A Tale of Middle Earth: Game OVER

[alannalynn]

When did people start using acronyms so much? I keep having to look things up, and that's sad.
 

Re: Thane
So far this game I haven't seen very much of him actually giving any reads or anything that implies that he's working on it to solve it. 
 
Re: Hallia
Also hasn't done a great deal this game in terms of giving reads, and I don't feel too fantastic about her. It seems her votes have been given on other people's cases without giving any reads or leans of her own. 
 
I can see why Yates would pick these two as fake peeks. 
 
I agree that Thane doesn't look too good for unvoting and voting Hallia here.
 
Can you all give me your opinions on Dice?
I think he looks horribly scummy so far this game...

1: I think Yates is as full of crap as a Christmas turkey
2: there is no way someone got a guilty on me, so IF he's tellin the truth

[unvote]
[v] Thane [/v]
Whether Yates is or is not lying, I am ok with this vote. Thane has literally done nothing and has clearly shown no remorse. I would take him over Verb any day.

Okay. This is irritating. Hallia, why? I feel like this was a scramble to cover your scum self. I mean, why else, believing that Yates is lying would you STILL fall in line and jump on Thane's vote? I mean, he's not been the best player this game thus far, but it feels like you were scrambling to prove your town-ness.
 
@Sooh: I'm leaning town on Dice, i haven't seen anything bad from him, but you seem rather convinced that he's scum, the way you keep bringing it back, just wondering if you're seeing something I'm not seeing. I'll go back and ISO just in case.

@Seph: why do you think that Dice is town?
 

 

Yates?
Are you town and trying to help town?

I'm Town. But I hate this Town. It's like Newark. I can only clean up so much trash on my own.

 I feel like you could be doing less sowing of confusion and blaming of town for offing Yates1.
 

Everyone on Thane's train bar Thane seems scummier to me than those on Verbs and Verb's been pinging.
 
[v]Verb[/v]

 Not entirely sure I like this vote, it came after Verb had already announced he was doing his gladiator thing, not that I'm condemning you for the vote, but the timing is weird, it's already past deadline anyways.
 

/snip/

 
I'm trying to see how this Gladiator role is so useful to town, Verb was worried about being lynched, both village and wolfie would be, but he chose someone who had sort of claimed/but may not have: Pizza. Verb was on a level with Thane to go to the noose, so he chooses Pizza, who he says was the most scummiest on his vote. Why not choose who you thought was scummiest full stop. If verb is Wolfie, then he may have done this to force Pizza to reveal as a Pr, it will allow the wolfies to know who Pizza is and do something about it, they may lose Verb eventually, but they know a PR and maybe a cop one. So it was a good way of Verb to out a cop or some such role. I don't know if Pizza has a role or not, I know he hasn't viewed me, because his peek is wrong, but that could be a smoke screen. I'm going to have to read up on both to have a better look, but I'm shattered tonight, so it will be tomorrow. I'm not sure how I view Verb (before this) I would go from town to wolfie and back. As for Pizza I didn't have a read on at all.  
 
/snip/

Soo what I'm getting is
1. Verb is mafia and doing this to get a PR outted in a 1:1 trade

 

We also have Verb is mafia and outing another mafia/scum role, Verb is town and trying to take down mafia, and Verb is town and wrong and Pizza is also town.

 

I agree with the bold, I'm not sure what you mean by the underlined portion?

 

Right now I'm good with voting for Verbal again, particularly on the usefulness of a JOAT to us. But, I've been back and forth all game on Pizza's alignment and there is still the potential that he's straight up lying. I'm going to spend my night going back to read over some things before placing a vote before deadline. I'm also pretty sure someone made a case from my ISO I need to go back and respond to that, now that my work week is over and I can properly take some notes.

[Hallia]

Why?

 

I'm pretty sure I listed my reason why.

 

Would you rather have had Thane over Verb?  

 

If so, I would love to know why.

[Gabriel Kross]

Why?

 

I'm pretty sure I listed my reason why.

