok put mine in blue

[Kaylee]

Kaylee, on 26 May 2015 - 4:09 PM, said:

[sooh Quote Snipped cos too many quote blocks]

 

Kinda ironic. You call Nyn sheeping Darthe for adding on to his comment about you... yet you're the 3rd to comment on this post of her's.

 

I didn't really see this as ironic, or worth mentioning unless the motivation was to discredit Sooh's reply.

 

 

It was worth mentioning as she was being hypocritical to me.

Again my reply in blue. Sorry on mobile but still trying to respond.

[Kaylee]

 

 

Kaylee, on 26 May 2015 - 4:12 PM, said:

[Darthe quote snipped cos too many quote blocks]

 

Actually three people said they liked it.

 

This felt pointless?

 

It wasn't pointless as he left someone out. If couldn't been on purpose. It was odd to me that he'd do that so I corrected him.

[Kaylee]

Kaylee, on 26 May 2015 - 4:12 PM, said:

[Darthe quote snipped cos too many quote blocks]

 

Actually three people said they liked it.

 

This felt pointless?

 

It wasn't pointless as he left someone out. If couldn't been on purpose. It was odd to me that he'd do that so I corrected him.

Quoted to end the tags.

[Kaylee]

Still not caught up but going to bed. Will catch up tomorrow. As of right now I'd vote Cass. Rather wait until I'm caught up to actually place my vote though.

[Andrej]

 

 

 

I just meant that I haven't seen you really provide anything that I would describe as helping me to read you since you came back in today. Yesterday I felt I was getting more from you... Could you give me some current leans, please?

 

Verb is my villager peek so that goes without saying. Going off thread I think Nyn is on her villager game and I think Clov is too. Darthe is more likely to be a villager here based solely on numbers despite my suspicion of him earlier. Kaylee seems okay, she's making her observations that are accurate in the moment. I'd probably peek her just to confirm her because I think she's likely to make it deep into the game on the merit of not getting NK'd often in this roster and clearing her would be valuable later on in POE.

 

Cass might be light green for the moment. I appreciate Cass expounding more on her thoughts to show her perspective which I don't think she'd do as well if she were wolfing again.

 

Dice had his 'gut read' opener which I think by now I should probably consider more of a neutral movement at this point in our experience together. I'll need more from him. Leelou can fit into this category as well because I haven't seen enough from her to really place her outside of null. Tress would be here as well until she comes back more with her own thoughts.

 

I'm undecided on you atm. You've said some things that came across weird to me but I think you've made some decent posts as well. The one you talked about people ignoring / defending you as suspect could offer some valuable insight later on if you're a villager here. I agreed with some of your points.

 

Cory and Wombat I have as hesitant wolf leans for now. I feel like the way Cory is engaging those who suspect him is more in-line with how I would do things as a wolf although I admit that could just be my own personal projection on his play. Wombat is more of hunch I guess. I don't think any of the observations he's made couldn't be done as a wolf and I think there's some potential for distancing between him and Cory happening. Cory's post about them colliding as Mario Kart characters or whatever gave me that impression.

 

 

 

 

Bump Cory and Wombat up a bunch, bump Cass down, and this is a perfect post.  

 

I haven't played with Wombat in a while and pretty sure I've never played against him as mafia, but I like the points he's brought up.  I think he plays relatively similarly to me.  Nothing seems completely off basis, so that's good enough for me for now.

 

Cory, I think you are completely off on.  Cory's always taken it...not personally, necessarily, but...as a challenge, I guess? when I've pushed him in the past.  One game that comes to mind was the Blood Bowl game we did okay in on WF.  I was town that game, he was essentially town (pro-town secondary village), and I made several paranoia pushes towards him late in the game.  It wasn't a huge OMGUS knee jerk, but there was definitely some - rather understandable, because he did play well - annoyance.  

 

I'd probably be willing to bump Cory up into my greens moving forward but Wombat wouldn't rise any higher than null. Cass is going to be a hard read for me one way or the other I think so her position isn't at all permanent. I feel like I'm likely to go back and forth on her until the very end. 