 

Would you rather have had Thane over Verb?  

 

If so, I would love to know why.

because if you didn't believe Yates you would have left your vote where it initially was. It reads as you were caught red handed.

[Darthe]

Anyone want 24 hour days?  This feels slow.

[Gabriel Kross]

^ choose him to live is what I'm saying

what do you currently feel is the best course of action to take? Just vote you and keep Pizza around?

[Eldrick4221]

I'm not caught up. I'm only at pg108, but I'm gonna add my input now while I'm on break.

 

My case on verb was weak. It was a hodge podge of thoughts, that were defended and shot down well imo. I believe verb is town.

 

Problem is I don't think pizza is scum. I will ISO him tonight, but I feel like we are losing a townie either way today. The question is which one do we want to keep. I'm leaning verb, only because I'm familiar with how good of a player he is.

[Yates]

The question is which one do we want to keep. I'm leaning verb, only because I'm familiar with how good of a player he is.

That was the whole point of my earlier post. Pizza is also an excellent player. Mafia Champion and all. Better than me, for sure. And he has claimed an OP JOAT role.

 

What do you make of his claim?

[Darthe]

GLADIATOR BATTLE COUNT:

VERBAL (0/11):

PIZZA (1/11): Thane

 

NOT VOTING (20/20):

Hally, Sooh, Alot, Heart, Dice, Yates, Verbal, Talya, Eldrick, Leelou, Leelou, Krak, Taborline, Andrej, Alannalynn, Seph, EP, Tina, Cass, Pizza

 

VOTES ARE LOCKED

 

 

Still here I believe.  13 hours 20 minutes to deadline.

[alannalynn]

 

Why?

I'm pretty sure I listed my reason why.

Would you rather have had Thane over Verb?  

If so, I would love to know why.

because if you didn't believe Yates you would have left your vote where it initially was. It reads as you were caught red handed.

Quoting EP too because I agree. And as for your inquiry on Thane vs Verb, are you referring to before we only had two choices? I would have been okay with lynching either at the time, actually. Thane wasn't really contributing to the game and, if town, was being lazy about it. Although, a Verbal lynch would provide more information for us to go on as opposed to Thane.

 

I'm not caught up. I'm only at pg108, but I'm gonna add my input now while I'm on break.

 

My case on verb was weak. It was a hodge podge of thoughts, that were defended and shot down well imo. I believe verb is town.

 

Problem is I don't think pizza is scum. I will ISO him tonight, but I feel like we are losing a townie either way today. The question is which one do we want to keep. I'm leaning verb, only because I'm familiar with how good of a player he is.

Sorry, but wrong. If Pizza is telling the truth about his JOAT power, it doesn't matter about ability as a player, but the benefits we as town gain by having him on our side.

[alannalynn]

I'm also finally eating for the first time in 24 hours and that makes me happy.

[Cass]

Side note: I'm disappointed in Cass and Sooh. I expect more from them.

Cheap at me again. Bite me.

 

And good morning all, catching up.

[Cass]

Woah.

 

I need breakfast and ISOs and a stern talking with my paranoia. Off the cuff I know next to nothing about balance and I don't trust either of Verb or Pizza but right now I'm thinking given his experience Pizza's claim is probably equally likely to be true or false both balance and his suggested play style wise, and am leaning towards Pizza's motivation for revealing his claim being more about pushing for reasons/reactions than clearing himself over Verb.

 

Which is either inherently Towny for the info, regardless of Verb's alignment, or cleverly Scummy for the resultant potential Town cred, regardless of Verb's alignment.

 

On first skim Verb's explanation for picking Pizza feels weak. This is just gut and I need to look further here at possible motivations and who could have been his other options after his ISO.

 

I feel the same about Pizza on Verb.

Pizza - Why Verb?

[Cass]

Tl:Dr - I'm still leaning Verb

[seph]

Alanna I explained dice before. I know he has a low post count but when he made his entering post he mentored me in it. (Was my mentor last game)

It is a pretty strong gut feeling.

[alannalynn]

Figured I'd respond to a few things while I was going back over D2

/snip/

I read through all of Laine´s posts. The reason for that is that she was one of a few that I felt had posted a lot, but I never remembered her saying much. I was wrong. Up until recently I think she has played a good game. 

 

The thing I´m wondering about is this: She says that we shouldn´t rely on meta reads but focus on this game. At the same time she pointed out something that Seph had done in an earlier game (something like it´s normal from him to jump around mentally) and then she said Verb was acting like normal which was townie of him. After that she has voted Verbal. 

I just wanted to clarify on the second part: I think meta can be useful, but in conjunction with reading people in the game. I think it's lazy to say "oh well they're town/mafia because of 1, 2, and 3" but at the same time have things that are blatantly scummy happening and be in denial about it. As for Seph and Verbal, opinions can change throughout the game. I'm still not a fan of Verbal and how he's been playing, but that's how it is.

 

......Can I just vote Thane? 

This bothered me the first time I read it and it's bugging me again. Why do you need permission to vote in an either/or situation and why are you trusting Yates2.0 so much? He's not confirmed town and everything that comes out of his mouth is not truth. Frankly, a whole lot of what comes out of his mouth is complete bull....

 

Meh..I don't like any of the trains at the moment.

[v]Dice[/v]

I still don't understand why you jumped on a random person with... 21 minutes left to the day and nobody really following you on that Dice-vote front (except I think maybe Tina? mentioned she was willing to switch over). I think spreading votes at the end of day is a bad idea.

 

@Seph, Okay I'll go with it for now.

 

For the record, I don't trust Pizza, but I think in the event that he is telling the truth, we should not risk losing a power like his. My vote will be on Verbal in the morning when I check back in.

[alannalynn]

I lost the straw to my Capri Sun.

This gives me anxiety just thinking about it.

[Gabriel Kross]

Woah.

 

I need breakfast and ISOs and a stern talking with my paranoia. Off the cuff I know next to nothing about balance and I don't trust either of Verb or Pizza but right now I'm thinking given his experience Pizza's claim is probably equally likely to be true or false both balance and his suggested play style wise, and am leaning towards Pizza's motivation for revealing his claim being more about pushing for reasons/reactions than clearing himself over Verb.

 

Which is either inherently Towny for the info, regardless of Verb's alignment, or cleverly Scummy for the resultant potential Town cred, regardless of Verb's alignment.

 

On first skim Verb's explanation for picking Pizza feels weak. This is just gut and I need to look further here at possible motivations and who could have been his other options after his ISO.

 

I feel the same about Pizza on Verb.

Pizza - Why Verb?

ummmmm what? you posted a whole paragraph about how you don't have a single feel in one way or another.

[Gabriel Kross]

Also for the sake of protecting claimed JoAT role [v]Verb[/v] Unfortunately there was no real interaction or anything once the JoAT was claimed so this is really my only option here.

[Andrej]

I sort of feel at this point that the speculation regarding Verb or Pizza's alignment here is wolfy.

 

We are most likely losing a townie regardless of who gets lynched in the morning so I think those who continue to talk about the two slots as if they could be scum are putting up a front.

 

What it really comes down to is which we think can be more helpful to town in the long run. Even in the event that Pizza is lying here he won't last for long because his double actions should be able to produce results and quickly. Without those results the noose will be waiting, to say the least.

[Andrej]

That's my thought at least. I just got home from a lovely movie date and I will be climbing into bed now. I'll set an alarm so that I'm up before DL since it falls at 9am my time.