 

[v]Dice[/v]

 

I'm not going to fight a lynch on anyone of Cass/Sooh/Dice/Leelou/Tress today.  I would probably put Cass a half spot ahead of the rest of them, just because I liked the effort she gave in explaining her reads, and I think they make enough sense coming from her POV to not light them on fire.

 

You could say this is sort of where I'm at.

 

 

specifically dice read the thread (or at least most of it, since what he quoted was buried in the middle somewhere) and the only thing he had to say about it was the ONE reference made about him in the entire thing

that just doesn't sound like what town dice does to me

 

not at all

 

What stood out to me about Dice (besides just the complete lack of effort) is his ONLY thought worth sharing happened to be the most unanimously scumread player in the game.  That's about the safest place you could park a vote to avoid contributing.

 

I can agree with this.

[Andrej]

Was going to go swimming today but I figure I'll just fill out the rest of my notepad instead and hang around with you fine folks

 

You are all a detriment to my health and physique

 

I doubt this seeing your new sweet selfie that you made your profile picture

 

Darthe this is the turbo where Sooh was a wolf:

 

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/59/puzzles-other-games/villager-who-owns-you-fools-1534805/

 

LMK what you think

 

Oddly the one thing I noticed was her usage of ellipses. Not a tell by any means but I get similar vibes reading her posts from this game to the ones she made early on in this one. 

 

Through ~20 

 

Leelou*

Nynaeve/Hallia

Darthe

 

Andrej

 

Kaylee

 

Tress

Clov

Wombat

Verb

 

Dice

Cass

Sooh

 

I would guess there are 2 wolves in the bottom three and 1 wolf in the greys ATM or something of that sort

 

Bottom 3 I would say Cass/Dice are ~more likely than Sooh but that probably doesn't lift her out of null. In your gray I would say Tress/Wombat before Verb/Clov any day. That doesn't just have to do with my peek on Verb either.

 

Tell me about scum!Clov. I know you've said several times that he's a hard read but what are the tendencies you might pick up on?

 

My major issue with Sooh is that my heart really wants her to be a villager and I'm finding that harder to ignore

 

This might make no sense to ANYONE but I am going to be extremely disappointed if she's a wolf and this was her approach to "clearing herself" as a wolf - abusing guilt tactics and emotional manipulation. So I want to believe she's a villager so I don't have to deal with that disappointment.

 

But that wanting doesn't make her a villager, and that's where my heart is torn.

 

I took something Mish told me once to heart - "play a beautiful game", because there's no pride in winning a game dirty like that.

 

I got chu.

[Andrej]

Nyn's post had plenty of bite without being overly harsh and seemed like something town Nyn would post.  I wouldn't have pursued the angle she did on Sooh, but it strikes me as the kind of thing Nyn likes to explore.  As for my odd vibes on her, I can't really explain it yet because it was gut at the time and it hasn't been reinforced since.

 

As for Darthe, I don't know why you are assuming I had a town read on him or why that should preclude me questioning or disagreeing with him.  As of p. 2, Darthe was a town lean.  I saw his apparent desire to probe people and get the game moving as townish.  He later said some things I disagreed with or didn't quite get and I responded to them accordingly.  This is fairly normal as Darthe and I often look at things differently.  Right now, I would say Darthe is a mild town read.  I disagree with some of the things he's said, but many of them seem to be coming from a town mindset to me.

 

With respect to "unavoidably scummy," it's exactly what it says on the tin.  There was a time when Darthe would consistently look terrible no matter what role he had or what he did.  Sort of a corollary of Full Darthe I guess.

 

And if I disagree with a post enough, I'm going to make it known regardless of whether or not I think the author is town.  I've openly disagreed with mod-confirmed townies before.  Difference of opinion does not necessitate enmity.