 

Goodnight

[Talya]

 

/snip/

I'm trying to see how this Gladiator role is so useful to town, Verb was worried about being lynched, both village and wolfie would be, but he chose someone who had sort of claimed/but may not have: Pizza. Verb was on a level with Thane to go to the noose, so he chooses Pizza, who he says was the most scummiest on his vote. Why not choose who you thought was scummiest full stop. If verb is Wolfie, then he may have done this to force Pizza to reveal as a Pr, it will allow the wolfies to know who Pizza is and do something about it, they may lose Verb eventually, but they know a PR and maybe a cop one. So it was a good way of Verb to out a cop or some such role. I don't know if Pizza has a role or not, I know he hasn't viewed me, because his peek is wrong, but that could be a smoke screen. I'm going to have to read up on both to have a better look, but I'm shattered tonight, so it will be tomorrow. I'm not sure how I view Verb (before this) I would go from town to wolfie and back. As for Pizza I didn't have a read on at all.

 

/snip/

Soo what I'm getting is

1. Verb is mafia and doing this to get a PR outted in a 1:1 trade

 

We also have Verb is mafia and outing another mafia/scum role, Verb is town and trying to take down mafia, and Verb is town and wrong and Pizza is also town.

 

I agree with the bold, I'm not sure what you mean by the underlined portion?

 

Right now I'm good with voting for Verbal again, particularly on the usefulness of a JOAT to us. But, I've been back and forth all game on Pizza's alignment and there is still the potential that he's straight up lying. I'm going to spend my night going back to read over some things before placing a vote before deadline. I'm also pretty sure someone made a case from my ISO I need to go back and respond to that, now that my work week is over and I can properly take some notes.

He had intimated he had a peek on me. I knew he couldn't have as he would have got town. It is now mute because he has said who had viewed.

 

I'm on phone and tried to snip this so not sure how it will go

[Askthepizzaguy]

Answering questions before diving in to this.

Ask me more questions. Every bit of information I would have wanted to keep schtum about is already on the table, so at this point it is better to respond to everything so it is on record.
 

Woah.

I need breakfast and ISOs and a stern talking with my paranoia. Off the cuff I know next to nothing about balance and I don't trust either of Verb or Pizza but right now I'm thinking given his experience Pizza's claim is probably equally likely to be true or false both balance and his suggested play style wise, and am leaning towards Pizza's motivation for revealing his claim being more about pushing for reasons/reactions than clearing himself over Verb.

Which is either inherently Towny for the info, regardless of Verb's alignment, or cleverly Scummy for the resultant potential Town cred, regardless of Verb's alignment.

On first skim Verb's explanation for picking Pizza feels weak. This is just gut and I need to look further here at possible motivations and who could have been his other options after his ISO.

I feel the same about Pizza on Verb.
Pizza - Why Verb?

I had a poor feeling in my gut about him, it will take me a while to address the timing of when that began, I will point you directly to the timeframe involved.

Keep in mind, with his claimed power being activated, my read on him as being a scumbag has lessened to the point of near nonexistence- if he is a scumbag, this is his big power?

It's not particularly useful, you use it when you've already got enough suspicion on you to be lynched.

Then you have to convince town a second time to lynch someone besides yourself.

Basically, it's worthless for a scumbag to have. Its sole use would be to force a village power to claim, and it's more useful just to kill the village power.

So, we have a villager in Verbal.

In answering your question about Verbal, I'm going to be pointing at things I viewed as scummy but now, I just really cannot.

If this is understood completely, I'll walk you through my thought process.

[Askthepizzaguy]

At this point I don't really know what to believe... Part of me thinks this another v/v situation which means it all sucks. We'll either way lose a power player tomorrow. I can see what Yates is saying when he says regardless their affiliation they can help out hunting the wolves on the other team. 

 

I've thought Verb was if not clear town then at least townish for a while, but this whole last part around EOD has confused me... and pizza... I literally don't know what to believe. I've read a few of his games, and he could literally pull this both as town and mafia... This is going to be a really really difficult vote to cast. 

 

Why couldn't you just all not follow me on Dice?

 

I'm not going to vote tonight. I need to sleep on it and ponder some more. And I really really have no idea where to put my vote right now. Will try to be more cohesive in my thoughts tomorrow...

Sooh, I hate to say this my dear, but this is the first time you've said anything this game which makes me suspect you.

 

Heh, calling the interaction between us villager on villager seems almost like TMI.

 

It doesn't matter, though. If your instincts are getting to that point or your mentor is coaching you well, I wouldn't consider it that unusual.

 

It pains me to even say I have shaken my villager read on you at all, sweetie. I understand your struggle to read me but stradling the fence is not how I'd expect villager Sooh to react here.

 

You know what I'm capable of. I think villager Sooh votes me almost every time.

 

So, to help me understand you, I'm going to ask you a solving question, sweetie.

 

Why are you not reading me solidly wolf right now? What is making you hold back? Surely it's not the claim itself, you know I could create any claim I want.

 

What is it?

 

 

[Askthepizzaguy]

Has anybody been really defensive yet?

 

This post seemed, at the time, like he was asking for a villager to make a bad case on another villager.

 

Kind of casting a line sort of behavior. Trying to see if the fish are biting.

 

Rather than say "hey, this person is being defensive" and push the case, Verbal here appeared to me to be asking for village mistakes he could reinforce.

 

 

 

Something about this rubs me the wrong way. It reads to me as 'caught wolf trying to backtrack'

 

[v]Pizza[/v]

I'm not sure which game you're reading. Suspicion on me is fine, suspicion in me that is contrived, not as much.

 

Unvote Seph

Vote Eldrick4221

 

 

Dude.....that is a creepy avatar.  I saw it on POG and cringed.  Well done.

 

 

Doesn't get involved in the Eldrick-Pizza duel. Just felt diplomatic and fluffy to me.

 

Also @Sili in a previous game I've had 2 mafia teamates take the opposite sides of a single conversation, it's called distancing. It wasn't something I was even considering could have been happening because I had no read on you at the time. However with how sure of himself Eld is and how you came to Pizza's defense, basing on my current read of you, I feel you set the whole thing up.

 

Town reads on:

Pizza

Zander

 

not town reads on:

Sili

Eld

Hallia

 

No freaking clue on:

Verbal. (GET READING!)

 

When the masonry was revealed, I noticed that there was a question about Verbal, and looking at it more closely led me to question him more.

 

The reason being, he's here and he's post-heavy, but is he (was he) solving?

 

I didn't see it.

 

Continued....

[Askthepizzaguy]

 

Also @Sili in a previous game I've had 2 mafia teamates take the opposite sides of a single conversation, it's called distancing. It wasn't something I was even considering could have been happening because I had no read on you at the time. However with how sure of himself Eld is and how you came to Pizza's defense, basing on my current read of you, I feel you set the whole thing up.

 

Town reads on:

Pizza

Zander

 

not town reads on:

Sili

Eld

Hallia

 

No freaking clue on:

Verbal. (GET READING!)

 

No.  Also, why am I the only one in the no clue category?  What about the other 8736483265 people in this game?

 

 

Verbal's flinchy reaction (it seemed) and the push on EP.

 

 

Early D1 from the hip town reads:

 

Sili & Leelou

 

Villagery process not demonstrated, reasons not given.

 

tempted to lynch EP today

 

Reasons not given.

 

Probably.  I'm considering.

 

I guess this means I need to ISO him.

 

Feels forced.

 

 

 

 

 

I guess this means I need to ISO him.

Please do, I'm on the train and all sorts of bad reception. I had him leaning on the townish side earlier.

 

 

It won't be right now - I'm about to leave work.  And there is no way I can do that on my phone.  Which means either later tonight if I'm online, or tomorrow at work.

 

best part is? I could stop whatever you're planning dead in it's tracks with one sentence. However I'm curious to see what this is.

 

 

Sometimes, soft claiming a PR is a good idea.

 

Sometimes, soft claiming a PR is a really, really bad idea.

 

I'm going to let you guess which one of those applies to this moment.

 

 

 

Felt like fishing for claims.

 

So, then I put Verbal as my peek or my gut read, for Day 2, at start of Day 2.