 

I kind of want to dislike this post because I'm mildly suspicious of Wombat but I can't deny the fact it's a good response and potentially makes me think my read on Womby is incorrect and instead I should continue pursuing Cass without letting her off the hook so easily.

 

Still undecided.

[Cory Caboose]

I can't really describe scum Clov super well, he's from the same WIM wolf territory and he has good toan as a wolf and can do whatever

 

It pretty much boils down to "Town!Clov is a high-content, intelligent though idiosyncratic player who will adapt his reads, be vocal irt who he wants lynched, and reassess in important situations and struggles to figure out the game in a driven and competitive fashion"

 

and Scum!Clov is 80% of the above or a ~decent enough emulation of the above but the sustained interest and drive will not remain, though I'd imagine he's capable of making endgame plays and showing WIM in spurts to "finish a game off" as a wolf.

 

The important thing about Clov atm is that I am not going to support a lynch on him today

[Andrej]

I can't really describe scum Clov super well, he's from the same WIM wolf territory and he has good toan as a wolf and can do whatever

 

It pretty much boils down to "Town!Clov is a high-content, intelligent though idiosyncratic player who will adapt his reads, be vocal irt who he wants lynched, and reassess in important situations and struggles to figure out the game in a driven and competitive fashion"

 

and Scum!Clov is 80% of the above or a ~decent enough emulation of the above but the sustained interest and drive will not remain, though I'd imagine he's capable of making endgame plays and showing WIM in spurts to "finish a game off" as a wolf.

 

The important thing about Clov atm is that I am not going to support a lynch on him today

 

So basically I shouldn't even try unless it's F3?

 

Honestly I'm not sure I get to a point with where I am now that I would want to lynch him ever.

[Cory Caboose]

Reassess tomorrow

If he's a wolf, we lynch one of his wolfbros today instead of him

If he's a villager he's valuable and I think just off of soulreads I have him maybe a nudge closer to being a villager but it's enough where I think there are 4-5 better lynches today so sixth candidate no good

[Andrej]

Verb

 

Nyn

Clov

Kaylee

Cory

Darthe

 

Sooh

Tress

Dice

Wombat

Leelou

Cass

 

Would be willing to vote / lynch anyone in the gray at this time. Not the most rock solid reads yet but I should be able to flesh them out more once we get past a phase or two. 

[Andrej]

I think I'm comfortable lynching Cass actually. Thinking back to last game I don't think Leelou actually looks that bad at all for saying she would probably vote Cass at this time. I remember where being very suspicious of Cass for the majority of the game - attention just always shifted elsewhere for anything to really come of it.

 

Cass red flip looks good for Leelou here imo

[Songstress]

I really hope this isn't going to become a pattern - because I don't want it to be, I fully intended to play this game but the last couple of days has been very difficult.  We had a wretched day today with loads of family drama.  I finally just got time to read today's posts but my brain is mush and I don't even know what to say.

 

Hopefully tomorrow will be easier, we're not planning to go see my grandmother which should keep mom from having another meltdown, and there are a few errands that I need to be along for, but I think I'll have some uninterrupted time to re-read and put out some thoughts and reads...  I should make her buy some more wine while we're out grocery shopping.  We're all gonna need it.  

[Darthe]

I don't have a ton of reason to do so... In fact I probably have some reason to do the opposite but I am very likely to become difficult or abrasive about lynching Sooh over Cass today.  I still think there are good odds of Cass flipping villager and Sooh is, imo, 90-95% wolf.  

[Darthe]

I meant to say Cass over Sooh the first time I mention them above.  I'ma be pretty adamant about getting this Sooh lynch unless they do something to really change my mind.

[Cass]

Back and trying again. Internet repeat timed out/wouldn't let me post these replies this morning:

 

 

Cass: Since it was pointed out and you didn't address it allow me to repeat it...

How have I been pushy?

In case you missed it, answered this in reply to Clov here. Basic gist was tone, and on reflection this is probably more likely to be related to the way I read your posting style/game than your actual alignment.

 

 

 

 

**snip**

 

Didn't you recently tell me that you randed your first-time wolf in a Turbo?

 

Yeah. I didn't count that since it was a turbo. I didn't actually have to do much in terms of play style or thinking differently when playing that because it's so fast. But hey... if you feel that was a slip, then go for it. 

 

I need to read you more thoroughly first. It's potentially suspect, and I find it odd that you wouldn't have just mentioned the Turbo and explained it in your post but maybe not enough to vote you yet. I still don't see why you became a lynch target for your Aussie reads thing and I didn't like the quick and early votes on you for that when it and your initial explanation read as natural to me. On the other hand, you're sounding wolfier as you go along. I don't like the way you've edited everything out of the post I found you initially scummy for here, and I'm generally at odds with the direction/tone of your later responses.

 

For example, the rest of the stuff from the post above:

Hey guys! I'm catching up and on Page 14 atm. 

 

I came into this game very differently than I normally do. I have been playing more games and I'm feeling slightly more confident in giving pushes and nudges to get reactions. I get that you're not used to seeing that from me. That could be hard for anyone to get over that I'm playing so differently. However, if you imagine I'm a wolf, would I not do the most to keep posting the way I have been posting every game up until now? Keep my town game as it were? It would be incredibly stupid of me I think to change my game so much as a first time wolf. 

 

Regarding peeks. IF I was seer and choosing a N0 peek, or even just waiting for a random peek, would I post about it the way I did? If I am seer, will I put my peek directly out there or will I try to make it seem concealed? If I am seer, will I talk about this at all? 

 

 

Now Darthe, and keep in mind that I'm not fully up to speed since I haven't read all the pages yet. It looked to me in the beginning as though he was way too preoccupied with instructing people how to seer, and at the same time it seemed a bit like in the thread seer hunting. It stood out for me, and I'm waiting to read now if that's what AJ meant with his post early on. I also still have to go back to my previous games with Darthe and see if he had an early town read on me there. 

 

What exactly do you mean about your game opening being 'different' this time compared to others? Can you highlight specific differences? 

From the games I've played with you, I just don't/didn't see it. You making that a big deal and suggesting it's the reason people are reading you 'incorrectly' scummy here feels off. I don't recall people voting/pushing you for that in this game. I was more comfortable with your self-defence when you mentioned it was common for you to be called scummy in your early posts. Switching here feels like you're scrambling for any defence that may work since the initial one failed.

 

 

 

 

2. Ok, with the caveat of the above. What did you make of her disagreeing with Clov's initial weak push of you, but not really following it up?

 

Clov wasn't pushing me, in my book. He was just giving out preliminary feelz.

 

Kaylee asked Clov to clarify why he mentioned Lee and me specifically, since he didn't really say and she thought all our content up until then was dicking around. My impression was that she was trying to understand his line of thought. His suspicion of Lee he explained in relation to her interaction with Verbal, to which Kaylee agreed with. His suspicion of me was that I just wasn't giving him townie vibes yet. In any case she said she agreed with him on Lee. So I'm guessing she felt differently about me. Though, I don't really understand what you mean by not following up on it. Even if she disagreed with him... other than saying she disagrees with him what exactly would you expect her to do?

 

 

/Snip

 

I just think it's funny that you find me scary. 

 

 

Basically just question him more about it, the same way as she did with the other things she appeared to disagree with. When I was reading through it stood out to me that she had questioned/asked for more explanation on other things she seemed to disagree with, but then here, where she specified agreeing re Leelou and presumably therefore disagreed with the comment on you (a comment I found weak and possibly wolfy), she didn't ask for more, at all.

 

 

[Cass]

Stopping after page 11 but I would say it's very likely that Wombat/Verb/Cass/Sooh/Dice/Clov contains 2+ wolves

 

I will give you a better and more concise list later but right now those are the people I am most wary of

 

These sorts of posts/reads bother me Cory - how am I supposed to work out if your motivation for putting wolf suggestions out is more Town than Scum if you don't provide the reasons why/encourage more discussion?